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Same Dog, Different Owner (Original Post) kpete Feb 2014 OP
The photo on the left breaks my heart. Solly Mack Feb 2014 #1
Breaks my heart too! Hard to believe that's the same dog! Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #5
Oh. my. gosh. narnian60 Feb 2014 #2
I don't get why the hell someone keeps a pet fujiyama Feb 2014 #10
To be totally fair, wickerwoman Feb 2014 #28
The people who had my dog before me brought her to a no kill shelter hollysmom Feb 2014 #36
Good on you. I cringe when I hear people say "my dog doesn't listen" KurtNYC Feb 2014 #37
Interesting I never heard of her. I have a disagreement with lots of training hollysmom Feb 2014 #44
I loved her book "Understanding Dog Mind" KurtNYC Feb 2014 #46
thank you n/t hollysmom Feb 2014 #54
KurtNYC! A million thanks! I am an advocate of raising children and dogs through nonviolent methods DesertDiamond Feb 2014 #45
You're welcome. There are many positive trainers out there but Bergin takes it further KurtNYC Feb 2014 #48
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2014 #63
Awww. What a great story, Hollysmom villager Feb 2014 #53
My friends, saints that they are, adopted a 14 yr. old dog through a rescue out of the city shelter. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #42
This is so true Ratty Feb 2014 #50
I had a friend many years ago wickerwoman Feb 2014 #65
I don't understand it either. It just breaks my heart. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2014 #52
Is that a smile I see Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2014 #3
Wanna know something really interesting. It's kind Democratic in philosophy... jtuck004 Feb 2014 #4
Could you please tell us more about this program? BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #21
Certainly. You can log on to jtuck004 Feb 2014 #31
Oh Wow... BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #33
Other people did all the work. I just borrowed knowledge from what they did. jtuck004 Feb 2014 #34
It's a fantastic idea BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #35
Have a heart, BrotherIvan Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2014 #57
Thank you! BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #64
I'm marking this because I want to get more info. Great need for spay/neuter where I live. n/t truth2power Feb 2014 #61
I should add two important things to this. jtuck004 Feb 2014 #62
Have another heart, jtuck Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2014 #58
Thank you. They are why I focus on the people <G> n/t jtuck004 Feb 2014 #60
oh...baby... Chellee Feb 2014 #6
Dogs have owners. Cats don't. Cat's have "staff". SharonAnn Feb 2014 #30
OMG, that is incredible. Curmudgeoness Feb 2014 #7
My cat when I found her Aerows Feb 2014 #8
His Orangeness, my rescue kitty. WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #14
Too funny!!! savannah43 Feb 2014 #41
Amen. K&R nt TBF Feb 2014 #9
As a volunteer for a rescue organization, Stonepounder Feb 2014 #11
Remember Patrick the Pit Bull, starved and thrown down a trash chute? WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #12
K&R And it's worth remembering that... woo me with science Feb 2014 #13
Thank you. This, too. Thanks. n/t TygrBright Feb 2014 #15
True! Solly Mack Feb 2014 #19
+1 El_Johns Feb 2014 #49
No one owns an animal. You are a caretaker. L0oniX Feb 2014 #16
+1000! Scootaloo Feb 2014 #20
Why I can't watch the Animal Planet channel: Animal Cops. DRoseDARs Feb 2014 #17
Not possible! JDPriestly Feb 2014 #18
unbelievable. poor doggy. Liberal_in_LA Feb 2014 #22
Beautiful. byronius Feb 2014 #23
Is this really the same dog? colorado_ufo Feb 2014 #24
good gawd - that is awful. Lil Missy Feb 2014 #25
I am not a dog guy... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #26
sonn ovva .... irisblue Feb 2014 #27
Poor sweet baby - so happy he found a loving home. nt UtahLib Feb 2014 #29
I am absolutely appalled at how people can SheilaT Feb 2014 #32
That brought tears to my eyes. Quantess Feb 2014 #38
omg. how can people be so horrible? BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #39
Goes to show "Mutt" is only in the eyes of the Beholder bkanderson76 Feb 2014 #40
Man the internet is dusty today... Glassunion Feb 2014 #43
Mine, too. LisaLynne Feb 2014 #55
The owner makes all the difference in the world. baldguy Feb 2014 #47
Breaks my heart. n/t Paper Roses Feb 2014 #51
Heartbreak, then happy love... blue14u Feb 2014 #56
My father... Bigmack Feb 2014 #59

Solly Mack

(90,771 posts)
1. The photo on the left breaks my heart.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:22 PM
Feb 2014

I'm so glad the doggie found someone to love and get love in return.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
5. Breaks my heart too! Hard to believe that's the same dog!
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:40 PM
Feb 2014

Poor thing! So nice she ended up in a good home...she must be so grateful/happy.

narnian60

(3,510 posts)
2. Oh. my. gosh.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:35 PM
Feb 2014

I am so sick and tired of seeing animals that are so neglected. I don't understand how anyone could be so freaking cruel.

fujiyama

(15,185 posts)
10. I don't get why the hell someone keeps a pet
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:44 PM
Feb 2014

if they can't take care of it? I mean, I love dogs but I work 60 or more hours a week. I know I wouldn't have time to give it the attention it deserves. That's why I won't get one until I either work fewer hours or live with someone that could help me take care of it.

Then again some people are ass holes, some are idiots, and a lot are both.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
28. To be totally fair,
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:19 AM
Feb 2014

peoples' life circumstances can change drastically and giving up a pet one can no longer take care of in those circumstances can be one of the hardest things to do.

Some pets have very frail and elderly or mentally ill owners who struggle to take care of them after a health crisis. Some people lose their jobs and homes but want to cling on to their pets because they are often one of the few reminders of happier times.

Neglect isn't always the result of assholism or idiocy. It can arise from some pretty shit situations people are landed in through no fault of their own.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
36. The people who had my dog before me brought her to a no kill shelter
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 06:20 AM
Feb 2014

but they labeled her vicious. Actually she is very nervous and scared and barks a lot and gets in other dogs faces but does not hurt them. She was labeled unadoptable and high strung, I had to lie my mouth off to get them to let me adopt her. Ijust could not see her living her life out in a cage at the shelter away from all other dogs. I figure they bought her and then she got too big and wasn't a cute puppy anymore. This dog never did anything to be labeled vicious to people. She was old and untrained - she chewed on my fingers but not hard because she has a soft mouth I just took a few minutes to teach her how to get my attention, She would cringe when I raised my hands as if she had been hit a lot and she knew the word hot and was terrified of mugs, meaning I drank hot liquids from glasses for about a year.

I think some people should never get pets if they don't do the research to see what pet is best for them. Anything worth doing is worth doing well, even loving an animal - right now my holly is a cuddle puppy, it took a while to get hr to let me pet her, it took longer to teach her to look me in the eye. - now she is super affectionate and a bit of a bully expecting me to be at her beck and call. She will come over and look at me until I feel her staring and look at her - then she takes me to what she wants. Haha and every visitor wants to steal my old puppy.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
37. Good on you. I cringe when I hear people say "my dog doesn't listen"
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:19 AM
Feb 2014

or "is stupid" or "is stubborn."

Dogs are pack animals and they are very tuned in to energy and smells. Their vision is generally so-so and hearing is absolutely last. The dog you got was "listening" to body language and learned that a raised hand sometimes means "I am about to hit you."

The burden is on us to communicate effectively with dogs. They may learn 100 words or so but even there, due to their hearing and not being verbal-oriented creatures, they can mistake one word for another pretty easily. Dogs' senses come in the exact opposite order of ours. Humans hear sounds in the womb and our nose is poor. Dogs are born with only their nose to lead them to the mother. Their ears aren't in the equation until 14 days later or so. And many dogs can't hear much at all and they do just fine (with the right owner). When people are speaking complex sentences and, ugh, threats like "if you do X I will do Y to you" they are lost.

I am in love with the work of Bonnie Bergin who rejected alpha dog theory and advanced alternate theories of dog training and behavior. To over simplify a lifetime of work: Establish a good emotional connection with the dog and use methods of communication that the dog understands. Bergin's methods have been used to train thousands of service dogs which alpha dog theory says is impossible. Bergin uses lots of hand signals and I found her work when I had a deaf dog. I now use her methods and hand signals with my hearing dogs because it works so well.

According to alpha dog theory you have to physically intimidate the animal yet paraplegics and others with mobility challenges regularly use service dogs without ever physically intimidating them. Intimidation is just that. It may look like training but the results are usually poor and inconsistent. ADT takes an animal which by nature wants to please us and scares it into some mix of submission and anxiety.

There is a better way, as you obviously know.

http://www.berginu.edu/discover/DrBergin.html

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
44. Interesting I never heard of her. I have a disagreement with lots of training
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 02:27 PM
Feb 2014

which is why my dogs are not trained on the dot. I will have to look for things this woman wrote. I know I disagree with the dog whisperer because he thinks dogs have to sleep with you and I think we need our own space. This girl likes to sleep on a cushion when she can see the front door and almost see the back door - it is impossible to see both.

I adopted this dog because they took her out for me to see, but were going to put her back in her crate - that is where they kept her in a separate room and had her for years. She did a good imitation of sitting quietly and looking at me - probably a big question mark. She had been adopted 3 times before and returned. When I brought her home she kept running up and down stairs from the attic to the living floors to the basement. When she got tired, she jumped on the couch and fell asleep, I lied and didn't have a crate, when she wants to crate, she lies under the computer desk mostly during bad weather.

She may only know a few words, but mostly she knows tone - she knows when I am exasperated and call her in, she knows when I am telling her she is a good dog no matter what words I use. She can hear the sound of soft dog food going in her bowl, I think she has above average hearing, it is just some times she chooses not to hear. Like when she slipped her collar one day, she would not come when I called her, but then I tripped and fell and she came over immediately to take care of me. I have learned not to chase her, but to fall when she is in a running away mode, ha ha.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
46. I loved her book "Understanding Dog Mind"
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 04:47 PM
Feb 2014

She talks about 5 modes of training and the different predispositions of dogs and which training works best on which personality. For example an anxious dog versus a confident one. It is out of print but cheap on eBay.

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Dog-Mind-Bergins-Bringing/dp/0316091243

DesertDiamond

(1,616 posts)
45. KurtNYC! A million thanks! I am an advocate of raising children and dogs through nonviolent methods
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 03:16 PM
Feb 2014

I know the method for children but hadn't heard of the one for dogs until now! Thanks so much!!

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
48. You're welcome. There are many positive trainers out there but Bergin takes it further
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 05:16 PM
Feb 2014

She has made understanding how dogs learn her life's work and passion. A bit more about her start 40 years ago:

So strongly had she been struck by the idea, she couldn’t let it go, and left teaching to work in a dog kennel for $2 an hour to learn about dogs and dog breeds. Armed with this knowledge and a determination to help people with disabilities live more fulfilled, independent lives, she began the experiment that has resulted in the internationally acclaimed “service dog” concept.

Kerry Knaus, a severe quadriplegic, answered the phone at Santa Rosa’s Community Resources for Independence. Bonnie was hoping to speak to the CEO, to gain her support for this project and her help in locating someone willing to give it a try. Bonnie’s short explanation to the receptionist produced an amazing response, “I’ll try it,” from Kerry Knaus. Kerry’s disability was so severe that if her head fell forward, she could not lift it back up. At most she could lift one ounce, but in her power wheelchair she was a dynamo. Together the two of them, Bonnie and Kerry, worked with the very first service dog, Abdul. Bonnie would ask Kerry what help she needed and the two of them would work out a way to teach Abdul how to do it.

Had Abdul not been exceptional, the service dog might have had wait for another visionary to come along. But his gift to the world was that, as a happy, loving black Lab-Golden Retriever cross, he wanted nothing more than to please Kerry. Often he seemed to intuit what was needed as Bonnie and Kerry fumbled through an afternoon trying to elicit a response from him, neither having formal dog training experience. The application of Bonnie’s teaching experience seemed to produce results, but in truth, it was Abdul’s translation of that information into “dog talk” that transitioned Kerry’s needs into “service dog” commands.

Kerry’s attendant might leave mid-afternoon, returning after dark, leaving Kerry sitting alone in the dark. This resulted in teaching Abdul to turn on and off lights. That Kerry might drop the TV remote or a pen but not want to bother the attendant resulted in teaching Abdul to pick up frequently dropped or needed items. The fear that the house might catch on fire when the attendant was gone resulted in teaching Abdul to tug open doors. Those skills expanded to pulling wheelchairs, tugging down zippers and taking off socks as others sought out Bonnie to get a service dog to help with their special needs. Bonnie also learned over time how incredibly important the service dog’s role of partner and best friend was to those whose disability often left them socially marginalized. Equally important, to a public that heretofore looked right past them, the dog now acted as a social bridge attracting attention and conversation.


The story continues:
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/9312564


Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
42. My friends, saints that they are, adopted a 14 yr. old dog through a rescue out of the city shelter.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:59 PM
Feb 2014

The poor doggie's owner died. The owner's daughter had the dog sent to the city pound.

The lady from the rescue called my friends because she knew they had a Treeing Walker Coon Hound. They thought the new dog was a TWCH but we think he might be a Fox Hound.

The rescue lady said she never saw a dog so broken. It's no wonder why - to have his human companion die and then end up in a shelter had to be a horrible experience. Also, he was in pain from glaucoma in one eye.

My friends are fortunate enough to have some resources to take care of his medical problems (a couple thousand and counting).

Now they have a spry 14 year old that doesn't look a day over 8.

Ratty

(2,100 posts)
50. This is so true
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 07:00 PM
Feb 2014

I've seen it. Overwhelming depression or mental illness. They simply can't care for their pets and are barely able to feed them regularly. They can't bear to call up the pound and give them away - they may know there's a good chance they'll be euthanized. They don't have the will or knowledge to research animal rescue services. Often they have let the condition of their home deteriorate to such a degree they feel they can't let anybody in the front door to help them out.

They often feel crushing, overwhelming guilt about their pets and how they are living.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
65. I had a friend many years ago
Fri Feb 14, 2014, 05:14 AM
Feb 2014

who suffered from depression and struggled to take care of his cats. Just about the only thing that got him out of bed was feeding them (even when he was too depressed and broke to feed himself). He just couldn't keep up with the litter box and general house cleaning- not to the point of real harm or neglect to the animals but certainly not an ideal environment for them.

Anyway, he wasn't an asshole or an idiot. Like you say, he loved the cats and knew they'd likely be put down if he gave them to a shelter. They were nine or ten years old and one had health issues and needed to be on a special diet. And they were one of the few positive things in his life. I really think having to give them up would have sent him over the edge. And they were certainly not better off dead than they were in his care.

It's a shame there aren't more support services focused on educating and donating food or medical care or home visits for poor or distressed families that want to retain their pets.

I found Animal Cops difficult to watch too, but one of the reasons was because there were so many episodes where pets were taken away from poor minority families or very elderly individuals, often with the owner(s) crying as the animals were removed, and then they always end the episodes with the animal bouncing around on the lawn of a white middle class suburban family who can finally offer the pet a "loving" home. They never really delve much into some of the issues going on with the homes the animals are removed from and whether or not addressing some of those issues would have allowed them to maintain the bond with their original families.

Iwillnevergiveup

(9,298 posts)
3. Is that a smile I see
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:38 PM
Feb 2014

on the doggy on the right? Why, yes.

Huge K&R and kudos to everyone involved in rescuing, fostering and adopting animals previously in desperate straits. Your efforts are heroic and very, very appreciated.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
4. Wanna know something really interesting. It's kind Democratic in philosophy...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:39 PM
Feb 2014

Many years ago I found that even with the growth of shelters and spay/neuter clinics the killing in shelters and pet bites weren't changing much. Went looking for what makes an impact and found that there is a way, where the community is given control and a little bit in resources, then went about doing it in a town.

The upshot of it was that I learned what an impact a little bit in resources put into that first owner's life can make. People make the same remarks about dog and cat owners as they do about any group getting any sort of government assistance, and forget those lives are impacted by the corps just as much as anyone.

Sometimes the name "bad" or "irresponsible" is deserved, just as some parents and caretakers deserve to not be taking care of kids and go to jail. But that's a relative few, and many, many times more than that can provide better lives for their family, pets, or whomever with a little bit of cooperation.

Thank you for the pic. Lucky dog

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
21. Could you please tell us more about this program?
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:10 AM
Feb 2014

I am involved in the rescue community and sometimes it feels like swimming upstream. I try my best to educate and help people get their pets spayed/neutered and how to care for them. Would love more info on what works. Thanks!

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
31. Certainly. You can log on to
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 02:08 AM
Feb 2014
http://www.montanaspayneutertaskforce.org/ for starters, and be sure to look at

the pdf near the bottom of this page

http://www.montanaspayneutertaskforce.org/statistically-speaking/

with previous years stats.

Read around the site - lots of info.

Years ago there was a terrible dog overpopulation problem in an area of the Blackfeet Nation where the people had nearly nothing in resources. Instead of killing them, they borrowed a garage, got a vet to come in with a helper to do their part and provide the medical guidance, and the people, a LOT of 5-7th grade kids as well as adults did everything else. After killing the really sick animals, and these events where owners get some resources and power so they can solve their own problem, they did. Over a bit of time strays just disappeared. Dog bites dropped off. New dogs were spayed or neutered somehow, even after the event, something that had really never happened before. Later they decided they needed, and started their own animal control. These events have been repeated it scores of times across dozens of years and in different areas, with other expanding it out to the state, and other efforts elsewhere. The further it gets from the original, sometimes, the more it turns into do-gooder puppy huggers doing something FOR people instead of LIKE them, (something you have to guard against). There is some efficiency in that, but it kills the spirit and respect, and might actually not do the job as well. There was a spirit in those early ones that is the key to this, and a LARGE part of that is getting the right age kids in a position where they are hands on. (hint: they are magic).

Get the older ones to scrub instruments in between surgeries and help with animal handling. It's very good for them.

With the kids involved in large numbers, a few adults, and a vet and tech who are used to this model, each pair of vet/tech can spay or neuter roughly 40 dogs a day - a lot of it is technique and movement. Very hard to get such a number and variety to practice on in private practice AND get someone else to pick up the bills, so it serves as a great training ground too. Good surgeries, minimal impact on the animals, in and out so hardly any blood, results that stand up to any veterinary clinic - because these are done by licensed vets who practice every day. We even set up extra tables and invite visiting vets who come by to pull up a table and do some.

I spoke to the Vet association at the invitation of their president, and in my conversations with others nearly all of them supported it strongly. (We had an "Event" here, and had a vet who had already made her displeasure known marched in during the event with a video camera to gather evidence. She was a really smart person, nice lady, and by the end of that was offering us the use of her autoclave, getting tips from one of our surgeons, and I think talking about equipment purchases from another state). They make more money on well dogs anyway, and this produces a substantial increase in the well dog pool in the area, so it can help the rest of their business as well.

The COMMUNITY that is generated in one of these is incredible, and crucial. W/o that it just becomes a low-budget spay/neuter clinic. That's fine, but I don't know that we need another 30 or 40 years of basically the same result nationwide, despite how much blood, sweat, tears (lots of tears) and spirit is plowed into what we are doing to tell us we need to do something else.

One of the biggest problem in spay/neuter is not getting enough, it's getting the right ones. Nearly everyone who comes in is low-hanging fruit - the hard ones are still at home, and they need other methods to entice them out. You will break your city trying to mandate it, because these people live their lives laughing at people in uniform trying to make them do things. You have to respect them and welcome them. It's a much different philosophy. But it's very cool when the 5th grader brings the crotchety old neighbor guy in with his dogs, something he swore he would never do. You get the dog-fighter kid who thinks his dog is the toughest one "on the res". You get a LOT of really great people who you will never ever meet on the other side of a counter or badge.

The greatest resistance, even hate mail, came from shelters and a spay/neuter clinic. Was just a distraction though, so went on.

After I thought I had sufficient info I started a non profit and wrote a grant to get some money, talked with vets, found a really good person to rely on who knew about these events. Then I started attending community events around and talking to people. At this health fair in a small native nation area near here I met their principal, smart woman, got it instantly, and cared about the mission. She helped get everyone else together and they made this happen. In the school gym. It was great. We did roughly 140 animals, mostly dogs (30 or so cats maybe, in 2 days.

I went back to interview them about the impact, and months later they were still talking about this. Animal control there historically means they either drive the dog somewhere or shoot it in the woods (not unusual in a lot of rural and even suburban areas even today). For the next year they didn't shoot any, which had not happened in years. Dog bites dropped off, and many of the stray dogs didn't do that any longer. They were, to a person, wanting to do this again, but so far it hasn't happened.

With a bit more in resources one could do this in a city, but you have to do some prep work in create a support network, getting people together, etc. And they HAVE to believe the philosophy, and that is very hard in this world. But you could starting small with a proof of concept. That will be harder to do than one thinks, but it is do-able. Maybe could be sustained over time. Don't know. Usually it just turns into cheap spay/neuter and then we are back where we started, but it hasn't in some areas, so the results vary.

It is a philosophy distinct from where you hand all this over to "experts". It's very, very hard for people who have been raised in a society where they hand all this over to others to even conceptualize what you are talking about, so don't give up hope.

That help? Feel free to write back.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
33. Oh Wow...
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 03:21 AM
Feb 2014

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will definitely check out your links and see if I can come up with a plan. Did you find it was easier for zoning or regulations because you were not in a city? I hear what you are saying about resistance from current rescues/shelters as some are very hard to work with and want to do things their own way and not work in tandem. Plus people here are very suspicious if you approach them as a neighbor. They think you are nuts or you want something from them. What a great way to meet each other.

I do cats and we have a great clinic here called Fix Nation. The biggest thing is, as you said, getting the people to get on board. I just LOVE you story of teaching kids and getting them involved. Kids love giving, sharing and participating. It's so wonderful seeing them get involved in their community that way. I fear so many kids are so pressured with activities and sports, they don't get a chance to learn and gain confidence in other meaningful ways like this. And it teaches them the right way to take care of their animals. My cat colony began when a neighbor, a couple of young people who had never been away from home before and thought having a kitty would be fun. I offered to get their cat fixed and pay for it, but they refused. She had three litters and the kittens dumped outside. When they moved, they left her and she had two more litters. I began trapping and fixing them but it took over a year to get them all and get the population of almost fifty cats under control. All from one irresponsible owner.

What you are doing is absolutely amazing and I can't thank you enough for your answer and for all that you do. You are definitely a major inspiration! And my hero!!

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
34. Other people did all the work. I just borrowed knowledge from what they did.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 04:08 AM
Feb 2014

As far as zoning - it won't be a problem if the city, or an authority, is doing it. I suspect the larger the city the more possibility of problems (especially if Chris Christie is the mayor, but that's another post).

It's also easier if you find pockets of need. In this case it's a small city far enough away, and populated by people who must live on aid of various sorts that it impacts their ability to get medical care, much less vet care.

You have to have this in a public place. Like a school, or maybe firehouse. That's the kind of community-driven thing this has to be. You can do it, and it has been done, in empty shopping mall spaces, but it begins to turn commercial, the kids aren't as involved, the environment isn't the same, it's much harder to engender the same spirit. Often in those, and it has been tried a lot, the puppy-huggers take over, it loses its spirit.

If you can get the principal in a small town behind it, and maybe a little city help, they can make this work like no one else. After having talked with principals at schools in larger districts, it seems that some have some fairly good autonomy, and could use that space if they want to do it. Not everywhere, I suspect, but you just need one to start.

The goal is to encourage them into self-sufficiency, perhaps putting these on themselves, maybe with you acting as a place they can borrow $50,000 or a $100,000 worth of equipment every once in a while. And that's where grant writing comes in, along with creating a non-profit and learning to find people that will fund your mission.

I am always amazed by the kind of work you are doing with the cats. I have helped with a few of those, and good people invest a large amount of work, money, blood - themselves, really - into those. The best way I have seen to reliably control a colony of cats.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
35. It's a fantastic idea
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 04:22 AM
Feb 2014

And the biggest part would be teaching the community the importance + benefits of spay/neuter. I can't believe in this day and age the old agricultural beliefs that pervade that fixing your pet somehow "ruins" them. I've heard people say they think their cat should have at least one litter for their health. Uh...

And then there are the dudes with the uncut pitbulls that are everywhere around here. Oy. Yes, I get the manhood projection. But it's the same with dudes and their chihuahuas. I was talking with one guy, giving him info on getting his five year-old (!) chihuahua fixed, that he lets run free on the street and it was the same thing. Smh...

But mostly it is hooking people up with low cost services. Most vets here charge over $100 for cats and more for dogs. But I have never heard of a community helping and learning how to hold their own clinics. That is absolutely amazing. Making communities self-sufficient is just the greatest idea.

Thanks again!

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
64. Thank you!
Fri Feb 14, 2014, 02:01 AM
Feb 2014

So kind!




This thread is so full of awesome it just shows how much people are doing in their own way. Giving as much as they can. Just wonderful!

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
62. I should add two important things to this.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:53 PM
Feb 2014

1) Respect for everyone involved is paramount. As you want to be treated, equal, however you want to conceptualize it. You know what it looks like, I bet.

2) I pay they vets their cost for a replacement vet for their office that day. The task force asks for volunteers and gives them an honorarium. Mostly semantics, I think. Maybe taxes. But along with my observation that this only works when there is mutual respect between all parties and for their fur kids, is my insistence that you NEVER, EVER ask a vet to do anything for free. That's ridiculous. They have from a half million up plus many years of their lives out of pocket to put that clinic on the corner, and they deserve their compensation.

We also provide THEIR protocol of drugs for the patients, good German instruments, decent and portable facilities for the surgery, mats for their feet, some of the cutest kids, along with school counselors, a fire department chief, or maybe a graphic designer assisting during the surgery, with an experienced tech or assistant doing the pre-op. (Usually there is another one or two floating. Depends on the day.) And someone to follow up with all the patients that night or the next day. It's about respect


Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
7. OMG, that is incredible.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:40 PM
Feb 2014

Notice how damned sad the dog in the first picture is. I wouldn't think that he could smile, but he sure can.

Well, that is one out of the millions who hit the doggie lottery. Good for him.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
8. My cat when I found her
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:41 PM
Feb 2014

could have looked like one of the ones on the left . Rail thin, patchy hair.

Now she looks like this:



And spoiled .

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
11. As a volunteer for a rescue organization,
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:52 PM
Feb 2014

all I can say is that this picture is why we do what we do. Thanks to all those who help.

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
12. Remember Patrick the Pit Bull, starved and thrown down a trash chute?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:56 PM
Feb 2014

This is him now:



Or how about Nico?



to those involved in animal rescue!

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
13. K&R And it's worth remembering that...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:58 PM
Feb 2014

you see similar results with human beings when they are not forced into desperation over affording food, shelter, and medical care; when they are ensured respect and leisure time to enjoy their families and friends and interests; and when they are not consigned to live their lives toiling for oligarchs in a constant struggle to survive and in constant terror of falling off the wheel and losing everything.

Moving pictures...Thank you. Human cruelty can be boundless. It is our responsibility to build structures and societies and cultural values that protect the vulnerable and prevent the worst of us from exploiting the rest of us.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
20. +1000!
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:09 AM
Feb 2014

Animals are not property. Animals are companions, adopted beings who depend on your care

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
17. Why I can't watch the Animal Planet channel: Animal Cops.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:49 PM
Feb 2014

I turn red with rage when I see the abuse they uncover.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
18. Not possible!
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:49 PM
Feb 2014

And if that is the case when it comes to dogs, think about what a difference a good home can make for a child.

When my oldest was a tiny baby, a friend who had raised a large family gave me this advice: "Remember, what you give to your child, your child will give back to me." I think that goes for dogs too. If you give self-discipline and love and respect to your dog, your dog will return those feelings. He will feel secure with you. I do not have a dog, but one of my daughters does. Her dog has a wonderful personality and good character. Everyone who meets the dog loves him. My daughter and her dog are very much alike -- wonderful, loving personalities and good character. Very trustworthy. That is not a coincidence.

colorado_ufo

(5,734 posts)
24. Is this really the same dog?
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:56 AM
Feb 2014

If so, that is pitiful and hopeful, at the same time!

But . . . the dog on the left, the hairless one, looks as though it has larger ears and feet, and the shape of the face is different. The markings on that dog look very, very much like a Peruvian Inca Orchid Dog, an ancient hairless breed from Peru. My best friend owned one, and I have seen other examples. It has a mouth shaped like that, as well, and has few or no teeth. And, they are very sensitive! The dog's downturned expression could be merely because he does not like being at the vet!

The above having been said, it is not my intent to disparage anyone or the situation. It just immediately struck me how much the naked dog looked like the Peruvian breed!

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
26. I am not a dog guy...
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:11 AM
Feb 2014

but that pic on the left is heartbreaking. It looks like that puppy finally got someone who cares.

irisblue

(32,980 posts)
27. sonn ovva ....
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:12 AM
Feb 2014

my rescue dog and I are under a blanket on the couch, herchin is propped on my leg.
some days I hate humans.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
32. I am absolutely appalled at how people can
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 02:28 AM
Feb 2014

neglect or mistreat animals.

While I am myself a cat person, the issue is absolutely the same here, cats or dogs.

A while back I had three cats. The first came from the local animal shelter, the second from the vet, and the third showed up on our front lawn one day, apparently having decided we were her last hope for a home. All three were wonderful, but the third was the most precious of all, because she was only about two days from dying of starvation and dehydration when we took her in.

If you've taken on a cat or dog you can no longer maintain, take it to a shelter. If it doesn't find a new home, at least it will have an easy death.

Some years ago I was a volunteer at the local animal shelter, and they had a printout about the number of excess cats and dogs. I honestly forget the actual numbers (someone here may be able to correct me) but each and every family would have to take in something like three dogs and seven cats, or maybe five dogs and four cats, to take in all the unwanted cats and dogs out there. Whatever the exact numbers, it was well beyond what most families could possibly handle, even if they were willing to do so.

Currently I have no cats. Someday I will again. Someday I will be a crazy cat lady, but that will still only serve to rescue the very small number I can take in.

These creatures are totally dependent on us. We should never let them down.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
39. omg. how can people be so horrible?
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:53 PM
Feb 2014

Shrimpy is snuggled in the crook of my elbow...getting cuddles before i get ready for work.

I'm so glad I'm able to be a good mommy!

 

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)
59. My father...
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:47 PM
Feb 2014

... the electrician/philosopher.... used to say...

"To train a dog, first of all, you have to be at least as smart as the dog."

If you see a mean/stupid/vicious dog.... well, I think you see where that's going.

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