General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs there any limit to Mitt Romney’s dishonesty?
By Greg Sargent
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Heres a test case: The debate over Medicare and Romneys embrace of the Paul Ryan plan is about to dominate the conversation. Romney is moving to get ahead of the story by accusing Obama of being the one who would end Medicare as we know it. Heres the Romney campaigns statement this morning:
If President Obamas plan is to end Medicare as we know it, he should say so. If he has another plan, he should have the courage to put it forward.
The claim that Romney supports a solution favored by a bipartisan group of leaders is a reference to the plan authored by Ryan and Dem Senator Ron Wyden. The idea that this represents bipartisan suppport is laughable. But this type of claim is made on both sides, so put it aside.
More interesting is the assertion that Obama has cut $500 billion from Medicare and created an unaccountable board with rationing power even as the deficit is spiraling out of control. Thats a reference to Obamacares efforts to curb spending with $500 billion in savings that are actually wrung from health care providers, not Medicare beneficiaries. That unaccountable board, meanwhile, is a reference to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, which is designed to make recommendations for reducing Medicare costs, and explicitly cannot recommend rationing.
Get the trick here? The Romney campaign is accusing Obama of slashing Medicare, and hence ending Medicare as we know it, while simultaneously accusing him of failing to curb entitlement spending in ways that pose grave danger to the nations finances. This, even as Romney has endorsed a plan that would quasi-voucherize Medicare and end the program as we know it.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/is-there-any-limit-to-mitt-romneys-dishonesty/2012/03/12/gIQAIIwQ7R_blog.html
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)Well it looks that's become SOP for the party.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Hell no. Make that HELL NO!
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)"The lies would not stand if BO quit compromising and equivocating."
...it's Obama's fault that Romney lies?
Look, the facts are clear, they've been repeated ad nauseum. Americans do not want to end or privatize Medicare, and Americans aren't buying what Republicans are selling.
Kaiser poll: Obama trusted more on future of ACA, Medicare; 54 percent expand/keep ACA
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002367724
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"?
programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION" ?
...you could point to the "traction"?
Still, how the hell does that make Obama responsible for Mitt Romney tellling a lie? Seems like you're busy campaigning against the President instead of looking at the facts objectively.
I mean, Mitt Romney tells a lie, the OP article states what the facts are, and you're insisting that it's Obama's fault that Romney lied. Not only that, you're shouting demands to see a "CLEAR STATEMENT" from the President that: "Medicare and all Social programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"
Do you believe Romney's lie? The facts are in the OP. How exactly is the pledge you're demanding relevant to Romney's lie?
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)I am not "campaigning against" President Obama. I am not DEMANDING anything.
When you objectively look at my posts you will see that I have only pointed out ways President Obama could
easily defuse this lie.
The fact that; you project your reactions onto me and imply motives that I do not have;
suggests your real problems could be addressed better if you looked in a mirror.
.
"My statement was meant as a helpful criticism. As a way BO could counter the blatant LIES of the RW"
...insisting that it's Obama's fault that Romney lied?
OK!
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think we're going to have to realize that many people will interpret a thing in such as way as to best fit their own world-view, and any other possibilities of interpretation, no matter how valid they may be, will be either trivialized or minimized, so as not to upset those world-views.
It seems to be happening more and more, lately...
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)I am remained of the saying "With friends like these who needs enemies?"
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"U are correct Some people are so determined to fight that everything seems to them to be an attack "
...your stated claim that it's Obama's fault that Romney lies is not a matter of my perception. They're your words.
Own them.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)"Again Your words."
...they're your words.
In fact, my full response was:
Look, the facts are clear, they've been repeated ad nauseum. Americans do not want to end or privatize Medicare, and Americans aren't buying what Republicans are selling.
Kaiser poll: Obama trusted more on future of ACA, Medicare; 54 percent expand/keep ACA
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002367724
You responded:
programs will not be touched under MY ADMINISTRATION"?
So you ignored the facts in the OP, ignored evidence that the lies aren't gaining traction, and still insisted that "It is his fault if his lies have any traction."
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)lies, were the lies getting any traction?
Again my statement that "It is his fault if his lies have any traction".
You undertand the conditional aspect of that statement don't you?
You keep putting your words into my mouth and demand that I be responsible for your reactions.
Sorry I can not do that. The only thing I can control or be responsible for is MY action and reaction.
You undertand the conditional aspect of that statement don't you?
...I do: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=415906
And you still ignored the evidence that the lies were not gaining traction.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)how exactly? It seems to me that only thing gaining traction here is your inability to allow any comment
on President Obama's style.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)how exactly? It seems to me that only thing gaining traction here is your inability to allow any comment
on President Obama's style.
...you were just offering a way to combat the lies. First by stating:
...and following that with:
Again, what does the fact that Mitt Romney is lying about something that already occurred have to do with the President making the pledge you're demanding?
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)When is he going to start fighting back?
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)librechik
(30,676 posts)costs and work to lower them. Fuck Them!
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)"No bottom! No bottom with this line!"
Initech
(100,102 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I've never seen any scum Repuke have a governor on their lying skills.
savalez
(3,517 posts)We must get the word out on this.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I'm sure he won't lie if he doesn't think it will help him.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)This is the menace we will be dealing with come the G.E.
Thank you ProSense.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Johonny
(20,888 posts)the whole not taking Medicare on some type of economic principal is just smoke screen. He doesn't want to be contrast as another old Republican going against the young hip Obama.
If Ryan's plan had bipartisan support why isn't it sailing through the house and senate? Because it of course doesn't even have support of a lot of medicare receiving Republicans.
Irishonly
(3,344 posts)My question is and it is not a difficult one. Is there a republican that doesn't lie?