General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerica’s Retirement Crisis Grows as Cities Raid Pension and Health Plans
http://www.alternet.org/node/934912Across America, states, counties and cities are taking steps that will make retirement for ex-public employees much harsher. Courts, politicans and corporations are all working together to chip away at deferred wages: reducing pensions or eliminating promised healthcare, or both. Said simply, theyre looting retirements and pushing people toward poverty.
This is the course unfolding in federal bankruptcy court for the city of Detroit. It is what the Illinois Legislature passed last week in a giant pension reform bill that excluded the city of Chicago, whose red ink reckoning comes next year. Its whats before California cities that have filed for backruptcy, or are seeking voter approval to cut into retirement benefits, such as Stockton, San Bernadino, Riverside and even wealthy San Jose.
In these and other government jurisdictions, the foremost question is not why legions of elected officals have failed to provide for the employees who did their jobs and made the cities function. Instead, the question seems to be how much they can plunder earned and pledged benefits, so they can avoid raising taxes or cutting services.
News leaking out this week from the Motor City tells how the enormous gap between pensions workers earned and the money set aside to pay for them will be closed, wrote David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter. By stealing from workers.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)This is what happens when corporate power is allowed to grow out of control.
Corporate power will be reined in one way or another but unfortunately it will be after they are allowed to loot the nation. Thanks, irresponsible politicians.
rurallib
(62,444 posts)which I do not have time for right now.
contracts mean nothing anymore do they?
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)But now that they are retired they want current workers to pay additional taxes to cover it?
What am I missing here?
starroute
(12,977 posts)The very oldest Boomers are 67. The youngest are just 49.
So the greedy old geezers who don't want to pay for younger workers aren't the Boomers. The Boomers are the ones getting screwed.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)The Boomers are the ones retiring now, looking to collect pensions that were never adequately funded.
If I understanding the issue, they are only "getting screwed" in the sense that they want something that they never actually paid for. Boomers were the ones who voted repeatedly to cut their own taxes and put everything on the credit card. And while the government workers who were promised these pensions as part of their pay are undoubtedly in trouble, it seems more accurate to say that the screwing is already a done deal and they were accomplices in the scam.
In any event, I think an argument can be made that it is not the problem of young people today to correct this.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,846 posts)...paid for with funds essentially diverted from the pensions instead of being paid for by generating sufficient revenue (or alternatively by simply doing without those roads and schools and whatever).
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)So your argument is that the crumbling infrastructure entitles boomers to demand that young people fund the pensions they did not see any need to fund for themselves? I guess I am still missing the point.
The boomers voted to slash their taxes, they didn't WANT to pay for any of this stuff -- including the infrastructure you mentioned. They cut their own taxes to the bone and stuck everything they possibly could on their kid's and grandkid's shoulders. And now it seems that some are upset that the money didn't magically appear in their imaginary pension accounts, so they want to stick young people with the bill for that as well. Sorry, but I must be missing something because I just don't see how this is either reasonable OR younger people's problem.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,846 posts)...I think your contention that boomers as a group demanded their taxes be cut to the bone and everything dumped on their kids is utter, baseless bullshit. Most people understand that taxes are the dues we pay to live here and their biggest concern is not so much the amount they're paying but that it's not being wasted.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)More, the money that was collected was mismanaged. For example, the post you mention cites the issue with the Chicago teachers pension program. In a nutshell the program was apparently well funded until 18 years ago when the school district go hold of the money and used it to fund school operations (and probably some nice salaries for themselves). The money stopped going into the pension fund, and apparently everyone just shrugged and said screw it.
And that's okay. But if the people paying the money into the pension system didn't care about funding their own (extraordinarily nice) retirements, why should younger people be forced to pick up the tab?
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)of taxation rather than outright cuts, overall.
And your summary of what happened with the Chicago teachers' fund isn't really accurate.
For example: "The school district" did not make the decision. Mayor Daley first sought & got Mayoral control over district operations, then created a whole new position & filled it with his own appointee, Paul Vallas, who enacted Daley's will and has gone on to other districts to pull the same kind of wrecking/privatization operations.
For "everyone just shrugged" read -- "the average voter didn't know what was going on until the stocks began to tank years later".
You attribute to informed choice of the populace something that was anything but.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,846 posts)Judging by your first bunch of posts I think you're going to be a real asset to the site.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)being fed to the population. These issues aren't easy to keep up with, & a good percentage of the population doesn't have the education or the time to do so -- which is why it's so easy to steal from them. It's infuriating.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)El_Johns
(1,805 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Let's break it down.
1. "they are only "getting screwed" in the sense that they want something that they never actually paid for. "
I assume you are staying on topic with the OP, thus talking about company pension funds as opposed to Soc. Sec.
Those retirement plans were, and are, paid for by deductions from a worker's check. the worker pays a certain amount, the company pays a certain amount, each pay period.
Therefore, the workers DO pay for them.
the deductions are mandatory, the specific retirement plans were promised to earn a certain % over time.
and, in fact, my last retirement plan did exactly that, it earned exactly what it said it would, and I cashed it out.
2. Your statement: " Boomers were the ones who voted repeatedly to cut their own taxes and put everything on the credit card." cannot be proven without evidence, so is not valid.
Overall, however, since the "boomer" cohort is a 20 year range, the odds are that some in that group used credit wisely and some did not. and that some voted for taxes, depending on the purpose of the tax/bond issue, and some did not.
3. "the government workers who were promised these pensions as part of their pay are undoubtedly in trouble,"
is certainly the case,
but
4." they were accomplices in the scam." is blaming the victim.
Government workers had been paid their pensions for many years with no problems.
For example, fire and police employees are now often the 2nd or 3rd generation in the same job, and have watched their parents retire on the pensions promised.
Both of my brothers retired from police work and have their pensions, which are still paying out.
My mother retired on a city pension.
My retirement funds, if I had not cashed them out, would have been lost in 2008.
Up until 2000, when the dot com bust hit, retirement funds had been, overall, pretty reliable.
Now there is a meme going round, esp. noticable in libertarian circles, that employees, esp. boomers, are to blame for
trusting what they were told by their companies.
That is a 2 edged sword.
People in their 20's and 30's are finding they are getting screwed by an overpriced college education which generates little job but whopping lifetime debts.
Well, hell, when I went to college, it was affordable, grants were available, and I had no debt when I graduated.
guess the college kids today "are accomplices in the scam."
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)I think the question is fairness. Hopefully everyone accepts that seniors expect the pensions that they were promised, and everyone understands why they might be a bit upset if the money never materializes. But that's where it ends. They might expect that money, but if the money is no longer there (or was never there in the first place) they are not entitled to collect the money from young people today who had absolutely nothing to do with any of it.
Or, to be more precise, I am still waiting for someone to make this case. What did the boomer generation do that was so freaking awesome that they not only deserve to spend their own money, but their children and grandchildren's money as well? I think that's an entirely reasonable question.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)If my pension dies before I do, I have no expectation that anyone younger than me owes me anything.
OTOH, my darling spawn have never had any expectation of inheriting anything from me.
We seem to be a self sufficient lot, all told.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)are OK with that, since the money is "no longer there".
There's very little difference in what happened in a lot of these pension cases & my example.
It's theft.
One thing the boomers have done is overpay into Social Security for 30 years.
It really seems like you want to make this a generational issue. It's not, you know. Everything that's being done to boomers is also being done to all the generations after them. Boomers are just the leading edge of the immiseration of workers -- not only in the US, but all over the world, via neo-liberal policy.
Those who can't work (pensioners, disabled, the young) are ALWAYS supported out of current revenues, whether through pensions, social security, welfare, by their relatives, or by crime (when it comes to that).
Remove the social safety nets, you merely throw the burden directly on workers, their families, and civil society while removing it from the super-rich, corporations, etc.
What that means is mom & dad move in with the kids, or the kids have to kick them to the curb -- in which case society generally suffers from having elderly freezing to death in the streets, or mugging passers-by -- whatever they're capable of.
I really think you should reexamine your arguments.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)partially paid for, the employers never took near enough money from the employee, or kicked in enough, to full fund the benefits.
I can go to an AAA rated insurance company today, and buy a contract that will pay me $X for the rest of my life starting at age 65 -- guaranteed. The employer's / employees often only set aside 30-40% of that amount into their pension funds, and now expect the current generation of tax payers to make of their shortfall.
Finally, as a group those 65+ own most of the wealth in this country.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)the top 20% own vanishingly little wealth, most of it in the form of home equity.
It's not a generational issue. I'm really surprised at how many people here seem to want to make it one.
TBF
(32,086 posts)then you could be correct - because those 4 individuals control more wealth than 40% of the rest of the country.
More actual income inequality statistics to counter the republican talking points:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)An annuity.
A retirement annuity.
guarentted to pay 5% every year until I cashed it in.
could not touch it for at least 8 years.
I put in half of the monthly premium, matched by my employer.
401-K type of plan, everyone in the agency had to be in it.
Things went real well, till 2008.
The annuity was by AIG.
I cashed it out in early 2008, my 8 years had passed.
Many of my co-workers left theirs with AIG.
Some of them are still trying to get some money from their plan.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)And makes you sound like a Young Republican.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Possibly understand given your posts about boomers causing all the misery in the world today.
You are a one trick pony.
TBF
(32,086 posts)is controlled by 4 individuals - the WalMart heirs respectively.
That means the other 300,000,000 people have to live off the other half.
We need to immediately increase capital gains taxes to the rate of regular income, increase minimum wage substantially, and discontinue considering corporations people.
That is just a starting point.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Not with the same agency and at times municipal, state and federal. First with the Kentucky Air National Guard, Louisville Metro Corrections Department and Louisville Metro Police Department and currently as a Social worker. I did have to raid my retirement in 2007 to hire a lawyer during a custody battle following my resigning from LMPD tp focus on getting parental rights to my non-biological son. Since then I have been building my time up again and current events have me worried about the state of my retirement when the time comes.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)And "small cuts" in food stamps. While laid off workers in their 50's can no longer get hired except perhaps as a greeter at Walmart. Earni8ngs for American's in their 50's and early 60's are taking a major hit. Once those where peak earnings years. Now they are spent working weekends at McDonald's.
The silent ticking time bomb is the impact on future Social Security checks. They will be shrinking for those who collect for Social Security in coming years because the base pay that benefits will be calculated off of will be lower. So sure, cut pensions, who needs them anyway? Certainly not the wealthy.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Too bad. So sad.
And, as always, Goldman Sachs wins.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,846 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)They wanted lower taxes instead of paying for, for anything actually, which is why we are looking at trillions in unfunded liabilities and a twenty trillion dollar national debt.
It seems as if the main thing they are arguing for is that young people today, the kid's who's jobs they outsourced, the kids inheriting that debt and the crumbling infrastructure and the demolished safety net, these kids somehow owe them a retirement. I don't get it.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Others disagree. In any case, they are 'funded' by money that the city was forced to borrow just recently, which means that they were never actually funded by the workers or taxpayers while these pensioners were working. In other words, they are already sticking it to the future citizens of Detroit. Why should someone thirty years from now pay for this stuff? If Detroit city workers wanted retirement plans and benefits they should have insisted that the taxes be collected and put into some kind of trust fund.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)WERE collected, and WERE put into "some kind of trust fund".
And even in the cases where pensions ARE underfunded, it's not that "boomers" voted to reduce their taxes. It's that venal public officials used the money for other purposes without the consent of the employees. Or that investments were deliberately steered into risky assets in order to profit Wall Street.
In 1995 Illinois law placed the responsibility with the Chicago Public Schools to make sure that the CTPF was 90% funded by 2045. The pension fund was already close to 100% funded at the time. The only reason that the CTPF went from nearly 100% funded in 1995 to 58% funded now is because CPS took successive pension holidays and paid nothing for 10 years into the pension and asked for pension relief in April of 2010 in the amounts of $400 million per year until 2013.
The underfunding of the pension was not a result of excessive pension benefits or inadequate employee contributions teachers and paraprofessionals have dutifully paid our fair share for over 100 years. Between 1995-2005 CPS collected more than $2 billion in pension tax revenue and contributed zero to the pension fund.
http://www.ctunet.com/legislative/protect-our-pensions/questions-answers-about-the-chicago-teachers-pension-fund
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Into their school operating budgets. I suspect that this wasn't a secret at the time. Eighteen years ago the teachers and residents of Chicago were aware that they were funding their schools using the pension money. They didn't care at the time, or not enough to demand a change, so here we are now.
According to this link put out by CTPF The average Chicago teacher is collecting a 42K a year pension, probably some medical in there as well. That's a LOT of money and certainly nothing the teachers self-funded through a 9% contribution (unless Chicago teachers earn a half a million a year). Since the Chicago pension fund is apparently only half funded now, perhaps a simple solution is to reduce that average pension salary by half. Teachers would get their 20K a year, which is again a lot of money.
http://www.ctpf.org/current_news/MYTHBUSTERS.pdf
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2013, 05:42 PM - Edit history (3)
pushing school privatization measures everywhere he has worked. He was not chosen by the voters -- he was appointed by Mayor Daley.
On edit, I add that Vallas' position was specially created by Daley after he'd connived to get "mayoral control" of CPS, so Vallas was essentially the puppet hand under Daley's direction.
The position of CEO of the CPS was created by Mayor Richard M. Daley after he successfully convinced the Illinois State Legislature to place CPS under mayoral control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Vallas
The change in funding was not voted on -- not by the public or by the union members/employees affected -- it was a deal cut by officials.
Second, all the money diverted did NOT go back into the schools; some went into the general fund.
Third, the average pension is not the median pension: 42% of pensioners make less than $42K & 27% make less than $30K, according to your own link. And CPS pensions cover administrators, not just teachers. Also, recipients of CPS pensions DON'T GET SOCIAL SECURITY. So your "generous" $20K would be the sum total of pensioners' retirement benefits. Despite having contributed nearly 10% of their earnings into a "retirement fund" over the course of their careers.
What happened? In 1995, CPS was facing a projected 1999 deficit of $1.4 billion, plus the familiar problems of low scores and dropout rates. So Paul Vallas proposed a fix:
Vallas, who will submit his proposed $2.9 billion budget to the Chicago School Reform Board of Trustees Monday, said he trimmed $161.8 million by reducing 1,700 central office staffers and trades workers; eliminating waste from special education and other departments; and gutting an elaborate program designed to network the districts computers.
At the same time, he came up with $206.8 million in revenue by contributing less to the teachers pension fund; keeping some of the discretionary funds schools get for low-income students; putting 20 surplus properties up for sale; and shifting to the general fund monies that financed after-school programs at school fieldhouses.
Part of the deal was that property taxes that had been directed to pensions would instead go directly into school operations. Another part of the deal was that the General Assembly would make it a goal and intention each year to give the city teachers pension fund 20 percent to 30 percent of the amount allocated for the suburban/downstate teachers pension fund.
As Eric Zorn points out, the general assembly met its goal and intention exactly one year, 1995, when it contributed 23 percent. (They did manage to keep it in double digits up until 2000.) That was supposed to balance out the CPSs pension holiday, which lasted a decade, but it fell precipitously. Thats the blue line above.
CPS got a break on paying into the pension fund, and the state slacked off on it. But everything stayed cooli.e. the funding ratio stayed above 90 percentbecause of investment returns. Then the stock market cooled off and the ratio started falling....
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/June-2013/Chicago-Public-Schools-Pension-Bomb/
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Obviously this was a long time coming. There never should have been a pension holiday in the first place, and if the schools (or city) needed the money then they should have raised taxes or dealt with it some other way. But as I have said all along, that's not what happened. Everyone just kicked the can down the road, assuming (as usual) that they would just be able to stick young people with the bill.
In some areas that will probably work. It's certainly worked out that way at the national level.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)it was deliberate malfeasance/undermining by others.
What I find infuriating is that all this history is mostly ignored in current discussions & the discussion focuses on how 'rich' pensioners are, how 'boomers' voted themselves elaborate benefits & low taxes, etc.
The system was deliberately undermined, and the current slanted conversation is part of that whole strategy.
Vallas is an example of persons who clearly did the same thing everywhere they went -- and clearly got their marching orders from higher-ups.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Not to the pensioners, we all understand their claim, but to the young people stuck with the bill and damage. This is a debate that we are going to be having. There is a war going on in this country between the haves and the have-nots, and as things continue to crumble you will (I believe) begin to see more infighting between the have-nots over the scraps that remain and over responsibility for correcting the damage.
In this case, the divide in wealth and in damage caused falls along generational lines.
Young people, inheriting a nation of Walmart jobs, staggering debt, and third world opportunity, are not likely to be eager to hand over anything more to the generation that fucked everything up in the first place. Particularly not when you consider that the generation with both hands out is the one with (comparatively) all the wealth, plus benefits and opportunities that the following generations will never enjoy.
So this is a debate that we are going to be having so it's worth thinking about now.
Anyway, you have posted some very interesting information and I will spend some time reading over those links. But for now I need to wash some dishes.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)pension fund is over 90% funded. The money WAS put in the piggy bank.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130802/BUSINESS06/308020076/
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Although, it's questionable whether the 1.5B borrowing by the City in 2006 actually "funds" the pensions.
There is also $1B in excess non-pension disbursements (e.g. holiday bonuses to active workers) prior to 2008 that would be about $2 B now if it had been kept in the pension funds.
Detroit Spent Billions Extra on Pensions
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/undisclosed-payments-cost-detroit-pension-plan-billions
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)This is similar to the tactic used with social security, definining the shortfall over either a 75 year window or an infinite window. It produces big scary numbers with no referent.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)That is, over the lifetimes of the current retirees and workers.
That is why there is a significant difference if you use 7.5% or 8% as the expected return on funds invested.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)on board & continues after. The goal is the health of the fund as an entity, not just current payors & beneficiaries.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)One question is whether the fund can pay off all benefits accrued to existing retirees and employees if the underlying organization ceases to be a going concern.
Whether the pension is healthy on a continuing basis then also depends on the demographics of the retiree and worker base, anticipated hiring, firing, and departures, as well as how pensions are vested and how benefits are accrued. I'm afraid that this calculation can be gamed by assumptions regarding the growth of the workforce, and when an organization shrinks, stops hiring, and an aging workforce receives accelerating pension accruals, the pension fund can easily fall into default. It's even worse when a shrinking organization has obligated itself to retiree medical benefits.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)Screaming about how 'billions' were given away on the "13th check"
doesn't answer that question, and neither does pulling some big number out with no context.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)ANY TIME there is money "set aside" for workers " for a future time", it is always at risk. Unless you are putting your own money in an FDIC account at your own bank (and you stay within the legal limits), SOMEONE is after your "future" money.
In the past , it was usually some shady guys who ran the union pension fund, and who routinely "borrowed" from it, or it was some company owner who got into financial trouble and raided the pension funds...
With the mega-merging of the 80's (and continuing to current time), pension funds were often what made those companies look so "delicious".
Once upon a time, pension funds were considered a DEBT...not an asset. Romney & his ilk looked at them as a sweet dessert that could be used as assets to borrow against and then when they bankrupted the company and ended the pensions for workers, as money they used for their own "payments".. and on to the next victims.
Pensions for public workers were always vulnerable when new leadership ascended, and when federal money dried up. Municipalities/states that were unable to raise taxes, went "where the money was"....pensions..
The sad fact we all need to face, is that SS (and military pensions for some) will be all that MOST people will have to live on before very long.
Most people these days do not even have pensions. If you were 30-40 in the 80's & 90's you probably have no pension. The older people will not be with us for all that much longer (the ones with real pensions).. Once they (we) are gone, there will be mostly people with only 101-k's (deliberate downgrade) and whatever remains of SS.
There needs to be a real "old-age benefit that is just part of being a citizen. I am not averse to having it "means-tested" so that people who have vast assets are not included in it, but it should be at least enough for older people to be able to leave the workforce and keep themselves in decent health, have money for food, and a roof over their heads.
Pay people what they earn, and quit retaining part for a "pension" that is always ripe for pillaging, and often is not there when they need it..
xchrom
(108,903 posts)most pensions never ended badly -- of course you can't build a sexy, the sky is falling story from those.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)I can't wait until Los Angeles goes bankrupt and cuts it cushy ass pensions.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)do you wish the pox on the disabled as well?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Just. Wow.
TBF
(32,086 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)Key paragraphs:
Shrinking tax revenues during the recession are also responsible for service cuts in San Diego and San Jose, but pensions were an easy target. San Diego's payments to the city's retirement fund soared from $43 million in 1999 to $231.2 million this year, equal to 20 percent of the city's general fund budget, which pays for day-to-day operations.
As the pension payments grew, San Diego's 1.3 million residents saw roads deteriorate and libraries and recreation centers cut hours. For a while, some fire stations had to share engines and trucks. The city has cut its workforce 14 percent to 10,100 employees since Sanders took office in 2005.
San Jose's pension payments jumped from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million this year, equal to 27 percent of its general fund budget. Voters there approved construction bonds at the beginning of the last decade, but four new libraries and a police station have never opened because the city cannot afford to operate them. The city of 960,000 cut its workforce 27 percent to 5,400 over the last 10 years.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2013, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Under Republican Susan Golding the City started the practice of diverting money from the pension fund to increase the city budget.Elected city officials and their constituents cheered on the pension system's foray into the stock market, and during the good years, diverted the system's "surplus earnings" to pay for popular city initiatives, such as the ballpark, the convention center expansion, and for the cost of hosting the 1996 Republican national convention.
Now, at a time of "surplus declines," the city is on the hook to make up for the losses.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_pension_scandal
City employees paid into the fund in good faith. They are being robbed.
More:
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/metro/pension/pensiontimeline.html
TBF
(32,086 posts)talking points. I think we'd better talk about raising taxes in this country - particularly on our wealthiest individuals and corporations. When one family, the Waltons, controls more wealth than 40% of the rest of the population it is easy to see that individual workers' pensions are not the problem.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)benefits for the time they have put in at a company. Enron. But there is no bail out for the people. When its not your money, its easy to say oh well. but when I and others like me were sounding the bell on this particular practice I could hear all kinds of tricked out comments. There are those who are still naïve to think that it won't be them. Retired municipal employees from Detroit are getting a second hand lesson on republican economics. Because Wall Street crash gave them their first lesson. It says that ordinary working class folk don't deserve anything. And to all those who are losing your benefits I am sorry. But welcome to the party
indepat
(20,899 posts)coming decades as the mushrooming income inequality gets in high gear, all fostered by your friendly Federal government in which types like the oh-so Honorable Messrs. Cantor and Ryan seem determined to achieve.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Under Prop 13, that wealth does not necessarily wind up in city coffers. Most of the companies you associate with Silicon Valley (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.) are located outside city limits. It's a Bizarro World where San Jose serves as a bedroom community for its own suburbs. California cities make most of their money from businesses and sales tax, not residential property tax. Again, most of the high-dollar shopping areas are outside the city (in one case, directly across the street!)
Even so, Mayor Reed (D-Also Opposes Marriage Equality) had no business going over his own city council's heads and bringing Measure B to a compliant subset of voters on a low-turnout primary ballot. Worse still, now that he's termed out, he's planning to take his act statewide, instead of crawling back under his rock as I had hoped.
tblue37
(65,483 posts)Skittles
(153,182 posts)yup - they've already trashed the private sector - now they're coming after ALL public pensions