Someone said bashing MotherrrRrrrrrussia BACKFIRED. I say BASH. BASH! BASH SOME MORE!

[cherokeeprogressive]

FUCK Russia. They hate Teh Gay. So whaddya think they feel about my Son, Charlie? Oooh... come on Defenders of MotherrrRrrrrrussia... Do tell!

Charlie was born with a vagina, ovaries, and a uterus. In fact, Charlie STILL has a vagina, ovaries, and a uterus... for a short time at least. Ya see, Defenders of MotherrrRrrrrussia; Charlie, who was born with with female genitalia and reproductive system got shortchanged somehow. I don't mean to say Male is BETTER than Female; I mean to say that psyche trumps physical makeup. Charlie has a Man's psyche. Go fucking figure, huh!? I bet that's NEVER happened in MotherrrRrrrrrussia! Nope! Not THERE!

So here's the deal, Defenders of MotherrrRrrrrussia... A Human Being, born with XX chromosomes and an XY psyche, is now undergoing testosterone therapy and on the way to Gender Reassignment Surgery. SHE, thought SHE, was GAY. Upon much reflection, discussion, therapy, and support, SHE found out SHE, was a HE. She's ALREADY a HE... because HE identifies HIMSELF as such.

So, Vladimir Putin, Torturer Supreme... What the FUCK do you and your ardent supporters think about THAT? Do you like APPLES? How do you fucking like THEM APPLES?

Boy, I bet THAT fucks with your head, NO? Keep on DEFENDING MotherrrRrrrrrussia though!

[JaneyVee]

1. Hi, Russian here. It's the Russian Govt that is the problem, Russian people are

Generally very kind, charming, and generous. But I agree, fuck Putin and the rest of the conservatives in his Govt. the Liberals in Russian Govt are all for marriage equality. The problem around the globe is conservatism.

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. Isn't Mother Russia considered a democracy these days? Don't they VOTE?

[Fumesucker]

7. Americans vote too..

You might asks some folks in Iraq what they think about the way Americans vote.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Why would I do that and what does it have to do with defending Mother Russia?

[Fumesucker]

14. Are you blaming the Russian people for what their leader(s) do?

Because if so then the American people also bear responsibility for what our leaders do.

Leaders like Dubya, for instance.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Are you saying people ALL OVER THE WORLD don't blame Americans for what

"our leaders" do?

Can you say DRONES?

[Fumesucker]

24. I'm asking if you wish to assume that responsibility

Because if you cast the responsibility upon another people for what their leaders do then you agree that is a fair assessment.

Personally I don't feel responsible for what Dubya did, I was part of the 10% that never supported that waste of three perfectly good dimensions. So I'm cautious about pointing the finger at others because I know there are three more fingers pointing back at me.

I don't think this is true of you but I get a real sense that a lot of the outrage against Russia is just sheer relief at finding someone we can perceive as even more screwed up than we are.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Shot through the heart.

My perception was and is that a whole country passing laws AGAINST sexual orientation is going the wrong way. That puts me square in the sights of your last paragraph. While I do see state by state problems here, I don't see federal discrimination in the way it's being implemented in Russia.

[JI7]

36. DADT and DOMA were the federal Govt

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Their status at this moment?

[JI7]

39. isn't this debate about blaming an entire people v the country ?

i'm not saying it's better for lgtb in russia than the us right now. it's clearly better here.

Bush caused a lot of damage around the world and it was Bush that most of the world hated. not the american people even though many voted for him the first time and elected him the 2nd time .

[Fumesucker]

40. If you wish to be judged based on what Dick and Dubya did then you're welcome to it

My perception is a whole country voting to ATTACK another country based on obvious lies is going the wrong way.

But then my perceptions are warped by being a liberal living in the South.

[JI7]

28. most people around the world actually don't blame the people for what

their government does. at least not foreign countries.

it's usually within the country that blame is put to people. and this has to do with politics of that country. like chris Christie.

there are some who would blame others and usually it's more about their own bigotry . but most don't.

[pampango]

57. What JI7 said above. Most people in other countries treat Americans well, but do not like

US government policies. Most do not blame Americans for our government's policies. Maybe that is partly because they realize that they have little influence over their own government's policies so why blame us for ours.

We should do the same with the Russian people, even while we disagree with Russian government policies.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

52. On homophobia: yes I am, he's doing it in response to their clearly-expressed wishes.

For what it's worth, my guess is that Putin is too savvy and too pragmatic to give a damn about gay rights either way - I suspect that what he mostly cares about is staying in power and making Russia powerful.

But he knows that gay-bashing is what a large (very large - someone lower down the thread cites a poll claiming 88%, although I can't vouch for that) majority of the Russian people want, and it's a good populist move.

[Fumesucker]

63. Then you are responsible for what Dick 'n Dubya did

Because at the time a majority of the American people went along with it, Dubya was up to 90% approval at one point as you may remember.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

65. Your logic, it is not like our earth logic.

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2014, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

That fraction of the American electorate which supported Bush's policies - and especially that fraction that voted for them - are, to some extent, responsible for them. That, as I recall, was a little over 50%. The remainder, of course, are not.

That fraction of the Russian electorate which supports Putin's homophobic policies - and especially that fraction that voted for parties backing them - are, to some extent, responsible for them. There's a poll downthread (whose reliability I cannot vouch for) which suggests that that fraction is about 90%. The remaining minority, of course, are not.

[Fumesucker]

67. That's not what the OP was saying, you are doing nuance while the OP wasn't

[Scootaloo]

26. You're missing what's going on...

ever heard the term figleafing? It's when a bigot exploits the cause of a targeted group in order to spread and defend their own bigotry against another group. The argument presented is basically that hatred against one group validates hatred against a different group. It's a frame often used against Muslims here on DU - There's always an excuse to hate Muslims or Arabs (and there's usually no distinction made) because of some shitpile in that group being, well, a shitpile.

The reality is of course that a group targeted with bigotry can have their cause supported without hating someone else. But when you're someone who's deeply invested in defending and spreading hate and bigotry, as many DU posters seem to be, that doesn't seem to come up.

[Fumesucker]

29. That's the way I feel about it

I guess you could call it hate the sin and not the sinner.

It seems to me that people have motives they're often not really even conscious of, I know I wonder sometimes why I react the way I do to things.

[JaneyVee]

18. Btw, I very much agree with your sentiment. And your parenting.

It is an atrocity what is happening in Russia. It has its good, but it also has its awful. Just like America.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Thank You Janey.

I can't see, honestly, how any parent with a parental instinct could feel different.

Thank you again.

[MADem]

53. It's a dictatorship. Putin has been in power almost a quarter century now.

He games the system to keep his hand on the tiller.

You have to realize, it's not about the voting, it's about who counts the votes. Joey Stalin enjoyed making that point.

That said, I think the policies of the Russian government--and the blind eye they turn towards haters--are disgraceful.

[malletgirl02]

4. Agreed Conservatives are the Problems

If things were slightly different the US could be exactly like Russia. Every time I start to feel smug I remember that, and don't rest on my laurels.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. If things were slightly different, the Earth would be exactly like the moon. n/t

[temporary311]

25. Made of cheese?

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. Pockmarked. Devoid of atmosphere. Dusty. Generally nothing more than a spectacle.

[JaneyVee]

13. Conservatism, fundamentalism, and far right groups are cannibalizing the globe.

[malletgirl02]

22. I don't agree with Russia's anti gay policies

Just so you know I don't agree with the Russian government's anti gay policies. I'm not even watch the Olympics even though I like sports due to those policies. I don't think I deserved such a flippant The reason I said what I said is that although they don't have as much power as those in Russia, there are politicians in this country with the same ideas, and if they every get power they could enact terrible anti gay policies. I was just saying we have to be vigilant.

[progressoid]

41. Poll: 88 percent of Russians support the gay propaganda ban.

An overwhelming 88 percent of Russians support the gay propaganda ban, according to a survey conducted in June by the All-Russian Public Opinion Center. A survey conducted in April by the Levada Center found that 35 percent of Russians believed that homosexuality was a disease and 43 percent believed that it was a bad habit, a result of poor parenting or a lack of discipline, or a symptom of abuse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/world/europe/gays-in-russia-find-no-haven-despite-support-from-the-west.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

To be fair though, you probably would have gotten similar numbers in the US a couple decades ago.

[JI7]

43. i have a hard time believing 88 percent and how reliable are those groups ?

i don't deny that it could be a majority but i would like to see numbers done by some other groups .

[go west young man]

44. The PEW poll in the other thread has totally different numbers

and looks highly questionable. Especially the parts about alcohol consumption, pre marital sex and gambling. They don't make sense at all. 68% of Russian identify as atheist according to the CIA fact book. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

Excerpt:

Russian Orthodox 15-20%, Muslim 10-15%, other Christian 2% (2006 est.)
note: estimates are of practicing worshipers; Russia has large populations of non-practicing believers and non-believers, a legacy of over seven decades of Soviet rule

[JI7]

45. it looks like they are not getting an accurate sampling , their polling is too focused on specific

areas where certain groups make up a large number but don't reflect the percentage as a nation.

[William769]

46. The Anti Gay law passed with a unanimous vote. Yes that was unanimous vote.

Doesn't sound to far fetched to me.

[JI7]

49. i don't think the country has fully fair elections

but i'm not denying that a large number of the citizens may be anti gay also. i would not be surprised if it was a majority. but i have a hard time believing it's as high as 88 percent.

i don't trust those who took those polls. it seems like it's an attempt by putin to try to show he is just doing what people want.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

50. No, on homophobia it's the electorate that's the problem.

It would be very comforting to believe what you say, but actually homophobia in Russia is a bottom-up, grass-roots, populist movement, sadly.

[1000words]

3. I figured the Olympics would bring on an epic DU dramafest

[bravenak]

5. I will not defend Putin or the Russian government.

I am sadly not interested in the Olympics this year. I usually stay up all night and watch all I can especially the curling.
I would hate for Charlie to live there.

[madokie]

6. You are an awesome parent

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. Thank You Sir.

[TDale313]

15. I second that :-)

Charlie's blessed to have you, and you him.

[madokie]

19. One of the if not the best OP I've read on DU

was when cherokee posted about Charlie's coming out, likewise his own coming to grips with it.
Definitely an awesome person.

[TDale313]

27. I remember that, and totally agree. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. If I had the money...

I'd buy you a dozen hearts...

KNOW I'm coming to Locust Grove someday soon.

[get the red out]

56. I agree

Your son has a terrific parent in you, you have his back!

[NuclearDem]

9. Utterly righteous rant from an utterly righteous parent, would read again.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Thank You as well Sir.

[reusrename]

54. Hi, I think I replied to the wrong post.

[TheMathieu]

16. Calling out other countries is off limits. Only bashing the U.S. is allowed.

You score brownie points if you can make absolute shitholes appear better than the U.S.

[reusrename]

55. I think many of us were just raised that way.

I know I was. That whole thing about a log and a mote.

We are holding political prisoners incommunicado. Have been for a decade. Russia's not that fucked up. We have an official policy that says "enhanced interrogation techniques" are legal.

Every country on the planet has their head in the same noose, like it or not. And all of us have some things to be proud of and some things to be ashamed of. Victories and defeats.

Y'all might try to focus the outrage just tad. Still, I do love a good rant, when it's aimed a little more carefully. Replace "Russia" with "Putin" and I'm right there with ya.

[idendoit]

21. Did they find the bolts to the roller coaster yet?

[AgingAmerican]

23. Russia has gone right wing

I feel sorry for them.

[Lint Head]

30. Also. Fuck Putin! Guess what Putty. The first two letters of your name are the same two letters of

Pussy Riot. Come to America you shirtless coward. Maybe you'd like to kiss some American catfish. Catfish are bottom feeders just like you.

[babylonsister]

31. Tell us what you really think! You

aren't going to change minds about a country.

But I love you, and Charlie. And I adore the apples that made you write this.

[LostOne4Ever]

35. To the liberals and anti-bigots of Russia, I have nothing but love;

But as for the Russian Government, and the conservatives pushing the bigoted crap going on their right now they can all go and take their Olympic stadium, turn it sideways and stick it up where the sun don't shine.

The same goes with the bigots in the Caribbean, the middle east, right here in the USA, and everywhere else in the world.

[William769]

37. Love them apples!

Unfortunately LGBT Russians only have sour grapes.

[go west young man]

42. Mother Russia died 22 years ago.

Peace to your son. All people deserve equal rights. The people of the New Russian Federation, however, do not deserve your scorn. Especially when there is so much work to do in the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
2010–present[edit]
January 18, 2010 – The half-naked corpse of Myra Chanel Ical, 51, a trans woman of color, was found in a vacant lot in Houston, Texas.[124]
March 30, 2010 – Amanda Gonzalez-Andujar, a 29-year-old Latina trans woman, was found dead in her Queens, New York apartment. The autopsy found that her attacker, Rasheen Everett, had strangled her then doused her body with bleach.[125]
April 3, 2010 – Toni Alston, a black 44-year-old transgender woman, was shot in the front door of her home in West Charlotte, North Carolina.[126]
May 7, 2010 – Dana A. "Chanel" Larkin, a 26-year-old black trans woman who worked as a prostitute, was shot three times in the head by her client, Andrew Olacirequi, after she asked him if he was okay with them having sex despite her male genitalia. She was found dead on the pavement of a Milwaukee street.[127]
June 21, 2010 – Sandy Woulard, a 28-year-old trans woman, was shot in the chest in South Side, Chicago. A passing motorist found her lying in the street, and she was pronounced dead at the hospital.[128]
October 3, 2010 – A 30-year-old male known as "la Reina" (the Queen), Bryan Almonte, 17, and Brian Cepeda, 17, were kidnapped by a homophobic group of youths calling themselves the Latin King Goonies, sodomized by foreign objects including a plunger and baseball bat, burned with cigarettes, and tortured for hours. One of the teenage victims had wanted to join the gang the attackers were part of, but when members saw him with the 30-year-old, they later picked him up and took him to an abandoned apartment and asked him if the two had had sex. When the teenager responded positively, he was beaten and sodomized. The gang later picked up the second teenager whom they had also seen with the 30-year-old and repeated the process. They then lured the 30-year-old to the building with the promise of a party. When he arrived with alcohol, the gang tied him up and tortured him and made the 17-year-old burn him with cigarettes. They then robbed the man's 40-year-old brother, coercing him by putting a cellphone to his ear so he could hear his brother beg to pay them.[129][130][131]
September 11, 2010 – Victoria Carmen White, a 28-year-old black transgender woman, died of bullet wounds in her New Jersey apartment. It is believed she was targeted by her killer, Alrashim Chambers, for her gender identity.[132]
October 14, 2010 – Stacey Blahnik Lee, a 31-year-old black trans woman, was found murdered in her Philadelphia home by her boyfriend.[133]
November 17, 2010 – 18-year-old Joshua Wilkerson was found dead in a field in Pearland, Texas, after being beaten to death and set on fire by a friend of 5 years, Hermilio Moralez. This was supposedly a retaliation to unwanted sexual advances.[134]
January 11, 2011 – Chrissie Bates, a 45-year-old transgender woman, was stabbed to death in her downtown Minneapolis apartment. Arnold Darwin Waukazo was sentenced to 367 months in prison for the murder.[135]
February 19, 2011 – Tyra Trent, a black 25-year-old trans woman, was found strangled to death in a vacant house.[136]
April 4, 2011 – Quinn Matney suffered 3rd and 4th degree burns to his wrist after being branded by an unidentified man for being gay. The attack happened while he was taking a night time stroll on his university campus in North Carolina.[137]
April 2011 – Kevin Pennington, a gay 28-year-old male, was kidnapped and severely beaten in a Kentucky park by two men shouting anti gay epithets. David Jason Jenkins and Anthony Ray Jenkins face possible life sentences for anti gay hate crime.[138] On March 15, 2012, the Kentucky State Police assisted the FBI in arresting David Jenkins, Anthony Jenkins, Mable Jenkins, and Alexis Jenkins of Partridge, KY for the beating of Kevin Pennington during a late-night attack in April 2011 at Kingdom Come State Park,[139][140] near Cumberland. The push came from the gay-rights group Kentucky Equality Federation, whose president, Jordan Palmer, began lobbying the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Kentucky in August 2011[141] to prosecute after stating he had no confidence in the Harlan County Commonwealth's Attorney to act.[142] "I think the case's notoriety may have derived in large part from the Kentucky Equality Federation efforts," said Harvey, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Kentucky.[143] Mable Jenkins, and Alexis Jenkins plead guilty.[143]
April 22, 2011 – Chrissy Lee Polis,[144] a 22-year-old trans woman, was beaten in a violent struggle by two African-American women for entering the women's bathroom in Baltimore County, Maryland, which triggered her to have a seizure. A McDonald's employee, who was later fired, filmed the encounter and released the film on the internet; it since went viral. Teonna Monae Brown, 19, pleaded guilty to first-degree assault and a hate crime in the beating, and was sentenced to 5 years in prison, plus three years of supervised probation. The other woman was charged as a juvenile and committed to a juvenile detention facility.[145] See: 2011 Rosedale, Maryland beating
June 2011 – Rosita Hernandez, a Cuban trans woman, was stabbed to death in Miami.[146]
June 5, 2011 – CeCe McDonald, a young African American trans woman, was attacked outside a tavern shortly after midnight in Minneapolis, Minnesota.[147] CeCe fatally stabbed her attacker with a pair of scissors.[148] She was subsequently convicted of manslaughter and jailed for 19 months in a men's prison.[149]
July 20, 2011 – Lashai Mclean, a 23-year-old African American trans woman, was shot to death in Northeast Washington DC.[150]
August 11, 2011 – Camila Guzman, a Latina transgender woman, was found murdered in her apartment in East Harlem, Manhattan.[151]
September 8, 2011 – Cameron Nelson, a 32-year-old gay man, was attacked at his place of employment in Utah.[152]
October 11, 2011 – Shelley Hilliard, a black transgender teen who had been reported missing, had her burnt torso identified by police in Detroit.[153] Her killer, 30-year-old Qasim Raqib, was sentenced on March 6, 2012 to 25–40 years in jail.[154]
November 15, 2011 – Danny Vega, a 58-year-old Asian-American gay man who worked as a hairdresser in Rainier Valley, Seattle was beaten and robbed as he was taking a walk. The beating left Vega in a coma from which he later died.[155]
November 17, 2011 – Cassidy Nathan Vickers, a 32-year-old black transgender woman, died from a fatal gunshot wound to the chest in Hollywood. Her killer, who is still unidentified, is suspected of also attempting to rob and non-fatally shoot another black transgender woman on the same day.[156]
December 17, 2011 – Charlie Hernandez, a 26-year-old who was openly gay, was stabbed to death following a brawl that included anti-gay slurs that occurred with two men after he accidentally stepped on some sunglasses.[157]
December 24, 2011 – Dee Dee Pearson, a 31-year-old transgender woman, died from bullet wounds in Kansas City, Missouri. Kenyan L. Jones was charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action. Jones told police he paid to have sexual relations with Ms Pearson, believing her to be a cisgender woman, but hours after having sex with her, discovered she was not.[158] Angered by what he considered to be a deception, he got a 9mm-caliber handgun, found Ms Pearson, and killed her.[159] Kenyan L. Jones was arrested on suspicion of her murder.[160]
December 29, 2011 – The body of Githe Goines, a black 23-year-old trans woman[161] who had been reported missing 2 weeks beforehand, was found in a scrapheap. An autopsy set that the time of her death as much as 2 days before her body was discovered, and that she had been strangled.[162]
January 21, 2012 – Crain Conaway, a black 47-year-old trans woman, was found dead in her home in Oceanside, California.[163] Tyree Paschall Monday was arrested in connection with her murder.[164]
February 2, 2012 – JaParker "Deoni" Jones, a 23-year-old black trans woman, was stabbed in the head while waiting at a Metro bus stop in Washington DC.[165]
February 2012 – Cody Rogers, an 18-year-old teenager, was brutally assaulted and targeted with homophobic slurs at a party after defending a female friend who was also attacked.[166]
March 24, 2012 – Several transgender and crossdressing people were shot at and robbed in Florida by a man, suspected to be De Los Santos. 23-year-old Tyrell Jackson was fatally wounded in the shooting, which also injured 20-year-old Michael Hunter.[167]
April 3, 2012 – Coko Williams, a black trans woman, was found murdered in East Detroit, Michigan. The homicide may have been related to Coko's involvement in sex work.[168]
April 16, 2012 – Paige Clay, 23, a black trans woman, was found dead, with a bullet wound to her face in West Garfield Park, Chicago. The death was ruled as a homicide.[169]
April 21, 2012 – Eric Unger, a 23-year-old gay man living in Illinois, was attacked by a group of men on the way home from a party, while they shouted anti-gay epithets at him. The investigation is ongoing.[170]
April 29, 2012 – Brandy Martell, a 37-year-old trans woman of color, was murdered in Oakland, California.[171]
May 2012 – Max Pelofske, a 21-year-old gay man, was beaten by a group of youths at a party in Minnesota. Pelofske claims it was a hate crime, but police disagree.[172]
June 5, 2012 – Kardin Ulysse, a black 14-year-old boy, was attacked in the cafeteria of Roy Mann Junior High School by another group of boys. He was called anti-gay slurs and sustained damage to the cornea of one of his eyes, leaving him blinded. Ulysse's parents planned on suing the city for failing to supervise its students properly.[173]
June 23, 2012 – Mollie Olgin, 19 years old, and her girlfriend, Kristene Chapa, 18 years old, were found shot in the head near Violet Andrews Park in Portland, Texas. Olgin died at the scene and Chapa survived. Law enforcement has said there is no evidence to suggest that the incident is a hate crime.[174] The Human Rights Campaign and Equality Texas urged a thorough investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI and Portland police to find the shooter.[175]
July 5, 2012 – Tracy Johnson, a 40-year-old black trans woman, was found dead from gunshot wounds in Baltimore, Maryland.[176]
August 14, 2012 – Tiffany Gooden, a 19-year-old black trans woman, was found murdered on the second floor of an abandoned building in Chicago. An autopsy verified that she had been stabbed to death. Notably, the body of Paige Clay, another young black trans woman, was discovered in April 3 blocks away from where Tiffany was found. The pair were known as friends.[177]
August 18, 2012 – Kendall Hampton, a 26-year-old black trans woman, died of gunshot wounds. Eugene Carlos Dukes was arrested in early September for her murder, and indicted later that month.[178]
August 26, 2012 – Deja Jones, a 33-year-old black trans woman, was shot to death in Miami. No arrest has yet been made.[179]
September 3, 2012 – The body of Kyra Cordova, a 27-year-old trans woman, was found in a wooded area in Frankford, Philadelphia.[180]
November 15, 2012 – Janette Tovar, a 43-year-old trans woman was murdered by her partner, Jonathan Kenney, according to police, who beat her and slammed her head into concrete. He was later arrested for her murder.[181]
March 1, 2013 – Sondra Scarber addressed a parent about her girlfriend's son being bullied at Seabourn Elementary School in Mesquite, Texas, and was beaten by him when he realized that she was a lesbian.[182]
May 17, 2013 – Mark Carson, a 32-year old black gay man,[183] was shot to death by another man who trailed and taunted him and a friend as they walked down the street in Greenwich Village, New York. When the two friends ignored the assailant's questions, the man began yelling anti-gay slurs and asked one of them, "You want to die tonight?" Elliot Morales, 33, was arrested briefly after the shooting and charged with murder and weapons charges on May 19.[184] According to police, Morales said he shot Carson because he was "acting tough".[185] Morales pleaded not guilty on June 19, 2013.[186]
November 4, 2013 - Sasha Fleischman, an 18-year-old who identifies as genderqueer (neither male nor female), had their skirt set on fire while they were sleeping on an AC Transit bus in Oakland, California. Police arrested 16-year-old Richard Thomas and charged him as an adult with aggravated mayhem, assault by means likely to produce great bodily injury, and hate-crime enhancements. Thomas admitted to police that he had started the fire and that he did it because he was "homophobic."[187]

[Donald Ian Rankin]

51. So about 10 episodes a year in a nation of 350,000,000? Try again.

Trying to substitute anecdote for data and emotion for logic is contemptible, I'm afraid.

If that were the extent of anti-LGBT violence and discrimination in the USA I'd be cheering it on as the most gay-friendly country on the planet.

Unfortunately, it isn't - there's a lot more than what you list. But there's still a lot *less* anti-gay discrimination and violence in the USA than in many other countries, including Russia.

Also to describe the transition from appalling dictatorship to - admittedly massively flawed - democracy as the country dying is just insane.

[joshcryer]

58. The US is on the correct trajectory, though.

Russia is regressing like the Regan years.

[IAmKirak]

47. Glass houses

[Jesus Malverde]

48. Russia Declares Discrimination Newest Olympic Sport

Over the top or well deserved...

[Bluenorthwest]

59. The people defending or excusing the bigotry are the ones who hate Russians, they hate

LGBT Russians so much that anyone who speaks out for their LGBT Russian brothers and sister is instantly set upon and attacked verbally, just as the LGBT Russians are being attacked physically and with ugly laws, their behavior here toward equality advocates reflects the behavior there toward LGBT people.
People who say 'I love Russia and Russians' but defend laws that are anti Russian are plowing difficult row, hard for them to openly say what they mean which is that they love straight Russians only.
The LGBT community is international, so all the nationalistic blather from the defenders of the anti gay law is meaningless noise. One is either for universal equality or not. The defenders of these laws are not for universal equality, and their insistence that criticism of a fucking set of laws is tantamount to criticism of the people is nothing but an aggressive defense of those ugly laws, they attempt to hide the wicked laws behind the people for protection.
I have never met any people other than the couple of anti gay law defenders here on DU this week who make the claim that any criticism of their national policies is equal to criticism of the people and the culture. This is a brand new and absurd claim. A needy, petulant claim intended to intimidate and silence anyone who criticizes hateful laws. It is a creepy and shameful way to attempt to cover up a great wrong.

[go west young man]

60. It's not as you want to paint it.

Here's the better approach to changing Russian minds. Help them, instead of bashing the whole country.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024480724

Does this infant and family deserve to be told "fuck Russia and Russians"? I think not. I believe in being constructive and kind not being rude and painting a whole nation with a broad brush. Hearts and minds comes to mind.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. You are hilarious, really.

I repeat, it is you who are very comfortable with these anti Russian laws in Russia. I am defending Russian LGBT people, you are defending the laws against them.
I repeat, I have never met anyone other than you and the others defending this here who make the claim that any criticism of laws or persons in their country is the same as 'hating the people as a whole'. It is a specious and absurd call for special treatment you claim that government should be allowed to pass heinous laws, take the world spotlight and not face any criticism of the laws. You are defending a law that allows harm done to Russian people.
Wailing that your politics and politicians are above questioning and criticism is an admission of failure.

[davidpdx]

62. ...and so it countinues

The apologist even asks for your money. What is that old saying about the best intentions?

[seveneyes]

61. Mother Russia

[Pretzel_Warrior]

66. Keep the pressure on! Putin is bad news.