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NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I am bookmarking to await the alleged hordes of pro-"rape culture" DUers waiting to contradict you.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Give it a rest dude------ give it a fucking rest.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Perhaps DU should implement a post quota so the quantity of my posts stop offending you? I think we can reach a reasonable consensus
niyad
(113,348 posts)on the other hand, this is one of the funniest things I have read all day.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I welcome you to the discussion!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)uh, tone
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Couldn't agree more on its importance!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)personally, i feel passive aggressive to be cowardly.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)What you present is a false dichotomy. There is no reason to choose between explicit rudeness and passive aggressiveness. Most certainly not on DU
on edit: I'm assuming "explicit rudeness" is what you mean by "straight on", as it is presented as a contrast to passive aggressiveness. I didn't intend to put words in your mouth if that's not the case
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)though, is a whole nother animal.
persoanlly, i believe straight and blunt is a gift. no one has to work at figuring out what is being said. add or take out of what is being said.
further, i would say being straight and blunt is the act of being considerate.
throwing jabs while actin civilly though is cowardly, imo
xulamaude
(847 posts)Yes because we are supposed to be adults (well, over the age of 13 anyway...) here and being to the point shouldn't harm an adult mentality..
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hear hear.
or
here here
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)And sorry I presumed you meant rude (though, likewise, you are presuming I am being passive aggressive).
i would say being straight and blunt is the act of being considerate
Not if you also simultaneously offend people in a careless manner, it isn't. I have seen that occur in some posters' attempts to be blunt and express their opinion.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)1. Be Impeccable with your Word: Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love.
2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.
3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
an excellent book. a wonderful way to see life.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements.
it really is an excellent book. a fav. easy to read. a short afternoon.
my son read at about 10 and helped him a lot and read it later, at about 14. he appreciated it. i like it.
i especially like not taking compliments personally. we all get not taking insults. but the same applies with compliments.
easy to read, obvious and good.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)If someone is so easily alienated by the plain truth, even somewhat indelicately stated, then they should stay out of politics because they don't have the stomach for it.
And what's the opposite of "careless" anyway? Constantly pausing to soothe the feelings of people who shouldn't be taking things so personally in the first place?
Some of the issues discussed on DU - rape, abuse, violence - could not be more serious or dire, and yet we have people getting piled on just because their word choice isn't always cautious and they (supposedly) don't add enough disclaimers. To which I say, why don't you get over your damn self already? After all, we're not the ones with a 1 in 3 lifetime chance of being brutalized by a man, are we?
niyad
(113,348 posts)
polly7
(20,582 posts)directions, revealing facts about something.
Anyone can be straight and blunt.
The gift is being able to temper being 'straight and blunt' with even a tiny bit of concern for others and an understanding of how inflammatory accusations/statements (straight and blunt) do absolutely nothing but elicit the same in response, while the original message is lost.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I couldn't agree more 
polly7
(20,582 posts) niyad
(113,348 posts)to speak.
xulamaude
(847 posts)
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)How...interesting...that it only ever applies to women.
polly7
(20,582 posts)And it wasn't any response to a 'tone' argument, it was about being ignorant, insulting and rude and being proud of it - supposedly, a GIFT.
I think ANYONE, man or woman who treats people this way has an obvious lack of communication skill and don't give a damn about any response, because nothing anyone says after they're preached to that way matters to them anyway. It's all about shoving ignorant, hateful messages down the throat of someone they care nothing about. Here, and in real life.
Read what I responded to and get yourself a clue!
niyad
(113,348 posts)I have way too much experience with this type of discussion and its participants to "need a clue".
polly7
(20,582 posts)And the pitiful 'tone' argument had absolutely ZERO to do with claiming the right to abuse and insult and see it as some sort of gift. Most adults at least try to consider how their message will be received if they want a meaningful response. Talk to people like they're beneath you with non-stop rudeness and you get back exactly what you should.
As I said ........... get a clue.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It took him a while, but at least he was finally honest about it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4247742
xulamaude
(847 posts)Shoving messages down people's throats?
You are not reading the same thing I am then.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I've also been on the receiving end of that gift too many times to count. People who believe they have the right to say anything in any manner, and don't give a flying fuck how it affects the person they're addressing, then turn around and get pissed at the natural reply.
xulamaude
(847 posts)doesn't "give a flying fuck"?
polly7
(20,582 posts)
xulamaude
(847 posts)something a bit deeper. Like maybe certain words they use or something?
Also, I don't understand why you are winking at me.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Most people don't really need a deep explanation of how they just know.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)especially my sons. it allows them to clearly navigate thru life well defined. they do see it as a gift. and they do value and appreciate. as i do with others. and no, you are throwing in a mean. there is nothing mean about it. from the heart is never about mean. per your post i am replying to, i understand how you do not get that concept. never mean. ever.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Sorry seabeayond, I've been reading your abuse for years and watching you tear down people with your special gift. and been on the receiving end of it plenty of times.
I guess you're in CYA mode now.
Did you ever apologize for your mean (viciously fucking cruel) treatment of a member here who's private info you stole to pass around to imply she was incompetent?
Strange, how that now you're about to lose posting privileges you're so intent on rewriting history.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)being ill.
But your actions didn't affect you at all, so I can understand the glibness.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i have my pizza coming.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Every word of it is true, yet here you play victim yet again.
Unfuckingbelievable.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)Breathe, in, out in out. Can't let tone get ahead of your--points?
polly7
(20,582 posts)
pintobean
(18,101 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/125533590#post54
Take a look at the scoreboard.
The good news is, you'll have a month to spend your free time coming up with a better strategy.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Do you enjoy making derisive or belittling comments about feminists or feminists' issues? Do you think denying rape culture or patriarchy protects you from some 'taint' that lessens your masculinity?
Do you not see that you disrespect yourself first and foremost when you disrespect feminists?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Oops, I just said retard.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Holy Jesus.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)I find that hard to believe. You're just wanting to pick a fight for the sake of picking a fight.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)As for your question, which I can only assume was a snarf...no, I haven't heard that since I was very young, and I've never agreed with that.
As for the cartoon...I love Dilbert.
trumad
(41,692 posts)You never heard that before? Really?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I said I haven't heard it since I was a kid. Don't believe me - well, that's really not my problem.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I've heard it said that other people said that (2nd hand). I don't doubt it to be true. I could never judge the actual prevalence of such thought with no first hand experience. But its important to teach our children well
trumad
(41,692 posts)I see... Do a fucking Google. Sheesh!
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I've never heard it said to me directly. I have no first hand experience with anyone who has expressed that view to me.
Maybe we live in different regions or hang out with different types of groups.
niyad
(113,348 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Did you really just say that?
Holy Jesus.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)If anyone says that on DU, he or she should be tombstoned.
klook
(12,157 posts)If anybody here EVER tried to say that a rape victim "was asking for it" or some such shit, they'd have hundreds of us on their ass in nothing flat, and would be PPR'd within an hour.
The OP is preaching to the choir, and implicitly daring anybody to disagree. And of course there are the predictable responses, and very little of substance, which is why I'm hiding this thread now.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)and nobody implies they shouldn't because it's preaching to the choir.
Why do you consider this OP to be different?
niyad
(113,348 posts)how DARE we??
niyad
(113,348 posts)FACT that that absurd claim has been disproven again and again. we have endless posts denying the existence of rape culture. AND we have endless posts about "how to avoid rape" lists are really wonderful, and not putting the onus on women AT ALL. and we have endless posts about how the psa's about things like "don't be that guy", and the new one from india, are sooooo unfair to men.
what part of this do you not understand?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Has some pretty clear victim shaming, and yes on of the people doing it is now PPR'd but plenty of them are still here.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Usually couched safely in a dog whistle. Sometimes juries detect it. Sometimes they don't.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)"appropriately" if they don't want to be raped or harassed. People have argued they shouldn't drink, and just recently someone said that women shouldn't go to places he didn't think acceptable. Then I recall someone noting that a rape victim should have revenge visited upon her for reporting her alleged attacker, who was then put on trial but acquitted.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Yes, I was posting in that thread, and what I posted was that I didn't blame his supporters for defending him when her supporters were still trying to get him grounded months after the trial.
Also...did you go ahead and report me to MIRT after you asked someone to PM you those links? I know how you love that MIRT power.
xulamaude
(847 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)She resigned from MIRT and hasn't been back. 
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Not guilty means not guilty. It doesn't mean a false rape accusation. Only 3 percent of rapes end up in convictions with jail time. That doesn't mean the other 97% didn't happen. It means no one was prosecuted or found guilty. The military's record is even worse, which ANYONE would reads a newspaper or watches TV news knows.
Attacking victims like her is one of the ways in which victims are blamed and rape culture is perpetuated.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)BTW...do you still have a link to that thread? Seabeyond wanted to see it.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)but the administrators changed the rules a while back and that reduced the ambiguity in terms of longer term members since MIRt only received notifications of 6-0 hides of members with over 100 posts, as opposed to all TOS hides, as was the case when that particular post of yours was hidden. You earned that hide, which was an egregious TOS violation. So like all TOS violations, I voted to refer it upstairs. You apparently think the fact you signed up for MIRT but didn't do the job made you exempt from such things. It does not.
Rather than blaming me, perhaps you should reflect on why saying that rape prevention campaigns amounted to "haranguing men" was so offensive. The irony in such a position is that it assumes that any mention of rape is directed at all men, as though all men are rapists, something no one who designs those PSAs actually thinks. Normal people see such things and assume it is directed at rapists. And then there are others who filter the entire world through their own ego. They assume everything is about them, and if it isn't they make it about themselves. Your poutage over that one hide is getting old. I wasn't the alerter, and a jury found it every bit as offensive as I did.
To top it off, you blocked someone from your men's group who challenged you on the clearly false nature of your gossip about me. If you are going to enforce a rule that hosts should be able to gossip about other members without being called on it, you should really adjust the SOP accordingly.
That hide, however, does actually relate to the subject of this OP, since it blames rape victims for having the audacity to discuss rape in public rather than the view some seem to have that the appropriate role for rape in the public domain is as a subject of pornography for male titillation.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #88)
Name removed Message auto-removed
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Certain behavior will increase the likelihood of being raped considerably. Acknowledging this simple fact, and advising people on ways to reduce the risk of being a rape victim (or a victim of mugging, burglary, car theft, etc) is not blaming the victim. It's just common sense. It's about taking responsibility for your own safety, because you can't rely on anyone else to do it for you.
I wish some people around here could get their head around this simple concept, but I suspect they don't really want to. They'd rather use the accusation of "victim blaming" as another club to beat people around the head with.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)nada, nothing, zip, zilch...
You are a long term poster over 1000 posts, and we would have no business talking about you in at all.
I wouldn't worry about it.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)in another thread and how women like, what we deem harassment, and what they were describing as complimentary.
Even one poster told women to put on a burqa if they didn't like the attention.
Now, that is not far off from what we are discussing here, and how men felt they were victims when women pointed out they didn't like to be street harassed or leered at.
Was it rape we were discussing, no but we were discussing rape culture.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)There are some older ones where people discussed their clothing. Additionally, ever single time a rape case is brought up, a number of posters arrive to declare the perp. innocent and talk about false accusations, which means they accuse that victim of lying. That is all about blaming the victim.
niyad
(113,348 posts)being blamed. two examples just this week:
tx teen reports rape by classmate, sent to disciplinary school for "lewd and indecent behaviour".
indian woman gang-raped by two separate gangs, politician says she was a prostitute.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I could not possibly care less whether or not you believe me.
niyad
(113,348 posts)has said it to me personally."
but keep trying, one of these days, someone might believe you.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)I say true.
This is too easy. Anything more challenging?
trumad
(41,692 posts)so glad you got it....
Although you do know many do not.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)
calimary
(81,322 posts)Period. End of discussion.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Did people on this website say it was the victim's fault?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)flamebait. Think Progress just posted this...and many on Facebook are posting it as well.
Education about Rape is flame bait to you?
My God Dude.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Show me someone who posted it on DU, and I will personally beg for a tombstone. Until then, I will assume that you are just being your usual flame-baiting self who likes to insult other people on DU.
trumad
(41,692 posts)No one said it on DU. It's a God Damn poster with a terrific message.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)
Bless you and good luck in all your future endeavors.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)and nobody implies they shouldn't because we should all agree with it.
Why do you consider this OP to be different?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Don't try to be coy, it is obvious as to why some things are posted - every post has an agenda.
I am working on fixing my problems with posting though. The last couple of stories that I posted which involved women - I removed all traces of gender from my post (could not change the source article though. Most people won't even notice). The stories were interesting (one about a suicide bombing in Russia) but since the person mentioned in them was female it was best to make changes so as not to upset some folks.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)If a woman who drinks knows about the impairing effects of alcohol, having sex with her when she's drunk and cannot consent isn't rape. A jury here let that stand 3-3.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Iggo
(47,558 posts)Oh, wait...
Logical
(22,457 posts)
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)No one thinks that.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Never said they did...did I?
intaglio
(8,170 posts)TLDR perhaps? or just in denial?
trumad
(41,692 posts)I posted a fucking poster with a message that is right on. I never said a DUer said these things.
Weird ...just weird.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)With luck they'll vanish up their own fundaments one day
trumad
(41,692 posts)Reminds me of when I argue with a right winger, they say, where did you here that--- I say from different sources---they say..do you believe everything you read. ---you then walk away saddened by their stupidity.
Response to trumad (Reply #58)
Post removed
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)"what was coming to them".
I can't remember the usernames, because shortly thereafter they got what was coming to them too, aka PPRd.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)about how a rape prevention PSA that mentions the word "men" is misandrist and where you stated your views that rape prevention ads should focus on the behavior of women rather than perpetrators.
The irony is your post was based on the argument that men already know not to rape, while you then posted another thread where you asked if sex with a drunk person was okay, even though the law clearly says it is rape.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)The question is why you posted it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Are you saying -or do you actually believe- that I blame rape victims for what is done to them by rapists?
Or are you just flinging poo?
Because I think it should be clear that I do not think women ever invite rape through their actions, looks or anything.
My problem with that PARTICVULAR "PSA" was quite focused on the tone of it which I felt was not effective (as it seemed to be speaking to all men as if rape was something that lurked in the backs of every guy's mind and was basically decided on a whim: (i.e. "If you are walking down the street and see a woman, don't rape her."
That does not seem to be a real effective message as it would not alter the behavior of a rapist but DOES manage to misrepresent that nature of rape (as if it is a sort of accidental thing that just occurs to most men, like buying a bag of potato chips).
In the OP you refer to, I object to the tone of that PSA from a very limited POV and I do NOT object in general to rape PSAs and have, in fact, recommended other ones aimed at men.
So, yes, it IS disingenuous of you to point to that OP and pretend that means that I don't think rape is a problem or that I think men's "feelings" are MORE important or that I think that women are to blame.
It is the very definition of disingenuous. And yes, to try to make me look like I blame rape victims is entirely shameful.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:59 AM - Edit history (1)
As though men have nothing to do with rape. Evidently you felt appalled because for some seriously fucked up reason you thought it was saying all men were rapists, when it said no such thing. That was despite the fact the PSA was made by a men's student group at FSU. You went on to explain that appropriate PSAs focused on the behavior of victims. If it is the victims responsibility to avoid being raped, would it not then hold that the assault is her fault?
Additionally, your point that men just automatically "know" not to rape is proven false not only by studies that most rapists do not consider their actions rape but also by discussions in your own group and by you yourself that ridicule the notion that sex with someone too drunk to consent isn't wrong, "forgetting even the legal definition." Because why would the law control illegal behavior? 
Here is the "offensive" PSA
Your thread on the subject
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=11093
and your subsequent thread about sex with drunk people:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111412049
Readers can come to their own conclusions as to what is going on there.
Even taking your point on face vale that you simply think it was ineffective, who are you to judge that? What expertise do you have in the matter? Have you published research on the effectiveness of rape prevention ads? Do you have personal experience that would bear on the matter? And why is it you think it your right to tell women how they should avoid being raped? Why would you possibly imagine anyone cares what you think about the subject? Why is it that you consider your feelings about a rape prevention PSA the important thing to comment on rather than the lives of rape victims? IMO it would be in your best interest to never discuss rape again. When in a cavernous hole, stop digging.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)And I think I will decide what to post about, thanks.
The only hole I am in is the pigeon hole that you have put me in in your own mind.
But you did not answer the question: Are you saying that I blame rape victims? If you are not, stop flinging that poo at me. It is shameful and disgusting and untrue.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I will simply point out that several rape victims were HIGHLY offended by your thread.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)If I had wished to do so, I would have posted in GD as opposed to the Men's Forums where things are viewed from a perspective of what we FEEL.
You seem to want to delegitimize or prevent me from saying that I found that particular PSA insulting and crudely put. But that IS how I felt and I expected that some other men might want to discuss it.
Not everyone has the same perspective. That is one of the reasons that we have those protected groups. To allow us to speak openly without being attacked for our feelings.
If a man on an elevator gets the vibe that a woman feels he is a potential rapist and exits the elevator looking back over her shoulder, of course her feeling of safety is more important that the feelings of the man. We agree. BUT that does not mean that men can't discuss how that event made them feel hurt. Right? It is not placing one over the other to do so.
The rape PSA is the same thing. I started an OP in a group where men can discuss things about their feelings. I did so and you are trying to shame me for it AND pretend that it means that I blame rape victims.
THAT is what I find so offensive about what you are doing.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)In comparison to the point of the PSA, which is raising awareness about rape? I may feel lots of things, but it wouldn't occur to me that I should post them. There are some things I just don't get, but I know it's not appropriate for me to voice those feelings. The idea should be to engage reason in determining what one thinks is appropriate discussion for a political message board. I would think on some level that would include considering how others may be impacted by what you write.
If your group were confined to discussing issues, you would face far less scrutiny. Sadly, many of us find ourselves the topic of gossip there, as I did just today, whereas you then banned the person who sought to correct the record. I don't look in that group very often because I find most things there incredibly offensive, but on the rare occasion I do, I see members calling out feminists, sometimes by name. Juries allow you all to post any foul thing you want, and members there have taken full advantage to generate witch hunts and express their unbridled hatred for certain women, including myself. I see that as a flagrant misuse of the group function on this site, particularly since Skinner has said it isn't right to talk about banned members who can't defend themselves.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)HOF talks way more crap about people than the Men's Group does. It's not even close.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)For one thing, posts in HOF are easily hidden, while virtually nothing is hidden in the men's group. A few months back you had a member describe 95% of women as "disgusting," and even that wasn't hidden. I can't think of an OP where a member has been called out by name as you did with Tuesday Afternoon.
A while back I did a word diagram of HOF and the men's group, based on someone's prompting. It's in my journal, in fact I'll see if I can hunt them up to post them below. The men's group turned up names of several individuals, whereas no such thing appeared in the word image of HOF.
Moreover, I am not a host of HOF, so I don't control what is posted there. You, on the other hand, are a host of the Men's Group. I was a host of the Gun Control Reform Activism Group and locked the only Meta-like thread that occurred while I was hosting.
Men's Group
HOF
The contrast is clear.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)How did it go, "I'm just asking questions."?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)talk about how I found it offensive to straight people and then hold forth on what LGBT folks needed to do to avoid being bashed, I would imagine they would be upset, and with damned good reason. The difference is it wouldn't occur to me to do such a thing because I don't wish to hurt survivors of bashings or LGBT folk who fear those kinds of assaults. Then there is the fact I know fuck all about the subject, much like you on the subject of rape.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)But it is really hard for me to avoid the sense that you look at everything I do through the lens of having already decided that I am the worst creep that there is. One who blames rape victims, etc.
The fact is that you seem to think that there is only one issue. Your issue. And that it must be discussed only in they way you want it.
But it really is shameful to insinuate that I am a rape apologist.
If you can't see that, I am sorry. It's just...really bad bad behavior on your part.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)There are many, many issues discussed on this site. Some I know very little about. But if you're going to talk about something that impacts my life, I will have an opinion. Yes, I have formed an opinion of you as a result of reading thousands of posts over the past year and a half. I did not call you a rape apologist. I spoke about what I found troubling about two of your threads. If you had not insisted there was no victim blaming on this site, the issue would not have come up. You challenge people to provide evidence and then are angry when I do. I initially didn't provide links to anything but spoke in the most general terms because I didn't think it productive to point fingers at individuals, but when you and some others insisted on links and took the absence of them as evidence of the fact no such victim blaming goes on, I obliged. You will note that I also provided other links elsewhere in the thread and spoke about the issue in more general terms and how it often manifests itself.
You are right that I no longer give credence to what you say on issues of rape and gender. I've seen too much already, and when you do post something reasonable (like your current thread in GD), it appears to be in response to discussions like this. Then before long you are back to complaining about false rape allegations and misandrist rape PSAs. I've seen it many times, and it grows old. When you PMed me about how sorry you were for saying bad things about HOF members and then less than a week later posted that rant on the rape PSA and continued to talk smack about certain feminists, that underscored the issue for me.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Your behavior -such as trying to paint people as rape apologists who are NOT - is SO MUCH more offensive than anything I have ever done, that it isn't even close.
You do not know me, but your behavior towards me and others -your insinuations are absolutely appallingly disgusting.
polly7
(20,582 posts)yes they are.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I didn't try to paint you as anything. I commented about your thread and provided links to it. If you consider what I pointed to as rape apology, perhaps you should be more careful about what you post. I made no such charge, and for you to claim I did is clear distortion. But again we again get back to what really matters: you and your feelings, not the prevalence of rape or the experiences of rape victims.
niyad
(113,348 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)I didn't say that a DUer said this.
This is a brand new post from Think Progress. I pushed it here because it's fucking a powerful poster. But here comes the brigade of dudes getting all crazy because of this message.
Very strange and very weird.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Link to crazy posts please. Thanks!
Logical
(22,457 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)You don't like it put me on fucking ignore....
Fucking Jesus Christ on a Trailer Hitch.
Logical
(22,457 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Like the one about the Heisman trophy winner who wasn't prosecuted. You'll see people saying she was drunk, the guy was innocent, etc. In the Assange threads, people claim the women are liars. Denying no rape occurred is the principle way that victims are blamed. They are disbelieved and their attackers defended.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Then in the next thread they will claim no such post exists. 
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)*sigh*
niyad
(113,348 posts)post all sorts of graphics about all sorts of topics.
but, oh my f****** god, a graphic is posted that says rape victims are never responsible, and, suddenly, we have to produce links to posts saying they were.
so, I repeat, please show me in the DU tos where it says that.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)and nobody implies they shouldn't unless two DUers agree with the RW talking point.
Why do you consider this OP to be different?
polly7
(20,582 posts)xulamaude
(847 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)no shit, sherlock. I can't say that for sure.
xulamaude
(847 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It was not my fault.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)This rather comes under the heading of "painfully fucking obvious".
trumad
(41,692 posts)This poster would not exist if everyone didn't think it was obvious. It took me one Google search to find many instances of it not being obvious.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)It's not difficult to find assholes in the world, sadly.
trumad
(41,692 posts)some are closer than you think.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)True, indeed.
Thanks, trumad.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)And what's sad on a liberal board?
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)
trumad
(41,692 posts)I follow Think Progress---a terrific Progressive Web Site. They posted this message today. I said wow---that is really good. I post it on a forum that I've been part of for 13 years.
I think--- great message---really resonates.
And look what happens..... Attack Attack Attack!...by the same cast of characters.
Weird.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)Too many bizarre responses.
Personally, I think a house cleaning is in order.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Though, it might help the community if your posts didn't contain so much explicit language
trumad
(41,692 posts)you gave up on that one--- now it's my language .....
You guys fucking crack me up..
First I started by agreeing. Then I remarked that I am awaiting DUers to disagree with the OP (that rape isn't the woman's fault), because it has been alleged some DUers feel this way. No one has yet disagreed in this OP. And that's fantastic news!
mitty14u2
(1,015 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)meant to stir shit for no reason. Yipeee!
trumad
(41,692 posts)Is the message stupid? Think Progress just posted this... is it stupid they posted this?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Just as stupid as posting it here. I doubt you can find one person on either site that thinks otherwise.
But you keep on trying to pick fights its fun!
So you think the message is stupid? Dude---you better check yourself.
niyad
(113,348 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)and the town was agonizing over the future of the rapists - it was ruined, ruined, I say! "She wanted it to happen" one of the townfolks said to the press. Her parents had to flee the city because of threatening phone calls - they didn't control their daughter well enough, dontcha know! The attorney for one of the men described her as a spider - as in the spider and the fly - during the trial. She was just luring the 20 men to hold her prisoner and rape her again and again.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gang-rape-case-11-year-old-girl-texas-continues-divide-small-town-article-1.156043
It doesn't matter if she was begging them to have sex with her - at 11, she cannot consent. But that doesn't stop a whole town from blaming her instead of the guys who did it.
niyad
(113,348 posts)notice how quickly the person who said that had to contort his statement, saying that nobody had said it to him personally.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)and cannot consent in any way shape or form. But we have had so many of these cases reported on DU - the 14-year old whose rape was her own fault because she "was so mature", and all the cases where the girl goes to a friend's house or to a party with people she thinks are her friends (which is exactly what you are supposed to do to avoid being raped according to conventional wisdom) and is plied with alcohol, raped, and then has the pictures spread all over the internet, with the resultant harassment.
So many of us see how these victims are treated and learn these lessons so very, very well. And that includes opportunist rapists as well as the victims. They don't think the way they talk about the victims don't influence a rapist's calculations of risk? A boyfriend, a boyfriend's friend, the creeper in your friend group, your colleague, anyone can be a rapist - most rapists aren't ones that jump out from behind a bush. 2/3 are known to the victim. That is why these PSAs are so important - it is so important to get people to understand that the picture they have of a typical rapist and a typical victim is completely wrong! And to make them understand that when they blame the victims, even a little, for example as in "well, I wouldn't have walked around at 3 a.m. with my wallet on display" they are making it easier for rapists to rape!
niyad
(113,348 posts)in this thread, that is not the case. horrifying is, indeed, the correct word.
WowSeriously
(343 posts)
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)BTW, if you have to post something like this, then maybe you are part of the problem.
I was going to post this...
But I think I will use "trash thread" this time.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Why would a message like this get you guys so inflamed?
This is the weirdest shit I've ever seen on DU.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)arguing with Upton, trying to drag your arguments with him into other forums. Anyways, have fun with whomever you are arguing with.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Why no image to represent male rape victims?
polly7
(20,582 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Just fucking kill me.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Why just fucking kill you?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I think it would be valuable to include an image of a male to represent male rape victims as well. That subset of rape victims sometimes gets lost in the shuffle.
xulamaude
(847 posts)of 'asking for it' based upon the clothes they were/were not wearing?
trumad
(41,692 posts)Any time a message is delivered like this--- there will be the hey males are raped to comments.
Weird shit.
polly7
(20,582 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Never said they weren't.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Either you care about rape, or you don't.
trumad
(41,692 posts)You think I have have disdain for the question. Not at all.
If you have a problem with the poster and it's message---like why it did not discuss men being raped... contact them.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Nice try though.
trumad
(41,692 posts)You're making shit up.
polly7
(20,582 posts)108. LOL---
Any time a message is delivered like this--- there will be the hey males are raped to comments.
Weird shit.
trumad
(41,692 posts)that's a fact.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)The title of the the thread is 'Rape is never the victims fault'...
That should include ALL victims. Don't blame it on the graphic.
With your silly little face palm and uggg just kill me.
If you really gave a shit about ALL rape victims when male victims were brought up you would have agreed it included them.
Let me refresh your memory about our very own DU'er that was brave enough to share HIS story with us...wonder how he'd feel about your 'uuggg just kill me comment'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024144944
trumad
(41,692 posts)Really--- You guys are trying way to damn hard.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)just who the fuck are you referring to? Who is 'you guys'?
Step up and define you guys. Course you seem to like one liners and throwing the around the word fuck.
So do tell who the fuck is 'you guys'
I stand by my post, which has more substance than everything you posted in this thread--COMBINED.
Mrs Guy.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)If he'd been serious about rape, he'd not be so dismissive of all those who are not women and are also raped in increasingly huge numbers. It was a good question. It didn't deserve that kind of response.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Good lord!
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)For example:
Underage students taken advantage of by female teachers where society tells the boy he's supposed to enjoy it.
Or men who are in prison are told they deserve to be raped.
xulamaude
(847 posts)Look at the graphic again.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Who claim that they would have welcomed such "attentions" when they were the victim's age. The women who object are told that we do not understand what it is like for boys that age, who want "it" all the time.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Or is it about the message: Rape is never the victim's fault.
Be they male/female, dressed/undressed, etc.
xulamaude
(847 posts)is especially important to this particular graphic.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)My personal take is that the message is a more general one. I think it would have been good to include an image of a male as well.
xulamaude
(847 posts)because they were naked?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Especially in the context of date rape. It is assumed that if someone is willing to go so far, then they are willing to go all the way even if they say they don't want to. This occurs regardless of the victim's gender.
xulamaude
(847 posts)in a (male) homosexual context?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It is my understanding that date rape is the most common form of rape regardless of victim's gender.
xulamaude
(847 posts)(roughly) the same thing trumad did, which is if you see a need for an altering of the graphic to contact ThinkProgress about it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Presumably, then, it's ok to make comments or observations about it here. Isn't that the point of a discussion forum?
Anyway, no offense meant - it was just something that occurred to me when I saw the graphic.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Appear to see themselves as pretty slick, I can even picture them giggling like little school girls in front of their keyboards..... DU can get frustrating but it is no different then real life other then some are more fearful of letting others know of their obvious failings...
Perfect OP by the way, only needed recommendations nothing else for the message was more than clear... Obvious it did more than touch some personally....
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Rape is wrong regardless of the victim's gender
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Men raped in prison...people cheer.
Boys raped by female teachers...people cheer and say how lucky the boy is.
Boys raped by the clergy...it gets swept under the rug.
Boys raped by college football coaches....it gets swept under the rug.
But according to some here...rape is only a female problem.
xulamaude
(847 posts)Who exactly are these "people"?
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Check internet message boards on news stories concerning female teachers raping male students.
The Catholic Church and Penn State swept male rape under the rug.
Everyone in America loves making jokes on prison rape.
xulamaude
(847 posts)you say "people". Do you mean a majority of women or a majority of men or do you think it's pretty even?
Also, "everyone"? I don't make jokes about any kind of rape nor do I tolerate them from others.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)seabeyond (91,446 posts) Response to xulamaude (Reply #106)
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:20 PM
109. women dont rape men. nt
That was posted to you, but you didn't respond.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Where did that factoid come from....pulled right out of....
thin air
Wow, that was like from two weeks ago.
Did I do something against the rules by not responding?
In the meantime let me look at the context...
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)much like linking to a thread a whole two weeks old, on the same subject as the current thread, isn't against a rule. It's just helpful if you want to later claim intolerance for rape-culture speech. Especially when the speech in question was specifically posted to you.
HTH.
xulamaude
(847 posts)you provided I see that I did not respond to that because I was pretty sure seabeyond meant to reply to Major Nikon and that was at 1:20 am my time.
Then at 1:30 my time Beyond the Aegis responds to seabeyond stating that women do in fact rape men.
Then at 1:33 my time seabeyond replies:
Last edited Tue Dec 17, 2013, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)
you got me
98.8% of forcible rapes we committed by men.
http://conversationsonthefringe.com/2011/01/05/violence-is-a-male-problem-part-1-of-2/
(I don't know how to link to it properly...)
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4190174
LadyHawkAZ (4,825 posts)
306. Did you bother to check the FBI reporting standard??
This was the reporting standard for the 2010-2011 stats you quoted:The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Rapes by force and attempts or assaults to rape, regardless of the age of the victim, are included. Statutory offenses (no force used—victim under age of consent) are excluded.
Shocker: the majority of people raping women, since that was the sole reporting standard at the time, in 2010 were men! It didn't change until December of 2011, when it changed to this:"Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."
which still pretty much just covers male aggressors, unless she stops to shove something in him.
~Alternately, you can click "link here" and follow the same c/p procedure, which allows people to view the link in context, but will also require time for the thread to load.
My apologies. I didn't realize you don't do call outs if someone else has already done so. You must not post much, if that's the case.
xulamaude
(847 posts)I think...
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Dash87
(3,220 posts)Saying that a rape victim is "lucky" is disgusting and obnoxious. Saying the same thing about a little girl would earn a perma-ban off of here and the media. There should be the same standard when talking about little boys as little girls, as rape for one is not better/worse than the other.
We have a long way to go. Our attitudes about sex are twisted.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)To start, this is addressing the specific issue of "Look at what she was wearing, she was asking for it" which is not something that applies to men, Men can wear anything anywhere and not have to worry about sexual assault.
Second, why don't you make an OP about it if it's something that worries you so much that you have to bring it up every time the topic comes up?
C: This is a powerful and good graphic that many here could share with others they know to help get it's message out, it isn't necessarily direct at people here, but it is for us to spread, or maybe it's the missing words we couldn't come up with.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What are you talking about? This is my first such comment. I saw the image and thought it ought to include an image of a male. It seems not just to be addressing the issue of clothing. The message is that rape is never the victim's fault.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)The message is about what the victim is wearing, as that is what is portrayed in the image. It is specifically discussing female rape as well (as is shown by showing women) Sometimes statements are made to/for/by specific groups and for men to jump in every time a woman talks about rape to say "It happens to men too!" is not adding to the discussion, it is shutting it down, and grabbing the spotlight about a women's issue and making it about men.
Yes, Men get raped. It is a bad thing and never OK, but it is a separate issue from women getting raped, as men aren't sexualised by their very existence, and don't have to fight for their right every step of the way, and don't have to take insurance against getting raped out in Michigan, and don't have to travel to another state to get an abortion from being raped, and so on and so on.
This is to a specific issue, if you want another issue addressed make an OP, contact Think Progress and talk to them about a campaign idea that raises awareness of male rape.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)However, I do think the message of the poster is about more than what the victim is wearing. I believe the message is that Rape is never the victim's fault. I think it could have been valuable to include a male image as well, but I recognize that is just my perspective. I did not mean to upset/anger anyone - just sharing an observation.
trumad
(41,692 posts)they feel better about evening the playing field.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It was just a single (polite) question based on an observation about the graphic. I am not understanding the hostile reaction.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)and add in a link to Think Progress and it's posting of the image.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)"Men can wear anything anywhere and not have to worry about sexual assault."
As a gay man, I was actually relieved to gain a bit of weight so as to be less of a target of sexual assault (the most common being aggressive fondling of my ass). Clothing plays a big role in that.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)The rest of my comments still stand.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)There are millions of gay men that experience this. Who are you to minimize it like that?
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)This is a campaign for Women, that is raising awareness that what she was wearing is not a valid excuse, as it is often used as.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)what the hell?
Yeah, cuz we can only talk about one kind of rape at a time. WTF is wrong with people. 
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)If people were honestly interested in helping out the plight of men in this circumstance then they would be out of promoting their cause instead of chiming in on discussions about women's issues.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)gum. Why does it have to be one or the other.
I'm honestly interested in helping BOTH men and women, and do so in real life.
Often times issues intersect each other, one helps/hurts the other.
I'm a woman that has no problem talking about men's issues. Especially here since the issue is RAPE which knows no gender. You should know that.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)So their experiences can be dismissed outright.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)Which advocates for men AND women.
You are coming across as very small and petty. Plus you're assuming things about people you don't know.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Or do you think gay men don't get raped? On dates, because they were drunk, because they were in a pub, because they were dressed 'provocative'. The victim shaming is the same.
Throw in stigma, homophobia, outright refusal to accept that it happens, or insistence that it's 'rare'. Never mind how many victims never report it because of the reasons above.
Think about it.
FYI, I am a hetero woman.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)"Men can wear anything anywhere and not have to worry about sexual assault."
I pointed out that that is wrong. Then you had to go and belittle the sexual assault experiences of every gay men. Might want to do a bit of introspection.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)women don't like their ass grabbed by strangers I would imagine many me don't either.
I think with a male's anatomy it's easy for aggressive grabbing around 'front' as well.
We don't 'cup' there the same way as a man so I would imagine walking through a crowded bar could be down right dangerous in that regard.
Women have their concerns with having their breasts accidentally on purpose bumped grabbed and smushed.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I thought it was making a broader point, i.e. Rape is never the victim's fault.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)It's the concept that rape is a victim's fault because of what she was wearing. You can tell that's the intended meaning of the poster b/c it shows women wearing different clothes types (or none). It wouldn't make sense to include men b/c men are never blamed for their rapes b/c of what they're wearing.
Of course we all care about male rape and it's just as horrible, but that's out of the scope of this thread.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)RAINN states that 44% f sexual assault victims are under 18, which would make them a much more natural candidate to be included in the line up than men, who make up 3% of the victims...were it not for the fact that this poster was about how women are blamed for their rapes because of the way they dress.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)xulamaude
(847 posts)why no male figures were included in the graphic....
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Others have expressed similar sentiments. Why does that observation rub you the wrong way? I truly don't understand and am trying to.
xulamaude
(847 posts)hours ago now and have already gone through it with you.
So you know my take on it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Reading posts out of order, I guess. Apologies for the confusion!
trumad
(41,692 posts)Fly trap.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)The impending lockout is really upsetting a few folks.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)You need to post a poll.
treestar
(82,383 posts)No type of dress or lack thereof is any excuse.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Because "Education about rape" as you put it is very obviously something DU needs more of, and it needs more of it on a regular basis. From what I've seen, not very many DUers are aware of the concept advanced by the poster. I mean we've all seen the countless posts here claiming that female victims of rape were somehow at fault, right?
I'm curious though, as are others, why it doesn't address male victims of rape and whether they were or were not at fault.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4247462
treestar
(82,383 posts)of rape. Though I've never heard it said of them that they brought it on by some action of their own.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)But it does not appear that men could dress in a certain way, or be in a place they should not, etc.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)That can and does happen.
trumad
(41,692 posts)I don't know--- Why don't you go find the person who designed it and ask them. I just think the message is powerful and should be displayed.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Are you being sarcastic? I haven't
trumad
(41,692 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)He should be back under 5 hidden posts around 1/20 (barring any hidden posts between now and 1/6).
So after a short break, he can go back to educating us.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)GD?
Anyone want to give odds?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And, I can see no reason for it.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)One that needs to be repeated, until no victim is ever made to feel that it is their fault because they dressed a certain way, acted a certain way ....
intaglio
(8,170 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022481541#post5 this last is egregious so I'll quote it,
If I get robbed in the middle of the night, does it make it my fault that I got robbed because I forgot to lock the door? Of course not. The robber is the one that broke the law. However, if that door was locked, he might have went on to the next house or at least made it more difficult for him to get in. And that's why there is a lock on the door. Prevention. I take away the robber's opportunity by locking that door. And that's what you teach women with rape prevention and self-defense. You are taking away the rapist's opportunity.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022481541#post293
And of course Bonobo's own posts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022481541#post9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022481541#post17
Then there are the plain hateful from short term posters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2092034
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Jesus..
Fine... Don't take any precautions. I don't care. It's your life!
You think you live in a perfect world? There is always going to be crime in this world. You are never going to be able to stop that. No one is saying it's the victim's fault. But a person, ANY PERSON, can do things to protect themselves from people in this world that want to do them harm for whatever reason.
I have a security system on my house. Why? Because people out there may want to break into my house. Is it my fault if someone does? NO! Absolutely not. But the fact I took that precaution helps prevent the crime.
Why some of you twist this prevention into victim-shaming is absolutely mind-boggling!!!!! Are you suggesting we don't teach anyone self defense or just being aware of their surroundings? I don't understand what your point is.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's not quite the same. When it comes to rape, men don't seem to be warned on preventing it.
It's unique to the subject of female victims of rape that there are words directed to their clothing, where they are, etc. As general advice for either sex against assault or crime in general, it's all quite acceptable, just for women/rape it crosses over a line where the advisor is telling them they aren't free to dress as they please, go where they want, and that situation is just fine.
xulamaude
(847 posts)And who exactly is perpetrating the vast majority of these crimes, especially rape?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)And it is a problem. Which is why you have been banned so many times.
xulamaude
(847 posts)This is at least the second time you've brought this up.
Even though I wasn't addressing you I will say that I do have a problem with folks using "people" in instances where I have seen with my own eyes that it is clearly a majority of men doing whatever or clearly a majority of women doing whatever.
And I wanted to know if the person I was/am addressing had some input on that.
If you don't mind, of course.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But it's still overwhelmingly men who commit murder and rape, and who seriously injure their partners in "domestic incidents." I don't see how pointing that out is blaming all men - I'm a man, and I don't take it that way at all.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)A person cannot control the actions of a criminal, but they can try to protect themselves by taking certain measures.
For example, I did not want to be beaten up in a mugging, so I trained in self-defense.
A woman who does not want to be raped can take certain measures to increase her likelihood of not being raped.
Now, IF You think that encouraging people to protect themselves is the same as BLAMING them, you really need to check yourself.
And that is the bottom line. You have gone beyond rationality if you think that is blaming the victim. Not sure what else to say.
niyad
(113,348 posts)that there is no rape culture. and I see the usual suspects showed up right on schedule.
Sister Militant
AiC, PHD, remdi95
Blessed Order of the Sisters of Perpetual Outrage
retread
(3,762 posts)the same names yelping every time this particular rock is tossed.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)The idea that this message would get people upset is a sign of sickness.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)
libodem
(19,288 posts)Thanks for sharing. I just had a primer on how funny this rape culture thing is over in the video forum. I still don't get it. Rape at knife point, on a dark, street, at 3am, by a psycho stranger, pianning to hurt you in the most intimate way possible. A big joke, in this guys imagination?
Even if he is reversing roles to make a point is this rape cultue something you join like drug culture or is it like owning a Harley-Davidson and buying a fancy jacket? Who are these guys in the dark alleys with knives and guns waiting around the dumpsters, homeless dudes? Living the dream rape lifestyle. Or are they in a Rapist Union? Is it organized? Or do these guys just join some rape club and figure out a better way to corner victims?
I think it might be psycho violence culture but I'm sure that's an insult to the mentally unhinged.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am 100% for the bad language but I am a rape victim and cannot abide stupidity.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I don't understand why people are so upset with this image being posted.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Some people have no consideration.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Response to trumad (Original post)
Post removed
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)niyad
(113,348 posts)in the least surprising.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)or so they say.....
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You're just flame-baiting, making shit up and generally acting like a child.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Ya see---I use to use words like pussy, bitch, etc..... I even would make comments like the one you linked to... but a funny thing happened along the way.... I evolved into a person that stopped saying that kind of shit ....
DU has changed me in many ways...... Prison rape---not funny--- Rape of men---not funny.....
But god fucking damn it------ I posted a God Damn fucking poster that Think Progress posted today because the message is powerful and to the point.
You tell me----what the fuck is wrong with that?
The 13 years that I've been here I've never seen anything as weird as this... never. A clan of guys coming into a thread with a strong message about rape and fighting me with everything that they have.
What the fuck is going on here?
xulamaude
(847 posts)Thank you.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I thought you said in Post #106 it was a fly trap.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4247742
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Where you call your OP a fly trap? I think this thread has gone pretty much as you expected. After all, you've been here 13 years. You've learned things.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)This says, believe it or not, a lot about how you view the gender role situation and how you see yourself as a "real man".
It is belittling and it furthers the gender role prisons that exist.
You come to this from a "White Knight" position, which is to say a condescending one in which you think that women require brave knights to ride to their aid.
That, Truman, is not the same as being a feminist.
xulamaude
(847 posts)and why on earth would you bring that up seeing as how nobody here has anything to do with MRAs?
I'm pretty sure that no one thinks (except perhaps you and some others) trumad is riding to our aid.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)curiosity may be a better word, or maybe they just want to participate in a thread that takes 74 seconds to load
Regardless, Being the day that it is, I say this calls for!
Wait for it!!!!!
Greatness that is!!!
BAM!
Shake that BOOTY! 
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Deep13
(39,154 posts)Unlike homicide, there is no justification similar to self-defense, for example, for rape.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)eom
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)teaching the rapist. as bonobos link states, men/boys do not know the obvious, what rape is and need to be taught.
disconnect anyone?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024248617
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Obvious is obvious. It's not a disconnect, it's about the motives of the posters.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)or any of the guys or anything else. it is a damn psa. that is it. no more. say yea, or ignore. that simple.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:20 AM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024243969#post169PassingFair
(22,434 posts)I get so confused.
pintobean
(18,101 posts) one_voice
(20,043 posts)is there a 'disconnect' in this video. This PSA that assumes to 'tell' men when not to rape? Or is this different and I'm missing how. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024247317#post258
Also in Bonobo OP there's this
helpful to women.
College is a whole new world for kids--where often there is a lot of drinking and kids don't always make the most responsible choices. We hope they do but they don't always. NOTHING wrong with driving home the message BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY and to which ever gender.
My son is going to graduate college next month my daughter made through safely already, but I've heard the stories, as my daughter was a dorm monitor. Don't knock a message you never know who you'll reach and who you might save from heart ache.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i think too often our kids are hearing what girls need to do to avoid rape. we on du hear plenty addressing the rapist. not so much in average every day life. i think this will be duh for many. and maybe not actually getting the point to the rapist, but lightbulb for many of the kids that have not thought it thru and do not have parents that have conversation with them. switching from what the victim needs to do to prevent rape, to the duh... do not rape.
yes, i think it is good for our youth. having them think ahead, prior to the moment they see a peer behaving in a manner that should be called out. the have already thought it thru and easier to step up. they are prepared.
awareness. i am all for preparing our kids with info so they are better equipped when stepping out the door.
look. we had like two or three men just a couple days ago saying the way a girl dresses is her wanting certain attention. it wasnt conversation of rape, but the same dotted line. grown men on du. as much as we are think it is a duh, media and society are conditioning us otherwise. so it is not such a given in message. for one light bulb, that is good enough for me and makes it worth it.
do you know, we have even had a few men state that it was biological to rape. of course it was mens job to contain that urge. with all the zillion of men lack this "urge" i would think no one thought this way, but heard that not long ago. tells me these things need to be stated often and everywhere.
i agree with bonobos article that i think the biggest rape prevention would be prosecution, conviction, and harsh sentencing for guilty.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)as the the difference. You like a video that 'advises' men how not to rape, but dislike an article that 'advises' men how not to rape. Guess it makes sense to you. I'm not getting into a slug fest with you over this. To me they're the same thing.
A lot of kids think sloppy drunk sex is ok. If the sloppy drunk person isn't specifically saying stop--then it's a-ok as far as they're concerned.
I don't see anything wrong with telling college aged women if a guy forces you to have sex it was still rape doesn't matter if you're drunk--another thing the article points out. A lot of grown women are not sure about this. I think we agree on this.
You're always going to have a few idiots saying stupid things. It could have been trolls here for the very purpose of stirring shit up. I don't know cuz I wasn't in that thread. But those are two different things, Bonos thread is specifically about college and how to better help that situation.
I think there is something wrong with people that rape just like there is something wrong with people that kill, torture etc. You don't do that kind of shit and are normal.
Agree with the last sentence.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)read things into posts... so let me try to be more clear.
this OP is address the rapist.
bonobos piece is address the rapist.
men on this thread is upset with this psa.
it is saying the same as bonobos.
that would be the disconnect i refer to. why are people bothered in this thread? silly
i agree with your post i am replying to. i thought i said the same thing to you.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)disconnect reference. Completely. My mistake.
I rec'd this thread, cuz I agreed with the image, though there were things in the thread I disagreed with. But that will happen.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I know you talk often of your sons and the implication that you are a man-hater strikes directly at your love for them as a mother.
Similarly, I have a 19-year old daughter who is an incredibly strong woman and a fierce advocate for equal rights in word and deed.
The idea that some women here accuse me of being a rape apologist and a misogynist is so far out there and so inaccurate that it would leave her head spinning.
The truth is that we have let each other get into each other's skin to the point to which we have said things we do not mean just to irritate. You can deny it if you wish. But that is just part of it. The other part is that people on the other side have twisted words to make us look as bad as possible in order to bolster their own positions.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)today and yesterday, i actually connected with more than a few through these conversations. i agree.
there are areas we have strong differing views. that simple. in some areas. not so much in a lot of areas.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)And try to listen more.
I can do that.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
again, i agree. i think that is a good idea, all the way around.
thanks bonobo
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Always trying to win. Jeezus.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Yet you continue to insist I did. I find it odd that you insist on putting on yourself something I did not charge.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You did not call me a rape apologist. Thank you.
Maybe we will start the New Year better. Please enjoy yours.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)In that article?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is. trumad put this up and people are bothered by it thru out this thread. to the point of ridiculous. and not the first time thee has been this reaction to a mere psa being put in gd. you put up an informative piece on rape, addressing the rapist. which is comparable to this Op. that article i feel backs this Op and there should be no problem witht he Op any more than the article you put up.
my point has nothing to do with you or what you think.
egduj
(805 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I thought I would finish that for you.
You said nothing related to the OP and just went back and forth making personal accusations against a member.
That behavior is not tolerated.
But, if you like, I will be happy to reinstate your privileges if you can avoid such personal attacks in the future.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)BTW host to host. He locked your thread based on the fact it went in a direction he did not like. You know the truth. Please inform your fellow hosts of that group you do not lock a thread based on responses.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You behaved badly in that thread and harassed a member in a very personal and accusatory way. His feeling of being oppressed or not oppressed were not relevant to my decision to giving you a cooling off period.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)He got the truth and I found myself banned for being honest.
I bhim0ht it to skinner and I accept his judgement.
I will in noway shape or form ask you to reinstate me. I did nothing wrong. I was banned for telling the truth and it was not handled well.
I still wish the best for you and him.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I think a cooling off period was warranted and that is within my responsibilities as host.
Your posting privileges will be reinstated at the start of the new year.
In the future, please try to stick to topics instead of making personal attacks and there won't be a problem.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Do not expect me to ask to be reinstated to your oh poor men group.
That being said skinner may or may not aaddress it in ata. IF he says I was wrong I accept that.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Sort of says it all, doesn't it?
In any case, I emailed our private mail correspondence to Skinner as I have nothing to hide.
You WILL be removed from the blocked members group whether you ask or not since it was only meant as a cooling off period.
The fact that Jeff locked the thread, I interpreted as being an attempt to prevent you from further attacks and that is why I reacted as strongly as I did.
BTW, I do not know if you are a man or woman and it is irrelevant to me. I never looked and I do not care on sway or another.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You and I have nothing to hide.
You want me too cool off I accept that but was not wrong in anything I said in that thread and it was evident in the fact Jeff had to close the discussion down. As a host I have never done that. All he proved was he could not handle me.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I have always found you to be exceptionally polite and well-spoken.
That is why I was taken aback.
But the "Oh poor men group" comment does not fill me with confidence that you feel men have a right to discuss their feelings and perspectives on the difficulties and stresses we feel the need to discuss in our personal lives.
Men are not, generally speaking, victimized in many institutional ways (but there are SOME), but that does not mean that we do not have the need to discuss our own feelings and perspectives and the "poor, poor men. waaah waaah." meme is not particularly admirable.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I ask no action be taken. I respect it is your choice to give me a time out. You are wrong but that is your choice.
My poor men comment is how I and many here see your group.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)For me.
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)so empowering a person with such knowledge to be on guard and look for the signs is imperative. But yes some do look at things from only one lens and miss a lot of important information from the other lens.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)No one brings rape upon themselves by their actions or dress. Nobody ever asks to be raped. Rape is never the victims fault.
And before someone feels the urge to tell me about their 'rape' sex in the bedroom with the wife - fuck off. That is consensual sex and you know it.
marble falls
(57,111 posts)to tell people rape is never the victim's fault, its a shame people needed to told this. Thanks for posting it.
Its a shame the trolls needed to hijack the thread. Its a shame you need to leave. Makes me a little angry.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)No woman should feel the fear of a potential sexual assault based on the clothing they are wearing (or not wearing).
The idea that there are puritanical shitheads out there that profess otherwise in beyond ridiculous.
fbc
(1,668 posts)or car-jack people because of the car they are driving.
There should be no difference with rape.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts) 
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Usually stuff this obvious sinks quickly with a few 'k&r' or '+1'
xulamaude
(847 posts)1. trumad posted it
2. the graphic does not depict any men (dressed or undressed)
3. RAPE!!1! I DON"T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT RAPE!!1!! NOT ALL MEN RAPE!!!!1!11!
4. DU feminists (and dudes like trumad) are "bullies" and GD hogs who should "stay in HOF"
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Seems obvious that the (over) reaction to something as self evident and progressive as the OP illustrates the very thing that some folks are trying to deny. Not in any way a typical DU response to something that everyone agrees on.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)and the current crap-fest in GD, I think a lot of people strongly suspected that this was what the OP ended up admitting to in post #106.
polly7
(20,582 posts)106. Fly trap my friend..
Fly trap.
Discussion of rape shouldn't be used as a 'fly trap' for someone's personal satisfaction, that's just sad.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)in the HOF safe haven group. Makes ya wonder - why there?
They're already talking about being suspicious of one member who posted a reply.
kiva
(4,373 posts)a goodbye in a group where all of his/her friends can't participate and share fond memories and urge him/her not to leave.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)and the outright dismissal of our opinions -quite rudely in fact. All under the guise of fighting for women--my question is; what women, because it's quite apparent, that any woman that questions or has a differing opinion is thrown right up under that bus and run right the fuck over.
Sorry for using the under the bus metaphor.
'Fly Trap'
polly7
(20,582 posts)There was a thread where three of us shared our own stories, the assaults, broken bones, healing the physical and emotional injuries. We were tossed aside like nobody's business and pretty much laughed at because we happened to share an opinion that differed with that of the experts. Don't kid yourself, women are not all equal here. Which is why I don't take much of it seriously anymore.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and felt they were being dismissed. i also remember women apologized to you gals.
that was a heartbreaking thread for a lot of women concerned. very emotional for all.
i would hope we could be patient and accepting off all in that situation, were personal experience was shooting off triggers all over the place.
it was a sad time for many women on du.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Omfg, I can't believe you said that.
Edit to add: I'm not sure why you're trying to rewrite history, but I've got a good memory, and a long one. So don't even bother trying that crap with me.
I can't believe your nerve. It sickens me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Seriously, try it on someone who hasn't dealt with your insults and crap.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)it was a tough and painful time for a lot of woman. lots. many.
it isnt a subject to take lightly nor be offensive about
polly7
(20,582 posts)Do you actually think you're talking to someone who doesn't know EXACTLY how it feels?
It was, and is, a tough, painful time for many, yet some of us were called rape-apologists and all sorts of ugly shit right on that very fucking thread by you and yours!
Don't bullshit me seabeyond, I've watched you in action hurting and bullying others and laughing your ass off over it, and been the recipient of the same, waaaay to long.
Hilarious!!!!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)dismissing other womens experience with rape. it was wrong. and i started posting to you women and the others that your experience is as valid and we need to respect each and every one of our own ways of handling the experience. i know at least a couple women later apologized. it was wrong at the time. each experience is our own. it should be respected. that simple. it was about the hardest week women experienced here on du. for so many women. and the three of you were part of the pain.
now. i am done.
polly7
(20,582 posts)because not a single word you've just said was stated in that thread.
And NO, you've never said a word to me about ANY experience of mine, thank god for that, too, because it would have been just as fake then as your fantasy claims are right here. What a complete load of bullshit.
Btw ...... apologized to the other woman yet for stealing her very private information to pass around in pm to make her known as 'incapable'? How about for insisting on the right to call women your sexist crap after being told to stop - then laughing about it - crap that would have had any man ppr'd?
I absolutely love how you're trying to rewrite history, but next time, use someone who doesn't know better.
Good that you're done, because this just gets more sickening by the minute.
And by the way ......... I've never minimized the suffering of any human being in my life and over many YEARS have helped victims, those in shelters, those in need of emergency treatment and basic volunteering any way I could. What the fuck have you done besides insult and demean other women here day after day, year after year?
So you can take your completely made up bullshit above, and shove it straight up your ass! And I don't give a shit if I'm kicked straight off for it. I HATE your lies.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)This op has unfairly attacked me before. Extremely aggressive in their behavior. Heavily intoxicated. At the same time I have also enjoyed many of their ops. And so you know, I really don't like the way this poster uses women to further their agenda. The op clearly has a knight in shining armor complex. This has become clear reading throughout the years and the unbelievable change they have made on certain issues. Often it is clearly disingenuous. They do it very regularly.
I just think it would have been much better to simply k&r this and say great image. Move on from there. The only reason this person is doing this is because they are about to be forced into a time out. This poster and his ego must go out on his own terms. Everyone seems to be playing his game, which is what he is all about here. Always has been. K&R, and sweet dreams Trumad. That is how to do this without feeding his ego.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)Nobody truly leaves this joint---not even the tombstoners. It's a good read and can be hilarious at times.
So don't get all worked up with these grandiose announcements members leaving or resigning from DU--- it's happened hundreds of times here on DU and will happen hundreds of more times.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6116574&mesg_id=6116574
We already miss you, tru, even though we will give you crap when you get back!!
boston bean
(36,221 posts)That might make it a bit different.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Wanting protection from comments like he has posted? I wonder what the old trumad would have thought of that.
All I can do is shake my head and say WOW.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Lately it seems like everything is upside down. When I saw his gbcw in your group, I laughed out loud, though.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Response to Reply #3
6. LOL---Now you're a tough guy
If you want to take on this ex 82nd Airborne ex boxer.... then bring it.
Any place---any time. I mean that...
Oh--and bring Upton for back up.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=215&topic_id=88457&mesg_id=88484
Now, he's gone to HOF to say goodbye.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)I'm nowhere near where I want to be. I have no pity for people who can't take what they dish out.
Skinner said there were seven people that were going to be suspended for too many hidden posts. There may be more than that now. I only see two people whining about it and having a pity party. The two that have been the most abusive to fellow DUers for the longest time.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Do not pay attention to your detractors.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)DU has gone well and truly around the bend.
Thanks trumad... it's a good graphic.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Load it up in the morning at work and skim it for the next couple of hours.
There's been a bunch of them the last couple of weeks because of the holidays. And all the same players are here, thread after thread after thread. Saying the same things. Yelling at each other in the same way (strongly, comically, snidely, etc).
Wonderful holiday entertainment.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)But later posting that this is a 'fly trap' pretty much belittles the importance of the issue. Using that graphic for some sort of message board game isn't admirable, it's an asshat move.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)That wouldn't really apply to men. I think that instead, there should have been a poster that addresses myths about other victims of rape, including men, such as men can't be raped, that men can't be raped by women, and that men are immune to rape due to their size and strength, for example. Those are myths that do immense harm to male victims, and the reasons why their rapes are pushed aside, not because they were dressed provocatively.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I am absolutely positive the same shit gets piled on some of the victims.
Just because we rarely hear about male rape, doesn't mean it's rare.
Just because we as heterosexuals don't think there are similarities between two, doesn't mean there are none.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Since I'm cis female, I don't really know whether gay male rape victims get that same blame. If they do, definitely they should be represented.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)gay man also dress 'sexy' and 'provocative'.
When it comes to rapists, there is no difference how they think.
When it comes to victim blaming I bet the same shit gets thrown at victims.
'She shouldn't have worn that skirt! She was asking for it!' is the same as 'He shouldn't have worn those tight shorts! He was asking for it!'
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)As a gay man, I sure as shit get sick of all the "X doesn't happen to men" pronouncements (like those all over this thread).
It makes me sick when I read post after post after post casually dismissing male rape like it doesn't really matter because it's 'rare' and 'mostly happens in prison'.
Never mind how massively under-reported this is because of the attitudes like the ones above, because of the horrible stigma attached to it, because of the institutionalised homophobia of our 'human' society.
I don't think I could ever forget some of the vicious shit thrown at our own gay DUer who posted about his rape.
Thanks x 2.
And I'm not sure I even want to see that thread you're talking about (the gay rape one)...
Most of that thread is solid support. Unfortunately there are some posters that made me sick. Made lots of other people sick too, not just me.
There are lots of good people around, unfortunately a hell of a lot of them are wearing heteronormative blinders when it comes to topics like rape or domestic abuse.
kcr
(15,317 posts)That shows the real reason for the post! bzzzz Our existence! BZZZZZZ!!!!! But everyone on DU agreeszzzZZZZ
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)This poster is aimed towards bystanders, those who haven't been raped and who haven't raped.
Pretty much all campaigns against rape until recently have been aimed towards women. It has been educational, 'what they can do to prevent rape' kind of stuff. The numbers of rape has declined since the 1970s....but not more than any other crime, so there's no reason to believe that those kinds of campaign had much effect. For many of us, it is part of how we are raised to be told what we mustn't do, in case we are raped. Trying to direct campaigns towards bystanders, acquaintances and friends of rapists, and others is a new strategy. If culture becomes hostile towards the 'what did you wear (meaning, did you tempt him into raping you)' meme, reporting rape, and stopping rapists from grooming their victims will become easier. Rape perpetrated by acquaintances is often presaged by boundary violating behavior such as pressuring the victim to drink (why not have just one more drink, don't be such a prude), to accept touch when they don't want to (I am just giving you a massage, I'm just trying to be nice,) to go home with the perpetrator when the victim is drunk. Rapists look for easy targets. They look for targets that aren't as capable at standing up for themselves - something our culture teaches girls especially not to do.
The teaching of women (and men) how to avoid being raped continues unabated - now we must add to that changing our culture, so it becomes unacceptable to blame how a victim is dressed, or whether they were at a bar, and we must teach everyone that they have a responsibility, especially in environments like colleges, where 1 out of every 40 female students is raped in every academic year, that they can do something to stop rape. A good source is the blog post I've linked to below.
http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/cockblocking-rapists-is-a-moral-obligation-or-how-to-stop-rape-right-now/
Response to KitSileya (Reply #424)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Lunacee_2013
(529 posts)or that it turned into a flame war. I can't understand why anti-rape threads posted in GD almost always turn out this way. It's not difficult to avoid committing rape. No means no, don't mess with someone who's passed-out, and if you're unsure, just ask! And unless you get a "yes", STOP! It's as simple as that.
