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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKrugman does a no-show on the TPP - Dean Baker rebutts, NC digs deeper.
Paul Krugman, apparently pushed by his readers, published a column about TPP - saying as far as he can tell, it's no big deal.
The answer is that Ive been having a hard time figuring out why this deal is especially important.
..
OK, I dont want to be too dismissive. But so far, I havent seen anything to justify the hype, positive or negative.
Dean Baker, notable for his excellent interview about the TPP on Bill Moyers' show, immediately took issue with Paul Krugman:
However it is a misunderstanding to see the TPP as being about trade. This is a deal that focuses on changes in regulatory structures to lock in pro-corporate rules. Using a "trade" agreement provides a mechanism to lock in rules that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to get through the normal political process.
It's kind of hard to understand how someone as savvy as Krugman can discuss the TPP and not mention the secrecy, the lobbyists on board, the leaked chapters, and the potential for abuse of the investor-state dispute settlement procedure. I think this should give people some serious pause before elevating Paul Krugman to an economic God, or even close.
Yes, that's criticism of a lefty (well, a self-avowed liberal) by a lefty (me, of the Crazy variety). Oh noes! Other people that dare go there are Naked Capitalism, whose post today digs much deeper into Krugman, by way of Steve Keen. A great read if you have the time. You'll note that NC is the blog of the woman in the linked Bill Moyers segment, Yves Smith.
Steve Keen is a non-classical economist. Classical economists all say that the banks themselves are not to be considered in economic modeling. Sounds weird? It does to me, and the NC post explains why. Steve Keen does model banking, and as it so happens he correctly predicted the crisis. He's also one that advocates a modern day debt jubilee. That may be why you hadn't heard of him.
I'm not saying Paul Krugman is bad bad bad. But if you're looking for analysis or solutions that dare question the system, consider alternative sources and ideas as well.
And don't forget: the TPP train is on the fast track.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)No. No he hasn't. He supported NAFTA, and he supports TPP, and the aftermath of those deals is not of particular concern to him.
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)he also supports protecting our labor and environmental standards.
There were safeguards in NAFTA to do that but they were left to the discretion of the President, and to me that is wrong.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Denial is a strong emotion!
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Arguably it worked but he downplayed the effects it would have on the American working class, which were enormous.
Is this good or bad? It's a tough discussion. Being of mind against borders and nationalities, I ideologically couldn't give a shit less if a Mexican got a job making Maytag washing machines when an American could be making one instead.
Yet, fuck Maytag, right?
Krugman was off by an order of magnitude of the economic impact NAFTA would have. Was he wrong for supporting the political position? I can't say no. But he was definitely wrong for getting the numbers so insanely off.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The fact that he posted his blog update saying he will dig more into TPP suggests he will change his position on the issue.
He's walking back the rhetoric because he knows it's wrong to simplify TPP as he did.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)"Is this good or bad? It's a tough discussion. Being of mind against borders and nationalities, I ideologically couldn't give a shit less if a Mexican got a job making Maytag washing machines when an American could be making one instead."
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Heritage foundation, e.g.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Krugman was/is a BIG supporter of NAFTA,
and, in that respect, had a big hand in the destruction of our Working Class.
While I enjoy Krugman, and generally agree with him,
I have never forgiven him for his hand in the destruction of our Working Class,
and discount everything he has to say about "Free Trade" and "Free markets".
He has a big blind spot in this area.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Not economic.
He doesn't appear to actually support TPP but he thinks it's no big deal.
If he is as wrong about TPP as he is NAFTA, then yeah, it is a big deal and he needs to address that.
But the truth is as a treaty it won't be "secret" once it's voted upon. Maybe or maybe not we'll have time to go over it before the vote happens, we'll see.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)They are economically rightwing.
In other words, your excuse is worse than admitting Krugman's (continuing!) error.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)NAFTA also benefited Canada enormously, at the cost of the US' growth.
Krugman doesn't see the world as politically myopic.
This is what the landscape looks like:
NAFTA has been horrific to the production industry, and Krugman was wrong for thinking the impacts were minimal. That doesn't make him right wing or his intentions right wing. Mexico is our neighbor and friend. We are a specter of empire. Must we treat our neighbors with isolationist BS?
Romulox
(25,960 posts)has to be examined in the light of his horrible "error" with regard to NAFTA--an "error" he is all too anxious to repeat with TPP.
marmar
(77,081 posts)...... even if he supports so-called free trade, he should realize the TPP has pretty much nothing to do with trade.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)They effectively run the government through both parties now, but do not want a return to a time when one party (the Democrats) was a viable check on their abuses & unfettered economic and political expansion.
International treaties can provide that authority.
BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)by trying to block the EU summit going on there. I expect administrative arrests and zero coverage, but will try to post here.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Yves had a Krugman critique up this weekend about his view/non-view on the TPP which was a good read along with the comments. Nice to see that it's continuing with Steve Keen's input today.
Also...look forward to your post on the Brussel's Demonstration. That the fast track could still be moving forward is disappointing. Hopefully there will be more backlash from the countries involved in signing it and here at home. Both of my Senators the Dem & Repug support it. Nothing will dislodge the Democrat, it seems, because she's in a tough race given our state got taken over by the Repugs and she's a DINO anyway. Still..I hope.
BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)sank like a stone, but here goes: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024200489
JHB
(37,160 posts)...it's been more about the politics, specifically some parties not arguing in good faith in order to push a favored agenda. To realize that some people were pushing an ideological framework more than seriously addressing policy issues. It took him a long time to absorb that about Republicans and "centrist" pundits.
I suspect he may have a similar case of tunnel vision here.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)subject. However, I have read Dr. K's columns in the NYT since he began with them...years ago. He was always right. His predictions always came true, and there were plenty of times I wished he WAS wrong!
I see this as more of a professional academic difference...and again, I don't get all the nuances of different economic theories (outside of some pretty broad categories of issues). But that's my take on it. I also think Krugman has been moving more and more left throughout the years I have been reading his columns.
Of course, I am a really HUGE Krugman fan, so I am prejudiced!
mmonk
(52,589 posts)I see it as political control and limits on beneficial macro-economic benefit.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Dean Baker is spot on, as usual. BTW Baker is Mr Social Security, Baker is known in Social Security Defenders groups, when I organized the SSD blogathon at Daily Kos earlier this year, I emailed Baker asking him to write for the blogathon, and he did. then I found out that people I knew, knew him.
Baker doesnt get the credit he deserves.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Clearly Baker is brilliant.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Pays big. Ask John Perkins.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)im having a hard time forming an opinion with so much hype being thrown around regarding this issue.