Gun Nut Nation erupts again

[MrScorpio]

Apparently, this country is never going to summon the will and wherewithal to deal with this problem.

Guns and violence are just as American as Cherry pie, paraphrasing H. Rap Brown here.

[flamingdem]

1. Are we obliged to hear about every incident?

It seems like the networks and cable feel they have to drop everything just in case they miss the story.

I think this increases the incidents of copycats.

[Walk away]

3. I wish you had stuck a...

in your post.

[Mojorabbit]

36. There was a great piece posted

that stated just this. Televising it and making a fuss over the perp is the worst thing the media can do. It brings out people who desire the same out of the woodwork.
Let me see if I can find. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/07/how-media-shouldnt-cover-mass-murder
exerpt:
If you don't want to propagate more mass murders...

Don't start the story with sirens blaring.

Don't have photographs of the killer.

Don't make this 24/7 coverage.

Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story.

Not to make the killer some kind of anti-hero.

Do localise this story to the affected community and as boring as possible in every other market.

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. While we ignore the vastly more common "ordinary" murders.

Those aren't news...they mostly happen to "those people."

[kardonb]

22. gun nuts

why do you think these crazies do it ? BECAUSE the media just gobbles this crap up , it fills the pages and airwaves . AND the ;perpetrator gets "famous " .

[Suburban Warrior]

2. An active shooter in a large shopping mall is news.

[pinboy3niner]

4. And our veterans returning from combat abroad are coming home to this

And going

[giftedgirl77]

5. That was my thought. At least downrange it

was normal for me to tell a young Soldier to stand on the other side of a concrete barrier to avoid the sniper fire while we were waiting for our ride. I don't want to raise my kids that way too.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Why are they so confused? What's the difference between invading the wrong country...

and gunning down a bunch of innocent people, or at the very least endorsing and working to build up such a system of killings, and going to the local mall and gunning down a bunch of innocent people?

[pinboy3niner]

12. How to deal with such a clueless response?

U.S. troops in combat abroad are facing armed opponents, primarily. Regardless of the politics, that is their reality.

And you're comparing that to a mass killer or would-be mass killer in a mall? Major fail.

[Gravitycollapse]

16. The last 50 or so years of the US Armed Forces is basically one gigantic mass shooting...

Using variously sized weaponry ranging from small arms to MOABs. The only difference really being that it was and continues to be for economic and political gain as opposed to the insane delusion of one psychotic individual. Oh yeah, and we kill other civilian populations as opposed to our own.

I say again, veterans returning from illegitimate wars and occupations should not be the least bit surprised that similar acts of militancy are now taking place on our own soil.

[pinboy3niner]

18. Connecting your historic argument to homeland gun violence is ludicrous. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

19. When jingoism becomes an important aspect of national identity...

the violence will find its way to our shores. It will find its way into our local communities. It will find its way into our lives one way or another.

Most of these spree killers demonstrate the same tactics and weaponry as our own armed forces. You think that's a coincidence? Think again.

[pinboy3niner]

20. Jingoism won't suffice to explain gun violence here

And your jaundiced view of the actions of U.S. trooops in combat won't serve you well in trying to make your argument. There are vets here who have actually served in combat, who know better.

[Gravitycollapse]

24. Well, obviously jingoism alone is not the only variable. But it's certainly an important one.

Without it, we would not have an entire subfield of tactical weaponry. We likely wouldn't have such a common disregard for human life.

I'd be terribly interested in learning what wars these members fought in. Although I must warn them that very few conflicts involving the US Armed Forces in the 20th or 21st century were or are justified.

[pinboy3niner]

35. Warn them about why they were sent to war? ROFL!

I'll guarantee you that they have given a lot more thought to that than you have. They also have a much better understanding of why they did what they did when facing armed conmbatants.

[RZM]

23. The same argument was made in Bowling for Columbine

That violence such as the bombing campaign in Bosnia was connected to gun violence here.

I agree it's nonsense, but it's not an unheard of argument.

[Gravitycollapse]

25. Why exactly is it nonsense?

What do we teach our children when we invade unsuspecting countries, bomb their infrastructure to pieces and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people?

You don't think that has negative consequences on the psyches of the young and impressionable?

[RZM]

28. I don't think it's here or there for most people

Maybe a small effect. But I don't think your average nutjob or gangbanger gives Iraq much thought when pulling the trigger.

[Gravitycollapse]

29. I bet it feels good to call them gangbangers and nut jobs. Helps distance the rest of us from them.

It helps us erase the uncomfortable connections between our prolific world-wide military violence and our home grown military-like violence.

We have armies, be them gangs or police departments, and rogues, people suffering psychotic episodes or otherwise, on our own soil and they are every bit as tactical and grisly as our own armed forces.

You think that's coincidence? You think surrounding youth with violence, state sanctioned or otherwise, doesn't fuck with their heads?

Explosives, tactical vests, guerrilla tactics, assault weapons. All sourced from the military and blown up to unimaginable proportions in the media and in movies and television shows.

The United States is the biggest military state on the planet. You're deluded if you don't think our own issues with violence aren't connected to that fact.

[RZM]

32. But that's what they are

If you shoot up a mall, you're a nut. If you pop a cap in someone because you don't get along with their crew, you're a banger.

It's not complicated.

I see the point you are making, I just don't buy it. By that logic the late 40s and 50s should have been chock full of gunplay with the examples set by the violence done in WWII and Korea.

[Gravitycollapse]

33. You realize there were spree killers in the 40s and 50s, right?

There were gangs and police departments ripe with corruption and violence, too.

Although one must also address the reality that an entire subcategory of tactical weaponry was not available to the general public 60 years ago. The proliferation of military style weaponry along with the explosion of the corporate military state is certainly not helping.

[Logical]

6. No one will ban guns. Not even a majority of Americans want guns....

Banned. And if people have possession of guns, some will be used to kill people!

[beachbum bob]

37. majority of americasn DO NOT support banning guns

the support banning certain type of guns/weapons and accessories. I have been a legal gun owning liberal for 40 yrs and the problem is not gun ownership....what we have been experiencing is non-stop crazy from the media enhancing a social breakdown. Anger is being fueled non-stop and too many people can not cope with it.

Other countries have citizens who own weapons and they do not have the level of violence we have. Address what is causing the violence if you want to see a reduction of violent acts.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Quick! Somebody find middle ground!

#%^*.

[Dragonfli]

9. The sensible solution is of course to try to cut killing sprees in half

Any misguided leftwingnut efforts to reduce them any more than that would be extreme and therefore cause more death. The answer is always in the middle of left/right right/wrong good/evil

It is an axiom that is plain as day to the sensible among us!

[vlakitti]

31. Thanks

Any sarcasm is better than no sarcasm.

[villager]

30. You mean that mis-labeled "middle ground" way over there on the right, Manny?

The one that conservatives and rightwingers use as a fig leaf for their political views?

[madinmaryland]

11. Context or at least a quick linkie???? TIA

[maddezmom]

13. Here

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/shots-fired-inside-garden-state-plaza-injuries-unclear-1.6379579

[pinboy3niner]

15. Beat me to it, maddezmom

Damn, you're good!

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. West gate mall and Paramus NJ

Had an active shooter, who is now gone.

[gopiscrap]

14. yup, we'll never learn.

[RZM]

21. Isn't H. Rap in the slammer for gun violence? n/t

[Deep13]

26. Aren't cherries of Middle Eastern origin? nt

[Skittles]

27. the NRA wants everyone armed and paranoid

[urbuddha]

34. if you kill one person you're a murderer,but if you kill many you're a conqueror.

It is all bad any way you look at it. The labels society pins on these
killings and the attention they receive don't help. We somehow have
to find a way to combat the NRA. You must have a license to drive a
car but you don't need one to buy a gun. This is just crazy. We are
letting the gun lobbyists ruin America.

[lonestarnot]

38. Nutters always have the spotlight too. Fucking nutters.