If I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow....

[Jesus Malverde]

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2014, 03:59 PM - Edit history (2)

Woody will admit now only to "dating around" and living with girls for stretches ranging from "two days to two weeks—if you call that living together." Could he possibly have mellowed from the days when his movies rated horniness as a human malaise second only to bubonic plague? "I try to have sex only with women I like a lot," Woody explains solemnly. "Otherwise I find it fairly mechanical." (He has little interest in family life: "It's no accomplishment to have or raise kids. Any fool can do it.&quot

He goes on: "I'm open-minded about sex. I'm not above reproach; if anything, I'm below reproach. I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

"love nest" w/ 12 yo

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20066950,00.html

[1000words]

1. Really?

He's a comedian. He was doing his schtick.

This is shameful.

[magical thyme]

67. a 40 year old with 20 year olds is a joke.

A 40 year old with 12 years olds is a rapist.

And making a joke about being perceived as a rapist...and then finishing that quote with "I admit it" is creepy.

And doing all the above years before being accused of child molestation while seducing the teenage daughter of your "significant other" is almost prescient.

[aquart]

75. Soon Yi gets younger every time the tale is told.

What interests me is the tell tale sign that something was up was that Soon Yi started "going out." It was that unusual for a young woman in that age range to GO OUT? No red flags for anyone?

[magical thyme]

81. I remembered it a 17, but per wiki, she was 19

"In 1991, when the relationship began, Allen was 56 and Previn around 19."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen

No, not unusual for a 19 year old -- or a 17 year old -- to be dating.

But dating a man 3 times your age?

[msanthrope]

88. Actually...she was 19 or 21. nt

[Ikonoklast]

162. Mia Farrow was 19 when she met Frank Sinatra.

She married him at age 21.

Sinatra was 50.

[Egalitarian Thug]

184. Heather Harlan was 50 years younger than Tony Randall when she married him.

But Tony Randall was a wholesome, nice man who played lovable characters on TV, so it's all good.

Joan Collins was 32 years older than Percy Gibson when she took him away from his wife.

And on and on and on...

[aquart]

100. The point was, Soon Yi had NOT been dating. Had not been "going out". NO dates. Until..

As for the age thing, so true for most of us. Why wasn't it true for Soon Yi? God knows, Allen wasn't pretty. What he is though, is extremely observant on the periphery. He notices things out of the corner of his eye that most people ignore. He may have been the only one in that house to give her any feeling of being visible, who know.

[BainsBane]

127. Are you fucking serious?

"The only one in the house to give her any feeling of being visible."

[aquart]

145. Yes.

Has anyone asked Mia how old she was when SHE was molested? Because now that I know her brother went to jail for it, I'd like to know how far up the Farrow tree it reaches.

[BainsBane]

146. How could Mia have been molested?

Child abuse doesn't exist. Predators are merely giving unattractive girls attention.

Your posts are the among the most offensive I have read on this site. Whatever hatred you have toward Mia Farrow has absolutely nothing to do with whether Allen molested Dylan. It's all distraction. Victim blaming isn't bad enough, but now the sins of the mother transfer to the daughter.

You have a man who took up with the teenage sister of his own children and jokes about being in a love nest with 12 yr olds. He's got predator written all over him. He told everyone what he was. He proclaimed himself "beneath reproach." When people say stuff like that, take them seriously. It's always true.

[anneboleyn]

108. Actress Stacey Nelkin was 17 and Woody was 42 when they began a sexual relationship.

Nelkin was on Piers Morgan defending Woody last night. Here is a bit of the relationship's history -- Nelkin was a young actress (17) trying to become a professional actress. She had a small role in Manhattan that together with some other scenes from the film were cut from the final version of the film. Early in the process, she began a relationship with Woody that she has said in part inspired the portrayal of the relationship in Manhattan between the high school girl Tracy (Tracy/Stacey? Just me wondering) and 40s-ish Isaac. Somewhat sadly Nelkin really made it as an actress.

Nelkin talks about it freely (Woody has never commented), and Nelkin claims that she initiated everything, including the sex. I honestly don't know what to say about Dylan's accusations but Woody does appear to have a penchant for young ladies (I know that a seven year old is not anything like a seventeen-year-old!!). He is still with Soon-Yi, even though the origins of that relationship were peculiar and creepy for many people and now (in)famous: Mia found explicit photos that Woody had taken of a nude teen-aged Soon-Yi -- understandably Mia was disturbed by this betrayal of her trust and what she had perceived as their family unit -- meaning her "mother" role to Soon-Yi, not "rival."

From Nelkin's Wikipedia page:
According to Nelkin, Woody Allen's Manhattan was based on her romantic relationship with the director. Her bit part in Annie Hall ended up on the cutting room floor, and their relationship, though never publicly acknowledged by Allen, began when she was 17 years old and a student at New York’s Stuyvesant High School.[3]

[Arugula Latte]

110. Yes. That's why this (old) "love nest" comment is creepy -- he has a disgusting pattern

of pursuing very young women/girls.

[aquart]

144. About the same difference as Mia Farow and Frank Sinatra?

Would you say?

[El_Johns]

165. The gap between Farrow & Sinatra was 30 years, v. 24 years for Allen & Nelkin.

[GoCubsGo]

113. Yep.

Kind of like when her mother dated and married Frank Sinatra (51 vs. 21). Or, her second husband, Andre Previn (41 vs. 25), whose marriage she broke up. either way.

I have no idea whether Woody Allen is guilty of these accusations, but it sounds like both of Dylan's parents are mighty fucked up.

[bettyellen]

123. does anyone who mentions Previn actually know how many wives HE dumped- 5 or 6?

All obviously, because of she-devils, LOL. Men bear no responsibility at all for their actions. The Taliban are right!!

[GoCubsGo]

133. I never even insinuated any such thing.

And, Previn's extramarital affairs are irrelevant to this situation. Nobody is calling anyone a "she-devil" or relieving men of their responsibility for their actions. Just pointing out that both parties in this situation have engaged in the same sort of behavior. It's bad for Woody Allen to have multiple relationships with much younger women, but it's okay for Mia Farrow to willingly enter multiple relationships with men who are much older than she is? Can't have it both ways.

[bettyellen]

139. "whose marriage she broke up" - speaking about a man who blew through 5-6 wives as if he bears no

responsibility for keeping to the commitment HE made? Yeah, that's the she-devil meme, jilted wives blame the women more than they do the men that dumped them, too.

[GoCubsGo]

140. It takes two to tango.

Yes, he was equally responsible, but I somehow doubt she didn't know he was a married man. Just saying. And, then she went ahead and married him. She isn't the sole cause of the dissolution of Previn's marriage to that paraticular wife, but she certainly had a hand in it.

[bettyellen]

143. congrats, you are the first person here to acknowledge that Previn had ANY responsibility for HIS

own marriage. Or the other 4-5 he ended.

It's a small victory for women not to be held solely responsible for others' marriages failing, but I will take it.

[El_Johns]

166. Dory Previn blamed Farrow for pretending to be her friend while fucking her husband. Sisterhood

is powerful.

Does Farrow have any responsibility for *that*?



She was my friend, my friend
My friend, she was invited to my house
Oh yes, she was and though she knew

My love was true and no ordinary thing
She admired my wedding ring
She admired my wedding ring

She was my friend, my friend
My friend, she sent us little silver gifts
Oh yes, she did, oh, what a rare
And happy pair

She inevitably said as she glanced
At my unmade bed
She admired my unmade bed, my bed

Beware of young girls
Who come to the door
Wistful and pale of twenty and four
Delivering daisies with delicate hands

Beware of young girls
Too often they crave to cry
At a wedding and dance on a grave

She was my friend, my friend
My friend, I thought her motives were sincere
Oh yes, I did, ah, but this lass
It came to pass

Had a dark and different plan
She admired my own sweet man
She admired my own sweet man

We were friends, oh yes, we were
And she just took him from my life
Oh yes, she did, so young and vain
She brought me pain

But I'm wise enough to say
She will leave him, one thoughtless day
She'll just leave him and go away, oh yes

[dflprincess]

151. What bothers me is she has never retracted her support of Roman Polanski

who was actually convicted of raping a 13 year old. (And no, that doesn't excuse anything Allen may have done)

She does seem to have a double standard.

[yurbud]

114. a 40 year old with a 12 year old is a pedophile.

[aquart]

118. Are you accusing Woody Allen of boinking 12 year old girls?

Because the whole world is breathlessly waiting for your evidence.

[yurbud]

125. I'm replying to post 67. You gotta follow those little lines back up to see context

[Nye Bevan]

180. Yuk yuk yuk. And nothing is more hilarious than jokes about pedophilia (nt)

[quinnox]

2. It was a joke

I can tell that just from the context.

[treestar]

9. Pretty bad joke

He should have said 18 year olds.

[aquart]

79. Uh, no.

Because the point was that no matter how unbelievable, people would believe it...and anyone who has seen a spring break video would believe anything of an 18-year-old girl.

[treestar]

101. the subject of sex and 12 year old girls

does not make for any type of joke.

[pnwmom]

11. Sure. But who makes jokes like that? And what does it say about him that he did?

[Orrex]

15. It says that he's acutely aware of the public's perception of him

Hey, it's not a joke that I would have made, and I don't find it funny, but it's exactly in line with what I would expect of someone who's been accused as Allen has been accused.

It's of a similar flavor as Edwin Edwards' famous joke from 1983 when he declared "The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy." It's dark humor, to be sure, but it's not without precedent.

For that matter, Allen has spent a good chunk of his career making deliberately uncomfortable jokes about sexuality, so this current joke, though unfunny, is also unsurprising.


YMMV

[hfojvt]

19. this joke is from an article

in 1976. It's almost as old as I am.

Okay, I am 51 and its only 37, but we still could date.

If the joke was really desperate or something.

[Orrex]

25. Doh. Didn't realize that. 1976 was a very different time.

Rape jokes were common in mainstream media, and sex- and gender-attitudes were not what they are today.

[bettyellen]

53. makes me wonder if Manhattan was released today what the reaction would be.

I thought it was a pretty disturbing portrait of a narcissist that made a joke out of what was possibly statuatory rape, and also- I got bored by all the upper class neurotic schtick he was doing. Aside from the cinematography, I really didn't like it at all. And I like Annie Hall a lot.

But I think the dating teen thing was glossed over in people's minds by his hapless persona as the opposite of what people think of as "predatory". I still think that is working in his favor. He just happens to stumble upon all these teenage girls who want to date him, as if none of it is his doing.

[Orrex]

56. Good call. "Husbands and Wives" explores that very topic.

It's a very solid film with excellent performances all around, particularly by Judy Davis. Allen's character, a 50-something Writing professor who falls for a student, evokes that "hapless persona" that you describe. Interestingly, Juliette Lewis' character totally shuts him down in the course of it, but this likewise casts his character as the victim rather than the seducer.

[bettyellen]

66. And Woody always admitted he is not that character he portrays... but also says he is neurotic, sex

obsessed, extremely phobic and everything else that character is in real life- except the hapless part. He seems to have constructed that part because otherwise he'd be pretty fucking annoying or even hateful with all that narcissistic behavior. Now that I think of it, a lot of people who don't give a fuck about anyone else use that dodge.
And all his other humor has a kernel of truth to it- he exaggerates, but doesn't make up wild stories that are out of character. He says this, then dates an underage actress who he gives a part in a movie to, and there is nothing hapless about it. But the image persists.

[aquart]

70. Was that the film Mia continued shooting AFTER she found naked Soon Yi pictures in Allen's stuff?

Or was it a different film?

[Orrex]

89. Honestly I don't know

I was trying to work back through the chronology, and Husbands & Wives appears to be Farrow's last picture with him, but Wiki doesn't seem to say anything about her finding pictures during filming.

[aquart]

115. Does Wiki cover Mia beating the crap out of Soon Yi?

Soon Yi was beaten by her birth mother. So she was fertile ground for further abuse.

I was googling for confirmation of Soon Yi saying Mia treated the adopteds as indentured servants and her born children as humans One link was to Data Lounge, a venerable gay gossip site. (I'd link but I'm on my tablet and I haven't mastered copy paste. Google Soon Yi indentured and it should show up.)

Seems 2 books were written, one by Mia and one by the nanny. Both describe Mia hitting Soon Yi, but the nanny says Mia caused the bruises on Soon Yi's face by hitting her with a phone. The kind they had 20 years ago. Also a chair.

DOES ANYONE HERE BELIEVE THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME MIA HIT ONE OF HER ADOPTED CHILDREN? Does physical violence just emerge in a crisis if you have NEVER used it?

Everything I have ever seen or heard of Mia's relationship with her hoard of children shrieked abuse to me. Same bloody behaviors. Cutting. Shoplifting. Fervent impassioned defense of the abuser. Nothing felt right about it. And I didn't know anything about bruises so visible that people were commenting on them.

[bettyellen]

149. weren't you just saying how gossip mongers are so deplorable? yet, you have here and below compiled

a bizarre list of unfounded and worthless accusations- including adopting kids and changing their first names is just horrible parenting, LOL.

Do you believe any of this crap? Data Lounge? Are you fucking kidding us?

[aquart]

189. 2 books, including Mia's, confirm the beating. Name changes are documented.

Only Woody's kids had their names changed. I remember being horrified when Mia did it. Those children were old enough to know their names and she simply erased their identities.

I didn't know about the beatings and bruises. Press was very sympathetic to Mia at the time. And I never bought the books. But the name changes shocked me to the bone.

As for the also-documented adoptions, what would you call Mia if they were cats?

Something else, I've always been skeeved by the way Mia's kids keep saying how wonderful she is. Every other time I've seen that behavior, the abusive parent was still in the house. Woody's kids with Soon Yi, however, call him an idiot for not knowing how to use a computer and a meanie for not letting them have a dog. That's how normal, secure kids sound.

[bettyellen]

193. Did you know about Allen beating Ronan? He admitted to that and it's covered in the source you gave

for the Soon Yi beating- and it was documented .... so I don't think you omitting it is an accident.

I would call her a person who loves cats? W-T-F? I hope you are joking. Allen was part of that family and happily participated in more adoptions- I guess that proves he is a sick fuck then? DERP.

Name changes shocked you to the bone? Why? Did you clutch your pearls over it? Or this: "I've always been skeeved by the way Mia's kids keep saying how wonderful she is. " Are you fucking kidding me? But jokes about raping kids- no problemo. Okay then.

Too bad Woody beat his son, and added quite a few kids to this family himself. Because what that means is- You think he is a sick, evil man. Just like Mia. What idiocy. OUCH.

[seabeyond]

194. btw... neither of teen boys would call me an idiot cause i am computer stupid,

nor even jokingly would they call me a meainie. i do not know the "normal" i guess. we simply do not talk about each other in this manner.

i do not know if that matters, but it is not meaningful or indicative of a mother that abuses. my kids are simply respectful and loves and appreciates me. and i, them.

[aquart]

197. Didn't miss it because I only saw quotes.

Provide a link and I will be happy to read about Woody beating Satchel.

Have you EVER read of a mother mass changing the names of her children with one particular father? I never have. I've never heard of a mother changing even one name (witness protection doesn't count). If it's commonplace in your experience, please provide as many links as you can.

I am always happy to learn.

[bettyellen]

201. Is Woody also batshit crazy for adding three kids to Mia's brood? You said that was horrible

having so many kids? Please explain.

Or, were you bullshitting about that being "a concern" too? Which is it?
Name changes? You can google it all yourself. No one but you is outraged over the name change, so I have to say who gives a shit?

[bettyellen]

204. So, what do yo call Woody for his "also- documented adoptions"- he added 3 kids to an already large

brood, huh? It appears it never occured to you that ANYTHING he did was his own fault? LOL.
Fake concerns that disappear when you realize it's not all Mia's fault.... We get it.

[aquart]

205. He has two healthy adopted children now.

He TRIED to get custody of his three away from Mia.

Mia adopted another 6 after Dylan was supposedly so traumatized. SIX. I guess the nannies gave Dylan the support and attention she needed.

[bettyellen]

208. You inferred she was a crazy cat lady- of a Mom... but that was Woody's adoptions adding to the

brood. So, he MUST be crazy, right? RIGHT?
Or you were just pretending to be concerned about the kids??? - Because it would appear so.

No wonder you'd like to shift the topic, LOL. Not having it.

[seabeyond]

209. not only that it is certainly not allens fault molesting daughter, not getting supervision and being

FORCED to adopt two more GIRLS to raise in that home with a wife of a man that knew no boundaries with her and she grew up believing that is the norm, and love.

btw. i took note you saw the pictures of the daughters. ya. i did too.

[aquart]

212. Even minor animal hoarders can't give their pets decent attention.

Mia collected children with agonizing special needs. And multiple nannies. Let's not forget the nannies. I'm sure they provided all the necessary mother love, don't you? The cutting, the shoplifting, no cries for attention there.

I don't revere Mia. I don't honor her. She disgusts me to the bone. She said she would always protect Dylan who has once again been thrown to the wolves.

She changed the FIRST names of Woody's children. She encouraged them to be afraid. It's 20 years and Dylan says she is STILL afraid of Woody. What decent parent does not do her best to make her child feel SAFE? What decent parent throws a child's NAME in the garbage?

[bettyellen]

221. What the fuck is wrong with Woody for adding to that horror show and adopting more kids?

If you believe anything you just said, you'd have to wonder about that too.

[magical thyme]

147. I don't recall rape of 12 year olds being common joke material in the msm

Sex with young woman, yes. But 12 year old girls? No. Not that I can remember.

[Orrex]

150. I'm glad that's not what I said then

Of course, we can cite Captain Oveur's cpmments in Airplane and Airplane The Sequel as evidence of sexual jokes about children, though these date from the early 80s rather than the 70s, so I guess that makes a big difference.

We can also talk about the pre-teen prostitute in Taxi Driver, who wasn't a joke but was certainly part of mainstream media. Or we can discuss all the pop songs from that era about adult men in relationships with minors.

Like it or not, the concept of child sexuality was not alien to public sensibility of the time. Allen is creepy on a whole other level, but let's not pretend that he was the only one making jokes that seem vile in retrospect.

[magical thyme]

152. I never saw Airplane or its sequel, so have no clue what you are referring to

and as you wrote, the pre-teen prostitute in Taxi Driver was neither intended nor received as a joke.

Just because child prostition and rape was known to exist in the 60s and 70s does not mean it was considered a joke.

Allen's joke (assuming it was one) was creepy back then, but is vile considering.

[Orrex]

161. Was his joke creepy back then...

Or are you now declaring it creepy-back-then retroactively? I imagine that you didn't read his comment at the time, and since you haven't seen either of the Airplane films (for example), I'd say that you aren't really qualified to comment on the comedic sensibilities of the day.

That doesn't mean that Allen's comment isn't vile from our current perspective, but you can't point to it as a unique example of inappropriate humor from the time, especially if you aren't actually familiar with the humor of the time.

[KansDem]

183. "Rape jokes were common in mainstream media..."

You got two seconds to get your ass over in your corner
Don't worry. I won't rape you

[pnwmom]

87. That wasn't the public's perception when he was 40. He hadn't quite earned that reputation yet. n/t

[Orrex]

91. Yeah, my fault for not realizing the date of the article

Still, rape jokes were common and socially acceptable at that time, so it seems appropriate to consider Allen's remarks in the context of the era.

[pnwmom]

93. You make a larger point that I've been wondering about. The incident with Dylan

occurred in 1992, before we've all been educated by the shock of seeing so many pedophiles get unmasked among Catholic priests and elsewhere.

So I've been wondering if that's why he got off so easily back then -- people just couldn't believe it. If it had just happened now maybe people would be reacting differently.

[Orrex]

99. Hard to say

I'm hesitant to think that "people just couldn't believe it" in 1992, because the 80s saw a crazy range of sex scandals that jolted the public consciousness. The specter of child sex abuse gained momentum in the 80s, though there may have been resistance to accuse celebrities at the time (Michael Jackson wasn't accused until 1993, for instance).


I have to disclaim that I still don't know what to think about Allen. I find his relationship with Soon-Yi most unseemly, but I have no basis to conclude that she was coerced or unwilling. If a 19-year-old woman were seeking an abortion, I would respect her ability to make her own decisions about her life. It therefore seems reasonable to respect her choice to enter into a relationship with a substantially older man, even if that man seriously creeps me out.

[pnwmom]

102. It's not so much about Soon-Yi as about Soon-Yi's siblings,

all of whom were left to deal with the fact that their father or father-figure (depending on the child) was sexually involved with their sister.

[Orrex]

104. Like I said, creepy.

Also, it appears that the children have come to terms with the situation in various ways, so it's hard for me to draw conclusions about how they were affected or what they thought at the time.

[bettyellen]

107. it's also about Woody making choices that led him and Soon Yi to lie and betray her own mother...

I know she was an adult, but I don't think she would have made the choice to screw over her Mom and her entire family if she didn't see the opportunity to come out way ahead. The power differential and the position she was put in, to blow up that family - and spare the gutless Woody the trouble of breaking up with Mia, is pretty screwed up. She had to tie her future to Woody and ditch her family, but, then again.... it certainly sounds like they deserve each other.

[aquart]

116. Ah, we can spot child molesters by their humor!

Start taping your priests

[pnwmom]

119. Why aren't you taking this allegation as seriously as you would an allegation against a priest? n/t

[aquart]

126. Scroll down. Mia is the abuser, not Woody, and I am stunned you all failed to pick up on it.

There wasn't a shred of physical evidence and Dylan didn't have a hope in Hell because no one had the guts to remove her from that house. SIX children adopted after she was supposedly traumatized? What a lot of loving care Mia must have been able to give her. WHY does she claim to be terrified of Woody? What decent mother wouldn't have made it her mission to assure she was now safe? Dylan now lives in another state. How often does she see Mia?

Mia used her children with Woody to get back at him. Did she show one minute of compassion for Soon Yi, Woody's real supposed victim? No. MIA BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF SOON YI. HIT WITH A CHAIR. VISIBLY BRUISED HER FACE BY STRIKING HER WITH PHONE. I do not for one second believe this was the first time Saint Mia hit one of her adopteds. How do I know? Turns out TWO books say so, one by the nanny and one by MIA.

Where was Dylan while this was going on? Do you really believe that child would have contradicted Mia after seeing what happened to Soon Yi? DO YOU?

[pnwmom]

130. The prosecutor said he had enough evidence to prosecute and the family court judge saw enough

to permanently take away Allen's visitation rights. Allen engaged in a systematic campaign to go after the people who were accusing him, including the police (according to the police).

http://www.andythibault.com/columns/CT%20Magazine%20-%20Apr%2097.htm

During the Allen investigation, Maco received a warning from a high-ranking state police official.

"He [Maco] was told," says a retired officer, "that the Allen people were hiring private detectives to try to get some dirt on us."

One of their key targets was Sgt. John Mucherino, a primary investigator for Maco. They wanted to know if Mucherino was a drinker or a gambler, if he had any marital problems.

Allen's private detectives were compartmentalized, hired by different lawyers and subcontractors working for him, police say. The private detectives included former FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration agents, even former state cops who were friends with Mucherino.

[bettyellen]

154. how badly do Woody's youngest adopted daughters not want him to hug them? apparently

enough to cross their arms to put some real space between their bodies and his.

Shout out to Aquart for referral to the website that linked to these:

http://dlisted.com/2012/06/18/woody-allens-son-funny/46364-2/

[Dash87]

28. It's not funny and creepy as hell.

Only a grade-A creeper would make a joke like that and be so laid back about it. Who the heck jokes about raping little girls and then says, 'that would be soooo me! Heh heh heh!' Dafuq?

[Jesus Malverde]

37. Thank You...nt

[bettyellen]

71. It isn't funny at all.

[kcr]

3. There you go.

I don't care about all the rest of it. False memories, salem witch trials, benefit of the doubt, satanic panic, bullshit. I think Dylan Farrow is telling the truth.

ETA love all the "It's just a joke" Defenses. Right, a man who dated teenagers in his forties tells a joke like that and oh, it's just a laugh!

[LittleBlue]

4. Call the cops

Couldnt be a joke. That looks like a confession

[TDale313]

5. Well, obviously he intended it as a joke

Hahaha- everyone knows/thinks I'm into underage girls. Hahaha.

I don't happen to find it all that funny, especially given the circumstances, but shrug.

[hfojvt]

21. just FYI

check the date on the original article 4 Oct 1976

The 70s called, they want their article back.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. Explain the humor ...I'm missing the joke.

What aspect of a pervert raping children is funny? Is it because he was going to rape an over the top number of children that made it funny or that he called his rape room a "love nest"

Please explain the humor...

[1000words]

7. The joke is this thread

[Jesus Malverde]

8. Maybe you can explain the schtick of child rape.

He's a comedian. He was doing his schtick.

I'm not getting the humor.

[Orrex]

16. The joke was not about child rape per se

The joke was about the expectation that no one would be surprised if Allen were implicated in child rape.


As I stated above, it's not a joke that I would have made and I don't find it funny, but I see it as a pretty straightforward joke and not a confession nor anything of the sort.

[Capt. Obvious]

24. It's okay

There are people who don't think Louis CK is funny.

[Goblinmonger]

18. He wasn't talking about what he was going to do or did

He was talking about what people think about him.

[Jesus Malverde]

23. Pretty sure he's not describing what others think but what he feels...

I'm open-minded about sex.

I'm not above reproach;

if anything, I'm below reproach.

Scenario about child rape (Not funny)

I admit to it all.

Sicko

[Goblinmonger]

29. Look at his word choice

if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him

emphasis mine

It's about what people think of him.

[Jesus Malverde]

42. This was from 1976

The allegations of him raping children did not come out until the 1990's.

So he either cultivated this child pervert persona, or he had a child pervert persona long before he was accused of being a child molester.

[Goblinmonger]

47. Did you watch his movies from that era?

He pushed some envelopes.

I think this is people looking for things that aren't there.

[Jesus Malverde]

50. What titles would you recommend that would put this in context....nt

[Goblinmonger]

74. Everything you wanted to know about sex...

comes to mind. Gene Wilder makes love to a sheep in that flick. Might provide a basis for what Allen is talking about when he describes people's thoughts about him.

[bettyellen]

68. had he already fucked underage teens in real life or movies?

or do you think he was just working up to it? I can't think of what you are referring to. He'd been sex obsessed, yeah. But thats not quite the same thing.

[Goblinmonger]

72. I have no idea what you are talking about

When he started his relationship with Soon-Yi, she was 19. I don't believe that is "underage."

[bettyellen]

73. this quote was before Manhattan- where he fucks an underage girl- and gave a small role to another

underage girl he had fucked.
These quotes are about what his FRIENDS would think, not the public, as is assumed here- and well before there were any rumors about him, or Mia or Soon-Yi. Hope that helps.

[Goblinmonger]

76. It was also 4 years

after Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* in which one segment is about a guy fucking a sheep in answer to the question "What is Sodomy" and has the final scene where Allen is a sperm. Perhaps that film, in 1972, may have skewed people's perceptions of Allen and his attitudes toward sex.

Hope that helps.

[bettyellen]

96. That's the only film of his I love- particularly the sheep bit. Daisy!! Somehow it didn't at all

make me think he was an exploitive creep. Maybe because there was no one underage.
Sexuality- and the sexual exploitation of minors are two VERY different things. Do you not see the difference? WOW! I think many who saw Manhattan missed it too. Weird, that.

[bettyellen]

98. And I have to correct you- it was about two men vying for the LOVE of a sheep named Daisy,

buying her jewelry, sexy clothes, staring into her sheep eyes and proclaiming their love in front of the fireplace. PETA would probably hate it, but it was so OUTLANDISH and UNREAL, you had to laugh. Gene Wilder ending up in the gutter drinking Woolite!

Him fucking 17 year olds, 1/3 his age and giving them film roles? Or making films about it- not so outlandish.

[El_Johns]

167. You guys always get the facts wrong. Stacey Nelkin wasn't in Manhattan; she had a bit part

in Annie Hall, and it got cut.

She was 17 when she started seeing Allen, which happens to be the age of consent in New York.

According to Nelkin, Woody Allen's Manhattan was based on her romantic relationship with the director. Her bit part in Annie Hall ended up on the cutting room floor, and their relationship, though never publicly acknowledged by Allen, began when she was 17 years old and a student at New York’s Stuyvesant High School.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Nelkin

Neither is the love interest in Manhattan underage; she is also 17.

Stacey Nelkin: born 1959

Annie Hall: 1977 (Nelkin was 18)
Manhattan: 1979 (Nelkin was 20)

Not that it will stop you from repeating the same misinformation elsewhere.

[El_Johns]

168. Except none of that is true.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4446351

[CBGLuthier]

57. a child. Not children. there have never ever even in fantasy minds been children

The accusation is about exactly ONE alleged (bullshit) incident with one child. Period.

And they were not allegations. There was one allegation. From one coached witness.


Which is one of the telling signs that this whole thing is bullshit.

[gopiscrap]

10. disgusting

[Jesus Malverde]

13. Agreed..nt

[DemocraticWing]

12. I think he's just doing some self-deprecating humor.

You know, taking something people assume about you and turning it on it's head. Politicians, comedians, etc. do this stuff all the time so I'm not gonna read into it as some kind of confession.

I have to admit I was never really a Woody Allen fan to begin with, so I basically ignore stories about him on the news or wherever. I don't know much about the story that's broke about him possibly abusing his daughter, so while I'm not going to say I know it's true, it's certainly very concerning from what little I've heard about it in passing. I don't really know if this is something to debate exactly, I'll let that family and the proper authorities handle that and hopefully bring about justice if it needs to be done.

[Chorophyll]

14. Well... you can be an epic douche and still not be a criminal.

In my younger years I was a big Woody Allen fan. Not as much anymore, for various reasons.

I can't imagine Dylan Farrow subjecting herself to the onslaught of negative attention she's receiving if she didn't at least believe she was abused. On the other hand, I will never know the truth. None of us will.

That said, I don't think this interview (from 1976) proves anything, other than that over the last 40 years we've become more sensitive as a society about rape and child abuse, and we don't joke about it without consequences. Which is a good thing.

[Jesus Malverde]

17. Was it funny back then?..nt

[TorchTheWitch]

90. no

It would have been considered even more horrible then. Comedy was far cleaner (George Carlin using the swear words you can't say on tv for example was considered outrageous and over the top though the younger generation found it titillating). People didn't MENTION things like rape or child abuse out loud in decent company... certainly no one would have been so disgusting as to have actually joked about it and publicly. People weren't wanting to even discuss such horrible things and what to do about it, which is exactly why so many many sexually abused children and adults never said a word to anyone about it. I was in high school before it started to finally become newly popular to talk to your kids about bad touching and even books were written about it though there was uproar that people didn't think these books should be in libraries (God bless librarians fighting that fight and soooo many others!).

This is why victims rarely came forward especially children. It wasn't even until the '80's that this "date rape" phenomenon was publicly mentioned... even back then rape by society's standards only occurred by the lunatic stranger jumping out of the bushes rather than the FAR FAR more common occurrence of the rapist being someone that the victim knew and often knew well. Half or even most of society at that time disbelieved that this was actually rape. I was raised in such a society where sexual assault at any age wasn't talked about, parents didn't tell their kids anything about bad touching particularly the boys nor likely would have believed they'd been assaulted by anyone they knew well unless they were was also physically beaten because THEY ALSO grew up in a society where such things only happened by the weirdo jumping out of the bushes, and even then it still often wasn't acknowledged.... if you weren't severely beaten no one - even your own family - would have believed that an assault had occurred because back then victims were EXPECTED to scream and fight to the point where they would have been either murdered or beaten severely and enough to need to go to the hospital especially the girls and women.

One thing that bothered me a LOT when I was a kid was that kids were taught by their parents (if they were good and decent parents) to avoid strangers, not get into a car with a stranger, etc. But we were never told HOW to avoid these situations or WHAT we were supposed to be frightened of by them. NO ONE ever warned their kids about someone they knew doing something heinous to them nor what heinous actions consisted of nor what they were supposed to do if such a situation arose.

One of the things I'm proud of today's society about is wide spread general acknowledgment that rapes occur MUCH MUCH more frequently by someone the victim knows and usually knows well, the victims are no longer expected to attempt to fight off the attacker and certainly not to the point of either death or severe injury requiring hospitalization as well as the "no means no" campaign that helps to encourage children and adults to come forward. Add to that the more widespread acknowledgment and acceptance of LGBT people. Certainly we have miles more to go, but compared to the '70's we've gotten MILES and MILES ahead.

[Chorophyll]

105. My memory of the 70s is somewhat different than yours.

I was a child in the 70s. I knew what rape was, probably somewhere around age 9 or 10. I can remember watching a news report about child pornography when I was in junior high. (1978-ish.)

Regarding comedy: George Carlin wasn't the first comic to use a four-letter-word. He was perhaps the first "counter-cultural" comedian who was acceptable enough for a wider audience. (Lenny Bruce, not so much.) Good comedy is always somewhat subversive. When it isn't, you end up with the kind of "take my wife, please" crap that is just as pervasive now as it was then. Yes, it's cruder now, but it's still pretty much the same in spirit.

I'm not saying this to defend Woody Allen's shitty joke—it is a truly ugly, horrible, shitty joke.

[Chorophyll]

95. No.

Did I imply that it was? I called him an epic douche in my subject line.

[Jesus Malverde]

97. I read this

That said, I don't think this interview (from 1976) proves anything, other than that over the last 40 years we've become more sensitive as a society about rape and child abuse, and we don't joke about it without consequences. Which is a good thing.

Today we don't joke about child rape without consequences, however back in the day it was something joked about by professional comedians cause that what people found funny.

[Chorophyll]

106. You'll have to take that up with people from the 70s, then.

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2014, 04:13 PM - Edit history (2)

I don't think it's funny. But I also don't have a time machine.

ETA: I never said people in the 70s found it funny either. I said it has become less acceptable to make jokes of that nature. Whether it was funny or not is a whole different point. You quoted what I actually said, and then put your own spin on it. Nice work.

[cali]

20. gotta love your dishonest headline. Cutting that "If" that starts out the sentence

you refer to, is completely dishonest in that it changes the meaning entirely.

And here let me add the now obligatory addendum: Yeah, Allen is creepy. He may be guilty of sexually assaulting his daughter; that doesn't make dishonesty on your part any better.

[Jesus Malverde]

35. I'm sure if you take the time to parse the actual quote.

Adding the words "if" and even "that was a joke" at the end. Still make my creepy detector peg at 11.

Raping children is not funny.

[cali]

40. no, raping children is not funny? who said it was?

but that's just distraction from your patently dishonest headline.

[Jesus Malverde]

43. Everyone dismissing this as humor...

Hope your not one of them...

[Orrex]

46. Saying that Allen was making a joke is not the same as dismissing rape as funny

[LanternWaste]

61. Whether or not one may dismiss it as humor...

Whether or not one may dismiss it as humor, we may state validly that your OP title is at best, misleading and at worst, inaccurate as it does actually change the meaning of the context.

[XemaSab]

39. Putting a bad title on an OP = child rape

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

[Blue_Tires]

22. I'm pretty sure Allen is being facetious there...

[PasadenaTrudy]

31. Exactly +1 n/t

[Iggo]

26. "I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow...

...people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him."

You edited it to change the meaning.

That's wrong.

[tridim]

38. Agreed. The edit is slanderous.

Not defending Woody at all, but I also don't defend Faux Newz tactics on DU either.

[Egalitarian Thug]

27. Read the piece again, slowly. You have entirely missed the point. n/t

[PasadenaTrudy]

30. I love

this quip: "It's no accomplishment to have or raise kids. Any fool can do it."

Truth!

[clarice]

32. It almost seems....

that he thinks that the whole situation is somehow funny. creeeeepy

[cali]

34. it almost seems like people want to endorse dishonest crap like

changing a quote to make it seem worse.

I find that disgusting. No, I'm not endorsing Allen at all. I'm condemning what the OP did here.

[clarice]

44. Cali, who changed what quote ?

I must have missed that part. I thought that that was a direct quote from Allen ????!!!!
My bad.

[Jesus Malverde]

48. Those words came out of Allens mouth, reported in people magazine.

Long before the allegations of him raping children came out.

Cali doesn't like my headline..... I'm just quoting woody.

Allen fan or Jesus hater, not sure ....

[clarice]

49. Are you a Cali hater ?.lol

[Agschmid]

52. Your headline is deceptive.

This OP was not what I thought it was going to be about when I read the headline.

[cali]

60. Cali doesn't like your dishonest omission of the word "if"

and you know it's dishonest- and not nearly sensationalist enough for you.

[LanternWaste]

85. I think you're confusing "doesn't like" and "pointed out its inherent inaccuracy."

"Cali doesn't like my headline..." I think you're confusing "doesn't like" and "pointed out its inherent inaccuracy."

"I'm just quoting woody..." I think you are again, confusing quoting and misquoting.

But being independent of whether one is or is not an fan of Allen of Allen or of Jesus-- regardless of its irrelevancy...

[Iggo]

54. Jesus Malverde changed the quote for his headline.

You're welcome.

[clarice]

55. Ok, now I get it. Thanks. nt

PS, why would he change the headline?

[Agschmid]

58. Interesting question...

My theory is people like seeing the "my posts tab" turn yellow...

[clarice]

59. Pardon my newbie question...

But what does it mean when the "my posts tab" turns yellow?

[Agschmid]

63. It should be yellow... Until you read this.

[clarice]

64. I'm sorry, read what? nt

[Trajan]

78. When that tab turns yellow, someone replied to one of your posts

Press that tab and find the reply

[clarice]

82. cool...thanks. nt

[WinkyDink]

33. He THINKS he's joking, but the mind has this funny way of revealing truth. "I admit to it all."

[Orrex]

45. Pop Psych 101

[WinkyDink]

142. Oh, right. Like there's nothing to it?

[El_Johns]

171. +100. There are no other allegations of child abuse in Allen's past except Farrow's, which is why

they have to dredge up such trivia from the bowels of the internet.

[Eleanors38]

36. Worse, he coulda been humping 15 guns in Bieburp's car.

[tammywammy]

41. That article is from 1976. n/t

[bravenak]

51. That shit ain't funny.

It's not funny in 1976 and it's not funny today. Especially considering the subsequent accusations.
It's like he was trying to warn us about himself.

[lunasun]

62. I do not know but his own son thinks he is a freak from way back

Allen's biological son with Farrow, Ronan Farrow (birth name Satchel) -- who is now a journalist/government official --said of the relationship according to Life magazine, "He's my father married to my sister. That makes me his son and his brother-in-law. That is such a moral transgression."

"I cannot see him. I cannot have a relationship with my father and be morally consistent," he added, "I lived with all these adopted children, so they are my family. To say Soon-Yi was not my sister is an insult to all adopted children."

Ronan Farrow has come out in support of his sister, Dylan, since she made claims of sexual abuse against her adoptive father, Woody Allen, in an open letter to The New York Times on Saturday.

"I love and support my sister and I think her words speak for themselves," Tweeted Ronan, 26, on Sunday, just prior to posting a series of Tweets on the Super Bowl.

Sorry but can not help from thinking about Allen's 2 adopted daughters even though it is wrong to judge without knowing what really happened

[CBGLuthier]

94. Moses Farrow, her and his son, thinks Mia is a brainwasher

Who gives a shit what Ronan thinks. For 20 years that creepy ass woman has fed him a daily diet of shit. Poor guy wouldn;t know the truth about anything unless his mama told him so.

[aquart]

120. Do you have a link?

[BainsBane]

137. Wbo gives a shit what Moses thinks?

He wasn't the victim of the abuse. The person's word who matters here is Dylan.

It matters not one bit what you think of Mia Farrow. Dylan Farrow is the victim and she has made her statement clear. All the rest is just a transparent effort at distraction.

[El_Johns]

174. And Ronan was 5 at the time. Anything he knows, he knows from hearing it from someone else.

[aquart]

65. He was addressing the witless credulity of gossip mongers and their audience.

Point proven, I'd say.

Does it bother you at all that Mia adopted 6 more children AFTER the Woody, Soon Yi, custody mess? Because why would any parent believe Dylan needed perhaps more attention than she got when busy Mia was filming with Woody while not noticing anything was going on?

Does it bother you that Mia changed young Satchel's FIRST name to Ronan, negating his personal identity much the way she did when she told Vanity Fair that she regularly cheated on Previn and Allen with Sinatra and she couldn't be sure who fathered Ronan? Although she took child support from Woody and has made no claim on Sinatra's $600, 000, 000 estate?

Did you ever wonder why Soon Yi loathed Mia so much she went after her man?

Did you ever consider whether an adopted child, watching an older adopted child, long part of the family, be completely erased for doing something Mama didn't like, would EVER say one word to contradict Mama Mia?

I know which parent I consider abusive and it ain't Woody.

[bettyellen]

69. way before there were any rumours- or Manhattan? he was talking about what FRIENDS think-

not the public. So... nope.

[dipsydoodle]

77. ditto.

.

[BainsBane]

136. clearly adopting children is far worse than molesting them

What a horrible woman. But then woman are horrible are redundant, aren't they?
What was it you said earlier? Soon-Yi needed attention and Allen gave it to her? Far better to take nude photos of the teenage SISTER of your own children and carry on a secret affair with hat girl while still in a relationship with your children's mother that committing the horrific sin of adopting children.


That you think any of that exculpates Allen is bizarre. Even if Mia Farrow were the most horrendous person on earth, it doesn't make Dylan Farrow a liar and it doesn't make child abuse okay.

[upaloopa]

80. You forgot the "If" in front of your OP

[Silent3]

84. Oh, he/she didn't forget the "if". It had been there.

Check the edit history. The poster actually went back to take the "if' out.

It's very deliberate misrepresentation.

[JustAnotherGen]

83. He's so unattractive

Him in a love nest with 12 year olds or 22 year olds - yuck. Just yuck.

He's never been a Sidney Poitier, Newman, Idris Elba, Clooney or DiCaprio . . . just yuck.

[progressoid]

169. So if he were better looking it would be OK?

[El_Johns]

172. Yes, cause Frank Sinatra.

[JustAnotherGen]

185. Hell to the no!!!!!

His ugly starts from the inside out. Yuck!

[TeeYiYi]

86. 'Many a true word is spoken in jest.' ..nt

TYY

[cthulu2016]

92. This OP represents a new low. Congratulations.

[ksoze]

103. Who were these young girls you were with, OP?

I mean our title seems to speak of you, especially after you changed it?

[Capt. Obvious]

109. I smell a new book idea

[Demo_Chris]

111. I am uninterested in comedy that caresses the silken edge of propriety...

Comedy or commentary, I want to be challenged. I want to see social commentators shred that shit like Leatherface going through a co-ed, chainsaw screaming out Welcome To The Jungle. But that's me. I suspect many here would gladly roast marshmallows over stacks of Nabokov and Twain.

[bettyellen]

122. joking about fuckng 12 year olds is "challenging" in what way? it's social commentary how exactly?

I think it's self reverential shock humor. Which no one is remotely talking about censoring. So- why is it challenging?

Itls a high brow version of Andrew Dice Clay, and has little to do with Nabokov. How do you liken this to Twain- except some phony non-existent censorship argument? Not seeing it.

[Demo_Chris]

163. It's 'challenging' enough that we are discussing a joke 40 years after it was told. nt

[bettyellen]

164. ridiculous. that's only because it was a quote relevant to current accusations- a fluke. you know

damned well it had been forgotten for forty years. Nice try though.

[El_Johns]

170. More like you guys are trolling for anything you can twist to smear Allen with. Trolling 40 years

of low grade material, because there are no other allegations of child abuse -- JUST FARROW'S.

There's something really odd about such obsessive behavior.

[bettyellen]

175. i have no idea what "guys" you are lumping me with, LOL. the entire internet is trolling for clues..

because none of us really knows what happened. Not me. Not even you. That's what happens.

But here we are, with some people so desperate to defend jokes about being with "a harem of seven year olds" they compare it to Mark Fucking Twain.

That is the probably stupidest thing anyone has said so far in defending Woody. It's quite sad to see people twist themselves into pretzels insisting that jokes about child rape are hilarious- and memorable. That is just bizarre.

Off with you, and go bother "those guys", wherever they are.

[El_Johns]

176. For someone who claims they don't know what happened, you sure post a lot about what

happened and what everything means.

I haven't seen anyone twist themselves into pretzels or claim the joke was hilarious. That's more of "you guys" putting words into other people's mouths and falsely representing their posts, which you do regularly.

I'm beginning to think you're all the PR team for the Farrows.

[bettyellen]

178. that was the converstion you jumped in on - you didn't actually what I was responding to? WTF?

the poster who compared it to Nabokov and Twain and said "we're still talking about it 40 years later" was who I was responding too.
The rape joke has quite a few other fans here too.

Gosh, maybe if you had ANY context at all, you wouldn't be acting like such a jerk to me? I am fucking sick of these insults when I keep saying I have no idea what happened. And you have no idea either. And rape jokes suck and it's embarrassing to be on a Democratic website and see a dozen apologists for them. FUCK ALL THOSE RAPE JOKE APOLOGISTS.

[Captain Stern]

112. Incredibly dishonest headline.

You intentionally changed the meaning of the quote by taking out the word 'if'. Context matters.

It would be like me claiming that you said "raping children is funny" (which you technically did in post #6 in this very thread)

[bettyellen]

121. meh, you had to click on it to know who or what it was about.

and apparently you missed the part about Woody thinking the idea of raping kids is a source of humour.

[Captain Stern]

131. The humor in the joke wan't about raping kids.

Another poster put up a pretty good example with the quote by Edwin Edwards: "The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy". Edwin wasn't saying that being caught in bed with a live girl is funny or that being caught in bed with a dead boy is funny.

Allen wasn't saying that having sex with a whole bunch of 12-year old girls is funny. He was using hyperbole to illustrate the low expectations that folks might already have of him.

[bettyellen]

141. there is no "joke" without the "love nest of 12 year olds", which is fucking creepy to consider

but apparently something Woody had to have contemplated in his quest to prove he is below reproach.
he really can't blame anyone for believing that it was an idea he pondered. sociopaths will test people's limits all the time, and pass it all off as jokes. it raises flags.

[Captain Stern]

191. I get the part where you say he can't blame anyone for believing it was an idea he pondered.

But I don't think that that necessarily means it was an idea that he pondered.

Steve Martin had a great joke, during his stand-up days, that implied that he raped a cat. I thought it was funny. Not because I think raping cats is funny, but because it was delivered cleverly. Steve Martin also had a bit about feeling responsible for his ex-girlfriend's death (because he shot her). It wasn't funny because he was talking about somebody being killed (nobody was actually killed for the joke). It was funny because his story took an unexpected turn.

[bettyellen]

196. I know exactly what you mean- when it is a very unexpected turn or outrageous, it's funny.

Like someone said they thought he was considered a pervert for "Everything you Wanted to Know about Sex", but it is outrageous, the part about falling in love with the sheep was hilarious. It's actualy my favorite Woody movie. I don't think anyone considered him a creep for wearing a silly sperm costume either. But Manhattan raised a lot of flags for many people for obvious reasons.

The interview where this joke was contained was a fairly personal interview about his life, and he was exaggerating quite a bit here and there throughout for comic effect, but not making up anything completely outrageous or basically untruthful from what I could see, most things seemed to have more than a kernel of truth. The context is actually quite different than a stand up act. I don't take it that he literally would be stupid enough to try and assemble a harem of 12 year olds, but certainly what ever version of that fantasy he could get away with? Yeah, I could see him trying. Odd jokes like that, and very odd acts like inviting 13 year old "pen pals" over to his place altogether tend to set off red flags. One odd thing, maybe not- a whole spate of real inappropriate behavior- the jokes don't seem funny at all. They begin to read more like his ID running wild.

[BainsBane]

117. People have a way of letting you know who they are

through such comments. Those excusing it as humor are saying nothing. Jokes reveal how people think. It wouldn't occur to most of us to make a joke about "a love nest with 12 yr olds." Allen says he is "beneath reproach." I for one take his word on that particular point.

[Capt. Obvious]

124. Does this call for another HOF thread?

Or will you just update the existing one?

[BainsBane]

128. What exactly is your complaint?

That I post in HOF? That I post in GD? That I exist? Seriously, you need to find something better to do with your time than monitoring me or HOF. It's obvious you have no understanding of what you read there anyway.

[Capt. Obvious]

188. Sure I don't

[Z_I_Peevey]

132. If there is one thing I have learned about sociopathic predators,

it is that they will tell you who they are up front, often as a "joke."

And once you give them that benefit of the doubt, they're off to the races. They feel it exonerates them somehow.

[BainsBane]

134. Yep. Just like if someone tells you they are no good

a bad guy or a bad woman: believe them.

[zazen]

160. for those who don't get it, substitute "love nest with 3 yr olds" for the original comment

I agree, BainsBane.

The creep factor in his comments is that on some level he thinks a love nest of 15 12-year-olds is a verboten but desirable fantasy from which someone should restrain themselves, or else he would never use the term "love nest." He doesn't think it's publicly acceptable, and he's not admitting he's ever done it, but it's still something "hot" to joke about. Which tells me that he only disapproves of the social disapproval of it, not the act itself.

If he said, a love nest with "3-year-olds," people then (and now) would immediately wonder, why in the hell would anyone ever describe three-year-olds sexually? That to me is the tell.

Today, thank God, most people think describing 12-year-old girls sexually (unless you're another 12-year-old) is really creepy for adults to do. In the 70s? Hell, male profs were still openly sleeping with undergraduates without consequences. There was abuse of power by older men of younger women all over the place being sold as "freedom" (for men, that is). His comment wouldn't have offended as many people as we'd like to think, but it speaks volumes.

[cali]

129. thanks for changing your op title.

[Rex]

135. Well before that joke, I would be surprised. Humor often masks a truer statement.

Yeah I would be surprised if Woody Allen was caught involved in child prostitution. No doubt.

[LittleBlue]

138. You finally edited out your slanderous omission

So now what is the point of this thread?

[redqueen]

148. What is so hard to understand about the concept that rape jokes aren't funny?

If they don't attack rape culture - if they don't paint rapists as monsters - they aren't funny.

VERY few comedians can manage to walk that line.

If they paint rape as a joking matter (which this one does) they are not funny.

They are not jokes - they are ENABLING RAPE CULTURE.

THIS IS PART OF RAPE CULTURE.

WTF is wrong with some people?

[Jesus Malverde]

159. Thanks for speaking clearly redqueen - Check out this "Joke"

Mr. Allen retelling a joke about his ex-wife getting sexually assaulted on the street....

[redqueen]

206. What a sick, hateful, misogynist asshole. I wish I'd seen this years ago.

[quinnox]

153. Interesting edit history

First was the headline as it now stands, "If I was caught in a love nest with 15 12 year-old girls tomorrow…"

Then, shortly after the OP was posted, an edit was made, which dropped off the "If" as well as the "tomorrow", so it appeared like this -
"I was caught in a love nest with 15 12 year old girls" so, by making these edits, it appears the statement is one of fact, instead of clearly a joke comment.

The only way to have edited it to make it even more salacious, would have been to put Allen's name first - "Woody Allen - I was caught in a love nest with 15 12 year old girls… "

At least the OP did restore the original headline, after many hours went by…

[BainsBane]

187. I thought it was a hysterical joke?

Last edited Wed Feb 5, 2014, 08:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Suddenly it's salacious? So which is it?

What I find odd is how people make a big deal about the word if. The use of work "tomorrow" makes clear it's not talking about something that actually happened. Besides, if it's just a funny joke when Woody Allen said it, why is it problematic to post it? Seems like there are some pretty strenuous mental gymnastics going on. I hope folks don't hurt themselves contorting in so many directions.

[kestrel91316]

155. Memo to Woody: That's not a "love nest" - that's a RAPE nest.

Sick mofo.

[quinnox]

158. Yep, clearly there is a whole lot of people who lack any sense of humor

whatsoever. These folks should never go to a comedy club or watch certain comedians on television, they would need a fainting couch.

[bettyellen]

177. the vast majority of us here find the joke repulsive.

I think you have 4-5 people at best defending it.

[Nye Bevan]

182. Yeah, I love the *edgy* comedians who joke about raping prepubescent children (nt)

[BainsBane]

186. What exactly is funny about raping a child?

Please, explain it to me.

[Nye Bevan]

181. Just a joke, folks! Because pedophilia is hilarious!

I mean, just because he cracked jokes about being a pedophile, does not mean that he is not as innocent as the driven snow of the pedophilia allegations against him. And there could be a perfectly innocent explanation for the compromising position the babysitter found him in. And it is in no sense weird to marry a girl who is effectively your stepdaughter.

[aquart]

190. So Mia and Frank are fine with you? And Mia and married Andre? But not Woody and Soon Yi?

Because YOU believe Soon Yi was too stupid to know who her parents were?

Speaking from personal experience, MAMA'S BOYFRIEND IS NOT STEPDADDY.

But a daughter who goes for Mommy's boyfriend? Hates Mama's guts.

And let's not forget Mia's coy confession that she cheated on Andre and Woody with Frank. What a woman!

[BainsBane]

192. So what exactly is this about to you?

How evil women are? That a woman's testimony of abuse should be dismissed if you don't like her mother?

Soon Yi was the sister of Woody Allen's children. Allen decided his desire for that girl was more important than the well-being of his children. It is not illegal, but it is a pathological boundaries issue. It shows a lust for young girls and a disregard for what most people see as hard boundaries among family members.

All your railing about Mia only highlights your own character. It has absolutely nothing to do with Dylan's account of being molested. Dylan has not accused her mother of abuse. She says her father abused her. You are intent on ignoring her account for every other distraction you can invent. If she was the worst mother in human history, that in no way diminishes Allen's responsibility for HIS own actions, which Dylan says were predatory.

[aquart]

195. So you also confuse 7 and 19? See, I don't.

And Mia didn't have a problem with it when SHE was the 19 year old. Or when SHE was the one breaking up a family.

I wonder at your instant rage at a man known to like teenage girls BUT NEVER KNOWN TO GO FOR GRADE SCHOOL KIDS.

So if he falls for the LEGAL Soon Yi, it's obvious he's boinking 7 year olds? Think Frank Sinatra molested little girls because he married Mia?

My big unanswered question right now is when was Mia molested and who did it. Because that was an interesting script she fed Dylan. I couldn't have thought of it. And now that I know one of her brothers committed suicide and another one is in jail for molesting little boys...I just gotta wonder if there was a molester in the family when she was a kid.

Now Dylan didn't have a chance. Where was she when Mia was bruising Soon Yi's face? Adopted Soon Yi was thrown out of the family for making Mia mad. You tell me why you believe adopted Dylan would have had the guts to contradict ANYTHING Mia wanted her to say? She was SEVEN and had nowhere else to go but Woody's and Mia kept her terrified of Woody.

Most of us know adults who were molested as children. Have you ever met one who claimed to still be frightened of the molester? Isn't the first goal of family and therapy to make the child feel as safe as possible? No one did that for Dylan. WHY NOT?

[BainsBane]

198. Why do you keep bringing up Mia's affairs?

That has nothing to do with anything. Lots of people have affairs, about half of married people. Newsflash.

I think Woody Allen molested his daughter BECUASE HIS DAUGHTER SAYS SO. Got it? She is an adult now and under no one's control. I am amazed at how Allen's defenders pretend she is still a seven year old unable to speak for herself. She has spoken clearly and loudly and you refuse to believe her in favor of her accused rapist.

If Mia was such a terrible mother and abusive, as you claim, why did the court grant her full custody and deny Woody Allen even visitation? Allen wasn't even allowed supervised visitation. That is extremely rare. I know of no evidence for your claims. Clearly the family court did not see it that way, since they denied full scale Allen's suit for custody.

I got that you have a intense hatred for Mia Farrow. That is entirely irrelevant to anything but your own psyche.

I absolutely know people still frightened of their molester. Jesus Christ. What do you think therapy is, a magic cure? Have you ever been in therapy? They don't wave a magic wand and take away all your fears. Child abuse is so devastating because it affects a person at a crucial period of her development. Dylan is in a happy marriage, which tells me she has gone a long way toward healing.

Your points are all over the place and make zero sense.

[Nye Bevan]

199. "Woody was kneeling on the floor holding her, with his face in her lap"

The baby-sitter who was inside searched high and low for them through the cluttered old farmhouse, but she couldn’t find them. The outside baby-sitter, after a look at the grounds around the house, concluded the two must be inside somewhere. When Mia got home a short time later, Dylan and Woody were outside, and Dylan didn’t have any underpants on. (Allen later said that he had not been alone with Dylan. He refused to submit hair and fingerprint samples to the Connecticut state police or to cooperate unless he was assured that nothing he said would be used against him.) Woody, who hated the country and reportedly brought his own bath mat to avoid germs, spent the night in a guest room off the laundry next to the garage and left the next morning.

That day, August 5, Casey called Mia to report something the baby-sitter had told her. The day before, Casey’s baby-sitter had been in the house looking for one of the three Pascal children and had been startled when she walked into the TV room. Dylan was on the sofa, wearing a dress, and Woody was kneeling on the floor holding her, with his face in her lap. The baby-sitter did not consider it “a fatherly pose,” but more like something you’d say “Oops, excuse me” to if both had been adults. She told police later that she was shocked. “It just seemed very intimate. He seemed very comfortable.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211#

[seabeyond]

200. now tell me nye... what father could see himself in that position, on his 7 yr old daughters lap,

and seriously argue, that is not a HUGE flag. what man would ever even consider that appropriate any time, any place, for any reason.

the man would not be around my kids again.

[Scootaloo]

202. Well, the babysitter has ovaries and so is CLEARLY lying!

Or just being a malicious female out to ruin the great and powerful Woody.

[seabeyond]

203. You know,

That last sentence could be a hoot in the ironic whether you purposely did it or not. But ya.... I know how this works and know the tells. This one is pretty easy along with dks? Strauss.

[redqueen]

207. Who was Mia dating when she was 19 that you think is such an outrage? Her mom's boyfriend whom she

knew since she was 9? No?

THEN IT'S IN NO WAY COMPARABLE!


And which family did she break up?


Your rambling about Mia "keeping her terrified" is pure-D bullshit.


This idiocy is so fucking transparent.

[aquart]

210. Mia broke up Dory Previn's family.

Dory had a nervous breakdown. Wrote a song Beware of Young Girls. Nice song.

Lotta hysteria and very little logic on the Mia side of this. The people who root for the child hoarder are wildly confused about the facts especially about which child was abused which was very much Mia's point.

So, you worried about the other girls in the house? All that opportunity and Woody didn't touch 'em? What about his current daughters? Why aren't you howling about their safety?

You worship Saint Mia. I don't. Two sentences out of her kids' mouths and I knew who the abuser was. Happy healthy kids aren't so religiously profuse in the parent's praise as abused ones are. Abused kids will always tell people how wonderful the abusive parent is. It's the clanging alarm bell.

My sister read Dylan's letter and said she thought it sounded like a Hollywood script. I thought the details were pretty textbook and abuse victims agree that the details are on point. So, if it didn't happen, and common sense says it didn't, where did the details come from? A book? A little library research? Or someone else's memory?

My question of the day is, when was Mia molested and who by? It never occurred to me before, even when I found the excessive adoptions repellent. But yesterday I learned for the first time about her brothers. One died in a crash at 19. One committed suicide years later. ONE IS CURRENTLY IN JAIL FOR CHILD MOLESTING. Did the problem only confront the boys? Or did it also reach out to Mia and her sisters?

And how often was Mia's molester brother alone with her children?

[seabeyond]

211. did the husband who was on number what wife, have ANY responsibility in the break up

of his marriage by CHOOSING to fuck another woman? or, was it all the fault of the woman that never took the vows?

i truly love how these men fuck around all over the place, and it is the women they are fuckin around with fault. would that be sexism to you? cause it surely is to me.

[aquart]

213. Goodness, next you'll be telling me Mia is still a virgin.

Innocent of all things. Innocent forever.

And all those wicked old men seducing her against her brave and courageous will.

[seabeyond]

214. so, you advocate that the married man has no responsibility in his marriage, it is all the vixens

fault his marriage broke up.

sad dude. sad.

kinda retro there.

[aquart]

215. Saint Mia has a pattern of older men. No qualms about wives.

Andre Previn is not my interest.

You asked if she broke up a marriage. She did. If you want to hold her innocent of it, being victim of predator Previn's machinations, fine and dandy. Go for it.

But Dory welcomed her into her home and she walked out with Dory's husband. That's a no-no.

[seabeyond]

216. then you hold that a man that makes his vows are not responsible for keeping his vows.

it is up to all the other women that did not make vows, to make sure he stays pure. antiquated.

[aquart]

217. What has Andre Previn to do with this?

It's not either or. Previn cheats. Dandy. On his head be it.

Why are you anxiously holding Saint Mia innocent? She entered a woman's home and accepted her hospitality. If that doesn't make her man off limits, what does? And I don't give a shit what moral vacuum considers that antiquated. If Mia was going after Previn, she should have stayed out of Dory's house. It has NOTHING to do with Previn.

And wasn't Mia's rage at Soon Yi for doing exactly what she did?

[seabeyond]

218. what has mia to do with it? a thread about a pedophile telling a joke about 15 12 yr old love nest

[aquart]

219. See, you assume Woody is a pedophile based on rejected Mia's rage.

You don't seem to get that Woody was saying the most unbelievable thing he could think of in that quote. Comedians don't actually plan out how humorless hanging judges many years on will take their remarks. Hell, Shakespeare didn't worry that someday he would be accused of anti-Semitism for writing Merchant of Venice. It happens.

[seabeyond]

220. wrong. judge denied custody, visitation, supervised visitation. that doesnt happened unless there

is a problem. and dylans account. and witness account.

and false accusation is rare. a lyin pedophile is always.

i really do not care how you interpret the ass's joke. i pointed out to you what thread we were in and why mia was not relevant to the conversation.

[aquart]

222. Serial crime. Woody and Soon Yi have 2 daughters.

You act like they don't exist. Why is that?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

223. if the news report from 93 is accurate that seems to be incorrect

However, the judge said that unless it interferes with Dylan's treatment and is inconsistent with her welfare, Allen should resume seeing her in a therapeutic context within six months. He also increased supervised visits with Satchel, the couple's 5-year-old biological son, to three sessions a week from two.

Wilk decided he would not require Allen's adopted son Moses to visit his father if he does not wish to do so, but the judge said if the 15-year-old can be helped by seeing the filmmaker, then he believes Farrow should "promote such interaction."

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-08/news/mn-865_1_custody-trial

That isn't 'denied custody, visitation, supervised visitation'