General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Francis factor: Pope’s economic ideas rattle GOP
He draws crowds like a rock star, was named Person of the Year by Time as well as a gay rights magazine, and drew the ire of Rush Limbaugh for his criticism of trickle-down economics. Pope Francis has dramatically shifted the message and tone of the Vatican in the last nine months, and hes forcing Republicans in Washington to reassess their relationship with the Catholic church.
For years, Catholic leaders staunch and very public opposition to abortion, gay marriage and the contraception-related provisions of Obamacare made them natural allies for the GOP. But Francis has scrambled the equation by de-emphasizing hot-button social issues, warning against unchecked capitalism and pushing a populist message at odds with the core of the anti-spending, anti-big government Republican Party.
Its unclear whether Franciss proclamations will fray the ties between the right and the Vatican, but already some conservatives have sharply criticized his economic ideas. At the same time, some on the right have expressed admiration for the 77-year-old popes more inclusive approach, including on subjects such as homosexuality. Their praise comes as the GOP itself grapples with growing disenchantment among young people and other demographics for its strident tone on social issues.
His economic perspective Im not particularly enamored with, but his advocacy for the poor, his lifestyle example, his more modern outlook on social issues Ive been very impressed, said Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/pope-francis-catholic-church-republicans-gop-economics-101522.html
ProSense
(116,464 posts)... key effect. The Pope will serve to rattle the RW's economic talking points. The die-hard anti-equality people (those who oppose gay and women's rights) will stick with his message on those issues, but he disrupts the RW's "anti-spending, anti-big government" push when he focuses on the plight of the poor.
With the advances in LGBT rights and the push back against the war on women (Republicans can't stop the progress in those areas, though they will try to), this is the best time to refocus on inequality.
Response to onehandle (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"President Obama is the King of trickle down economics. lol "
...what you mean: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024227754
Welcome to DU.
Happy Holidays!
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts)... could really argue with that, but the pope's position is merely one in a basket full of signs that people have had enough Reaganomics.
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)Time's "Person of the Year" doesn't mean anything other than he was the most news worthy. It's not an honor of praise or recognition of character.Putin, Starr, Khomeini, Stalin, and Hitler.
ananda
(28,868 posts)Yuck factor exponential.
Who cares what the fucking Reeps think? I could care less whether
Pope Frank has their approval or not.
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)and I could also care less if the Repubs approve of Pope Francis. I find myself smiling every time he speaks.
decrepittex
(53 posts)I like Pope Francis. He seems like what a Christian should represent.
Left Coast2020
(2,397 posts)But I am a bit encouraged that someone of faith is saying enough is enough. The rMoney crowd don't give a shit about poor people or those that are homeless.
Glad he is making an issue of it since no else seems to give a damn. Selfishness should be outlawed. It seems to go against various religious doctrines. Why not outlaw it in another capacity?
And on the homeless(while I'm thinking about 24/7). I am also encouraged as to what Utah is doing to get people off the streets. Human beings with a roof over their head is a form of dignity--as a country. Its about fucking time this country give people any dignity they lost through corrupt, selfish shit brought on by a bunch of fucktards on Wall Street. May they burn in hell.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The RIGHTIES® have controlled the discussion (media) for so many decades that we no longer even discuss progressive tax policy.
All the nation has done is pretend that trickle down economics is a viable strategy to increase job creation. Supply-side economics is pure fantasy, an artificially propped up house of cards. It is no less "Voodoo Economics" now than it was when G H W Bush described it as such in 1978. One of the only things G H W Bush was ever right about, I might add.
nikto
(3,284 posts)Can't be much of a spiritual leader.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Is that it is Pope Francis' advocacy for the poor that has driven him to his conclusion on trickle down and is the natural, logical conclusion to it being central to his economic perspective. His message is really a knife in the heart of Reaganomics so expect him to hammer hard on the theme of inequality as he returns the Catholic Church to its roots.
lastlib
(23,251 posts)...if you put a plank in the GOP platform about throwing the moneychangers out of the temple, the Dow-Jones average would drop 900 points. Was he ever spot on!!
riqster
(13,986 posts)lastlib
(23,251 posts)...but today you'd probably be right!
burnsei sensei
(1,820 posts)His economic perspective Im not particularly enamored with, but his advocacy for the poor, his lifestyle example, his more modern outlook on social issues Ive been very impressed,
Who needs John McCain?
Really?
nikto
(3,284 posts)The Hanoi Hilton misses him, dearly.
He should go back.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)do you still own eight properties?
hibbing
(10,098 posts)Wasn't it him who could not even answer how many houses he has, and I don't mean because of his age either. Kind of like a 99% not knowing how many pennies he/she has on their nightstand.
Peace
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)And we are supposed to listen to him in regard to trickle down policy? I don't think so.
randr
(12,412 posts)The folks over at BSM have waged a war on the real meanings of Christmas for the last few years. They want to brand Christmas with an "us against them" notion. The very meanings of Christmas most of us grew up with about "peace, love, and unity" are absent from any discussion.
I really feel sorry for the young children growing up today, especially in a faux viewing home.
jsr
(7,712 posts)randr
(12,412 posts)as some hippie or new age idea.
They definitely have a blind allegiance to the daily dogma as interpreted by this most undereducated among their ranks.
As the years have gone by they have lost most every thread of the humanity they profess to espouse.
I truly feel sorry for them, especially this time of year when we celebrate the unity of humankind that they have separated themselves from.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it may be part of *other* people, but however I am is the default"
--their worldview
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The hypocrisy is stunning.
homegirl
(1,429 posts)I am waiting for the "other shoe" to drop. When the Pope/Vatican changes its position on contraception.
Considering that Italy has one of the lowest birth rates in the world it is time for the Holy Roman Church to accept the obvious.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)Take the following actions......
(1) Cut taxes for the wealthiest in the nation
(2) Promote free trade (a la NAFTA) that moves good paying jobs overseas
(3) Create tax loopholes for the wealthiest corporations and individuals and in fact even give them a rebate when they have not paid a penny in tax
(4) Stand against collective bargaining in both the private and public sectors
(5) Start 2 wars and not pay for either of them
(6) Give banks free reign to gamble with the economy and then bail them out when they do and not prosecute those to blame for the worst economic crisis since the 1930s
(7) Slowly but steadily dismantle the social safety net starting with draconian cuts to the welfare system in 1990s followed by anemic support for unemployment benefits, food stamps and other programs that benefit the poor
(8) Ignore returning veterans by cutting programs
(9) Brand public education "failed" and fail to invest in sensible programs to improve the performance of American children
.......the list could go on and on.......
These actions have brought us in this country to the calamity that is the current economy. These actions have resulted in a dismantling of the American middle class and have tramped the poor even further into the ground. All the while they gloat about the wonderful American economic system.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/22/1263930/-A-Democratic-contract-with-America-How-to-retake-the-House-and-combat-economic-inequality
1) Increase the federal minimum hourly wage to $12.50 and index it to inflation.
2) Create jobs through federally funded infrastructure spending.
3) Improve educationand save money in the long runby funding universal pre-kindergarten.
4) Increase the earned income tax credit and make more middle-income families eligible.
5) Increase the personal exemption on federal income taxes by $500.
6) Shore up Social Security by subjecting income over $300,000 to the payroll tax.
7) Implement the Warren Buffett Rule to ensure that people earning over $1 million are paying at least an effective tax rate of 30 percent.
8) Eliminate "Mitt Romney's favorite tax break" to ensure hedge fund managers pay regular income tax rates on their incomes.
9) Eliminate subsidies that go to millionaire farmers.
10) Close other corporate tax loopholes, including ones that reward corporations for moving jobs overseas.
Maybe Pope Francis isn't as specific as Kos, but he is very consistent with that. THIS is where we need to go in 2014. If we could pick up another 3-5% from Catholics who haven't been with us recently, that would be decisive. They love this Pope. We need to work together.
Turbineguy
(37,354 posts)very well under trickle down economics in that his doltish followers' cash has trickled up into his pockets.
decrepittex
(53 posts)thanks Saint Ronnie every day.
Theyletmeeatcake2
(348 posts)If only he had the same credibility!!I think the Pope doesn't really worry what Rush thinks and probably doesn't even know who he is!!Although I'd bet he knows who Arnold Ziffer is!!!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Don't think the resemblance has gone unnoticed.
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
mdbl
(4,973 posts)since he's a much better looking pig than Rush
Theyletmeeatcake2
(348 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)So refreshing.
indepat
(20,899 posts)and agenda.
bucolic_frolic
(43,205 posts)so did the Iron Curtain
With Putin supporting traditional religion while showing
mercy to Pussy Riot
Big forces are shifting to change the world for the better
before it's too late.
I wonder if this Pope would be doing the same things
if this were, say, 1975?
rpannier
(24,330 posts)There is an interesting article on his life that I read. His first job was working for a woman who was a Marxist. When he joined the Jesuits he was given a rather powerful position within the order at age 35 (1974ish). He did hide her books that would have gotten her arrested. She was eventually arrested and tossed into the ocean. Her body was recovered and buried in a grave on Jesuit grounds.
But by all reports, he was overwhelmed and rather weak in dealing with the military government, which apparently has affected him. He readily admits he could have, and should have done more to oppose the Argentine Dictatorship, but failed.
So if it was that Jesuit priest who failed to rise to the occasion and do the right thing, the answer is probably no. If it's the man who learned from his grave failures then I think the answer is. "Yes, he probably would."
freshwest
(53,661 posts)mazzarro
(3,450 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)If this pushed the GOP to re-establish the separation of church and state that they have spent years tearing down.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)What's up with that?
nikto
(3,284 posts)The actual, original teachings of Christ.
Compassion? Forgiveness? Inclusion? Mercy for the poor and powerless?
You just can't make any money off that stuff.
So they create a new, "free-market" Jesus they can live with.
And millions of churchgoers BUY IT.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)financial powers, they own vast commercial real estate, enormous amounts of stocks and bonds, you name it they have lots of it. But of course you are correct, if you follow the teachings you don't make money. Francis makes bank, owns a bank, a palace, another palace, half of Knightsbridge, a block in Paris, etc.
What 'stuff' is the Vatican doing to make all that money? Clearly some 'stuff' outside the commands of the one they claim to worship and follow....
nikto
(3,284 posts)Probably not equal to John XXIII, but better than most.
TommyCelt
(838 posts)...in the same manner that President Obama "owns" the Federal Reserve, the White House, Camp David, etc. And he can no more sell off these "assets" than President Obama can.
nikto
(3,284 posts)...skip town for Monte Carlo?
That's a relief.
JHB
(37,161 posts)...where their anti-Catholicism gets put out where everyone can see it. That's what doomed the Christian Coalition's Catholic outreach, but it didn't really get into the general news.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)A wedge issue using a wedge big enough to split logs, with him sledgehammering it into the GOP's "christian" base.
moondust
(19,993 posts)Allen Dulles is rotting in Hell where he can't cry "Communist!" and plot a CIA coup.
CountAllVotes
(20,876 posts)The proper spelling of Francis (to show ownership that is) is FRANCIS'.
It is incorrect to write it as Francis's ...
Says what I think about the rest of this "article" or whatever it purports itself to be ...
Back to school for you is my reply to the author of this!
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)No agenda at work here, I see.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)zbdent
(35,392 posts)bow down to ...
BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)But Pope Francis has so far reminded me of what religion should aspire to be.
Yes, there are still those issues with the status of women, etc. in the Catholic Church. But, as a recovering Catholic, this man gives me hope that the Church may some day even be able to cope with them in enlightened fashion.
Faith is important to many people and I respect those who believe in the same spirit as Francis appears to, regardless of whatever labels are attached to their beliefs.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Last week Uganda passed a law demanding life in prison for gay people. Although Catholics are the largest religious group in Uganda, comprising 42% of the population, Francis said nothing to oppose that hateful law. Nothing. And on DU, Democrats were too busy praising the homophobe to bother opposing that law. Another 40% of Uganda is Anglican. Catholic and Anglican leaders there pushed this law hard.
That's what Team Francis is hoping we all ignore, the reality and the actions of this man's company.
BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)There is still a long - very long - way to go, as I tried to indicate.
But the economic area is a good place to begin since it encompasses many others and speaking out is a good first step. Acting on those words would be even better.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Senator McCain knows no family values other than "to to the victorious go the spoils of war". It's a sad ending for an American who was subjected to torture as a POW.
Arizona will remain purple until we have a candidate willing to stand up for our values. winning a victory that puts citizens above politics and profit.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Oh that's right, they are all written down in this book called The New Testament, it's about the teachings of this guy called Jesus.
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)because, according to Ryan, in Argentina they have "crony capitalism" not a free enterprise system like we have.
Apparently it is not crony capitalism when a near bankrupt company (Haliburton) gets all sorts of defense contracts after its former head gets elected vice-president and helps lie us into a war of choice.
Someone needs to explain to Ryan that the pope is a Jesuit and Jesuits are usually very smart and very well educated. I don't think Pope Francis needs lessons in anything from and Ayn Rand disciple.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)be continually reminded of their stupidity for allowing such a selfish idiot represent them in Wash.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)choice. Francis and his fans like to pretend that discrimination against the minorities they don't like and the control of women's bodies are not economic issues which destroy people and famililes, they pretend this because these are the policies they defend, policies which harm the least among us.
When you straights allow discrimination against my people we pay the price in many ways. If you folks were human enough to treat us equally and fairly, instead of debt we'd have savings, instead of needs we'd have full lives. That which my household lacks financially is due to the unjust treatment of us under YOUR laws, so affecting that you care is theatrical, but I see no evidence that this is the case.
Religious parents each year reject and throw way thousands of gay young people, who are then homeless and on the streets. The words of men like Francis create that vicious culture. He says we are from 'the Father of all Lies'. Of the devil, and you all cheer for that. When those parents reject their kids you folks don't say or do a thing about it. Others pick up those pieces as best we can, cleaning up the messes made by clerics who indulge in vicious and bigoted diatribes against young people who neve harmed anyone and certainly never harmed some millionaire cleric.
I wonder how many cheering for the anti equality, anti choice cleric are also anti gay and anti choice and anit equality? How many are hoping to 'compromise' on equality to assist this rich old fire breather?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Right now, we find it in Pope Francis, Elizabeth Warren, and a few others. Francis has his warts, but none of us are virgins on this mortal coil.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)The political equivalent of Latin.