Meth Panic! The Surprising Truth About America's Most Vilified Drug

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/meth-panic-surprising-truth-about-americas-most-vilified-drug




You might have seen the billboards or Facebook ads, sponsored by the Montana Meth Project, depicting scabbed, wrinkled faces with rotting teeth and the words “Meth: Not even once,” plastered across the bottom of the frame. Or maybe you’ve heard the media horror stories about how addictive methamphetamine, or “meth,” can be and how recklessly it "destroys young lives."

It’s easy to fall for the emotional hysteria surrounding meth, since these days it's the drug warriors' scapegoat drug of choice, but there is no empirical evidence to support the claims that meth causes physical deformities, rots your teeth or that it’s even close to as addictive as it's made out to be.

Columbia University psychology professor Carl Hart—author of the book High Price—has released a new report via Open Soceity Foundatins titled “Methamphetamine: Fact vs. Fiction and Lessons from the Crack Hysteria” to address the overstated perceptions of the problems associated with meth. He argues that the dangers of meth are exaggerated today just like the dangers of crack were blown out of proportion three decades ago.

“I just want people to understand that we’ve seen this movie before, so just be aware that’s what’s going on [with meth] and try not to fall into that trap,” he said.

[hobbit709]

1. About 30 years ago I watched a panel discussion on drugs.

What struck me was that one psychologist was saying what the government clown did not want to hear.
He stated that the percentage of the population with the so-called "addictive personality" had remained unchanged for 50 years, the only difference was that there were more things for them to be addicted to now.

[madokie]

2. I've seen a lot of meth heads in my day

working in hard work environments seemed to bring out the drug in a lot of people who used it to help them make it through the day. I know way more who continue to use the drug than I know who quit once they started. Personally I never liked it so I didn't try it but for a couple times. When I did I felt great for about 20 minutes then I spent the next three or four days wishing I'd never did that shit. Now that I'm older and in a family I'm not around those people anymore. Thing is I can spot a meth head a mile away and be right most times.

Since I used to be a drinker I can spot people who are drinkers a mile away too. Smoked that old devil weed for 40 some odd years although I no longer can or do I still can't really spot a pot smoker.

Damn I wish I could still smoke pot though

[Logical]

12. Edibles? nt

[madokie]

13. Its still in your system

The reason I had to quit is because I have to have pain meds due to PAD. The last doctor visit I was told that it was a decision of which I wanted, pot or pain meds. Pot helps but not like the pain meds do.

Like I told the doctor I'd love to not have to take the pain meds but there is no way I could do that. The pain I have is 24/7. Resting or walking it matters not as the pain is there. In one foot it feels like I'm walking over hot coals with needles sticking up in them while a car is setting on it, the other one is not so bad.

[Nika]

3. I strongly disagree with apologists for this poison.

I worked in the woods planting trees and fighting fires for years and many of those I worked with had meth problems. Many of those people are dead, others are horribly perma-tweaked. The chemicals used to make meth should be banned outright. I strongly support doing this.

[Eleanors38]

8. Prohibition is a hopeless, but expensive, entetprisr.

[Nika]

78. No it's not. Get rid of the chemicals produced to manufacture it, you've killed meth

Pseudoephedrine's demise would mean no cold medicine as well, but that would be a small price to pay to rid ourselves of methamphetamine's destructiveness. The ban would have to be an international one, but considering the cost of having meth around the sacrifice of the medicine would be worth it.

And I don't think anything less then a total ban would work because the profit from making and selling meth is so great, they will always find a way to get pseudoephedrine if it's manufactured anywhere.

[bravenak]

86. There are many recipes for meth.

If you take one precursor they will just go to a farm and steal the other precursor and make biker meth.
Pseudo ephedrine is not necessary for meth production.

Ask Walter White aka Heisenberg.

[sir pball]

94. Pseudoephedrine is by no means whatsoever the only way to produce meth.

Sure, it's the easiest route, but meth is, in the grand scheme of synthetic drugs, laughably simple to make. You're going to have to ban matches and liquid ammonia (one of the more common fertilizers out there) to eliminate other known, clandestine, routes - and even then, the Market will find a way. Like you said, the demand and profits are so high, you'll end up with people cooking it from "scratch" and you'll never, ever, get a ban on benzaldehyde and nitromethane, let alone toluene and rubbing alcohol.

And yes, I know what I'm talking about - my BS in in chemistry.

[cthulu2016]

109. Wildy misinformed person has strong opinion

[Nika]

127. I do have strong opinions.

I'm not up on my chemistry perhaps, but I do have many friends dead or perma-tweaked from meth use. That is the reason for my strong opinions. I also was in jail four days one New Year's Day weekend when a meth user used my stolen driver's license in a traffic stop in next door Washington State getting a ticket on my license. I cleared it up, but I lost four days and money for the tow that I never got back because of typical tweaker ID theft and inconsideration.

I have a strong hatred of meth and no respect for tweakers. So it goes.

[Eleanors38]

118. Just more labs & smuggling. How can this instant prohibition be any different

from the others?

[wilsonbooks]

11. I agree 100%. I live in rural Missouri

and see the ravages every day. The people who make this stuff use a toxic mix of hazardous chemicals.

[kelliekat44]

31. I agree with you. The meth-heads i know or have met are zombies...they look horrible. I don't

think anything is being exaggerated about meth.

[Comrade Grumpy]

95. I guess you wouldn't notice the meth users who don't fit your stereotype.

If you're really interested, there's a new book out on the social construction of drug panics, "Meth Mania: A History of Methamphetamine," by Nicholas Parsons, from Lynne Reinner Press.

[Zorra]

67. +1. Should I believe the author, or what I have seen firsthand, repeatedly, in real life? nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

93. This "poison" is also a Schedule II controlled substance available by prescription.

While the use of amphetamine-type stimulants like meth can and does create various problems, we, as a society, may be better off just prescribing it to the people who want it.

What would happen?

You would have some people with problematic meth use. Just like now.

But the form of ingestion could change. Why stick needles in your arm when you can just swallow pharmaceutical grade Desoxyn (pharmaceutical meth manufactured by Abbot Labs)? Form of ingestion in important. Injecting and smoking are the most dangerous.

Acquisitive crime related to buying black market meth would decrease dramatically.

Environmental issues related to home meth labs would decrease dramatically.

People who have nothing to do with meth could buy their Sudafed without a bunch of bullshit or an expensive doctor's visit.

We would quit sending a bunch of people to prison for years and decades for ingesting or cooking up their substance of choice.

Mexican drug cartels, the main beneficiaries of our meth precursor laws, would lose a big market.

Funny, that would take us back to the late 1960s, when prescription meth and other amphetamines were more easily available.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. For the record, I've never used meth. I have known many people who

have, however, and many of them have become addicted with terrible consequences for themselves and their families. I'd be willing to bet that the meth they are using is not the same as the meth used in these controlled tests.

[Eleanors38]

6. "meth they are using is not the same..." Argument for legalization...

When the law is applied in the public interest, questions of potency, adulteration, contamination can be addressed so the user is better protected than he/she is under the present scheme.

[nomorenomore08]

34. +1

Prohibition just doesn't work. Even for the bad, scary drugs.

[MrScorpio]

5. Perhaps the picture is distorted...

But whatever it is, I seriously doubt that I'd ever want a tweaker in my house.

[Iggo]

23. You're right. You don't.

[tridim]

7. Dangerous article IMO.

Meth is poison. It kills your spirit if not your life.

[albino65]

25. agreed

[Major Nikon]

40. The bigger danger is not telling the truth about drugs

Eventually people find out the truth and when they learn that most meth users experience very little detrimental effects, and quite a few positive ones, then everything anyone in authority has ever told them about the drug becomes a lie and will be completely disregarded.

[tridim]

41. You might want to talk with JackInGreen.

Poison has no positive effects.

[Major Nikon]

46. Then why does the military hand it out like candy?

[tridim]

47. Because they're idiots?

They hand out antidepressants and Oxycontin like candy too, and create lots of addicts.

[Major Nikon]

53. So do you think we should just wipe out all those drugs?

Meth is also prescribed under the trade name Desoxyn.

[tridim]

55. No, I think the military should not hand them out like candy.

As I said.

[Major Nikon]

57. Certainly not a bad idea

But it doesn't change the fact that there's also many positive outcomes that those drugs produce. Many will take them, relatively few will have problems. This is true for just about all recreational drugs. When you put out the message that anyone who does it once will destroy their life, eventually people are going to figure out this is not true and that is a very dangerous thing.

[Comrade Grumpy]

96. Poison? It's available by prescription. It's called Desoxyn.

And its use has probably been involved in building more stuff than you can imagine.

[marble falls]

44. Agreed and how.

[Lochloosa]

9. "just like the dangers of crack were blown out of proportion three decades ago"

I CALL BULLSHIT ON THIS.

My son has been fighting a crack addition for 10 years.

If meth is even in the same ballpark as crack, the danger is all to real.

Put the pipe to your mouth Mr. Hart and let me know how that works out for you.

[Major Nikon]

43. He's not saything that some people won't experience extremely detrimental effects

He's saying that not everyone will. Lots of people have severe problems with alcohol addiction. That doesn't mean that everyone who drinks will. Drugs like meth and crack will have a percentage of users that become severely addicted, but it won't come anywhere near all the people who use.

[panader0]

10. Disagree

I, like madokie, know/knew, many meth heads in the trades. Most, if not all have lost their teeth and look like hell.
Lost their homes and families to that scourge.

[madinmaryland]

123. So we bust them and make them felons? We have seen how that works out.

I don't have a problem busting them, but get them treatment, not make them felons, where they will never be allowed to participate in society.

Fuck that.

[sorefeet]

14. Never tried the shit

but like madokie I have been around the block once or twice and I know lots of people who got into thestuff. It has ruined most of them and I have buried several. One just this week at 54 years old. The poison ravages the organs. I actually believe the DEA has brought much of it into Billings area. Job security.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. The empirical evidence I have is about twenty personal acquaintances.

Add to that maybe fifty people I only knew tangentially.

I don't know a single person who uses/used it whose life hasn't been negatively impacted by meth.

What a bullshit article.

[zipplewrath]

80. Bullshit analysis

Actually, your analysis is bullshit. Your problem basically is "sample bias". You are only considering the population of people who are meth heads or otherwise clearly were negatively impacted. What you don't know is all of the people you "only knew tangentially" that were not negatively impacted because you may not know that they had been (or currently were) users.

What the gentleman is suggesting, from the point of view of someone who has actually done something more than an "anecdotal" analysis (which is what you did) is that the numbers don't lie. We consistently hear about these drugs that are more dangerous. But the reality is that what they are is "more dangerous" for certain people. And those populations can be relatively small, and contain large numbers of people who abuse a wide variety of substances.

I've know anorexics, but it is a very small population of people that did "extreme dieting". I've know people who abused alcohol, but it was a very small portion of people who "ever got drunk". I've known sexually active people, but not all got STD's. There are extremes in anything, and then there is the larger population, and all this guy is saying is that meth is in a larger class of substances that are abused and have severe side effects, but it is no worse than that larger class.

[reddread]

82. horse shit n/t

[zipplewrath]

83. Um, okay

But you might want to consider for just a moment that someone who has studied the situation may have superior knowledge over someone who "knew people tangentially".

[Comrade Grumpy]

97. Brilliant refutation. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

90. My "bias" is borne of too many speed hangovers to count.

I bought it, sold it, snorted, and smoked it. I got out of bed at 3 in the morning and went to places most people wouldn't dare and bought it from people your Mom told you NEVER to talk to.

I'm one of the few people I know who escaped from it's grasp before losing someone or something near and dear to them.

How's that for an anecdote?

[zipplewrath]

112. Exactly the definition of acnecdote

That is exactly what we are talking about. You are talking about a sample size of one. The guys point is that in large sample sizes, like the population of the US, this drug isn't any worse than many others in its category. It's just cheaper.

[cherokeeprogressive]

116. Got it.

[pipoman]

16. truly written by someone who has never known addiction

To claim meth isn't addictive tells me that the author is a know - nothing. Been there, done that. Don't believe these lies.

[Comrade Grumpy]

98. I don't think Dr. Hart claims meth is not addictive. His claims are more nuanced.

He's a neuroscientist who has studied this stuff, and yes, has experience with addiction. I heartily recommend his "High Life," a fascinating mix of autobiography and ruminations on drug science and drug policy.

This is a guy who has been studying drugs and addiction for years.

[2pooped2pop]

17. bullshit

watched several people get on this shit and yes it rots your teeth. Yes, you pick at your face and lose enough weight to look skeletal. Yes, you will trip on it after several days.

I see peoples lives destroyed daily because of this drug. It may not be heroin but it is a destroyer.

[theHandpuppet]

33. +1000

No way, no how. That crap is poison and this article is bullshit.

[Arkana]

18. Um...we're not seriously going to get into defending meth use, are we?

Weed is one thing, meth is another.

[xchrom]

19. no...and that is not what the article is about.

policy should be based in reality -- and in the case of drugs -- health and harm reduction should be goal posts.

[TheSarcastinator]

42. you're not seriously engaging in reduction to absurdity, are you?

Yes, yes you are.

[deutsey]

20. When it comes to drugs

we either go to one extreme like "Reefer Madness" in the '30s, "The Hippie Temptation" in the '60s, Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" appearances on TV shows like "Diff'rent Strokes," to this kind of laissez faire attitude toward drugs.

As someone who grew up in a family where one person struggled with a destructive drug addiction and as someone who also knows many people who manage their moderate drug use rather well, I believe the truth is somewhere in between the two extremes.

[xchrom]

22. thank you! nt

[gollygee]

37. Good post

I agree. The truth is somewhere in between. Less dangerous drugs like marijuana, and drugs that are very dangerous and really ruin lives like meth, are two entirely different things and should be treated differently.

[questionseverything]

106. plus one

k&r

[ileus]

21. Yes...Meth is safe and good for you too.

It's getting hard to find good cheap drugs. There has to be something affordable out there for the rest of us....

[TheSarcastinator]

45. another brilliant reducto ad absurdum

Do the hardline Prohibitionists on this site have anything to say that is even remotely factual or logical? Anything that doesn't rely entirely on pathos & anecdote?

[snooper2]

50. LOL, really?

back in the day we would do some blow every once in a while party hard on the weekends...

A couple times somebody would have a little ice(meth), and do a line of that shit and BAM--

MORE MORE MORE...I thought running out of blow in the middle of the night was bad but meth will fuck you up.


meth is cocaine on fucking steroids

[Nika]

79. Meth is not cheap. It exacts a heavy cost on the mind and body.

many of the people I worked in the woods with in Oregon are dead or badly perma-tweaked from meth use. I see nothing cheap or good about this poison.

[justabob]

24. meth is not like pot

Now, there may be myths and bad info about meth, but that shit should should be avoided at all costs. It is a ruiner of lives and souls. I was in that life for a while, and it took almost a decade to recover from the people and events of that time. It is dangerous deadly stuff and the less of it around the better for everyone. Having said that, prohibition isn't going to fix it... neither is locking up all the sudafed and whatever other products that make meth.

[FSogol]

26. By golly, Ron Paul is right! We should legalize the stuff! Freedumb!

[Bandit]

28. In my day we had a saying..."Speed Kills"

[tridim]

29. IMO this is also why "Breaking Bad" was a bad influence.

I know it didn't glamorize meth, but it did normalize it.

The subject matter was disgusting enough that I couldn't even watch the show, and made me wonder why people did.

[TheSarcastinator]

32. because it was well written and acted

I hate to tell you this, but meth was a normalized part of the US long before the show -- the show occurred because of meth in US culture, not the other way around. Do you also refuse to watch films like "The Godfather" & "Goodfellas"?

It is interesting to me that you call the show disgusting while your avatar is from one of the filthiest and most obscene shows on tv: one that has helped "normalize" pedophilia with the constant presence of a bathrobe wearing old neighbor who always trys to molest little boys. Now THAT is disgusting to me, but each to his own, I guess.

Intellectual consistency is a challenge for us all. I'm certainly not excluded from the power of cognitive dissonance.

[tridim]

35. Did we really need to learn about how meth is made and sold?

Is that information beneficial to our culture? I say definitively, no.

BB normalized something that didn't need to be normalized, but I don't deny the show was well acted.

I don't like most movies with excessive, gratuitous violence, and I avoid movies that glamorize mafia life. So no, I didn't enjoy The Godfather or much else in that genre.

[TheSarcastinator]

48. so art must be "good for culture"? congrats, comrade

You just defined Soviet era agit-prop. Another brilliant Prohibitionist response: just pretend it isn't there!

[tridim]

54. Of course not. I have no problem with the show, just the subject matter.

I don't think BB should have been banned, I just think it was a bit more empty than most people realized... Probably because it was well acted.

I've never been called a commie before. Wow. DERP.

[XemaSab]

63. If you didn't watch the show, then how can you comment?

Meth ruined the lives of everyone on the show.

[tridim]

64. I tried to watch it a few times.

And stopped because of the subject matter.

It's just my opinion.

[TheSarcastinator]

30. most folks here won't be able to see past their own perceptual filters

enough to understand how accurate the doctor's analysis is. Is meth dangerous and can it cause health issues? Sure, but the most serious parts of those problems come from its illegality and clandestine production, not from an inherent quality in the drug itself. Illegal meth messes you up because it is made with garbage in amateur labs; just like bathtub gin used to make people blind during Prohibition of alcohol.

There is a lot to learn from the over-hyped crack cocaine "epidemic". No, crack isn't good for you and yes, it is addictive, but many more problems were caused by its Prohibition and the hyperbolic rhetoric of "crack babies" -- a completely manufactured crisis based on faulty cause and effect, mistaking poverty of the mother and prematurity of the birth for the effects of a drug that rather conveniently found a locus within the African-American community.

Prohibition and illegality is never the best solution. All narcotics possession should be decriminalized and Harm Reduction policies need to be adapted for all major communities in the US. Addicts are not and should not be treated as criminals -- they are ill.

Portugal has proven the truth of this: they cut the rates of narcotics addiction in half over ten years through decriminalization and Harm Reduction policies.

But don't worry, I would never expect sanity and decency to make its way into US law.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. I agree with some of the points that you make, however, I seriously doubt that

the doctor's analysis is based on the street variety of meth that is available to most users. My experience has been watching friends and acquaintances ruin their lives with the homemade version which is pure poison. Perhaps the effects would not be so bad if they had a more pure variety of the drug to use. I can't see that any of them would have been helped by being reminded to get enough sleep and to eat better.

[JackInGreen]

39. So Sarcastinator

Lets go tweaking and rolling with my old crowd, often only the finest lab produced prope-dope and not a worry in the world about your personal health and safety, what do you say?

[TheSarcastinator]

49. I say that's a reduction to absurdity

No one here is defending meth use. You're making a completely dishonest argument.

[JackInGreen]

58. No, I'd like to see

you engaged with myself and that group when under the influence of some really high grade, 'safe' shit. I want to see what you have to say or what your opinion would be within the safe (to ourselves) environment we bred for a few days up and rolling.
I think you'd not be quite so academic.

[snooper2]

51. when is the last time you did a line?

[TheSarcastinator]

56. Years ago

Did it a few times. Never robbed anyone, raped anyone, suffered any ill effects or addiction.

Sorry to disappoint you, Prohibitionist. Keep trying with the personal stuff, though. It's a great way to discuss public policy.

[snooper2]

61. "prohibitionist" LOL

Personal experience is pretty fucking key when talking about drugs and their effect on society.

Meth, Crack and Heroin should never be "legalized"- They should be decriminalized...Those three drugs destroy people

All other drugs should be treated like booze- I've never heard of people becoming addicted to shrooms LOL



You ever trip by the way? (acid/shrooms)? I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that when I woke up late the next morning I didn't say, damn, I need to drop a hit!

[MicaelS]

65. If drugs should be decriminalized but not legalized..

Then there is still going to be a demand that the criminal element is still going to supply with all the associated problems that brings. There are always going to be people with addictive personalities. And there is no reason that the majority of people who are not addictive personality types should have to suffer the actions and effects of the criminal elements because of the demand by those who have addictive personalities.

Let the hardest drugs be legalized. Let them be heavily regulate and taxed, with the purity and the sales controlled strictly by the government. Let them only be sold in pharmacies at a fixed price throughout the country. No advertising or trademarking. If making those hardest drugs legal means that some people are hurt by using those said drugs, than that is the price we will have to pay to get the criminal element out of picture.

[snooper2]

66. I don't think you are following-

When you smoke a little bit of crack, or do a little line of meth-

As SOON as it starts wearing off you want more...It's all bad. legalize the lighter stuff and maybe kids will never have the need to try the hard shit.


I REALLY don't want to go to CVS and have a fucking line of crack heads out the door for my daughter to walk past just to get a bandaid LOL

[Mariana]

104. Once upon a time, milder amphetamines were fairly easy to get.

Clean drugs in standard dosages. You could get addicted and destroy your life with them if you tried hard, or you could die from overdose, but compared to meth, they were pretty benign. The war on drugs took care of all that, and now we have shitty backwoods made meth everywhere. Are we better off?

[Egalitarian Thug]

122. Overwhelmingly, the illegality of drugs causes more harm than the drugs themselves.

As you note, nobody is saying meth is harmless or good, but that doesn't even slow the shout-down.

[JackInGreen]

38. I beg your pardon

but from personal experience....deep personal experience...I call BULLSHIT.

[TheSarcastinator]

52. yes, government by personal anecdote is best

Your personal feelings, addictions and history are a poor guide for public policy.

Harm reduction is proven to work. Prohibition has failed and will continue to fail. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. This is also the definition of the War on Drugs.

[JackInGreen]

59. On a more serious note

I agree that harm reduction is the best policy, the bad bit is, I can't see any reduction of harm with Meth. I knew folks that had survived, dealt with it, maintained their habit in a 'healthy' way for years.
Uniformly they were unable to care for themselves without some form of care giving (be it partnership like a spouse or in most instances, the adults lived with their senior citizen parents) and often were prone to volatile (if not outright violent) mood swings and outbursts.
I don't agree that prohibition is the final solution for drugs such as meth, but I'm afraid that your personal experience is wanting and that the claims made in the study you listed are optimistic at best, foolhardy at worst.

That offer still stands, come live in it, and we'll see where you come down.

[madrchsod]

60. really? this study must have taken place on mars...

from my observations over 40 yrs is that humans are just a tad bit different than martians.

[Le Taz Hot]

62. Well, I'm old enough to have known several long-term meth heads

and every one of them EVERY. ONE. OF. THEM. had rotten teeth and the ones who have gotten that far, have died early. I mean REALLY early, like in their 40's and 50's. I've taught students who have been long-term meth heads and there are sections of their brains that just don't flat function anymore. Things that they used to know they don't know anymore and have to relearn. I went to school with a gal who was addicted to diet pills (in the 1970's) who, by the age of 19, had to have what was left of her teeth pulled and had to have dentures. At 19.

Now, I've known long-term heroin users that used regularly, held down middle-class jobs and no one knew they were addicts. I've known people who were addicted to sleeping pills, to alcohol, and to cigarettes and NONE of those substances had the affect that meth has had. I know this is just anecdotal evidence but I call bullshit on this author. I've known too many people, including in my own family, whose lives have been devastated by this drug.

[reddread]

74. no kiddin. the scabrous, desperate souls in line for free sweets, rather than a meal will spook ya

having experienced the hallucinatory nonsense that stuff elicits in soon to be EX-long term friends,
seen the sketchy thought processes and abominable "parenting"?
It would be one thing to call out the racist roots of the massively hyped "crack epidemic" drug war,
law enforcement/judicial/prison industrial complex cover ops.
It is the complete opposite to speak well of this dark, dark menace.
someone needs to be pilloried.

[Feron]

132. You should meet my uncle.

He's 50, but looks at least 20 years older. What teeth he has left are the shade of baked beans. Cognitively his brain is pickled (think Reverend Jim from Taxi) and he's consumed with acquiring money for his poisons of choice. He's been homeless more than once because he'd rather use than have a roof over his head. My uncle has also been arrested multiple times for various infractions.

His poisons of choice? Alcohol and cigarettes.

Currently he's in hospice dying of throat cancer. The fact that he made it to 50 is amazing in of itself.

Addiction is a lot more complex than "this drug is bad, let's ban it!" or addicts are weak. I don't pretend to have an answer to ending addiction, but I do know that prohibition only makes things worse. Decriminalization and easier access to rehab facilities would be a great start. Giving an addict a rap sheet isn't going to help with the job situation either.

There was a study recently that determined that poverty impacted a child far more negatively than being born a crack baby. I often wonder if the explosion of meth has more to do with mentally escaping poverty rather than the drug itself being hyper addictive.

[Le Taz Hot]

133. I'm not arguing prohibition.

I'm taking exception to the author's assertion that meth's purported consequences (bad teeth, etc.) is a myth. I countered and added other consequences I had observed over the years and with various groups.

I know alcohol addiction all too well. I parted ways with my best friend of 30 years about 3 years ago because of alcohol. She'll be 73 this year though I've no idea how she's made it this far. Her days go something like this: wake up, have coffee. Have coffee with Bailey's or Kahlua in it. Switch to Mamosa's/Bloody Mary's/Screw Drivers. Switch to Mai Tai's/Daqueri's/Margueritas. Then, along about 4:00, you get to the serious drinking. She downs a 1.75 liter bottle of Brandy every two days. Her health problems are multiplying. She's been ordered to stop drinking (she hasn't), she's been ordered to be on oxygen (she refuses) and she's slowly killing herself. This is all due to alcohol and to say it breaks my heart is an understatement. I miss my friend, but she's no longer even remotely what I've always known and loved about her. She's someone else.

[nilesobek]

68. Tons of kids take Adderal,

which is made from 3 different kinds of pure methamphetamine salts. If it was so bad for you, why do millions of Americans give it to their kids? So, I do believe the hype is outrageous.

I haven't been to the doctor in a long time, but the last time I went he tried to put me on all kinds of weird medicines and I turned him down flat. I told him, "i only want drugs that make me feel good, like pot, morphine, coffee, xanax and top shelf rum." I would never take any of the current quack pharma offerings. I respect myself too much.

[Go Vols]

69. Most are not reffering to pharm quality

Back in the '60s and'70s you could go to a "speed Dr" and get desoxyn,100% methamphetamine.I never remember people with rotten teeth and the other horror stories.
If made with ingredients from the local hardware store or walmart,its not the same thing at all,that shit is poison.

[nilesobek]

70. Yes, the black market stuff is bad.

They make the current street meth using Rain-X and all kinds of crap. Real poison. Thank you for differentiating between those two things. I've known people who have went on Adderal just for an energy increase and really good weight loss results without wild side effects.

[Recursion]

128. The rotten teeth aren't from the meth

They're from mountain dew, Skoal, and no dental care.

Meth has been shown time and time again not to have an impact on enamel damage or tooth decay.

[WatermelonRat]

115. First, Adderall contains Amphetamine and Dextroamphetamine

NOT Methamphetamine. There is a difference between the substances.

Second, the amount taken as a prescription is far less than what is taken for recreational use.

Third, there actually is quite a bit of concern about abuse of Adderall. I take a related drug, Vyvanse, and there is a lot more paperwork and regulation involved than with any of my other prescriptions. On top of that, I can only get a month's worth at a time, instead of nearly a year's worth as with my other prescriptions.

[Jesus Malverde]

71. Meth not even once...

Scourge of the gay community...

I usually like your posts....

Sinaloa cartel is shitting cause they're gonna lose their cash crop. Gotta make up for the loss somewhere.

[Comrade Grumpy]

99. The Mexican cartels are major meth producers, and they benefit from our prohibitionist efforts.

All these laws we come up with to make it more difficult to make meth, I have a generic name for them: The Mexican Methamphetamine Market Share Enhancement Act. Because that's what they do.

We tried to crack down on speed pills in the 1960s; we got biker meth.

We tried to crack down on biker meth; we got cocaine. (And, oh, yeah, we got recreational speed after we cracked down on cocaine back in the day).

We tried to crack down on biker meth, and we got pseudoephedrine meth, and then we got "ice."

We tried to crack down on P2P meth, and we got people doing shake-and-bake one-jar cooks. They're essentially supplying their own needs, but we treat them like drug manufacturers, and they leave environmental messes.

We tried and tried and tried to crackdown on meth, and now we get bath salts. See how that works?

[Jesus Malverde]

100. They successfully cracked down on the precursors for barbiturates.

I know what you mean about the black market. The largest cash pile in drug history was related to ephedrine importation.


206 million in cash... all I want is that small pile of euro's.

[Comrade Grumpy]

102. We have an enduring appetite for both uppers and downers.

Yeah, barbiturates are pretty much history now, but other drug emerged to fill the void. Remember 'ludes? Then we got rid of them (unless you come across some South African Mandrax or something), but now we have Valium and Prozac and those nice prescription opiates.

But we loves us some stimulants. Starbucks. Energy drinks. No-Doze. Adderall. Meth. Cocaine.

[dionysus]

72. i take it he's never actually seen a tweaker in person...

[reddread]

75. safe bet n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

77. At least the hard core tweakers advertise

By the scabs on their face..

From urban dictionary and so truly capturing the soul stealing nature of the drug.

What's the difference between a crackhead and a tweaker?
The crackhead will steal your shit and bounce (run away)--the tweaker will steal your shit and then help you look for it.

[dionysus]

81. old neighbor of mine was married to a tweaker.. she was always screaming at him.

had the tell tale facial scabs, and all her front teeth were chipped....

[Jesus Malverde]

84. 0% fat in the face is another sign...

sucks all around.

Oh the shadow people....they are watching me!

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48313

[dionysus]

120. yup, the sunken eyes, the hollowed out face... the walking dead in real life.

[Jesus Malverde]

73. Makes you a better shopper...amirite...nt

[Jesus Malverde]

76. What's in shake and bake meth...

If you want to put any of that in your body, you must be suicidal...yuck

[Xithras]

87. I've lived near Methdesto too many years to believe this shite.

When ranked per-capita, Modesto's crimerate ranks among the top 4% of cities in the nation, and the top 2% in California. It's no coincidence that the Central Valley is also ground zero for the meth wars.

30 years ago before meth, Modesto was a fairly quiet agricultural city with a low crime rate and a quality of life that was envied by other cities around the state. Nowadays? Not so much...

One of my sisters best friends was stabbed to death at a gas pump by a junkie spinning on meth who wanted $5 that he didn't have. My wife was raped by a mentally ill psychopath high on meth. One of my cousins lost half his teeth to bad meth before he cleaned up, and he still has problems with his nerves because of it. I learned recently that almost ten percent...TEN FUCKING PERCENT...of the people in my graduating class are DEAD because of meth (my graduating class of 1992 had 341 graduates...32 of them became meth junkies and are now dead).

There's a reason that many of us in meth infested areas refer to meth as the "Jenny Crank Diet". It absolutely DESTROYS your body and mind. And this idiot wants me to believe that meth's dangers are overstated?!?!!?!

[dilby]

88. Sorry I have seen the affects of Meth.

And watching a person age 20 years in 2 is not pretty. And ask any former meth user about their dental bills.

[840high]

91. I know a young woman who

lost her teeth, aged to where she looks like a haggard 60 yr. old. She walks around parking lots in shopping centers and gives blow-jobs in cars to support her habit.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

89. It is soul destroying that the progressive "litmus test" has become

one's level of enthusiasm for enabling personal self-destruction.

It has long since overshot "harm reduction" into "Lethal Narcotics, Fuck Yeah!" territory.

[JoeyT]

92. I'd actually agree with him.

Of the people that I know that use meth, about half descended into soul crushing addiction, the other half just use it to screw off on the weekend. I've seen plenty of people destroy themselves with plenty of different poisons to latch onto one poison and claim it's The One Ring.

As usual, the answer is to fund rehabilitation programs and offer people help getting off of it.

[Blue_In_AK]

101. I've done meth (pharmaceutical) and I've done cocaine,

never smoked or shot up either, and never became addicted, but I've known and been very close to plenty of people who did and totally ruined their lives or at least wasted huge chunks of them. There's no way I would ever say that these are not dangerous drugs.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

103. I live in Iowa.

Meth is evil. I have been to funerals involving everyone from lawyers to blue collar types.

[Comrade Grumpy]

107. Ever been to the funeral of someone who died because of alcohol?

Booze is evil.

Seriously, calling a drug "evil" isn't very useful. They're not radioactive. They just sit there...until people decide to ingest them.

Is meth "evil" when it's prescribed by a doctor? It is a Schedule II controlled substance, known as Desoxyn.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

110. I'm not talking about stuff made in a controlled environment.

I'm talking about the stuff made in sheds and from Mexico. I'm against the war on drugs but I don't take meth lightly because I have seen first hand what it does.

[TwilightGardener]

105. I worked with a woman who went to jail for possession and distribution of meth.

She looked like death, acted weird. Not sure if I ever saw her under the influence directly, but she was not well. Then there was that young couple in Nebraska who got stranded in a snowstorm, meth-addled and thought the cows were black people who were ignoring their pleas for help--they died. Nope, it's bad stuff.

[ohheckyeah]

108. It would be nice to see some

peer reviewed scientific studies instead of his laboratory studies and a bunch of anecdotes.

Anecdotal "evidence" isn't acceptable on DU for alternative medicine but evidently is okay when it's an unpopular drug.

[Le Taz Hot]

134. When the anecdotal evident is overwhelming,

even as a scientist, you could hardly call yourself legitimate if you choose to completely ignore it.

[rustydog]

111. I've seen the damage caused by meth with my own eyes in the ER for decades

Actually, I dealt with a guy in the ER last night...the horror stories are true. It ruins you physically, psychologically, economically.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. Meth is particularly nasty in what it does to peoples' bodies, and brains.

One interesting aspect of the meth problem that I don't see addressed enough, IMHO, is the socio-economic reality of people doing meth to maintain, for instance, 2 or 3 min. wage jobs. There aren't people out doing a 'woo-hoo' party thing, they're just trying to keep up enough energy to work the graveyard shift at the kwik-e-mart.

A sub-livable min. wage, no benefits...
I think this feeds into the societal problem.

[DebJ]

114. The real tragedy of substance abusers is their perspective

that they must chemically alter their brains in order to enjoy life.

My God that is so sad, so tragic, so sick.

[DonCoquixote]

117. which one of these involves making explosives (warning, graphic video)

a) growing pot
b) cooking crack
c) making Meth

answer: C

That alone means it deserves more attention than pot. But wait, there's more

It makes chlorine gas (aka a weapon of mass destruction) Thery have to use Hazmats to shut the labs up

http://www.dss.mo.gov/cd/info/cwmanual/section7/ch1_33/sec7ch27.htm

Cheech and Chong never risked blowing up my neighborhood.

[dionysus]

119. actually the space coke seemed dangerous :P

[davidpdx]

125. I didn't watch the videos, but I have heard about meth labs causing damage to neighborhoods

If the chemicals are not handled properly they can be dangerous. Even in cases where there is no explosion or fire, once a house has had a meth lab it isn't safe to live in unless it is cleaned up well.

[cherokeeprogressive]

121. How many people who've either DONE meth, or KNOWN meth users in this thread

have validated the BULLSHIT findings of the author and AGREE that there's a "hysteria" surrounding tweakers, and that METH is being scapegoated?

Gee... I'm SORRY I ever told a bad story about a TWEAKER... Fuck me. Ya know... being a former TWEAKER MYSELF You'd think I'd know better than to speak badly about people who would steal from their own Parents and their own CHILDREN to get that next line.

[davidpdx]

126. Frankly I think it is nice that people with direct experience can share them with us

I can't imagine how terrible it was. I personally have never known anyone that has done meth so my knowledge about it is pretty much nil. My home state (Oregon) is one of the ones with a serious meth problem. I live over in South Korea and the drug laws here are very strict. It is also more difficult (though not impossible) to get drugs into the country.

[Marrah_G]

124. Bullshit

[Democracyinkind]

129. Depends on the risks you're willing to take...

I wouldn't recommend smoking the kind of meth that is sold on the streets.

If you're in with the cool kidz at the chemistry department though...

I agree with the overall argument in the article but it is a fine line between injecting reality into the discussion and downplaying the risks associated with drug use.

[Shrike47]

130. For many years, I represented Oregon DHS in termination of parental rights cases. Meth is awful.

People abused their children in ways I would rather not describe while under the influence of meth. Women debased themselves. Both men and women had the teeth problems, facial sores, the feeling of something crawling under their skin so they scratched and cut at themselves. They would run for days and then crash (of course babies don't understand why you don't feed them for a day or two).

There are a lot of mind-altering substances out there. In my experience, meth is the most dangerous. Heroin is more addictive, but heroin users don't abuse their children.

[Ghost in the Machine]

131. What a load of shit!! I see methheads every day where I live, and the epidemic is so bad they call

us Meth County instead of Meigs County. This is the 4th smallest County in our State, one of those that everyone knows everyone and most are related by blood or marriage. I just turned 31 wednesday, and I know people 20 years younger than me who look my age if not older. We moved here from Miami, Florida when I was 13, and I moved back to Miami within a week of graduating high school in May of 1981. Well, actually, I walked out of school the day I turned 18 in Feb. My dad was already back in Miami working on a job there, but was coming into town that day to be there for my 18th b'day.

When I broke the news to him that I had quit school, 3 months shy of graduation, he told me "Well, if you're not going to go to school, you're going to go to work!" I told him I was fine with that, then he asked if I wanted to go back to Miami with him and work there. HELL YEAH I DID!! I *hated* this little po'dunk town! At 13, it was pure culture shock to move here from Miami! Hell, we had MALLS that were bigger than the City Limits here at the time. He called the Union Hall the next morning and they said I could come work on the same job with him as a "pre-trainee", which was just another word for "pre-Apprentice", and I fully intended on joining the Apprenticeship Program anyways. My first job with them was at the Turnberry Isle Yacht & Racquet Club at Aventura in North Miami Beach, right on the Intercoastal Waterway.

I worked my ass off, mainly to prove to myself and others that I wasn't there riding my dad's coat tails, or just because of his name and who he was (Former President of the Union & also served on the Executive Board and was being asked to run for President of the Local again). To make a long story short, around the end of April, the General Forman came to me and said "Kid, I'll make a deal with you. It'll be harder to get into the Program without a high school diploma, so if you go back home, finish your last month of school and graduate, you have a job with me as long as you want it. I'll pay your way home, and back, if you graduate."

I took him up on his offer and went back to Tennessee and finished school. I had been a straight A student up til the day I walked out, and had never officially "quit". I just left at lunch on my b'day and never went back. Even though I had missed a little over two months of school, I showed back up, did my work (still straight A's) and passed the semester exams, my grades were still high enough to graduate without having to do summer school. Then I was gone again, back to Miami and back to work. Ok, even shorter version now.

I spent many years in Miami/Homestead/North Miami Beach & Hollywood. Got into a lot of crazy stuff, Lived through the cocaine cowboy & biker stages, got older and had kids. Miami was getting really bad by then, and I decided that I was going to move back up here when the kids were old enough for school. Then along came Hurricane Andrew and I lost my home and everything I'd worked for to it. I moved my plans forward a little bit, first moving to Georgia, then back here to Tn in 2002. I was in no way possible for the changes that had happened around here, even though I came for a few weekend visits and stayed with some family here when I did.

The town itself hadn't changed much, but meth had taken its death grip on the people here. I saw people I graduated with, and they all looked 20 years older than me, except for the few who stayed away from the shit. Several classmates had died from overdoses, or car accidents from falling asleep after being up for a 4 or 5 day binge. The same went for people I knew who were anywhere from 1 to 4 years behind me in school. Hell, one of my kids' teacher didn't show up for class one Monday morning so they had the cops do a welfare check on him since he hadn't called in and they couldn't get him on his home or cell phone. The cops found him slumped over his computer dead, with a bag of meth and a pipe on the desk.

I have seen the effects first hand on how it ages people beyond their years as far as looks. The last time I checked, Coleman camp fuel, anhydrous ammonia, battery acid, match heads and striker plates weren't on the top of the list of wrinkle removers and/or beauty creams, either. Speaking as someone who once had a $1,000/day cocaine habit, I don't understand how people can, and do, willingly put this shit in their bodies... Where we were once in the news every day, averaging 4 or 5 meth lab busts per day, it doesn't even make the news anymore. How sad is that??

Take a look at this page and tell us again how bogus or exaggerated these stories and billboards are: http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/meths-devastating-effects-before-and-after/

Peace,

Ghost