Typical Moron FL Jurors Deliberating 9 Hours Already

[SoCalMusicLover]

Got to make 100% sure the Racist with a Gun hard on, did not have even the slightest justification for blowing away 17 year old black kid.

2000 Election.....Casey Anthony.....George Zimmerman....Michael Dunn.... Florida. If America was a person, Florida would be the poop coming out the backside.

[cthulu2016]

1. Criticizing a jury for being deliberate is really foul

[SoCalMusicLover]

9. I'll Wait To Reserve Judgement Then

Sure, I'm biased, because I see through this guys' lies and invented scenario. But the fact they're still deliberating going on 10 hours, means that they are not as certain.

Deliberate is one thing, but deliberate passed a few hours ago. 10 hours means they're either struggling to reach a unanimous verdict, or they're on the verge of acquitting.

But we'll hopefully see justice served, that's all I care about. This guy should not get away with just shooting someone because their music was a bother. If he does, it just tells me that it's basically open season in this country, which is not that big a surprise really.

[geek tragedy]

2. There were four kids in that car, so they have to assess his actions and his state of mind

not just in general, but also as they specifically related to each person in that car.

Was he trying to kill everyone in that car, or was he just shooting at the driver, or was he just busting off shots like a deranged maniac?

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. Would any of those scenarios make a difference?

should he not be found guilty in any of them?

[geek tragedy]

14. he's obviously guilty of some form of criminal homicide.

But, the degree of the offense can vary, especially from person to person.

If the facts indicate that he was only shooting at Jordan Davis, then they might convict on that count and acquit on the charges of attempting to murder everyone else in the car. Or they could find that he was trying to shoot and kill everyone in the car, so murder plus attempted murder charges.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. What options have the jury been given?

I have been on a murder trial jury so I kind of have an inside view...

[geek tragedy]

22. I dunno how many lesser-includeds have been put before them. nt

[arthritisR_US]

28. VR, I thought they had been given murder 1,

murder 2, and manslaughter. Same thin for the attempts (minus the manslaughter for those).

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Okay it seems you are correct...thanks..

Dunn is charged with first-degree murder, which could result in a life sentence. The judge instructed the jury, however, that they could also consider lesser charges, including second degree murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide or excusable homicide.

Interesting...

[arthritisR_US]

41. I think the only thing he's guilty of is murder 1

and first degree attempted, 3 counts.

[bravenak]

3. No shit.

I'm mad at Florida this year. And last year. And the year before that for taking forever to count the votes. And the year before that for cutting polling. And for Rick Scott. I'm sure theres more. The beaches are beautiful though, too bad I'd be scared to buy a pack of gum or skittles in that state.

[Isoldeblue]

6. Hey, try living in this

cesspool. If I could live elsewhere, I would. I never feel clean, no matter how often I shower....

Btw, our city (Pensacola) has won the first spot for a number of years for the worst city water in the US. Well, not so much now, after WV.

[bravenak]

12. I'm sorry. It's sucks to be in a place that doesn't represent you very well.

You can come up here. We have plenty of room and clean water. Depending on what you do you may find a company that will pay to move you. I worked for a company that did that all the time. Then you can just go home for the beaches.
I feel for the people in Florida. All that beauty, all those republicans.

[Isoldeblue]

55. Ahhh, bravenak, thank you.

I'm an old retired lady who moved here because of family. Our two sons wound up having great jobs here, so no matter where I'd live, I'd miss them and our four fantastic grandkids, 6 thru 11. They love their Nana!

Our sons tried hard to find jobs in their fields up north, but no luck. So we are resigned to reading bible verses on the sides of truck doors and on signs in front yards with crosses, etc. And of course the Palin bumper stickers.... Oy vey.

We are a tight liberal and loving family. That is a blessing and I know we are extremely fortunate about that. So it could be much worse.

But the water part does really get to me.... I can't imagine what the poor people of WV are going through.

[bravenak]

59. Goodness.

I can't believe they still have the Palin stickers on. Embarrassing.

I'm glad you have your grand babies, hold them tightly. I think this case has woken Florida up to the stand your ground nonsense.

I wish we could send water to WV, somebody needs to be arrested for what they did out there.

[NCTraveler]

4. Beautiful places with amazing ecosystems.

You should visit Florida sometime. Jumping on a jury for deliberating is kind of low class.

[Warpy]

52. ...much of which is figuring out how to kill and/or eat you

People who were born in Florida and think it's where good people go when they die say all the nuts roll down to Florida.

I was born there and my parents retired there and I've had 40 years to realize why I'd never live there.

[NCTraveler]

57. I love Florida. Truly love it.

I have traveled a lot of the country, could move anywhere I want, and choose to live here. Don't get me wrong, there are many good places to live in other states. Probably all of the states. I have the bay one mile to my east, the gulf one mile to my west. Amazing food, entertainment, and people. Wonderful history, the Everglades, Keys, St. Augustine. Really to many good things to really start a list. Did I mention the people. You will find some of the most amazing people in Florida.

I do love this phrase: "all the nuts roll down to Florida"

[SoCalMusicLover]

5. He's Guilty As Sin

This case is even clearer than Zimmerman. And that was a farce. How they could be deliberating for 9+ hours thus far, is beyond me.

Only in America's justice system can someone invent a weapon and threat out of thin air, and use it as complete justification for unloading a weapon on an SUV filled with teens, resulting in the death of one of them.

Fantasy becomes reality, and the jury must decide the case based on the Fantasy facts.

If they don't convict this guy, it is further proof that nothing has changed. Blacks are still the ones to be feared, certainly not the hot headed white guy with the concealed weapon. I guess I should be thankful that I'm white.

[pintobean]

7. I hope your fate is never in the hands

of the type of jurors you wish on others.

[SoCalMusicLover]

15. I Hope I'm Never On Trial For Killing A Teenager For No Reason

I'm not a scumbag like Michael Dunn. Never committed a crime, although I did receive a citation in 1989 for possession of a joint.

[arthritisR_US]

45. I don't find him harsh, he was just following

the logical evidence and not buying into the lies Dunn made up.

[libodem]

8. Wonder if the tables were turned

And an African American fired into a car of Anglos? Wonder if that would take 9 hours? I freak out over the inequities.

[freshwest]

26. Would he have even made it alive to the jail? I think about that, too. n/t

[In_The_Wind]

30. Probably not.

[libodem]

36. No kidding

All those shots fired and not one cop shows up? No 911? How does that even happen? I'm still very stirred up over the lack of justice for Trayvon Martin. More like apoplectic but you can't let hate poison your being. Well, most of the time.

[arthritisR_US]

47. I don't recall anyone in the store yell "call the

police boys are being shot at". Perhaps I missed it but I found the reactions missing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. including those three people and his girlfriend as witness's this time...

I cannot say that the girlfriend testified in his defense....

So what does it take?

[freshwest]

46. What does it take for him to walk? A jury that ALL laughed at a joke about cleaning up the mess

from killing someone with a gun or some other weapon.

That jury is beyond 'tainted.' They should have all been dismissed at that moment for their attitude about killing.

Where have we heard a court room laughing before?



George Zimmerman defense attorney Don West began his client’s murder trial with a disastrous attempt at humor, but on Wednesday, fared better as straight man. While questioning Zimmerman’s Seminole State College criminal litigation professor, Alexis Carter, West asked if a person should have to wait “until you’re almost dead before you can defend yourself,” to which Carter replied “No, I would advise you probably don’t do that.”

The line got a laugh from defendant George Zimmerman, who otherwise has displayed little emotion during his many hours on camera during the trial.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-zimmerman-laughs-in-court/

And this jury also thinks that killing is funny. What kind of judge allows this behavior?

I've never seen such a thing in a court of law unril Zimmerman. Now we have the laughing hyenas sitting on the jury in this case.

They'll be complicit in this crime if he walks.

JMHO.

[Keefer]

10. I don't see

premeditation here. It happened too fast, unless prosecutors can prove he "has his eye on them" before the shooting.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. He is not charged with first degree...

[SoCalMusicLover]

20. I Think He Is

They have the right to consider either 1st or 2nd degree as I understand it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. I am pretty sure it was 2nd degree...

I don't think pre-meditation is required for 2nd degree...

[Keefer]

31. "Dunn is charged with first-degree murder, ..."

Verdicts the Jury Can Consider

Dunn is charged with first-degree murder, which could result in a life sentence. The judge instructed the jury, however, that they could also consider lesser charges, including second degree murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide or excusable homicide.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/michael-dunn-jury/story?id=22495493

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. Yes I was mistaken....but I think it is easily 2nd degree murder...

[arthritisR_US]

37. Ya he is, as he should be and I believe guilty of. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. But I think it is easily 2nd degree....

but if there is a racist on the jury holding out...that might cause a hung jury...so there is also that.

[aquart]

76. They were told premeditation could be a matter of seconds.

They may be battling that out.

[JCMach1]

64. He is charged with 1st degree...

[geek tragedy]

17. going back to get your gun=premeditation nt

[SoCalMusicLover]

18. So You Think Manslaughter 2?

Non-premediated manslaughter? If it's enough to keep him locked up for the next 20-30 years, that would be ok with me, given the fact he's 47 now.

[Diamonique]

24. I can see premeditation here.

It doesn't take a long time. Those types of decisions can be made in a split second. This was explained in the prosecuto's closing arguments and the judge's jury instructions.

[arthritisR_US]

51. BINGO! nt

[freshwest]

56. And in his own words. Quotes from his letters to his grandmother at Huffpo:

The jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these (expletive) idiots, when they're threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior.

I'm really not prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug 'culture' that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable. They espouse violence and disrespect towards women. The black community here in Jacksonville is in an uproar against me -- the three other thugs that were in the car are telling stories to cover up their true "colors."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/jordan-davis-shooter-michael-dunn_n_4123805.html

He felt he was going to teach the black community by killing some of them. For playing music he didn't like, when he could have driven away. He started this, and then he drove away and ordered a pizza. Apparently, he felt pretty good about it.

It wasn't like they were at this home, but a public place. His rights were not being violated. If he walks, it's a big step back to when whites could just pick blacks off like ducks in a shooting gallery at the circus. Open season on whoever an armed white person decides needs killing.

As far as that culture goes he's talking about, I don't care for it either, but it's not just blacks. On the occasions I hear it in a parking lot, it's very young whites playing it.

My response on hearing the misogynist profanities from a vehicle parked next to me one day was to grin about it. As I got into my car with a friend I said, 'And they wonder why they can't get a date!'

I didn't get out of my vehicle and try to enforce my disdain with a gun, because I am a responsible adult. People can enjoy the free world if they can control themselves in society. Prisons are available for those who indulge in the kind of thinking Dunn has.

JMHO.

[JCMach1]

66. Exactly, he chose to fire 9 shots as the kids were speeding away...

fully intending to kill

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. You do know that there's a lot of charges for them to consider, right?

1st Degree Murder, 2nd Degree Murder, Manslaughter, Attempted 1st Degree Murder, Attempted 2nd Degree Murder, Attempted Manslaughter. Plus a couple of other charges that I don't remember off the top of my head.

Yeah, Dunn appears guilty as sin to me. I would certainly vote guilty on what I've seen. But can you at least wait until they render a verdict before you continue to slander my state? And also understand the simple concept that jury deliberations aren't typically an hour long affair?

I mean, really SoCalMusicLover. Do you really want me to lash into citizens of California for the Rodney King verdict? Or call your state excrement based on a couple of shitty jury verdicts?

[SoCalMusicLover]

29. My State Embarasses Me Plenty

We just had a jury that let off police officers who beat to death Kelly Thomas. Clear as day they were guilty and they killed him, pure and simple.

Hopefully you are right, and they are just going through all the charges, rather than struggling to determine whether he's guilty.

As magistrate said, he's guilty as sin. Debating and deliberating for the sake of deliberating does not make sense to me when the facts and inconsistencies in the defendant's story are fairly obvious to most.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. Deliberations can take a long time. Long deliberations don't necessarily mean one thing or another.

No need to go full state-slander for a mere lack of patience on your part.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. I have been on a murder trial jury....

We were informed that manslaugher conviction means that we had to believe that the victim "provoked" or had some part in the killing...

The OTHER White jurors (the accused and victims were both Black) believed that even if the victim tried to call 911 on him ....that was enough to consider it "provoked" (this was in South Carolina by the way). Because they were afraid to charge him with murder even though they believed he had done it. I am convinced because the victim was Black. I am positive if that had been a White female victim instead...they would have had no problem with a murder conviction....

[The Magistrate]

25. Deliberations Should Not Have Taken Longer Than a Cigarette Break, Sir

Guilty as sin.

[Keefer]

35. They have a lot on their plate:

Verdicts the Jury Can Consider

Dunn is charged with first-degree murder, which could result in a life sentence. The judge instructed the jury, however, that they could also consider lesser charges, including second degree murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide or excusable homicide.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/michael-dunn-jury/story?id=22495493

[The Magistrate]

39. Guilty Of Murder In The First Degree, Sir

Guilty of all counts of attempted murder.

How long does it take to say 'guilty' in chorus? Multiply that by four or five.

A cigarette break, no more is needed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

42. Going through the verdict forms alone would probably take an hour.

And while I don't think there's any doubt as to Dunn's guilt, the fact that the jurors may be hung up on 1st Degree versus 2nd Degree is a legitimate one, and could take a while to come to a consensus.

Patience. All in good time.

[The Magistrate]

44. Fair Enough, Sir

Still, it ought to have been long since wrapped up. This amount of time indicates at least someone thinks he just had to shoot those *******....

[onenote]

62. some evidence to the contrary

Jurors from the second Phil Spector trial deliberated for 30 hours and convicted him of second-degree murder in the death of Lana Clarkson.

Scott Peterson was convicted of first-degree and second-degree murder for killing his wife and their unborn child. The jury deliberated for seven days.

After four days of deliberations, the Menendez brothers were convicted of two counts of first-degree murder for killing their parents.

[Logical]

77. What is the "sir" deal? n-t

[blueridge3210]

81. It's his schtick. NT

[Logical]

83. OK, thanks! n-t

[OregonBlue]

32. If he was black and the kids were white, the jury would have convicted in 10 seconds flat.

[Boom Sound 416]

40. I'd like to see one case where that happened.

[TheBlackAdder]

54. It doesn't happen. The black guy would get shot while handcuffed or 'fall' down the stairs. nt

[Boom Sound 416]

60. Of course.

But id doubt he'd get that far. The judge would just throw the gavel, but mid-flight knives would spring out of it. And then lethal gas would fill the courtroom and only the white people would have masks and exits, because they were in on it. And just in case none of that works the whole building is wired to go.

It really does happen all the time. Stupid media just sits on it.

[dilby]

61. This guy was found not guilty.

But it was New York and not Florida.

http://rochester.twcnews.com/content/news/490926/jury-finds-roderick-scott-not-guilty/

[Boom Sound 416]

63. 19 hours deliberation - fail. Stupid Florida for being in New York

When it was supposed to be in Florida.

[dilby]

72. Yeah I am not sure if the results would have been different if it was in Florida.

New York is more progressive than Florida and and I think the case had little to do with skin color over did the man feel threatened enough to use deadly force. I am not up to date on the Florida case but from some of the things I have read I am not sure the guy truly felt his life was in danger, at least his actions after the shooting did not show it.

[Swede Atlanta]

43. Have you ever sat on a jury?

I suspect not but if you did I respectfully suggest you did not appreciate the gravity of your responsibility. That is especially true in a case like this that can incarcerate a man for the rest of his life.

I firmly believe that Michael Dunn is guilty of 1st Degree if not 2nd Degree murder and not entitled to the Stand Your Ground defense as provided for under Florida law.

But any quality jury will carefully consider the judge's jury instructions as they begin deliberations. They are charged by state law to consider all allowed evidence and apply it to the criminal law and to any affirmative defenses such as 'self defense'. They should carefully consider each of the prongs of the possible criminal charges to see if the fact support a finding of guilty.

If they don't find the facts support a finding of guilty on Murder in the 1st Degree they move on to the next lesser charge, etc. If they conclude that the facts do not support any of the potential criminal charges they will find the defendant not guilty.

If, however, they find the defendant guilty on one or more related charges the state has made its case. But they must then move on to consider any affirmative defenses such as 'stand your ground'. They must carefully go through all of the prongs of that defense to determine if the facts establish the defendant is entitled to that defense.

If they find he is entitled then they must refer back to the jury instructions. In most cases this will require them to issue a finding of not guilty. If they find he is not entitled to the defense then he will be found guilty.

It is easy to sit in an armchair and criticize the jury but if they are doing their job they should deliberate carefully. Mr. Dunn is, until proven otherwise, innocent. He deserves our presumption of innocence regardless of whether I think he is guilty as sin or not.

Too often in racially or otherwise "charged" cases juries have not taken the time necessary to fully consider all of the evidence, the charges, potential defenses and jury instructions and issued a verdict which, in hindsight, was wrong.

Let us have some confidence in the jury.

[pintobean]

49. Good post.

I've sat on juries and have yet to encounter any morons. Finding consensus among 12 people on so many questions is very difficult. It's easy for anonymous individuals to pass judgement on a message board - they don't have to sign anything.

[blueridge3210]

50. Excellent work!

I fully agree with your summary; we should all be wary of wishing for "quick justice" when tempers are aroused.

[Boom Sound 416]

48. Because SOCAL is such a bastion

Of love and post racial utopia

[JRLeft]

53. I could be wrong, but a posted a couple of days ago that the jury will probably acquitt or be hung.

[lancer78]

58. 34 pages

of jury instruction takes a while to go through.

[SoCalMusicLover]

65. Still Thinking It's A Bad Sign

I'm not on the jury, and I am biased in my opinion. But the longer they are out, the more it points to either an acquittal or perhaps even more likely, a hung jury.

The civil attorney for the Davis family was just on HLN, and in his opinion, the worst that will happen is that the jury will be hung, not that there will be an outright acquittal. I find the fact he even brought it up to be a sign that it may be more of a possibility than anyone believes.

[JCMach1]

68. It is the same State's Attorney who botched the Zimmerman case... so am I hopeful???

[Boom Sound 416]

69. It's just

State Attorney

The state's attorney is one hired by the state

And states attorney is for multiple states

[Tommy_Carcetti]

70. A lightning quick conviction would not have been good in this case.

You'd have people claiming the jury verdict was illegitimate and simply a payback for Zimmerman's acquittal.

Right now, Michael Dunn is so much damaged goods that even the gun lovers on the right are going No True Scotsman on him. But a super quick conviction would probably turn the guy back into some sort of martyr for the right.

Better that it is a full deliberation. Trust me on that.

[SoCalMusicLover]

71. Conviction Is The Key Word

Your whole argument falls apart if there is an outright acquittal or even a hung jury.

Approaching 11 hours now, we are long past the "quick conviction" stage. Yet, there is still no verdict.

[pintobean]

74. .

[Iggo]

82. You sure about that? Conviction being the key word, I mean.

Sounds like speed is more important to you.

Patience.

[JustAnotherGen]

73. We are watching Headline News

If what this neighbor of his is saying is true - this man is a menace to society.

[1StrongBlackMan]

75. I understand your tribuation on this ...

but, in fairness to the jury, they do have a lot of charges to wade through.

[malokvale77]

78. I'm still trying to figure out...

which is worse, Florida or Texas.

[MuttLikeMe]

79. "Only in America can a dead black boy go on trial for his own murder"

- Syreeta McFadden

[MrScorpio]

80. I'm withholding any judgement about the jury until AFTER the verdict is read

Just sayin'.