Emergency Powers of the President?

[demsin06]

I take Speaker Boehner's words today as tantamount to a declaration of a constitutional crisis. The Republican Party is determined to wage a war of insurrection against the duly elected executive of the United States of America.

What powers does the President have to end this charade, call for new elections, and lock up the ringleaders of this cabal and their corporate Koch masters until they can be tried by a military tribunal?

....Breath......OK, now that I said that, I feel better! Even though I know were are not there yet, this is how I feel right now. I'm going go sip on some tea and hope for a better tomorrow. I hope cooler heads prevail, but make no mistake, there will be a reckoning for this.

[MineralMan]

1. The President's powers are few in regard to this.

He can issue Executive Orders, but they are limited in what they can do.

Congress is equal to the Executive Branch, and the President has virtually no authority over what it does. Powers are divided three ways, and that's intentional.

Constitutionally, the President's powers are quite limited. He can, and should, use all of the power he has, but he can't do things like arrest members of Congress, call for elections, or any such thing.

Constitutionally, he might be able to declare Congress to be in recess, although that's debatable. He could also use his power to issue a State of the Union message at any time, although Congress does not have to let him speak to them in Congress. Joe Biden has some powers, as President of the Senate, but the Senate's on Obama's side anyhow, and those powers are very limited, at least by tradition, although it's unclear exactly what the VP can actually do.

Bottom line is that the United States has a very rigid structure of government, designed to limit the ability of each branch to override the other.

It's being tested right now.

[Katashi_itto]

3. Patriot Act: Declare an "Economic Emergency"

[MineralMan]

9. Well, perhaps, but what he could do in that case

isn't so clear, really. I don't believe the Patriot Act would allow him to spend federal monies that weren't allocated.

It's important to understand laws clearly. Have a look, and I believe you'll see what I'm saying.

[Katashi_itto]

11. Or declare sedition. A admittedly long-shot of that happening,

but as for monies 14th amendment. And fight it out in court after the fact.

[MineralMan]

14. Nope. The Constitution clearly gives Congress members immunity for

actions taken while in session. I do not believe they can be charged with sedition. That is because the Constitution was written specifically to prevent the Executive from charging members of Congress with crimes for their actions in fulfilling the duties of their office.

I really recommend a close reading of the Constitution. It's always a worthwhile thing to do at any time. In this case, you're confused about Congressional immunity.

[Katashi_itto]

19. Incorrect. I suggest you actually read it. Instead of telling other people too.

The Speech or Debate Clause is a clause in the United States Constitution (Article I, Section 6, Clause 1) . The clause states that members of both Houses of Congress
...shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

They can be charged and arrested.

[MineralMan]

21. They cannot be charged with sedition for voting on a bill.

That will never happen. Treason is closely defined in the Constitution, so that's out. Breach of the peace isn't an appropriate charge. Sedition? No. They're voting in Congress. That's what they are there for. It would be impossible to charge them with sedition for that.

More's the pity, but that's the system. As long as members of congress are debating and voting, they are immune from arrest. Now, if a member shot another member in the chamber and killed him or her, then that would be a Felony that could be charged. But not debating and voting. Not a chance.

Sorry, but what you and I would like to see happen cannot.

[Katashi_itto]

22. Umm they are not voting, they are preventing a vote.

I would think that is gumming up the works.

[MineralMan]

23. Please. They are acting in Congress.

As much as I hate what they are doing, I see no legal means for preventing it. However, we can remove them from office next year. Before then, there will be a resolution of the current impasse, I have no doubt. At some point, the damage to the Republican Party will cause other Republicans to put an end to it. Watch.

Wishing for what cannot happen is a waste of time. Working to prevent a reoccurrance, though, is not a waste of time, and is what we, as voters can and should do.

GOTV 2014!

[Katashi_itto]

29. SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.
(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';
(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';
(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and
(4) by adding at the end the following:
`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
`(B) appear to be intended--
`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;or
`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.
(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;'.

[MineralMan]

30. Nice try, but it won't fly.

Truly.

[Katashi_itto]

31. If this goes into default all the cards are on the table.

[meow2u3]

25. "Privilege from arrest" clause means Congress can't be arrested on a civil charge

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art1frag20_user.html#art1_hd69

Privilege From Arrest

This clause is practically obsolete. It applies only to arrests in civil suits, which were still common in this country at the time the Constitution was adopted.376It does not apply to service of process in either civil377 or criminal cases.378Nor does it apply to arrest in any criminal case. The phrase “treason, felony or breach of the peace” is interpreted to withdraw all criminal offenses from the operation of the privilege.379

In other words, Congressmembers can still be arrested on criminal charges.

[MineralMan]

26. And when was one arrested for something done in Congress?

See if you can find one. I believe you won't.

[BlueCaliDem]

13. Bush's man, Paulson, in 2008 threatened military Martial Law using the economy as the excuse.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/12/628819/-Bush-threatened-Congress-with-Martial-Law

I have no doubt they would've seen it through if Bush-Cheney didn't get their TARP to bail out their buddies on Wall Street, impeachment threat be damned.

Republicans are closeted dictators in heart and soul.

[BlueCaliDem]

7. I believe Congress is *the* most powerful branch of our government.

The President cannot impeach and/or remove any member of Congress. Congress *can* impeach and vote to remove a sitting president.

The President cannot override Congress and raise the debt ceiling or open the government when it's shutdown. Congress can ignore the president, raise the debt (or not), and open the government (or not).

The President cannot launch war and fund it without Congress' approval. Congress has that sole power.

These, and the words: "A government of the people, by the people, for the people", are just a few examples that it's clear that the Legislative, not the Executive, is the most powerful branch of the U.S. Government.

[MineralMan]

10. You make a good point.

The Founders were very concerned with a too powerful Executive. That guided them in creating our system. We have a weak Executive, by design. It can create problem in certain circumstances.

[BlueCaliDem]

20. Yes, we have a weak Executive by design, which opened the door for the Koch Bros

and other robber barons to come in and usurp the powers of the Executive through their bought-and-paid-for-loyal lackeys. They, unlike the majority of Americans, knew that the power of our government (the only entity that could defeat them) lies in Congress. That's why they had their media propagate that "the president is the most powerful person in our government". It's a lie.

I know you won't agree with me on this, Mineral Man, because you're much too sober to, but I'm beginning to believe that through decades of careful planning, buying up news media and demolishing out Fourth Estate, gerrymandering districts, stealing the most influential and important elections (census year elections are vital for complete takeover), and finding clever ways to push Citizens United through our bought-and-paid-for SCOTUS, our President has been rendered null and void, and the Koch Bros and their uber-wealthy pals now run our government.

I hope, deeply hope, I am wrong about this.

[oldhippie]

15. Not exactly .....

"Congress can ignore the president, raise the debt (or not), and open the government (or not)."

Not really. Congress (both houses) can pass a bill to raise the debt ceiling or open the government, but it doesn't happen (the bill become law) unless and until the President signs it.

[PoliticAverse]

27. Congress can pass bills without the President's signature, they just need a 2/3's majority. n/t

[LAGC]

2. Let's see...

In your other thread, you were suggesting attaching conditions to any Continuing Resolution to muddy the waters... conditions that would make the Democrats look unreasonable, when its really the Repukes who are trying to attach the poison pill.

Now you're suggesting (tongue-in-cheek of course) that Republicans be rounded up and tried by military tribunals?

"Dems in '06" and only 27 posts since 2006?

Enjoy your stay.

[demsin06]

8. oh please

I'm a casual poster who enjoys the debate and strong opinions. Please chill.

[Posteritatis]

4. Do we have a rolled-up US Constitution someplace we can smack OPs like this with? Geez. (nt)

[demsin06]

6. dont reply if you get so annoyed

Oh calm down I'm a casual poster.

[oldhippie]

16. Yeah, we're the ones that need to calm down ......

... really? Military tribunals? Really?

I suggest maybe you need to be more casual.

[demsin06]

5. Well there is 18 USC § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

This section has a lot of meat in it, and I would think if the SHTF, he could call a recess under his emergency powers. The PATRIOT ACT could be used as well if he wanted to go after the ringleaders as economic Terrorists.

Of course, its just speculation. If there is any violence in DC, or if the default causes massive losses in the global market, hold on to your butts.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

28. Get a grip.

First of all, only the respective houses can call themselves in recess.

Second, every party believes their economic policies are best and the other guy's policies are deleterious.

Third, there is already a mechanism for dealing with troublesome politicians; its called "an election."

[Nye Bevan]

12. So push for some kind of Enabling Act and imprison anyone who opposes him.

Okayyyyyyy.....

[tritsofme]

17. What kind of authoritarian nonsense is this?

This is a scary impulse, wherever it appears on the political spectrum. The president is not a dictator.

[PragmaticLiberal]

18. There's a part of me that would like to see Obama go all "Chancellor Palpatine" on their asses.

But that wouldn't be very democratic....

[Kablooie]

24. Take heart in that Boehner lies. This is likely just another and he'll flip at the last moment.

As long as Obama doesn't flip first.