Fun and games in Florida...crazier than ever!

[Sancho]

This is all about proving who you think you are...

1.) One of my friends just went down to have her driver's license replaced because her's had a crack in it (not expired). She presented the old broken license, her passport, and birth certificate. They refused to replace her DL because she didn't have her SS card! No kidding! You need a DL now to vote, so the DMV has cracked down on getting licenses.

2.) My next door, retired neighbors are pissed off! He was a retired rocket scientist and she was a homemaker. He was born in Argentina but lived here all his life and has voted everywhere they lived (Boston, California, Florida). She was born in a farmhouse in Kansas during the depression. Both are on SS of course, so they had a SS card. Both couldn't register to vote, because neither have a "long form" birth certificate. Their daughter is an attorney, and she has carried them on three trips downtown (which is hard on them) and they still aren't registered to vote. His birth certificate isn't in English, and who knows what to do about that...and hers was some local church thing. No one seemed to be making "long forms" in Kansas or Argentina in the early 30's I guess.

3.) My wife and I managed to get "long form" birth certificates from our birth states (Carolina's) after paying some fees and waiting a few weeks, so we got registered to vote in two trips. We voted in a local election by mail and checked a website - neither of our votes counted! Apparently, we have to re-register so that our "signature" matches the exact name on the registration record according to the election supervisor. If you sign the mail in ballot with an initial or if a volunteer determines that your signature isn't correct in their opinion, you're doomed.

It seems clear that the entire process is to delay, confuse, and deny. It really doesn't matter if you have a history, records, or anything reasonable. Of course, some conspiracy theorists might think they only pick on registered Democrats, but I doubt that could be proved. At any rate, the 2014 election is gonna be a mess again if my neighborhood is typical.

[Heather MC]

1. Damn!

How do we start bending the rules in our Favor?

[sharp_stick]

3. Win the State elections

the only reasons the pukes are able to pull this shit is that they control not only the Governor position but have strong holds on the rest of State Government.

The only way to change this is to change them. Then we can roll back these rules and "fix" the gerrymandering.

[Heather MC]

5. Ok how do you get past the Gerrymandering to fix it?

this is round and round. uggh

[Sancho]

11. We need neutral election supervisors for a starter...

in Florida, that's the only control over all this mess.

[djean111]

2. I think their AIM is at poor registered Democrats because poor and minorities tend to be

registered Democrat and to not have all of the onerous documentation, the resources to get the documentation, or the time and money to make multiple trips to the DMV.

[NCTraveler]

4. These are necessary due to the Real ID Act of 2005.

It use to be much easier to get a DL in Florida beforehand. It became more difficult in all states afterwards.

[Sancho]

14. I guess there are a couple issues with this Real ID thing...

First is that some items they ask for are almost impossible to get. Usually old birth certificates can be hard to create if you were born prior to WWII. We have lots of retired folks who don't have an "address" on some kinds of mail because they live in a retirement complex and get their mail at a PO box or their old home or their kid's home.

They don't seem to have a process to grandfather in people who have lived, voted, driven cars, etc. for decades...so there are all sorts of historical records if you can't obtain some strange document.

All the problems can be solved if you have time, money, and sometimes an attorney. I'll bet that lots of people just give up.

The mail-in ballot signature is another new issue.

[NCTraveler]

15. You made it out to be about Florida. It is not about Florida.

It is Federal. If states do not follow the Real ID Act then the ID's from such states will not be recognized by the Federal Government. That is why all states abide by it.

[William769]

6. When was the last time it was renewed?

There are new laws in Florida that took effect I believe in 2011 on proving U.S. citizenship for a driver's license.

I have had a driver's license since 1978 and was up for renewal last year (I had lost by birth certificate and had to get a certified copy from Kentucky before I could renew my license). I also had to show my social security card and two letters that had my name & address on it for my home.

[NCTraveler]

7. These are necessary due to the Real ID Act of 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

[William769]

9. Thanks for the link.

[Sancho]

12. one funny thing...

when I went for a DL, I had my power bill, SS card, and passport. They wanted a second item with my name on it. I walked across the lobby to the tax office and had them print me a property tax bill with my name and address. I carried it back to the DMV windows as my second item of identification....

[RockaFowler]

8. I'm still confused on one thing here

We already have a Driver's License. So when it's time to get a new one I have to bring in all of this documentation that I originally brought in when I got the damn thing 25 years ago. Since my name is different now, they won't accept my birth certificate (I did get married). So this not only disenfranchises the elderly, poor and now women!! This whole thing is a big joke. My DL was not good before this I guess?? I've been driving for 25 years. They should have told me that I would have a hard time when I got older!

[NCTraveler]

10. It is Federally mandated. nt.

[Sancho]

13. new rules....

I'm sure you need a "state issued" long form birth certificate, a SS card, and several items with your name and address - like a Passport, bills to your house that prove "residency", etc.

It's nuts...and I've been driving with a license 45 years! I've been voting in Florida for more than 20 years.

I got my first Passport with a hospital issued "short form" birth certificate. Passports are good, because they usually always count as one item of identification.

DL's from out of state (or international DL's), student or employer ID's are NOT usually accepted!!

Gun permits are usually accepted!!

[Sancho]

16. You'll probably need a marriage license...

if your name changes, that causes another problem.

I also heard that some older widowed folks no longer had a marriage license, so they couldn't prove their name change (back in 1949 or whatever).

[csziggy]

20. If you changed your name you have to have proof of that change

So if you took your husband's last name, you have to have a certified copy of your marriage certificate. If you've been married more than once and the marriage certificate for your current marriage (or last name) has a different name than on your birth certificate, you have to prove marriage, then divorce or death for each change.

It's a PITA for many women and makes me really, really happy that I went through the PITA to retain my birth name when I got married 36 years ago - and it was a PITA to NOT change my name even that recently!

[RockaFowler]

23. I love you acronym - PITA

Best ever!!

[madfloridian]

17. Women married and/or divorced must provide a paper trail from birth name to now.

Start now by getting certified copies from Vital Statistics, such as marriage licenses, certified dissolution of marriage, etc. including death certificates if applicable.

It takes time. Here's a site to help you figure what you need.

http://www.gathergoget.com/checklist/default.aspx

[hedgehog]

18. I think these stories should go to the local US Attorney's office as

evidence of voter suppression.

[csziggy]

19. When I renewed my FL DL I was almost refused because of my old SS card

I had THREE versions of my birth certificate, all the other documentation, and my original SS card. The 20-something clerk had never seen a SS card like mine and told me she "didn't think it was real." It's the only SS card I've ever had - other than the other copy on the original form my parents got when I was a kid. I raised a stink and a supervisor came over and told the little twerp clerk that it was a legitimate SS card - and pointed the little idiot to the page they have with pictures of every version of SS card ever made.

By the way, the "long form" thing is ridiculous. The most recent birth certificate I had is on the exact same form that President Obama's widely circulated Hawaiian birth certificate is on. It is the ONLY form Florida uses to release certified birth certificates now. I got that copy since I was not sure where my old birth certificates were filed. My older birth certificate from the 60s is on a form that doesn't give any more information that the current version. Your rocket scientist friend should contact the ACLU.

The page with the requirements for proof of ID for Florida Driver's Licenses is: http://www.dmvflorida.org/drivers-license-identification.shtml

[Sancho]

21. I think you are right about the "long form"...

my wife and I had hospital birth certificates from the 50's. Apparently, all that NC and SC did was to transport the exact same information from old records and fill in the new forms.

There's no way that there was any new information about our births 20 years later when the state governments put everything on a common database.

If you have the original, it's not acceptable, but if you have the state issued form generated decades later exactly from the original, then you're good to go!

Of course, there's a fee for everything.

[csziggy]

24. The hospital forms are not acceptable since they are not state certified documents

You have to have a form from the state (or in some cases the county, depending on how the state files stuff) in order for it to be official.

Here is the CDC site on where to write for vital records for all states:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w.htm

For Florida you can contact the Bureau of Vital Statistics or the county where the event was registered.

I have the hospital form (with my baby footprints), the 1960s birth certificate (printed in negative format from probably a microfiche), and the newer copy I got in 2010 or 11 when I had to renew. The only one the DL office wanted was the most recent - probably because the little twerp clerk had never seen a microfiche negative print before.

While getting a state ID in some states might be free (in Florida it costs $25 originally and to renew), the documents required to obtain the ID can get expensive. $9 for a birth certificate; for women, say the same amount for each marriage certificate (and divorce or death certificate) for each husband. It absolutely DOES work as a poll tax - something I thought had been eliminated decades ago!

[arthritisR_US]

22. This is so disgusting! What about getting in touch

with the NAACP and suing them? Or get in touch with Eric Holder ?

[gejohnston]

25. Can't they still get the non secure DL?

They should be able to. It isn't unique to Florida, it is a PATRIOT Act thing. When I went back to Wyoming, I had to do the same thing.
http://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they