I wish people would separate Russian govt from Russian people when they post.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

They are two separate and distinct things.

The Russian et all people are hard working, cultured, tragic and loving people.

The Russian government is something else.

My grandparents immigrated from there. They were peasants. But, they had
enough guts to get on a boat to Ellis. They had little money. But they had
books, and classical music, and they loved the symphony and the ballet. They
learned English and they read the New York Times.

[flamingdem]

1. Absolutely! The Russians have great beauty and depth in their culture

We are not our government either, governments pass but culture continues on.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. What you say makes me sad. For so many, to me, our government is better

than our people. Our government cared enough to try and help people see a doctor when they are sick. Yet, half of
them don't even care about those who can not.

[flamingdem]

10. We have a divided country

Luckily ACA passed, I know it helped me a lot personally. Even some of the people who don't care will have to admit that it's good for the majority, some day!

We've had leaders worse than Putin I suppose, if the comparison can be made.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. Very true. At least Putin hasn't manufactured a war based on lies where thousands upon

thousands died to benefit buddy war profiteers.

Wow, bummed myself out, sorry ! Glad you got ACA coverage FD and are happy with it !

[Cleita]

2. I'll second that.

During my lifetime the Russian people I have met were, warm, gracious and dare I say many were elegant. Most of my favorite classical composers are Russians.

[elleng]

3. Yes. Better. Thanks.

Similar story here.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. there's a theory that memories of your ancestors are passed on. I truly

think that "the struggle" for the oppressed and the less fortunate was passed in my genes. I
feel so lucky for that. I would absolutely hate a life where I didn't give a shit.

What is your ancestry?

[elleng]

17. Russian, Polish, Roumanian.

and the details are gone from me unless 1 cousin, younger than I, can provide some info.

Mother and father's families settled and lived in NYC (where I was born.) Emma Lazarus and the Statue of Liberty have always meant a lot to me. My first Broadway show: Dad took me to see Miss Liberty. And thereafter, took me to NYC Ballet every year.

Yours?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. Russian, Ukranian, and Polish. I really want to go to Krakow and St Petersburg

one day. They say going to Krakow, and seeing the concentration camps will change
your life forever. Have you ever been to Eastern Europe?

My ancestors came to Ellis, then all settled in CT. I envy you growing up in NYC. CT
always seemed so boring to me. I would live for the days we could take the train
in.

Dumb question...but have you ever been to Ellis Island? It was very emotional for me.
They told us that back in the early 1900's s they had one minute to determine
if someone was crazy. If they did, they would put an X on their coat with chalk. And,
they would send their entire family back to Russia. The good news, somehow my
family got through :&gt

[elleng]

30. Would love to visit St. Petersburg. No desire to see concentration camps,

can't watch news clips about such.

Went to Moscow for a quick trip while I was in England my jr. year of college. Soviets provided me (and other tourists, I guess) a 'guide,' which was just as well because I was alone, couldn't speak the language OR read!

Saw museums, and the ballet.

Never went to Ellis Island, and glad my ancestors made it through!

Went to a wedding in Poland in 2000, an office friend in DC married an au pair so we used that as an excuse to take daughters. In Warsaw momentarily, and smaller city for the wedding. I never wanted to go there (or Germany,) but we did. Overnight in Berlin, and among other things, saw Brandenburg Gate, which was important, because my husband's last name was Brandenburg. Then on to Vienna, and ITALY!

[adirondacker]

60. Your OP and discussion has been fun to read and rekindled fond memories of travel....

Friends and I went to Eastern Europe the year after the wall came down.We (I) drove from Germany to Prague, then to the Tatra mountains in Slovakia (where my grandmother was from) and then to Krakow. We ate at a restaurant where Gorbachev and Reagan met (serious 5 star). Appetizers, Dinner, Wine and Dessert cost $7.00 at the time. It was one of the top three dinners I've ever had out. The castle in Krakow is immense and the cathedrals are stunning.

I wouldn't recommend driving through the mountains during winter. There was No sand or salt, no visible lines or markers, and several hundred miles of black ice in a two wheel drive Ford Scorpio. White knuckle all the way! I passed several cars that ran into the ditch from loss of traction.

The scenery was spectacular, and the people warm and friendly. I'm looking forward to returning during spring/summer when I have the time and money. I want to explore some of the abandoned castles in the countryside. I've read that Krakow has become a bit yuppified and a bit more expensive (similar to Prague). I'm looking forward to seeing how much things have changed.

Hope you get to go there soon. Make sure you do all of your event and hotel booking in the country you are visiting. (you'll save a fortune and get good advice providing you are friendly with the travel agent).

[colorado_ufo]

62. French (Alsace-Lorraine), Russian Jewish, Welsh, English

From early childhood, I loved classical music and literature and have felt a strange affinity toward the passionate Russian people, although I had no knowledge of my background until in my teens. Also from very early childhood had a fascination with Joan of Arc, later discovering that she was from the same area in France, and I was actually born on her Feast Day.

Funny coincidences!

[sheshe2]

5. Spot on Laura!

Kudos to you and your Grandparents!

[BeyondGeography]

6. If I had a box at the Mariinsky I could live there

For a few years at least...it's a beautiful culture. No Tolstoy, no Dostoevsky, no Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev or Stravinsky? No Sviatislov Richter recordings? I wouldn't want to contemplate that.

The Russians have given enormously to humanity.

Very sweet ending to the ceremony tonight. The torch bearers were lit from within.

K&R

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. Wow - you've been to St Petersburg? How lucky you are. nt

[doc03]

7. I hope people separate the US government from the American people

in other countries too. Lets face our government has done a lot of bad shit in our name.

[JI7]

26. they do, they hated Bush and the wingnuts tried to claim anyone who hated him

hated America. they accused americans who hated bush of being anti american.

and now these same wingnuts are the most hateful towards the pres we have now.

[kcdoug1]

8. But

who allows the Russian government to do the things it does...

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. that's an excellent question. Perhaps it's like rabid racism here - it will

take several more generations to fix here and several more generations for people to rise up there ?

[Luminous Animal]

37. Who allowed the Bush government to rendition and torture, and to commit an illegal war...

Who allows the mass incarceration of black and brown people without similar punishment for white people who commit similar crimes.

Who allows discrimination in every possible way for the LBGT communities in 38 states.

Who allows routine torture in their domestic prisons.

Who allows the imprisonment of as much as their population, per capita, as did Stalin during his reign of terror.

We do. We allow it.

[riderinthestorm]

12. Yup the xenophobic posts on DU about the Olympics are disgusting nt

[LibDemAlways]

14. Me too. I visited St. Petersburg in 2008 and was blown away

by the knowledgeable tour guide, a moonlighting university professor, who shared the history, beauty, and culture of the country with our group over two days. With the exception of the unsmiling, no nonsense immigration officers who stamped our passports, the Russians we encountered were welcoming and hospitable.

Yes, the Russian government leaves a lot to be desired, but, then again, so does ours.

[alittlelark]

15. Perhaps we should look in a mirror......

... True, a distorted one....but how far away are we???

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. Wish we could split up. We could have our own liberal government. Let

the other half have there's.

I had a dream one time that they rearranged all the states. I was living in Birmingham and missing my family in Connecticut - think that is where it came from. But, in my dream, Alabama, was moved above Massachusetts and turned sideways to fit.

So, we don't need to take "rearranging the states" off the table. hahaha

[JI7]

18. yes, it's mostly Putin i see as being the problem, but i love Russian Culture

the history of so fascinating with a lot of sadness but also very beautiful.

it's one of the places i most want to visit in the world.

[NYC_SKP]

20. Hear, Hear!

They do this with Texas and Texans, and other states, countries and regions.

It's not cool!

grrrrrrr.

[DFW]

39. Man did you ever get THAT right!

On DU, we are all somewhere between Vlad Țepeș and Idi Amin.

It gets old.

[Barack_America]

21. No worries. The Russians had me at Dostoevsky.

Levin from Anna Karenina is also probably my favorite character in literature.

[treestar]

22. How can people be that separated from their government?

Maybe they should not have voted Putin back in. I mean, let them take at least a little responsibility.

[JI7]

24. there is corruption plus their "democracy" is only a couple decades old

those who voted for him should be responsble but it's more complicated . look at how putin puts people who criticizse him in jail.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. We voted Bush back in when he lied us into a war - but never mind that. I

really haven't heard very much about what life is like in the former Soviet Union now. I just assume
Putin is like a remnant from the past....better than before...but still a remnant. And the people
have something like a battered wife syndrome. (you always told me what to do - now what?)

My bad. Thanks Treestar...you made me want to find out.

[Jamastiene]

85. Uhm, how much responsibility are you willing to take for Bush?

Maybe you should not have voted Bush back in back when he got in for a second time.

Oh, you probably did not vote for Bush considering you are a Democrat. Hmm...See how illogical your argument is? It doesn't work.

[pangaia]

23. And the same with Chinese people and gov,

Iranian people and gov, and on and on ad infinitum...
It's always the same.....

[lpbk2713]

27. It's a deal

As long as you try not to think of my Irish ancestors as drunken rowdies.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. All my growing up years..I wanted to be Irish. They always seemed so cool

to me and had so much fun !

[Cleita]

31. My late husband was from Ireland.

They too have a tortured history of oppression.

[lpbk2713]

33. Then it's a deal.

And in honor of the occasion I hereby confer upon you the title of honorary Irishman. (wink)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Cool. You do have enough clout to do that, right?? If it wasn't so late I

would make an Irish coffee. Jameson or Bushmills?????????

[1000words]

43. " Jameson or Bushmills?"

Yes, please. Better make it a double ...

[kitt6]

32. The Cold War is over America;

lets give the Olympics a chance.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. Just saw a clip where a citizen said "We just want it so we (all nations) are one/together"

sorry, paraphrasing here, but same gist.

Sure.. they are not cool and savvy and as advanced as we are...but So What.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

56. That's what I take away from the games.

And tune out idiot Matt Lauer's snark about the Israelis following the Iranians in the Parade of Nations. Ooh, is there gonna be trouble?!

NYT piece, for anyone interested:

Olympics Opening Ceremony Offers Fanfare for a Reinvented Russia
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/sports/olympics/russia-opens-sochi-games-with-pageantry-and-pride.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

And this:

However, surprisingly, and refreshingly, there were discordant notes sounded in this ceremony, words that Putin could not have liked. His anti-gay law has received a remarkable amount of attention and scorn, as it should.

But who expected it to be alluded to by the two top Olympic leaders here tonight? Although they didn't mention it specifically, both Sochi Olympic Organizing Committee President Dmitry Chernyshenko and International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach made a veiled reference to the controversy in their speeches:

"Our Games will be yours," Chernyshenko said. "All of yours. Because when we come together in all our diversity, it is the Olympic Games that unite us."

Then came Bach.

"The Olympic Games are a sports festival embracing human diversity in great unity," he said. "Therefore I say to the political leaders of the world. … Please respect their Olympic message of goodwill, of tolerance, of excellence and of peace."

This was just another one of the pleasant and unexpected developments on a Friday night when the world came together in Sochi.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2014/02/07/opening-ceremony-sochi-olympics-christine-brennan/5285129/

I didn't expect to spend three hours watching this tonight, but I'm glad I did.

[MADem]

34. It's a pity that the Olympic exposition of their culture and history was

vetted and controlled by the dictator who rules them.

I think if they'd been left to their own artistic devices, without a need to cram a political agenda into an opening show, they would have come up with a more palatable and tasteful display.

They certainly aren't lacking in talent--it's freedom that is in short supply. AGAIN. Unfortunately.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Right. Just like the "freedom" being taken away here for forcing Obamacare, huh. i just

hate the way the right abuses those words when people all over the world have more of
right to say it.

[MADem]

59. Well, I was thinking more of the shut down by DECREE of RIA Novosti and Voice of Russia radio....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25299116

During Mr Putin's time as Russia's leader, RIA Novosti has tried hard to produce balanced coverage for Russian and international audiences, our correspondent says.

Although state-owned, it has reflected the views of the opposition and covered difficult topics for the Kremlin, our correspondent adds.

Mr Kiselev is known for his ultra-conservative views, including recently saying that gay people should be banned from giving blood, and that their hearts should be burnt rather than used in transplants.

Reporting on its own demise, RIA noted in its news report that "the move is the latest in a series of shifts in Russia's news landscape, which appear to point toward a tightening of state control in the already heavily regulated media sector".

That's not quite the same as the ACA, which passed the House, and then the Senate, was signed by the President into law, and--after the wingnuts complained-- did go all the way to the Supreme Court, if you remember. Like it, or not, it's constitutional.

It's not at all like a leader of a nation getting rid of the opposition press in its entirety, in one fell swoop, without any legislative imprimatur to so do.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. Oh I agree with you completely ! I was being sarcastic.

What is it like, to live in Russia today? There are three possible
ways of living in Russia.

First is - being a part of the System: it means, that you have an access to state resources and may use them in any way you like. The only thing you need to do to keep your sinecure is doing whatever your Master (Mr. Putin) says. And don’t get caught on stealing. This kind of living in Russia is accessible to a very limited circle of persons. They all send their children to live and to study abroad as they understand very clearly, that soon, all because of their “work”, there will be nothing valuable left in Russia.

The second way had been chosen by the major part of the Russians. And this is the way of total obedience. Those, who had chosen this way, live hard, but very quiet lives. They blindly obey absurd laws that contradict to the International Human Rights Convention and even to Russia’s own Constitution. They pray for the ghostly “stability” once promised them by Putin, they believe every word they hear from the government-controlled media and hate those, who had chosen the third

And those, who had chosen the third way, live in the constant fight for Freedom. They see the situation perfectly well. They have no illusions about Putin and his clan. They often even have no hope left. But they keep fighting because this is the only possible way of life for them. They risk their lives and lives of their relatives every day. They stand against Putin’s regime to death. They won’t give up. They won’t abandon their country. They know, that neither European Union, nor USA will support their liberation movement. They have nothing to rely on. But this Tuesday, May’12, the whole wide world will see them sacrifice themselves for Freedom they deserve.

Today the president of Russia Vladimir Putin has signed up the new law about meetings. It has already been published in the Russian press and by that it came into effect. It literally means, that since today, every group of Russian citizens of more than 3 persons can be equated to lawbreakers. The world community keeps diplomatic silence about that. But I won’t. And you, my reader, can also affect the result of fighting for Freedom in Russia. Wherever you are, no matter how many
of you, even if you are alone, - come to the Russian embassy in you town and support those brave Russians that fight for their rights with no hope to win, but because they see no other way of life for themselves.

By Tatyana Shulga

http://politzeki.tumblr.com/post/24741761685/what-is-it-like-to-live-in-russia-today

[MADem]

66. I'm digging "Group Three." I fear for their safety, though... Gutsy blogger! nt

[go west young man]

69. Please Explain Group 4 (shown here) to us. They are on "Russia's Next Top Model"

and incredibly popular and well liked in Russia as we speak.

And the show itself is hosted by a gay red haired man who wears 4 inch pumps. It's one of the most popular reality shows on Russian TV. Sorry if they don't fit the US propaganda mold that has been pushed so hard.

[go west young man]

68. How can you seriously believe that show wasn't palatable and tasteful?

That was one of the most amazing Olympic openings I've personally ever seen. The symbolism through out was fantastic. The self deprecating red scare section showed humility. The use of T.A.T.U.'s (lesbian anthem) song poked fun at themselves. The Trokya horses leading the way across the frozen tundra and then the breaking of the ice under the spring sun (paganism) with the fish (christianity) arriving and carrying the Russian Orthodox cathedrals as they spread across the land. Then the innocent girl out front as the fish swims away. The massive nod to Tolstoy, literature and dance. Peter the Great and the building of the Russian fleet and the emergence of Russia as a civilized western society. The Russian industrial revolution. The sheer fact that they barely played on Russia's role in WW2 showed true humility as Russian lives were half of the total 50 million lost in the war. That move showed brilliance. The sixties in Russia were shown with clerks going to and fro, the space race and the Hipsters along with the arrival of cars, then new Russia emerges.....It was beautifully and incredibly orchestrated and performed. Russia should be proud tonight. The American schadenfreude has back fired world wide and Russia has arrived on the world stage looking like an impressive country despite whatever propaganda folks like yourself push. Oh the irony. And you are going to lecture us on tastefullness...of all people. I think I just coughed up my Baltica. Google it. I'm sure you don't know.

[polly7]

70. Thanks!

I had to go to work for a few hours and haven't had a chance to see it yet. I didn't know if it would be worthwhile to look it up, the way some people had said what a horror show it was.

[go west young man]

71. Your welcome.

I think it was truly a show for intellectuals. The symbolism throughout was astounding if you understand Russian history. The show was sheer genius despite what others are trying to push. I can only assume that it must have gone over their heads. The BBC has given it rave reviews and the comments section of the Guardian give it plenty of kudos for it's symbolism.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. I liked it, too.

I thought the symbolism was beautiful.

[Jefferson23]

79. Well stated, I thought it was exceptional and poignant. n/t

[go west young man]

86. Sound of crickets.....

[1000words]

35. The over-politicizing of the Olympics is why I'm avoiding it

[kitt6]

41. I'm getting tired of blatant

blindness and ignorance. Let the Olympics play out without politics and Rush Limbaugh frustration and ideology. God! Can't we have something positive besides republicans insecurities?

[ReRe]

42. I haven't heard anyone run down the Russian people....

... and had I, I would have had the same reaction as you. They've got many of the same problems we have, but not all the same, thank God. All human beings are in the same boat. Doesn't matter where they're from or the color of their skin. Seems like all peoples are at the mercy of their governments. So glad your grandparents made it to America. They sound like wonderful persevering folks.

[kitt6]

44. LISTEN IDIOTS

THE COLD WAR IS OVER!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

46. huh? what/who are you referring to? nt

[CFLDem]

73. I'd say it's actually gearing back up again.

Only this time China and possibly India will be added to the mix.

Should be good for us by keeping congress on their toes and by giving the American people a main goal in life: to beat the Ruskis again!

Just imagine a new space race, and infrastructure improvements to ensure we're in tip top shape to compete.

Our economy should be buzzing in no time.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. This has been happening for years...

...except it is usually Israel or "The South." It is nothing but rancid regionalism, which many refuse to acknowledge as a form of bigotry. Sure, there are going to be misunderstandings, but it seems some really can't distinguish between the government, the country, and the people. Just because you wrote this post doesn't mean you support the Russian plague of homophobia, nor its other repressive policies.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

51. But, isn't there are difference? Oppressed people with Oppressive

governments? Vs. free people who are represented by people of like mind?

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Not always.

Also consider, many of the beating and hate directed against the Russian GLBT is coming from the people of Russia.

[NYC_SKP]

47. Agree in principle, with the following caveat:

Russia is a big, and immense, country and, to a certain degree, may be less enlightened than we are.

To a certain extent, their government is allowed to do this by the people or, alternatively, their government is formed by people from the community, just as ours is.

So, to the same extent that we should rightly be seen as a warlike people as our government is very war-loving, the Russian people need to own some of that homophobia.

I hope this makes sense. We ought not smear the entire populace, but the citizens are not all without some blame, some of them are likely happy with the homophobic government position.

I hate that this is happening at all.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. I get you. I admit, I am ignorant to the current state there. But, I want

to learn and find out. You are right...perhaps because of censorship - they may be 10 years
behind us, maybe more. This is all good - it makes me very anxious to see what information
is out there !

[Jefferson23]

80. There is significant corruption in Russia, and their citizens like Pussy Riot push for a better

Russia. I am pleased the games are in Russia, the amount of journalists from all over the
world allows for contact with the population on a level the government can't completely
control...a very good aspect.

Shine the light....

The opening ceremony was beautiful/ exceptional, and allows for one to show off the best of..nothing
wrong with that.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

48. Most of us have.

The rather hysterical thread you *may* be referencing has only four recs. For people so bent out of shape over Putin's propaganda, they sure do a good job of shoveling it here.

Russian history is fascinating, and "Soviet Area Studies" was in my Top 3 of favorite high school classes.

[kitt6]

49. I have a very close friend from

Lithuania; Russia. We have been friends for many years. Shut TFU. They came out with healthcare and education long before you misplaced people could dream of!! Sincerely, Tonto.

[backwoodsbob]

50. why

how many people here can't separate *the south* from individual people?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

57. You are right...I have no idea if modern day Russians feel the same

as their leaders. But, it does strike me that the south is represented by the majority of the people in the south - with like minds. Of course, there are unrepresented bastions. My observations, anyway. Seems different when we are talking about an oppressive regime - where there is a strong possibility that the government does not represent the will of the people ? No?

[backwoodsbob]

83. nailed it

everything you said is right

[kitt6]

52. Misplaced or misfitts;

what the hell is the difference? How do you think this country got in this condition? Putin and the Brother ruled it for decades??

[Laura PourMeADrink]

58. ?

[quinnox]

54. Yep, as noted there is a bunch of "damn fureigners!" hatred and USA! USA! type

boneheaded sentiment going on.

[adirondacker]

61. Ther keepin us safe dammit! nt

[Firebrand Gary]

63. The people of Russia are amazing.

It was a beautiful opening ceremony, the people of Russia should feel very proud. I don't blame the people of Russia for their governments appalling behavior, it's amazing what those with power will do to maintain their hold.

[polly7]

64. I'm sad over all this.

I love the winter Olympics more than any other world sporting event .... it's normally two weeks of bliss for me, I love the moguls, aerial skiing, hockey, figure-skating, curling .... all of it. The bigotry of that horrible picture tweeted and the blatant homophobia bothers me to no end, I find it sickening. But I've always thought of the Olympics as a chance for the whole world to celebrate coming together, the athleticism, dedication and seeing the total joy of athletes living out their dreams. I love seeing how each country has prepared, the information provided between events .... so much to learn. So I'm very torn, but I will watch. Russia's millions are not represented wholly by their gov't any more so than any other country that's committed or allowed atrocities and shouldn't be grouped as not worthy to hold an event coveted by every nation in the world. I just hope that all of the attention will bring about some positive change.

[kitt6]

67. Research and read!.

Pour me a drink.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

82. Go to charm school

[Fumesucker]

74. There's more than a few of us can't even do it within our own nation, sadly enough

Read practically any thread about anything that happens in the South and particularly in Florida or Texas.

[davidpdx]

75. I agree to a point

Remember it is the Russian people at the end of the day who have to live with their government and they continue to choose to do that.

One of the examples I like to use is Iran. Before I went to college, I'd never met anyone from Iran. All I knew is the bad things about them. In the dorm I lived in one of my RA's was from Iran. A real nice, down to earth guy.

I've never been to Russia, but my wife has.

I still maintain the stance that it was a mistake for the IOC to award Russia the games.

[WinkyDink]

76. 100% agree. The Russian people have suffered for centuries, under Tsars, Communists, and Oligarchs.

[pampango]

77. True. Though we should do the same for Syria/Syrians, Ukraine/Ukrainians, China/

Chinese and so on. It is hard to do but it is an important reminder. Thanks.

[PDittie]

78. Welcome to Texas.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Of course, to stand with the Russian people requires that you stand with the least among them

not the powerful nor the criminal. The LGBT Russians are also Russians. They are oppressed by the government, church and the people that make up those institutions. And those who are beaten and jailed are in fact Russians.
If you think that standing up for our own is a bad thing I simply disagree with you.

[Jamastiene]

84. Yeah, that would be like blaming ALL American people for Bush.

ALL of us didn't vote for that son of a Bush. I get what you are saying. The Russian government can kiss my ass. The Russian people probably have a mixture of pro gay rights and anti gay rights people. I like the pro gay rights people. They are good people, imo. The ones against gay rights can kiss my ass. Fair enough?