Dogs Are People, Too

[xchrom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/dogs-are-people-too.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



FOR the past two years, my colleagues and I have been training dogs to go in an M.R.I. scanner — completely awake and unrestrained. Our goal has been to determine how dogs’ brains work and, even more important, what they think of us humans.

Now, after training and scanning a dozen dogs, my one inescapable conclusion is this: dogs are people, too.

Because dogs can’t speak, scientists have relied on behavioral observations to infer what dogs are thinking. It is a tricky business. You can’t ask a dog why he does something. And you certainly can’t ask him how he feels. The prospect of ferreting out animal emotions scares many scientists. After all, animal research is big business. It has been easy to sidestep the difficult questions about animal sentience and emotions because they have been unanswerable.

Until now.

By looking directly at their brains and bypassing the constraints of behaviorism, M.R.I.’s can tell us about dogs’ internal states. M.R.I.’s are conducted in loud, confined spaces. People don’t like them, and you have to hold absolutely still during the procedure. Conventional veterinary practice says you have to anesthetize animals so they don’t move during a scan. But you can’t study brain function in an anesthetized animal. At least not anything interesting like perception or emotion.

[Brickbat]

1. Lots of conditionals in that article. Still interesting.

[Triana]

2. Several vets have told me that cats have the intelligence of a 7-year old child

I'd not be surprised to find out dogs are similarly intelligent. If that's true, then they are absolutely sentient beings with emotions and souls - and they should be treated with much more care and protection by humans and their laws.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Cats can't read or do simple arithmetic and can't be trained to.

I like cats and find them modestly intelligent, but I think it is impossible to make meaningful comparisons of intelligence in such broad terms and pointless to try.

[Scootaloo]

11. Use of technology is not a prerequisite for intelligence

Language and arithmatic are examples of technology. Granted they're so pervasive in human culture that we don't tend to think of them as such, but they are.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. It's not the use of technology, but the capabilities. Cat don't have it. Sorry. nt

[joeybee12]

42. Cats and other animals have been known to take cover before an earthquake...

They know when one is about to happen, and even our technoclogy can't predict that...they clearly are more developed than us in some ways.

[secondvariety]

21. Why would

a cat need to do arithmetic? Can't be trained might just mean they don't want to be trained.

[snagglepuss]

27. +10000000000000000

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. That's partly it. But cats can be trained. I trained all my cats to come when I whistle.

6 minutes: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvnal6_russian-cat-circus_animals

3:14, faster paced, the master: http://vimeo.com/53414262

[kestrel91316]

51. That certainly would explain my younger male cat's devilish brattiness, lol.

And he's smart as a whip. And like another smart male cat of mine, now gone, he LAUGHS.

[hunter]

3. People are animals. Dogs are animals.

Anyone who lives with dogs knows they have personalities.

To me the most interesting thing about dogs is that most of them are optimists.

It is also amazing to me that most dogs, when removed from horrible, horrible living situations, usually bounce back and are joyful. Humans don't seem so resilient.

[tabasco]

6. Dogs are creatures who love us and help us

I am a creature who loves and helps dogs.

[Enthusiast]

13. Excellent observation.

I share your sentiments about dogs.

[RebelOne]

14. Yes, totally agree. Have had many dogs and they are people,

at least they think they are.

[BrotherIvan]

4. Yup!

I'm surprised this is still a question. All animals have emotion and thought; they deserve our care and respect, even if we are raising them to eat.

[Faryn Balyncd]

5. interesting

[dougolat]

7. Their pack behavior leads them...

...to work (like dogs!) for the good of the group, even sacrifice themselves.

They transfer that devotion to us, but it is not always appreciated.

In that regard, most of them are better people than many of us.

[Flying Squirrel]

8. Hey, I'm all for canine personhood but

If they can't contribute to your campaign, what good does it do?

[Faygo Kid]

9. Dogs are the best people I have ever known

And they have never shut down the government, to my recollection.

[Fuddnik]

16. One of mine shuts down my laptop.

If he thinks it's time to go to the park, or let him outside, or just give him attention, he'll keep shutting it, and wait until I put it down.

[cui bono]

17. He's trained you.

When I was younger and was living with my parents and started working evenings, my dad would feed my dog dinner. He told me one day that he trained him to ask for his dinner by coming over and putting a paw on his knee, then my dad would get up and feed him. I told my dad, no, my dog had trained him to learn that putting his paw on my dad's knee meant he needed to get up and feed him right then. lol.

[JDPriestly]

15. If dogs are people, why do they bite people?

People (at least grown people) don't normally chase other people and bite them. I know someone who limps a bit and has been bitten three times. I saw one of those bites. The man was just walking down the street, and a dog jumped off a garage and bit this man.

I myself was bitten by a small dog. I had done nothing to the dog. Had never seen it before. It jumped out of a car when the owner opened the hatch, ran for me and bit my leg out of the blue as I walked down the street. I hadn't even noticed the dog. Hadn't had time to notice the dog.

Seems to me a lot of dogs have antisocial tendencies. Now that is something. Maybe the antisocial dogs should have MRIs and be given some sort of drugs to make them less prone to biting other people.

If dogs are people, are people dogs?

Just to clarify, I like dogs that do not bite me.

And I have never done anything to a dog to make it want to bite me.

[xchrom]

19. People beat the shit out of each other all time.

& for little to no reason.

[JDPriestly]

29. And we put them in jail. But generally, people do not bite other people.

[llmart]

32. Some actually do....

how about that boxer that bit off his opponent's ear? (Can't remember his name.)

Anyway, people do a whole lot worse to other people.

Anyone who has known and loved a dog or dogs doesn't have to have science tell them that dogs have feelings and emotions.

[joeybee12]

41. Mike Tyson...nt

[xchrom]

34. Sorry, you are either naive or obtuse. Nt

[mopinko]

37. i actually have a human bite scar on my wrist.

humans do bite each other in fights all the time.
you are just wrong.

[totodeinhere]

23. People don't need to chase you and bite you. They can and do just shoot you with a gun.

n/t

[hunter]

25. No doubt there are bad dogs and it's a good thing they can't use guns.

There are a few sociopathic dogs, just as there are sociopathic humans, but most problems arise from a bad home environment.

We have three rescue dogs. Two of them were in the shelter because they refused to behave like fashion accessories. These dogs are very happy in our house because we treat them like sentient beings.

There are people who shouldn't be dog owners, just as there are people who shouldn't be parents.

[tblue]

40. Doggie bit you because you frightened him

for whatever reason. He picked up something in you that he interpreted as a threat to himself or his family. Your look, your vibe, your size, your smell, or something else you aren't aware of, it appears, but something nonetheless set him off. There was a reason.

[JDPriestly]

46. No. My husband and I were going for a walk, happily greeting neighbors when the dog yipped,

jumped out of the back of a car and bit me. The dog was very young and may have wanted to play, but I certainly had not scared it. A bunch of children jumped out of the car after the dog. Maybe the poor dog had suffered on the way to the street where it bit me.

I would always think with you that something about the person who is bitten elicited the bite. But I don't think that is always true.

It's so important to train a dog. My friends who have dogs train them, and I adore their dogs. But that little pup was completely untrained. I suspect that the children were pretty wild too.

[Orrex]

52. How do you know that?

Whenver a dog-bite thread shows up on DU, defenders show up to insist that it isn't the dog's fault. Dog's are pure and noble and good, apparently, while any bad action on their part is the fault of ignorant or corrupt or evil humans.

Why is a dog's good behavior held up as proof of its inherent virtue, while a dog's bad behavior is taken as proof of human failure?


What is the basis for this statement of faith?

[madinmaryland]

18. Do let Rick Santorum know about that...

[baldguy]

20. And yet there are some people who are eager to see dogs abused, tortured & killed.

Too many people, really. Even people who post on DU.

They are perfectly happy to see dogs mistreated. Just as long as those dogs are Pit Bulls.

[MissDeeds]

22. Dogs are my favorite people

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. Mine too!

[IDemo]

35. There are 3 people at my feet as I type

[MissDeeds]

36. Beautiful kids

I love their scarves!

[LWolf]

24. Science takes steps to prove

what anyone who's ever had a dog already knows.

I'll extend their findings to other animals; I don't have extensive experience with very many species, but I can add cats and horses to the list.

[truebluegreen]

28. Not surprising to me, but gratifying that science is beginning to demonstrate

what many of us guardians have known since forever: that our wards are creatures of emotion too.

Case in point: 4 months ago we lost our Big Dog and pack leader Charlie to old age. Within 6 weeks, his faithful companion and formerly bomb-proof never-sick second-in-command Girlfriend darn near died of a broken heart: out of nowhere (her yearly exam was a week after he died and she was in perfect health) she developed a severe heart condition. Her blood pressure and heart rate were such that she could have had a stroke or heart attack at any moment. We were just lucky that we caught it because there was no outward sign...other than the depression and overwhelming grief.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

30. What it is is very high social IQ,

which you'd expect from a pack animal. All of us evolved to survive, using different strategies. Ours is super high general intelligence. Theirs is super high social IQ, which allows for more resources to be deployed to the rest of the body for body strength, agility, and speed. Not to mention sense of smell.
Our brain wants to take so much of our resources that we don't have much left over and so aren't very good at any of those things. But we complement each other very well.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. Our three dogs are members of our family with full rights.

Period. Full stop.

[Arugula Latte]

38. Dogs are people; people are people; and kitties are deities.

And I faithfully worship my feline friends every day.

[tblue]

39. No. They're better than people.

I believe they are God's angels.

[Blue_Tires]

47. Thank you...I was about to write the same damn thing

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TRUFAX

[Taverner]

50. Dogs are the only animal that engaged in a quid-pro-quo agreement with man

You will go hunt the food with that strange stick thingy.

I'll go find and get the food, if you share some.

And then you can use me as an electric blanket and you'll share that fire with me

[B Calm]

43. Labs are very intelligent, but my neighbors dog who chases cars

is not very bright. I still don't think canines are anywhere close to being human.

[xchrom]

44. The article is just trying to point out the

Similarity of our higher brain functions.

Dogs are not human, humans are not dogs.

But we are closer than people often give credit for.

[Beringia]

45. very good

Could be used to support the Nonhuman rights project



http://www.nonhumanrightsproject.org/

The Nonhuman Rights Project is the only organization working toward actual LEGAL rights for members of species other than our own. Our mission is to change the common law status of at least some nonhuman animals from mere “things,” which lack the capacity to possess any legal right, to “persons,” who possess such fundamental rights as bodily integrity and bodily liberty, and those other legal rights to which evolving standards of morality, scientific discovery, and human experience entitle them. Our first cases are being prepared for filing in 2013. Your support of this work is deeply appreciated.

[flamingdem]

48. This is why we need to stop dog fighting as a "sport"

It's horrifying!

[Taverner]

49. The biggest problem in determining animals' intelligence is comparing against us

Human intelligence is way different than Dog intelligence

A dog can sniff the sidewalk, and for him or her, it's like reading a book. The dog knows who was there, what they did, what they ate and what they drank. The dog might also be able to tell if the animal in question was afraid or not.

We smell the same sidewalk and all that goes on in our head is "Why am I smelling this sidewalk?"