CIA TORTURE: It Was Worse Than Anyone Knew

[grahamhgreen]

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

(Reuters) - The Central Intelligence Agency misled the U.S. government and public for years about aspects of its brutal interrogation program, concealing details about harsh treatment of detainees and other issues, according to a report in the Washington Post.

U.S. officials who have seen a Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA interrogation program described damning new information about a network of secret detention facilities, also called "black sites", the Washington Post said.

___________

At the "black sites", prisoners were sometimes subjected to harsh interrogation techniques even when analysts were sure they had no more information to give, said the report, which the Post said was based on interviews with current and former U.S. officials.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-cia-misled-public-on-interrogation-program-newspaper-reports-2014-01#ixzz2xfNNNxiA

Torture should always be prosecuted. Not prosecuting makes one complicit in the torture, right?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. But...but...we must look ahead.

[1000words]

2. Past tense?

I seriously doubt this shit has stopped.

[RobertEarl]

6. Maybe not stopped

Last edited Wed Apr 2, 2014, 01:00 AM - Edit history (1)

But the over reach of the bush years has ended.

That this 'news' is somehow news today is what is ridiculous. DU had exposed the torture back right after it happened. The damn news people need to be reading DU, they'd learn a lot.

Of course the news is making a stink up, finally, because there may just be a way to pin this on Obama. But the fact of the matter is their bush boy is the criminal, so we welcome the news finally making the front page, again.

When bush et al are in jail, we can put it behind us and then look forward. Obama is already, it's just some of us still remember and can't forget how awful our history under bush really was. There is one way Obama can lead us. Just one.

[1000words]

10. Isn't any torture an "overreach?"

If it hasn't stopped, someone is presently responsible.

[RobertEarl]

11. Yes it is

So are drones, etc. The surge in Afghanistan was over reach. There's a lot of it about. Careers in the cia were made on over reach. We have a long way to go and the first step has been taken: Obama has wound it down, afaict.

The next step is taking the bush gang to court. If it were any of us peons we'd be lifers, already. We have to show the law is spread equally. There is no other way. But I'm open to hearing another. Maybe Obama can come up with another, besides pretending it never happened?

[delrem]

22. RobertEarl: "Obama has wound it down"

He wound drone kills up. He wound the surge in Afghanistan up. The US is out of Iraq because Maliki refused to renegotiate the deal for total withdrawal signed under "W".

RobertEarl: "The next step is taking the bush gang to court."

Right....
But Pres. Obama explicitly stated that "... I have a belief that we need to look forward, as opposed to looking backwards"

There has been no indication whatsoever that Pres. Obama is any different than a neocon w.r.t. US foreign policy.

[grahamhgreen]

32. In my view, prosecuting torture is looking forward. We're all looking forward to it!

[grahamhgreen]

20. Excuse me, but rendition is still happening and rendition = torture.

[RobertEarl]

21. Gitmo is still open

Obama has said he wants it closed. Why it hasn't closed is beyond me, but it isn't.

Empire is still 'working hard' at being Empire, so there will be errors made until it retires. The question is: are we on track to retire, or work until we die?

If it were up to me, we'd sell all our gold and live in communes! Back to the 60's!!

[delrem]

23. Gitmo is still open because neocons still rule.

eta
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/03/cheney-appointee-victoria-nulands-neocon-ukrainian-adventures

[ProSense]

31. This is nonsense.

Carry on.

[delrem]

33. Google it. nt

[ProSense]

34. I don't have to. n/t

[delrem]

37. Well, if you wish to remain ignorant...

[ProSense]

41. Interestingly,

I'm not the "ignorant" one.

LOL!

[delrem]

42. Just... (expletives deleted) GOOGLE IT! shee. nt

[ProSense]

46. Upset that you're misinformed? n/t

[delrem]

47. oh my lord. So now I've met ProSense.

[ProSense]

49. I wish you hadn't

for my sake.

[delrem]

50. Well then, can we agree to fuckin well avoid each other in future, ProSense?

Nevermind: I'll just try to avoid you, and that'll be fine.

[Raksha]

59. You can always put him on ignore,

which I'm probably going to do in the very near future.

[delrem]

62. Nah. I have only one person on ignore,

and that's a person totally worth ignoring.

eta: but no shit, I won't be responding to anything ProSense posts in the near future!

[lark]

91. Just ignore her

She will never admit that Obama is anything less than perfection incarnate, drones - yep she's fine with that. NSA spying on evey American - that never happens in her dream world, holding Bush accountable - nope, look forward, Snowden is a total criminal and traitor to our country and folks have died because he told the truth. think that pretty much summarizes her stances and they never waver, never change.

There is none so blind as (s)he who won't see.

[bvar22]

92. Nailed It.

[grahamhgreen]

35. First, you will agree that rendition = kidnapping, right?

PARLIAMENT of CANADA

PRB 07-48E

Extraordinary Rendition: International Law and the Prohibition of Torture

Laura Barnett
Law and Government Division

Revised 17 July 2008

Disclaimer
Contents

Extraordinary Rendition Defined

Since 11 September 2001, controversy has arisen in the Western world concerning the transfer of detainees from one state to another and the conditions of such transfers. Accusations abound with respect to the harsh interrogation methods used against detainees in some countries, as well as the clandestine nature of some holding centres. As a result, the term “extraordinary rendition” has become a commonly recognized word in the modern lexicon – films have been made, and ongoing debates have taken place in the media, and among politicians and academics. This paper will examine the issue of extraordinary rendition, and attempt to define the term and outline international law prohibitions against it. It will also examine American and Canadian law, highlighting key cases in the United States, Canada and Europe that exemplify how various nations are dealing with the phenomenon in the context of their domestic and international law obligations.

Extraordinary Rendition Defined

States dealing with individuals suspected of terrorist or other criminal activities and that wish to transfer the suspect from one state to another for arrest, detention, or interrogation generally have two broad possibilities available to them: extradition and rendition. Extradition is the technique more commonly used, in which a state surrenders a person within its jurisdiction to another state through a formal legal process outlined in legislation and an extradition treaty.

However, transfers of suspects from one state to another may sometimes take place “extrajudicially” – outside the law. This process is known as “rendition” and generally implies that transferred suspects have no access to the judicial system of the sending state to challenge their transfer. Since 11 September 2001, particular controversy has arisen over allegations of renditions carried out in order that harsh interrogation techniques (torture) prohibited under the sending country’s laws may be applied to the suspect in another country where the laws are less strict.(1) Such transfers are known as “extraordinary renditions.”(2)

International Law Prohibitions Against Torture and Extraordinary Rendition

A. Jus Cogens and the Non-Derogable Nature of the Prohibition of Torture

A number of international conventions outline the explicit prohibition of torture, cruel inhuman and degrading treatment, and rendition to torture. Numerous United Nations monitoring bodies have also declared the practice of extraordinary rendition to be a violation of the international law prohibition against torture.(3)

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/researchpublications/prb0748-e.htm

Change your mind yet, or are you still on the side of torture?

[delrem]

38. Just a guess but I think you're in for a word salad of parsing

and semantic dressing worthy of Liz Cheney.

But I'm only guessing....

[grahamhgreen]

44. LOL. Pro is coming along, slowly:-)

[ProSense]

48. LOL! The information you posted has nothing to do with my point.

A definition doesn't debunk the fact that you're wrong that the policy is continuing.

[grahamhgreen]

55. Oh, you don't realize that Obama continued the policy! Here:

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)

President Obama left intact an equally controversial counter-terrorism tool.

Under executive orders issued by Obama recently, the CIA still has authority to carry out what are known as renditions, secret abductions and transfers of prisoners to countries that cooperate with the United States.

Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism -- aside from Predator missile strikes -- for taking suspected terrorists off the street.

The rendition program became a source of embarrassment for the CIA, and a target of international scorn, as details emerged in recent years of botched captures, mistaken identities and allegations that prisoners were turned over to countries where they were tortured.

The European Parliament condemned renditions as "an illegal instrument used by the United States." Prisoners swept up in the program have sued the CIA as well as a Boeing Co. subsidiary accused of working with the agency on dozens of rendition flights.

But the Obama administration appears to have determined that the rendition program was one component of the Bush administration's war on terrorism that it could not afford to discard.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/nation/na-rendition1

Hopefully, now you can help us lobby him to stop this process and prosecute torture! Thank you

[ProSense]

56. LOL! I understand

"Oh, you don't realize that Obama continued the policy! Here:"

...why you provided no link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021273667

[grahamhgreen]

61. Oops, here's the link. Are you for torture or against it?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/nation/na-rendition1

[rhett o rick]

85. Dont you know the rules? You cant ask them if they are for or against any issue. nm

[grahamhgreen]

88. That's what makes me sure it's a think tank:-)

[brett_jv]

74. The link has been provided ... I'm hoping you have an actual retort beyond that ...

Curious as to what it is?

Do you REALLY think that torture has stopped under Obama's administration? Cause I'm a fairly big fan of PBO, but not even I am remotely sure that it has stopped. Curious as to how you're so sure?

[ProSense]

79. Well,

The link has been provided ... I'm hoping you have an actual retort beyond that...Curious as to what it is?

Do you REALLY think that torture has stopped under Obama's administration? Cause I'm a fairly big fan of PBO, but not even I am remotely sure that it has stopped. Curious as to how you're so sure?

...thanks for sharing that you're a " fairly big fan of PBO" and that your gut feeling is that torture hasn't stopped "under Obama's administration."

What exactly does that mean? This debate has been ongoing, and it's not the first time information that counters these bogus claims are dismissed. You want a "report" beyond the ACLU's? Want me to point to MSM articles like those trying to make the bogus claims?

The fact is that the President does not condone torture and took steps to end it. What hasn't happened is holding the Bush administration accountable.

Here is the relevant section from the most recent UN report.

<...>

Positive aspects
3. The Committee notes with appreciation the many efforts undertaken, and the progress made in protecting civil and political rights by the State party. The Committee welcomes, in particular, the following legislative and institutional steps taken by the State party:
(a) The full implementation of article 6(5) of the Covenant in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s judgment in Roper v. Simmons, 543 U.S. 551 (2005), despite the State party’s reservation to the contrary;
(b) The recognition by the Supreme Court in Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723 (2008), of the extraterritorial application of constitutional habeas corpus rights to aliens detained at Guantánamo Bay;
(c) The Presidential Executive Orders 13491 (“Ensuring Lawful Interrogations”), 13492 (“Review and Disposition of Individuals Detained at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base and Closure of Detention Facilities”) and 13493 (“Review of Detention Policy Options”), issued on 22 January 2009;
(d) The support for the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples announced by President Obama on 16 December 2010;
(e) The Presidential Executive Order 13567 establishing periodic review for detainees at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility who have not been charged, convicted, or designated for transfer, issued on 7 March 2011.

<...>

Accountability for past human rights violations
5. The Committee is concerned at the limited number of investigations, prosecutions and convictions of members of the Armed Forces and other agents of the U.S. Government, including private contractors, for unlawful killings in its international operations and the use of torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees in U.S. custody, including outside its territory, as part of the so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques” program. While welcoming the Presidential Executive Order 13491 of 22 January 2009 terminating the programme of secret detention and interrogation operated by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the Committee notes with concern that all reported investigations into enforced disappearances, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment that had been committed in the context of the CIA secret rendition, interrogation and detention programmes were closed in 2012 leading only to a meagre number of criminal charges brought against low-level operatives. The Committee is concerned that many details of the CIA programme remain secret thereby creating barriers to accountability and redress for victims (arts. 2, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 14).

- more -

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/Download.aspx?symbolno=CCPR/C/USA/CO/4&Lang=En

Let's see if the Senate report leads to any progress.

Report: CIA deceived on torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024763527

[grahamhgreen]

86. It's time for you to say, "I'm against torture", then we can work as a team to eradicate it:-)

[laundry_queen]

72. OMFG the irony!

I'm totally dying here...

[JDPriestly]

24. Obama is complicit in that his Justice Department has not punished anyone for torturing

prisoners -- a violation of international law which applies to the US.

[progressoid]

29. And they won't punish anyone for it.

It goes too far up the chain of command.

[RobertEarl]

63. That is the ugly truth

the current Senate committee tho may be working toward that goal. Surely having the facts laid out and in the open, and with new congress next year, I think some heads will roll.

I am an optimist re: Justice.

[JDPriestly]

65. It may be too late.

[GoneFishin]

3. Confirms what I already knew. That this was not about terrorism.

"...subjected to harsh interrogation techniques even when analysts were sure they had no more information..."

This makes me think more and more that some of the motivation behind this is personal, and that they may derive some kind of sick pleasure from it.

[delrem]

25. The purpose is to impose a state of terror.

What can be be more terrifying?

[Raksha]

57. Which is the very definition of "terrorism." n/t

[ljm2002]

75. re: the motivation being personal...

...and the torturers deriving some kind of sick pleasure from it: you are so right, and that is but one of many reasons why torture must never be tolerated as a matter of policy. Because if the state is to inflict torture, it must use people to perform the actions; and the people who are willing to do that, are not people you want to be encouraging in their proclivities. These people will be among us, and they enjoy committing acts of torture. Why would anyone think that is a good idea?

Of course, there are many other reasons too. One, it is possible to have arrested the wrong person. Similarly to the death penalty -- what a horror to consider being tortured and/or killed when one is innocent? Two, it has been shown that torture is not the most effective way to gather information from an enemy, and in fact, torture will motivate the person being tortured to say anything at all in order to stop being tortured. Three, it is immoral and wrong and bad, which should be reason enough IMO.

[G_j]

4. that is correct nt

[ProSense]

5. Report: CIA deceived on torture

Report: CIA deceived on torture

By Steve Benen

The public has waited quite a while for the 6,300-page report from the Senate Intelligence Committee on U.S. torture policies during the Bush/Cheney era. The comprehensive investigation, completed over several years, is complete, but it remains classified...the Washington Post published a report overnight on the report’s findings, based on descriptions from current and former U.S. officials who’ve seen it, and it will apparently be a brutal indictment of what the Bush/Cheney administration did in our name.

A report by the Senate Intelligence Committee concludes that the CIA misled the government and the public about aspects of its brutal interrogation program for years – concealing details about the severity of its methods, overstating the significance of plots and prisoners, and taking credit for critical pieces of intelligence that detainees had in fact surrendered before they were subjected to harsh techniques.

The report, built around detailed chronologies of dozens of CIA detainees, documents a long-standing pattern of unsubstantiated claims as agency officials sought permission to use – and later tried to defend – excruciating interrogation methods that yielded little, if any, significant intelligence, according to U.S. officials who have reviewed the document.

Reading the Post’s report, it becomes clear that we’re talking about two main areas of profound wrongdoing. The first, of course, is the torture and abusive tactics themselves, which were illegal and violate every sensible norm on how detainees should be treated. The article even referenced instances in which prisoners were abused after analysts were convinced they had no additional information to share...The second is the allegation that the Central Intelligence Agency deliberately deceived everyone about its own policies – which didn’t even produce the intended results.

<...>

It gets worse:

Classified files reviewed by committee investigators reveal internal divisions over the interrogation program, officials said, including one case in which CIA employees left the agency’s secret prison in Thailand after becoming disturbed by the brutal measures being employed there. The report also cites cases in which officials at CIA headquarters demanded the continued use of harsh interrogation techniques even after analysts were convinced that prisoners had no more information to give.

The report describes previously undisclosed cases of abuse, including the alleged repeated dunking of a terrorism suspect in tanks of ice water at a detention site in Afghanistan — a method that bore similarities to waterboarding but never appeared on any Justice Department-approved list of techniques.

Kevin Drum’s response to the article rings true: “So the torture was even worse than we thought; it produced very little in the way of actionable intelligence; and the CIA lied about this in order to preserve their ability to torture prisoners. Anybody who isn’t sickened by this needs to take very long, very deep look into their souls.”

The report is clearly a document that will reignite debate, but whether it will be subjected to public scrutiny remains unclear. The Intelligence Committee will reportedly vote later this week on sending an executive summary – roughly 400 pages long – to President Obama for declassification.

- more -

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/report-cia-deceived-torture

[Bandit]

9. Anybody who isn’t sickened by this needs to take very long, very deep look into their souls.”

Then there was Senator Inhofe who said he was "Outraged at the Outrage" over the USA torturing people. I don't believe he or most Republicans have a soul. They certainly are not remorseful about our torture policies, and in fact still brag about them.

[Demo_Chris]

7. Let's just give them a pass. nt

[woo me with science]

8. "Torture should always be prosecuted. Not prosecuting makes one complicit in the torture, right?"

Absolutely correct. Thank you.

[Raksha]

60. Yes it does. Therefore Obama is complicit in torture.

His administration has not only refrained from prosecuting, it has refused to prosecute.

So there...I SAID IT!

[TheKentuckian]

12. Looking forward is an ethical travesty, a sham, and a mockery. It's a Travisshamockery!

[MsLeopard]

16. DUzy!

[Corruption Inc]

13. Nah, let's just preach to other countries about morals while we have torture camps

and war criminals parading around on book tours.

[spanone]

14. cheney knew.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Cheney probably had a closed-circuit TV feed

from the torture sites to his "undisclosed location." Or maybe one of the "undisclosed locations" was at a torture site so he could witness it in person.

[Octafish]

39. Veep Peep Show

The Secret Torture Memo Cheney Didn't Want You To See

—Hamed Aleaziz
Mother Jones on Thu. April 5, 2012 12:20 PM PDT

In 2006, Philip Zelikow, an adviser to then-Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, wrote a secret memo warning his colleagues that many of the Bush administration's enhanced interrogation techniques were likely illegal. Zelikow didn't speak publicly about the memo—the smoking gun that the Bush administration was warned by its own staff about legal problems with its interrogation program—until 2009, when he revealed its existence in a blog post for Foreign Policy. But when Zelikow testified to Congress about his warning, his classified memo was withheld, and two unclassified documents were released in its stead. Zelikow told Mother Jones in 2009 that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had attempted to destroy any evidence of the classified memo, but that some copies might survive in the State Department's archives.

It appears that Zelikow was right about the archives: the secret memo, which he called a "direct assault on [the Bush Justice Department's] interpretation of American law," was finally released by the State Department on Tuesday, three years after the National Security Archive and WIRED reporter Spencer Ackerman (then at the Washington Independent) first requested it under the Freedom of Information Act. You can read it here:

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/04/secret-torture-memo-cheney-hid

[2banon]

66. Thanks Octafish.., so Cheney's fire didn't burn all the evidence after all. n/t

.

[Octafish]

80. Who needs fire when you control the mass media?

Phil "9/11 Fixer" Zelikow's memo went down the Memory Hole and is seldom, if ever, mentioned on-air again.

PS: You are most welcome, 2banon! Thank you for grokking what democracy faces.

[2banon]

83. You're so right about the media, wonder why Cheney even bother setting the fire

when he had the media to cover his ass along with Congress Critters..

You and I know that Elections do not a democracy make.. especially if they're rigged.

[underpants]

43. Yep

no doubt

[UTUSN]

51. "CHEENEE knew." Shrub, Rums, all knew. CIA didn't "deceive" anybody, was carrying out policy

And just about all of us here knew and objected.

[Lint Head]

15. It's sickening to me to know that my country now tortures like it's the norm.

Cheney and Bush are directly responsible for this and should be tried and put to death for committing crimes against this nation and humanity.

[Scuba]

17. Torture is a stain on the American fabric that can only be cleansed by prosecuting the torturers.

[Solly Mack]

18. K&R

[In_The_Wind]

26. Kicked and recommended

[Soylent Brice]

27. k&r

[blackspade]

28. Is there a statute of limitations on torture?

If not, I'm willing to be patient.
I would like nothing more than an 80 year old Dick Cheney at the dock, watching his whole lifetime of 'achievements' destroyed in the eyes of the public. Shrub too, and the rest of the war criminals.

[Vattel]

30. The war crimes act has no statute of limitations.

see http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/late-try-bush-cheney-obama-war-crimes.html

[blackspade]

36. Very good.

Thanks for the link.

[grahamhgreen]

68. Thanks for that link! Very informational:)

[2banon]

67. The longer that fuck is allowed to roam free is the less repercussions he faces.

Patience in this case, is not a virtue or a win.

[1000words]

69. Henry Kissinger says, "hello."

Although it sounded like the dog farted, it is what he said.

[2banon]

71. Rofl! Case in Point! n/t

[blackspade]

78. True.

But having the guy's life explode before he could spin it would be delicious.

[2banon]

84. In our dreams..

look at John Negroponte, Henry Kissinger. Hell, Pinochet didn't have to face justice until he was on his death bed. Something seriously lacking there.

[hootinholler]

40. We have a duty to prosecute torture

By treaty IIRC. Per the constitution a ratified treaty is law.

[amandabeech]

45. Making a good start on health care for all is really an achievement, and the President

deserves all the accolades posted here on that subject.

However, the failure to prosecute torturers, the continuing over-use of drones and the Afghan surge are serious problems that the President must own up to and, where possible, correct.

[1000words]

52. Insurance

Health insurance.

[Dawson Leery]

53. Never forget that Condesleeza gave the go ahead for this human rights violation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5208701/Condoleezza-Rice-approved-torture-techniques.html

https://www.aclu.org/blog/human-rights-national-security/watch-condoleezza-rice-defends-torture-program-and-confirms

[malaise]

54. THIS - Torture should always be prosecuted.

Not prosecuting makes one complicit in the torture, right?

------------------------

[Raksha]

58. K & R

[blkmusclmachine]

64. MUST. LOOK. FORWARD.

[grahamhgreen]

70. Look forward... to prosecutions for war crimes!

[polynomial]

73. The CIA should be renamed

The Central Intelligence Agency should be renamed the Cheney Maniacs agency. After reading about Cheney telling his story about waterboarding was not torture reminded me how sick our society is. Plus if he had to do it all over again Cheney said he would water board/ torture without hesitation.

Moving into the next millennium America has to address this lunacy mental perversion. Along with a serious flaw in the common sense government were a solution to wage war is normal. Man’s evolution is stymied by critical thinking such as Cheney’s absurd reasoning of the past century. That torture culture is exactly what encouraged our early settlers to flea centuries of tyranny torture, kidnaping, murder, and trading people for private obsessions, developing a crazy culture.

The very intrinsic concept of torture invites doubt, uncertainty, and scales to more distrust with vengeance, and retribution retaliations in plans that project into the future. There is no future with mental minds like that in governance. Bush and Cheney already have proven it.

A good society needs to place Bush and Cheney before the court openly honestly then we would likely see that the CIA is the reflection of them and not what We the People are. That needs to be placed in front of the world, We the people need to show leader ship and condemn Bush and Cheney before the world.

[Enthusiast]

76. Cheney and the rest could have gotten better intelligence without torture.

But they like torture. They enjoy it. Like their brethren, the WWII Nazis, they enjoy suffering in others.

We ceased being a "good society" the day we allowed the supreme court to award G W Bush a presidential election he did not win.

[grahamhgreen]

89. Not only that, real intel just might lead back to them.

[Enthusiast]

90. Yes. They were looking for specific "intelligence".

[cantbeserious]

77. But, But - We Should Never Look Back

eom

[TNNurse]

81. Your title is wrong

Plenty of people knew.

[bobduca]

82. K&R for pissing off all the right douchebags

[LuvNewcastle]

87. Excellent post! Thanks.