The Francis factor: Pope’s economic ideas rattle GOP

[onehandle]

He draws crowds like a rock star, was named “Person of the Year” by Time as well as a gay rights magazine, and drew the ire of Rush Limbaugh for his criticism of “trickle-down” economics. Pope Francis has dramatically shifted the message and tone of the Vatican in the last nine months, and he’s forcing Republicans in Washington to reassess their relationship with the Catholic church.

For years, Catholic leaders’ staunch and very public opposition to abortion, gay marriage and the contraception-related provisions of Obamacare made them natural allies for the GOP. But Francis has scrambled the equation by de-emphasizing hot-button social issues, warning against unchecked capitalism and pushing a populist message at odds with the core of the anti-spending, anti-big government Republican Party.

It’s unclear whether Francis’s proclamations will fray the ties between the right and the Vatican, but already some conservatives have sharply criticized his economic ideas. At the same time, some on the right have expressed admiration for the 77-year-old pope’s more inclusive approach, including on subjects such as homosexuality. Their praise comes as the GOP itself grapples with growing disenchantment among young people and other demographics for its strident tone on social issues.

“His economic perspective I’m not particularly enamored with, but his advocacy for the poor, his lifestyle example, his more modern outlook on social issues — I’ve been very impressed,” said Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/pope-francis-catholic-church-republicans-gop-economics-101522.html

[ProSense]

1. This is the

For years, Catholic leaders’ staunch and very public opposition to abortion, gay marriage and the contraception-related provisions of Obamacare made them natural allies for the GOP. But Francis has scrambled the equation by de-emphasizing hot-button social issues, warning against unchecked capitalism and pushing a populist message at odds with the core of the anti-spending, anti-big government Republican Party.

... key effect. The Pope will serve to rattle the RW's economic talking points. The die-hard anti-equality people (those who oppose gay and women's rights) will stick with his message on those issues, but he disrupts the RW's "anti-spending, anti-big government" push when he focuses on the plight of the poor.

With the advances in LGBT rights and the push back against the war on women (Republicans can't stop the progress in those areas, though they will try to), this is the best time to refocus on inequality.

[ProSense]

3. Is this

"President Obama is the King of trickle down economics. lol "

...what you mean: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024227754

Welcome to DU.

Happy Holidays!

[RKP5637]

4. Excellent! Thank you for posting this! n/t

[freshwest]

51. Aw, I missed it...

[sendero]

5. No one paying attention...

... could really argue with that, but the pope's position is merely one in a basket full of signs that people have had enough Reaganomics.

[Gore1FL]

6. I'd pick at least one nit with the author.

Time's "Person of the Year" doesn't mean anything other than he was the most news worthy. It's not an honor of praise or recognition of character.Putin, Starr, Khomeini, Stalin, and Hitler.

[ananda]

7. Ich. I feel slimed by the McCain quote.

Yuck factor exponential.

Who cares what the fucking Reeps think? I could care less whether
Pope Frank has their approval or not.

[mountain grammy]

11. Amen. I feel slimed by McCain everytime he speaks...

and I could also care less if the Repubs approve of Pope Francis. I find myself smiling every time he speaks.

[decrepittex]

28. I'm not Catholic or religious but

I like Pope Francis. He seems like what a Christian should represent.

[Left Coast2020]

36. Neither am I.

But I am a bit encouraged that someone of faith is saying enough is enough. The rMoney crowd don't give a shit about poor people or those that are homeless.

Glad he is making an issue of it since no else seems to give a damn. Selfishness should be outlawed. It seems to go against various religious doctrines. Why not outlaw it in another capacity?

And on the homeless(while I'm thinking about 24/7). I am also encouraged as to what Utah is doing to get people off the streets. Human beings with a roof over their head is a form of dignity--as a country. Its about fucking time this country give people any dignity they lost through corrupt, selfish shit brought on by a bunch of fucktards on Wall Street. May they burn in hell.

[Enthusiast]

37. The effects of selfishness are moderated by good progressive tax policy.

The RIGHTIES® have controlled the discussion (media) for so many decades that we no longer even discuss progressive tax policy.

All the nation has done is pretend that trickle down economics is a viable strategy to increase job creation. Supply-side economics is pure fantasy, an artificially propped up house of cards. It is no less "Voodoo Economics" now than it was when G H W Bush described it as such in 1978. One of the only things G H W Bush was ever right about, I might add.

[nikto]

67. Any Pope that has GOP approval...

Can't be much of a spiritual leader.

[DallasNE]

8. What McCain Fails To Realize

Is that it is Pope Francis' advocacy for the poor that has driven him to his conclusion on trickle down and is the natural, logical conclusion to it being central to his economic perspective. His message is really a knife in the heart of Reaganomics so expect him to hammer hard on the theme of inequality as he returns the Catholic Church to its roots.

[lastlib]

9. Columnist Donald Kaul once wrote that.....

...if you put a plank in the GOP platform about throwing the moneychangers out of the temple, the Dow-Jones average would drop 900 points. Was he ever spot on!!

[riqster]

10. Make it 9,000. nt

[lastlib]

41. well, the DJIA was a lot lower then......

...but today you'd probably be right!

[burnsei sensei]

12. A pretender to power comments upon the thought of a truly powerful man.

“His economic perspective I’m not particularly enamored with, but his advocacy for the poor, his lifestyle example, his more modern outlook on social issues — I’ve been very impressed,”

Who needs John McCain?
Really?

[nikto]

68. Who needs John McCain?

The Hanoi Hilton misses him, dearly.

He should go back.

[LiberalElite]

13. About that lifestyle example, Senator -

do you still own eight properties?

[hibbing]

33. who knows

Wasn't it him who could not even answer how many houses he has, and I don't mean because of his age either. Kind of like a 99% not knowing how many pennies he/she has on their nightstand.

Peace

[Enthusiast]

38. Actually McCain couldn't recall how many homes he owned.

And we are supposed to listen to him in regard to trickle down policy? I don't think so.

[randr]

14. The Republicans are rattled by the very ideals of Christianity

The folks over at BSM have waged a war on the real meanings of Christmas for the last few years. They want to brand Christmas with an "us against them" notion. The very meanings of Christmas most of us grew up with about "peace, love, and unity" are absent from any discussion.
I really feel sorry for the young children growing up today, especially in a faux viewing home.

[jsr]

16. I doubt RWers and Wall Street banksters have any spirituality whatsoever

[randr]

17. They most likely think of "spirituality"

as some hippie or new age idea.
They definitely have a blind allegiance to the daily dogma as interpreted by this most undereducated among their ranks.
As the years have gone by they have lost most every thread of the humanity they profess to espouse.
I truly feel sorry for them, especially this time of year when we celebrate the unity of humankind that they have separated themselves from.

[MisterP]

31. "culture's just something you leave at the door, or that you only find in operas

it may be part of *other* people, but however I am is the default"

--their worldview

[Enthusiast]

40. The term "morally bankrupt" comes to mind.

[Enthusiast]

39. +1 a significant amount!

The hypocrisy is stunning.

[homegirl]

15. The other shoe

I am waiting for the "other shoe" to drop. When the Pope/Vatican changes its position on contraception.
Considering that Italy has one of the lowest birth rates in the world it is time for the Holy Roman Church to accept the obvious.

[Swede Atlanta]

18. The Republicans lack the ability to "connect the dots"........

Take the following actions......
(1) Cut taxes for the wealthiest in the nation
(2) Promote free trade (a la NAFTA) that moves good paying jobs overseas
(3) Create tax loopholes for the wealthiest corporations and individuals and in fact even give them a rebate when they have not paid a penny in tax
(4) Stand against collective bargaining in both the private and public sectors
(5) Start 2 wars and not pay for either of them
(6) Give banks free reign to gamble with the economy and then bail them out when they do and not prosecute those to blame for the worst economic crisis since the 1930s
(7) Slowly but steadily dismantle the social safety net starting with draconian cuts to the welfare system in 1990s followed by anemic support for unemployment benefits, food stamps and other programs that benefit the poor
(8) Ignore returning veterans by cutting programs
(9) Brand public education "failed" and fail to invest in sensible programs to improve the performance of American children
.......the list could go on and on.......

These actions have brought us in this country to the calamity that is the current economy. These actions have resulted in a dismantling of the American middle class and have tramped the poor even further into the ground. All the while they gloat about the wonderful American economic system.

[BlueStreak]

27. I am struck at how close the Pope is to Kos' "Contract"

See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/22/1263930/-A-Democratic-contract-with-America-How-to-retake-the-House-and-combat-economic-inequality

1) Increase the federal minimum hourly wage to $12.50 and index it to inflation.

2) Create jobs through federally funded infrastructure spending.

3) Improve education—and save money in the long run—by funding universal pre-kindergarten.

4) Increase the earned income tax credit and make more middle-income families eligible.

5) Increase the personal exemption on federal income taxes by $500.

6) Shore up Social Security by subjecting income over $300,000 to the payroll tax.

7) Implement the Warren Buffett Rule to ensure that people earning over $1 million are paying at least an effective tax rate of 30 percent.

8) Eliminate "Mitt Romney's favorite tax break" to ensure hedge fund managers pay regular income tax rates on their incomes.

9) Eliminate subsidies that go to millionaire farmers.

10) Close other corporate tax loopholes, including ones that reward corporations for moving jobs overseas.

Maybe Pope Francis isn't as specific as Kos, but he is very consistent with that. THIS is where we need to go in 2014. If we could pick up another 3-5% from Catholics who haven't been with us recently, that would be decisive. They love this Pope. We need to work together.

[Turbineguy]

19. Rush Limbaugh has done

very well under trickle down economics in that his doltish followers' cash has trickled up into his pockets.

[decrepittex]

25. I'm sure Rush

thanks Saint Ronnie every day.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

42. Rush has a resemblance to Arnold Ziffer don't you think??

If only he had the same credibility!!I think the Pope doesn't really worry what Rush thinks and probably doesn't even know who he is!!Although I'd bet he knows who Arnold Ziffer is!!!

[Enthusiast]

59. I think you mean Arnold Ziffel.

Don't think the resemblance has gone unnoticed.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[mdbl]

60. I think Arnold would be insulted

since he's a much better looking pig than Rush

[Enthusiast]

62. true.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

63. Yes, I must google betterer next time on the internets!!!

[Enthusiast]

65. Not a problem, Theyletmeeatcake2.

[JDPriestly]

20. A pope who has actually read the Gospels. Imagine that.

So refreshing.

[indepat]

21. Imagine the Pope rattling the cages of the GOPer's un-Christian and anti-Christian dogma, deeds

and agenda.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. The Berlin Wall Fell

so did the Iron Curtain

With Putin supporting traditional religion while showing
mercy to Pussy Riot

Big forces are shifting to change the world for the better

before it's too late.

I wonder if this Pope would be doing the same things
if this were, say, 1975?

[rpannier]

24. The Pope as he is now, or as he was in 1975

There is an interesting article on his life that I read. His first job was working for a woman who was a Marxist. When he joined the Jesuits he was given a rather powerful position within the order at age 35 (1974ish). He did hide her books that would have gotten her arrested. She was eventually arrested and tossed into the ocean. Her body was recovered and buried in a grave on Jesuit grounds.
But by all reports, he was overwhelmed and rather weak in dealing with the military government, which apparently has affected him. He readily admits he could have, and should have done more to oppose the Argentine Dictatorship, but failed.
So if it was that Jesuit priest who failed to rise to the occasion and do the right thing, the answer is probably no. If it's the man who learned from his grave failures then I think the answer is. "Yes, he probably would."

[freshwest]

23. GOP, self named as God's Own Party, is due to be rattled / outted as the deadly frauds they are. n/t

[mazzarro]

34. GOP should be recast as Greedy Old Party - n/t

[Flatpicker]

26. It would be interesting

If this pushed the GOP to re-establish the separation of church and state that they have spent years tearing down.

[Berlum]

29. Why do Republicons HATE the teachings of Christ?

What's up with that?

[nikto]

53. Easy answer...

YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY MONEY OFF
The actual, original teachings of Christ.

Compassion? Forgiveness? Inclusion? Mercy for the poor and powerless?

You just can't make any money off that stuff.

So they create a new, "free-market" Jesus they can live with.

And millions of churchgoers BUY IT.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Francis is the richest cleric ever. RCC is ultra wealthy, one of the world's leading

financial powers, they own vast commercial real estate, enormous amounts of stocks and bonds, you name it they have lots of it. But of course you are correct, if you follow the teachings you don't make money. Francis makes bank, owns a bank, a palace, another palace, half of Knightsbridge, a block in Paris, etc.
What 'stuff' is the Vatican doing to make all that money? Clearly some 'stuff' outside the commands of the one they claim to worship and follow....

[nikto]

66. He still seems more enlightened than most of the others

Probably not equal to John XXIII, but better than most.

[TommyCelt]

69. Pope Francis "owns" the Vatican Bank, palaces, etc...

...in the same manner that President Obama "owns" the Federal Reserve, the White House, Camp David, etc. And he can no more sell off these "assets" than President Obama can.

[nikto]

70. So Pope Francis can't just make a big withdrawal from the Vatican Bank and...

...skip town for Monte Carlo?

That's a relief.

[JHB]

30. I have vague hopes that this pope might cause a RW evangelical foam-out...

...where their anti-Catholicism gets put out where everyone can see it. That's what doomed the Christian Coalition's Catholic outreach, but it didn't really get into the general news.

[Populist_Prole]

32. That's what I hope too

A wedge issue using a wedge big enough to split logs, with him sledgehammering it into the GOP's "christian" base.

[moondust]

35. Lucky for the pope,

Allen Dulles is rotting in Hell where he can't cry "Communist!" and plot a CIA coup.

[CountAllVotes]

43. I often wonder who writes this stuff

The proper spelling of Francis (to show ownership that is) is FRANCIS'.

It is incorrect to write it as Francis's ...

Says what I think about the rest of this "article" or whatever it purports itself to be ...

Back to school for you is my reply to the author of this!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

45. The misplacement of an apostrophe caused you to trash the whole article.

No agenda at work here, I see.

[kelliekat44]

44. Maybe the GOP will start their own religious denomination? Wonder what the name would be? nt

[LongTomH]

46. They're already trying to rewrite the Bible!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024208323

[zbdent]

47. we may soon find out who U.S. Catholics really

bow down to ...

[BlueMTexpat]

48. I will never again be part of any institutional religion.

But Pope Francis has so far reminded me of what religion should aspire to be.

Yes, there are still those issues with the status of women, etc. in the Catholic Church. But, as a recovering Catholic, this man gives me hope that the Church may some day even be able to cope with them in enlightened fashion.

Faith is important to many people and I respect those who believe in the same spirit as Francis appears to, regardless of whatever labels are attached to their beliefs.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. So does the anti gay and anti choice policy and speech make you like him more?

Last week Uganda passed a law demanding life in prison for gay people. Although Catholics are the largest religious group in Uganda, comprising 42% of the population, Francis said nothing to oppose that hateful law. Nothing. And on DU, Democrats were too busy praising the homophobe to bother opposing that law. Another 40% of Uganda is Anglican. Catholic and Anglican leaders there pushed this law hard.
That's what Team Francis is hoping we all ignore, the reality and the actions of this man's company.

[BlueMTexpat]

57. Not sure why you seem to be attacking me/my post.

There is still a long - very long - way to go, as I tried to indicate.

But the economic area is a good place to begin since it encompasses many others and speaking out is a good first step. Acting on those words would be even better.

[saidsimplesimon]

49. onehandle, thanks for sharing politico.

Senator McCain knows no family values other than "to to the victorious go the spoils of war". It's a sad ending for an American who was subjected to torture as a POW.

Arizona will remain purple until we have a candidate willing to stand up for our values. winning a victory that puts citizens above politics and profit.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

50. Where does Pope Francis get all these radical ideas?

Oh that's right, they are all written down in this book called The New Testament, it's about the teachings of this guy called Jesus.

[dflprincess]

52. I saw a post on Facebook that Paul Ryan is saying the Pope doesn't understand capitalism

because, according to Ryan, in Argentina they have "crony capitalism" not a free enterprise system like we have.

Apparently it is not crony capitalism when a near bankrupt company (Haliburton) gets all sorts of defense contracts after its former head gets elected vice-president and helps lie us into a war of choice.

Someone needs to explain to Ryan that the pope is a Jesuit and Jesuits are usually very smart and very well educated. I don't think Pope Francis needs lessons in anything from and Ayn Rand disciple.

[mdbl]

61. Ryan is a total moran and everyone in Wisconsin needs to

be continually reminded of their stupidity for allowing such a selfish idiot represent them in Wash.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. And yet Republicans and the Pope agree on opposition to equal rights and reproductive

choice. Francis and his fans like to pretend that discrimination against the minorities they don't like and the control of women's bodies are not economic issues which destroy people and famililes, they pretend this because these are the policies they defend, policies which harm the least among us.
When you straights allow discrimination against my people we pay the price in many ways. If you folks were human enough to treat us equally and fairly, instead of debt we'd have savings, instead of needs we'd have full lives. That which my household lacks financially is due to the unjust treatment of us under YOUR laws, so affecting that you care is theatrical, but I see no evidence that this is the case.
Religious parents each year reject and throw way thousands of gay young people, who are then homeless and on the streets. The words of men like Francis create that vicious culture. He says we are from 'the Father of all Lies'. Of the devil, and you all cheer for that. When those parents reject their kids you folks don't say or do a thing about it. Others pick up those pieces as best we can, cleaning up the messes made by clerics who indulge in vicious and bigoted diatribes against young people who neve harmed anyone and certainly never harmed some millionaire cleric.
I wonder how many cheering for the anti equality, anti choice cleric are also anti gay and anti choice and anit equality? How many are hoping to 'compromise' on equality to assist this rich old fire breather?

[Eleanors38]

58. Populists should accept help wherever we find it...

Right now, we find it in Pope Francis, Elizabeth Warren, and a few others. Francis has his warts, but none of us are virgins on this mortal coil.

[Barack_America]

64. You know you're hopeless when the Catholic Church moves into the 21st century without you.

The political equivalent of Latin.