Michael Dunn is not going to walk.

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2014, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

He is going to be convicted of felonies.

It is unknown exactly which felonies, but one of them will be intentional murder.

Maybe he will be convicted on all charges.

Maybe he will be convicted of one count of second degree murder and some reckless endangerment and assault and discharging a firearm recklessly and such charges.

Either way, he will be a convicted murderer with aggravating related offenses, and looking at prison term longer than his remaining natural life. (The legal distinction between first degree and second degree murder is small. The majority of murder convictions are second degree.)

There is no plausible good outcome for Dunn. Not being death penalty eligible is about as much potential upside as I see for him.


IMO

(As for the time the jury is taking—they have some easy charges and some difficult charges to decide. For instance, the attempted murder charges for the three people in the vehicle who were not shot are somewhat subtle, legally. A jury could talk about that for a long time... whether Dunn had the specific intention of killing each individual in the vehicle and such, and that will have to be established with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. That he acted with depraved indifference to the welfare of those three is clear cut, but that's probably a separate crime. If not attempted murder, is it assault? Yes. Which class of assault... And so on. Lengthy deliberation of the whole package of charges does not, to me, imply ambiguity about the primary charge.)

[bigdarryl]

1. Never underestimate the igorance of a Florida jury

Wouldn't surprise me the least if he is found innocent

[Isoldeblue]

5. So true.

What seems obvious and appropriate to us, is another story with Fl.. Remember Casey Anthony? And stomach churning Zimmerman? Go figure.......

Racism runs deep here and justifies everything that is insane.

[JI7]

9. what i'm hoping is if there are any non racists

on the jury they don't let the racists pressure them as happened with that one minority woman on the zimmerman trial.

hopefully the reaction to the zimmerman trial will make them see and how zimmerman has continued to be a piece of shit.

[Isoldeblue]

11. From what I've gathered,

that same Z prosecutor did a shitty job again of presenting this case. They didn't put his jail letters filled with racist crap into evidence to serve as motive. So I'm not holding much hope. If there are any non-racist jury members that try to hold out, then it may be a hung jury.

Florida is like a different country compared to the NE or western US. There may be people from all over the US living here, but it does little for diversity or for culture sake. I don't know why.

I've heard the joke often that it's a culture shock for those moving here. And the reply is, what culture?

[JI7]

20. there are people who get more upset when you bring up racism

they start complaining about the race card. the thing is that with racists it wont do anything.

this case is pretty simple but if there are people who don't think he is guilty it's because of racism.

[davidn3600]

19. Both those cases were weak

The Zimmerman verdict was not a surprise to most legal experts. The way Florida's self-defense and SYG laws are written, they favor people like Zimmerman. The problem is the law, not the jury. It's not the jury's job to fix a bad law.

With Casey Anthony, the case was weaker than the media was letting on. It was overcharged which created a bar that the prosecution found difficult to achieve. The prosecution mainly focused on Casey's attitude and behavior after the death. And the forensics left open reasonable doubt. The jury decided that a person's actions afterwards is not enough proof, and decided to acquit.

This is the problem with media-driven cases. In America, we dont try people in the media. They are tried in a court of law according to how the laws are written. When a jury goes to deliberate, they are given jury instructions by the judge. In those instructions, it explains the law and what must apply to reach a particular verdict. In most situations, the prosecution needs to prove x, y, and z beyond a reasonable doubt. If they proved x and y, but not z, then the jury has to acquit. Now, a jury does not have to follow these instructions. But usually they do follow them.

[Lil Missy]

2. Was 2nd degree murder one of the options for the jury? Or was it 1st degree murder the only option?

[alsame]

3. Murder 1, Murder 2,

Manslaughter and Attempted Murder on 3 counts for the other kids in the car.

[cthulu2016]

4. Lesser includeds are always available in Florida

[Swede Atlanta]

6. I hope you are right....

I watched some of his testimony the other evening and it was clear to me he was lying. But we have to realize that Casey Anthony walked, George Zimmerman walked, etc.

So I have to hope this is a quality jury that will do the right thing and convict this man and throw him into prison.

The conviction will never bring back this young man but it may serve as a deterrent to other nut cases and maybe even start a dialogue in Florida about the law.

I have every confidence Charlie Crist will be elected as governor in November and perhaps he can work some miracles on the state assembly.

[MoonRiver]

10. Neither Anthony or Zimmerman took the stand.

Big difference. Plus the evidence is simply overwhelming in this case. It was not in the other two cases.

[SoCalMusicLover]

14. If It's So Overwhelming.....Why The 11 Hours Of Deliberations?

11 Hours seems like a long time for a jury to be out, especially when, as you put it, the evidence is simply overwhelming.

[MoonRiver]

15. Well, I'm not on the jury.

There may be debates about whether 1st or 2nd, and then there are the 3 attempted murder charges. I could, obviously, be wrong, but I do believe he will be convicted of murder, probably murder one.

[Isoldeblue]

18. There are several counts to decide beside the big one.

And you can be sure that the jury members that are bigots will be holding out and working double-time in trying to get him a lesser conviction.

[Isoldeblue]

16. It would have been different maybe, if

if more evidence had been presented. But much was held back or presented in a poor way, in those cases as well as many others.
Especially for that black woman who really did stand her ground, shooting at the ceiling, not her abusive ex, but still got 25 years. She's getting a second trial, but I can't get my hopes up. All that history tells me the DA and prosecutors are probably racist as well.

[SoCalMusicLover]

7. Florida

Taking anything that involves this state for granted, would be a mistake. This is the wonderful state responsible for Shrub and his brother Jeb.

[bermudat]

8. That's what I thought with the Trayvon Martin trial.

Just being black is frightening to some white people, and justifies any action.

[SoCalMusicLover]

12. Race Matters

Black and at least partially to blame until proven otherwise.

Michael Dunn is not on trial here, so much as the dead kid is.

Make Dunn black and the 17 year old white, and we have a conviction yesterday after some brief deliberations.

[MoonRiver]

13. True and tragic in so many ways. n/t

[Kurovski]

17. he did not seem so much frightened as consumed with hate

I think that's the ticket all around.

Please, loud music?

Some folks seem to need therapy so they stop projecting on an entire race. Get down to what the fuck is really the prob.

[cthulu2016]

23. I was not surprised Zimmerman walked and would be shocked if Dunn walked

The Dunn case is many times stronger, and the crime far more clear cut.

Dunn has not self-defense argument at all unless the jurors believe that they themselves would have seen a gun where there was no gun. (The reasonability test)

[geek tragedy]

30. Only takes one white juror who's afraid of young black men. nt

[Bettie]

21. In almost any other state, I'd agree

But Florida...I'll believe it when I see it.

More likely, I will not be surprised and he'll be a free man.

Plausible in Florida is a different animal than elsewhere.

[Cali_Democrat]

22. 50/50 chance he gets off scot-free

mainly because of the fact he gunned down an unarmed African American kid.

Being black and young is a crime to some folks.

[kelliekat44]

25. I think he walks. I don't think he should but I think he will. nt

[davidn3600]

24. Jury is done for the day...will continue deliberating Friday morning

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/13/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/index.html

[trublu992]

26. Here's Hoping

[SoCalMusicLover]

27. Hung Jury

You can have dinner at the Courthouse, and then continue deliberations tonight.

Jury: No Thanks, we'll just go back to the hotel and call it a day.


Either they really love the food and rooms at the hotel, or they're divided.

Surely there will be a resolution tomorrow. They will be up to at least 18 hours by then.

[geek tragedy]

28. Some bullshit like manslaughter, he does 3 years and then is out.

This jury is taking way, way too long. At least one holdout likely.

[Rex]

29. I don't see how he can.

Yet I won't take a guess, people are too unpredictable.

[Enthusiast]

31. Even nut case Ann Coulter thinks the fucker is guilty!

She said so on HLN's Dr. Drew yesterday evening. I was shocked.

I now understand that Michael Dunn was also in possession of a gun silencer.

Did you hear the interview with Dunn's ex-neighbor? The neighbor claims that Dunn asked him if he knew of anyone that could do a hit job for him.

This Dunn guy is a certifiable racist nut case.