What if the Dixie Chicks had pandered to country audiences like Toby Keith did...

[CreekDog]

Some say the Dixie Chicks ruined their careers and record sales by criticizing President Bush and the Iraq War and by getting into that fight with Toby Keith. They say the Chicks ruined their careers by alienating their audience, meanwhile, Toby Keith capitalized on the zeitgeist of the time, catering to the country audience's conservative leanings.

So, what if the Dixie Chicks had been more like Toby Keith, what kind of success would they have had instead?


Dixie Chicks albums and sales:
1998 Wide Open Spaces: 12 million units (2 Grammys)
1999 Fly: 10 million units (2 Grammys)
2002 Home: 6 million units (4 Grammys) (Natalie Maines' remarks occur in 2003 while touring for this album)
2006 The Long Way Around: 4.5 million units (5 Grammys)


Toby Keith:
1997 Dreamwalking: 500k-1m units (0 Grammys)
1999 How Do You Like Me Now: 1 million units (0 Grammys)
2001 Pull My Chain: 2 million units (0 Grammys)
2002 Unleashed: 4 million units (0 Grammys)
2003 Shock'n Y'all: 4 million units (0 Grammys)
2005 Honkytonk University: 2 million units (0 Grammys)


Yeah, what if the Dixie Chicks had been more like Toby Keith and not criticized President Bush? Could they have been as successful as Toby Keith?

Sometimes the narrative is written to sound nice, rather than because things actually happened that way.

[CreekDog]

1. disclaimer

I own all those Dixie Chicks albums.

And I own Unleashed by Toby Keith.

[okaawhatever]

11. Toby Keith was a long time Democrat and only switched recently. His father being a disabled

vet I think played a big part in his politics.

[CreekDog]

12. i saw that interview where he said that

however, he only said that well after the feud with the Dixie Chicks.

and not only that, the key aspect of the feud was that he was criticizing and mocking them from the right, and from a pro-war point of view.

whatever his registration was, this was not a Democrat to Democrat argument they were having.

[Kurovski]

2. Isn't Toby Keith a line of moisturizers at Baby Gap?

[Sancho]

3. Simply put, the Dixie Chicks are better than Toby....

and they were also right about Bush!

Disclaimer: I have all the DC albums too.

[CreekDog]

4. artistically, their work got better when they were finding their voices

and they found a whole new audience, respect and sales by speaking out against the war and in what they believed.

while Maines didn't do it for fame or further success and it did disrupt things and their trajectory --the irony is that they had a kind of success and respect as a result that they probably woudn't have had on their subsequent album otherwise --if they'd simply kept on the path they'd followed their first few albums.

[politichew]

5. The Dixie Chicks were crucified. End of story. nt

[CreekDog]

6. but they weren't ruined, far from it

[dawg]

7. I don't think it killed their sales at all, but I do think they let the backlash get ...

inside their heads. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that they have only released one regular studio album since the controversy? It sold well. I doubt sales were negatively impacted. But they seem to have lost some of their appetite for the business.

[MicaelS]

8. You don't shit on your fan base's beliefs..

And expect to stay in business. All three of them knew from long experience that the Country music audience is a Conservative one. The simple fact is Maines had a big fucking mouth, and never learned to STFU before that night in London. And the sisters never properly reigned her in. (Yes I meant to say exactly that, and all it implies).

And I say that as someone who loves the Chick's music, and has their first three albums, and still listen to, and enjoy them. Maines has a glorious voice. And I have seven of Keth's albums, but listen to them less often than the Chicks.

[CreekDog]

10. Except what you don't get --they were successful during and after Maines' remarks

they lost substantial airplay, from the stations, but people kept buying their records, more than bought Keith's for what it's worth.

and their next album sold better than any of his.

again, you're falling for the narrative that they were a failure and a flop after that episode, in fact, they were a bigger success in country and in music in general than most bands at the time.

[Tikki]

9. I believe the ducks were already rich, country club yuppie types before the duck show.

We should ask that guy if he is, also, pretending to be an asshole.


Tikki

[CreekDog]

13. I'm talking about the Dixie Chicks, not the Duck thing

[Tikki]

14. I knew who Natalie Maines' father was before I knew who she was…her father is a well known..

studio musician..later producer. And I know she was raised in a liberal environment, at least at home.

So I prob would be more surprised if she was total rwcon.

Having said that, I find it interesting that so many country music listeners would call her
by the nickname 'Nat' and fawned all over her, knew all her business…that is until she spoke the truth and then
they got all upset.


Tikki

[CreekDog]

15. I'd been a fan since "There's Your Trouble"...I learned of the controversy from Bruce Springsteen

one of my folkie-friends emailed me asking if I knew anything about the Dixie Chicks (she knew I liked country...) and she pointed me to Bruce's statement supporting them.

i know it was painful for the Dixie Chicks, but i think that bit of honesty was the best thing that ever happened to them. they made better music afterwards and they found an audience that ultimately appreciated not only what they did, but who they were. they were touring Western Europe as a country band then --how long were they really going to be in the good graces of good old boy country radio? the seeds were sown in the different sound of the album that tour was promoting, and in their changing appeal...Maines' comments got them off country radio, but the programmers would've done it within a year or so anyway. that's what country music radio does to anyone authentic. i used to hear a country music station brag that they don't play "Willie Nelson" back in the 1990s, when the suck started to win.

anyway, i remember seeing them after the controversy at the Oakland Coliseum Arena and when Maines referenced the incident, the crowd roared in support.

there's a lesson. sometimes it's better to say what you think so you find out who your friends really are.

[JI7]

16. there are a lot of right wing fans of rock music

in fact i find it hard to go to some music forums because in the open dicussion forums there will often be some political topic and it will be full of wingnut shit.

and of course we have the wingnut fans of hip hop. and those who were fans of springsteen and were shocked he would support democrats.

there is a stereotype that certain types of music tend to have fans that lean a certain way politically more than they actually do.

on DU i once saw a post attacking Obama for pandering to right wingers because some country musician was performing at some event when that musician was a long time democrat.

even that idiot Toby keith voted for Obama and he was actually on good terms with john kerry even if he supported bush.

anyways going back to that duck dynasty crap. while i'm sure there are some loud but most likely small number of supporters who are angry . the networks probably have a lot more to lose by keeping them on . but we will see what happens. they might try to work out some deal where he apologizes or "changes his thinking' and stays on air.

[painesghost]

17. So True.

there are a lot of right wing fans of rock music

The amount of reactionary frat boys at my school that loved Rage Against the Machine is another case in point.

[JI7]

18. yup, remember Rage Against the Machine is Paul Ryans favorite band

and right now what the media is propping up are the hip hop republicans like Rubio, that republican Trey Radel who uses cocaine, o'keefe, rove etc.

remember how during discussions of rap some years back it was always said that most who actually buy those records are white kids from well off families. well these kids have now grown up and are involved in the republican party.

anyways the point is more about how one can't tell one's politics by music. this is why republicans always get in trouble for playing music by artists who don't want them to . they could make it easier and just play Pat Boone .

[painesghost]

19. Wow, I didn't actually know that about Paul Ryan! n/t

[Egnever]

20. So wait

Are you trying to say this had no effect on them?

Cause what I see you doing here is comparing a band with unquestionable talent a grammy nod for every album to a niche guy who pandered to get success.

You cant look at these basic numbers and get a feel for the impact. Who is to say if the remarks had not been made the 2006 album wouldn't have sold a lot more units.

[CreekDog]

21. You know if the remarks hadn't been made...

The 2006 album that was made wouldnt have existed. The songs that were written, the tone, the reasons were the result of the whole 2003 experience.

Maybe if they hadn't made the remarks, a different album would've been made and sold better. Or maybe not...

Before they were kicked off country radio, the wrote this in one of their popular songs:

"We listen to the radio to hear what's cookin',
But the music ain't got no soul.

Now they sound tired but they don't sound Haggard,
They've got money but they don't have Cash.
They got Junior but they don't have Hank.
I think, I think, I think, the rest is,
A long time gone"

They were already telling country radio off. It was ending. The remarks weren't truly regretted, she sang as much and they played the tune behind it.

And the line about havin Junior but not Hank? That's f u country radio, and possibly to Hank Jr too.

[GReedDiamond]

22. As a voting member of the Music Academy (for over 20 years)...

...that is, NARAS, aka, "The Grammys" - I am "proud" of the Academy for recognizing the difference between Quality Country Music (Dixie Chicks), and Forgettable Country Dreck (Toby Keith).

NARAS is very corporate and institutionalized, but it has its moments.

[CreekDog]

23. thanks for saying that