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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRE: GG in correcting a fact you make my point. Obsession with GG is a distraction.
From the beginning of the NSA revelations I have consistently said that the emotion that is directed at Glenn Greenwald is a distraction.
He is basically acting in the same function the NYT did when they published the Pentagon Papers. If the Guardian didn't publish his material there would be a hundred other papers that would have.
It is not against the law to publish secret material and it quickly becomes a first amendment case. The only time I know where the US government tried to get an injunction before the fact was the Pentagon Papers and the Supreme Court was unanimous in that case.
As long as GG wasn't involved in actions to take the material out of a classified facility or status then he is acting like hundreds of others have.
Yesterday in a thread I linked to this NPR article that details the steps Snowden undertook with two reporters to get his material out. It shows how professional reporters vet their sources:
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/11/221359323/reporter-had-to-decide-if-snowden-leaks-were-the-real-thing
Since the beginning of June, Barton Gellman has been reporting on classified intelligence documents given to him by Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor. As a result of the Snowden leaks, Gellman and reporter Laura Poitras broke the story of the PRISM program, which mines data from nine U.S. Internet companies, including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google and Facebook.
Gellman, who has been writing for The Washington Post, also found that the NSA has broken privacy rules or overstepped its legal authority thousands of times each year since Congress expanded the agency's powers in 2008. He revealed that the U.S. has conducted cyber-operations against computer networks in foreign countries including Iran, Russia, China and North Korea and reported on the "black budget" used to fund secret programs in America's 16 spy agencies.
Somebody has gone off site and established a blog to denounce my "facts" because
NPR was referring to the famous June 5 story entitled, "NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily", authored by Mr. Greenwald.
In his heated DU exchanged, grantcart said that Snowden was in contact with others before he was in contact with Greenwald. But this is not the same as saying who broke a story.
Brandon Gellman and Laura Poitras published their first NSA-related story on June 7th, two days after Greenwald broke the story about the controversial dragnet metadata program.
So it turns out that GG did break some of the story and other reporters who had been in a lengthy period of cooperation with Snowden broke the PRISM story 2 days after GG made a more general revelation, I will concede the point without bothering to even link to Guardian because you are making my point for me:
1) GG is simply not that important in the story of the leaks. If he didn't publish the details others would, and in fact did. We know why Snowden picked Poitras (her documentaries) and Gellman (Poitras needed an expert). Why did he pick GG? I don't know and don't care, He just isn't that important an actor.
2) By going off site and starting a completely new blog to contest that GG was earlier than Poitras by 2 days you are making my other point: The obsession with GG is basically an emotional one. Some elevate him without giving consideration to his other political agendas and others are consumed with hatred because they think he was indispensable. He was neither villain or hero. If he didn't write the articles, others would and did have direct contact with Snowden. Whatever motives GG has beyond Snowden are not that relevant because he isn't that significant a political commentator.
djean111
(14,255 posts)It is pointless, but then again, they are playing amongst themselves on this, they have not really managed to distract anyone who cares about what is actually going on.
If nothing else, the attacks on GG and Snowden are almost a textbook case of shooting the messenger.
Not to mention "Look! There's a kitty!"
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Snowden is in a different category. He is an actor with an agenda which I believe goes to a larger issue than simply the NSA or privacy concerns but is part of the Paul attack on government. I could be wrong on that and don't spend time on it. Time will tell. He is just too similar to too many people who I have met who conceal their real Libertarian agenda. If I am wrong on that particular point the fact still remains that the Paul Revolution folks have tens of thousands of people who would have been happy to do anything possible to get a Libertarian in the Whitehouse. They make the Republicans look like pansies.
djean111
(14,255 posts)I just think to attack him instead of being appalled at what he has released is pointless at best.
Except, I guess, for those who are all okay with all of the things the NSA is doing, or something like that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)distract from the story. I do not care who released the info, but when I see lies being told I will respond, which is the only time those supposedly 'obsessed with 'supporting' GG even mention him. It's a nice trick. Those obsessed, or trying to make the story about GG are all over the place talking about GG and Snowden and his ballerina gf etc, then when someone corrects any lies they tell, they accuse those presenting facts of 'being obsessed with supporting him'.
The reason, just fyi, why anyone bothers to correct the many attacks on the messengers is because it is clear (and we know this for certain due to the revelations of HB Gary's proposals to smear GG for money, for the BOA) that there is a fierce attempt to silence messengers. So I will continue to defend the messengers from lies and distortions which has nothing to do with being 'obsessed with supporting GG'. Whether it is GG or any other journalist or whistle blower who is under attack.
When we have organizations like the BOA willing to pay for smear campaigns against people who are just bloggers, as GG was at the time, we have to wonder who else they are paying to smear in order to hide their own corruption.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Talk about the person yet not why we are talking about the person. I see very few people falling for that one anymore.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)The offsite blog?
He posted an OP here and admin zapped it in a NY micro second so I assume they have an objection to it.
The only significant point of the blog was that somebody went to a really big effort to specifically call me out off site by "proving" that GG had published something shortly before Poitras and Gellman. The heated exchange I was making in the earlier OP was that if GG hadn't published it somebody else would have. The argument against my point was that capitalist corporate media would never have let the story out if GG hadn't done all of the work. By making a slight correction on the dates involved they unwittingly have proved my larger point.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)offsite?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Investigative Reporters, and Whistle Blowers.
They are the Watch Dogs of our Democracy.