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[lostincalifornia]

This message was self-deleted by its author (lostincalifornia) on Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:49 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[TwilightGardener]

1. He was always a propaganda machine for Russia. When he wasn't supplying

them with American intelligence secrets, that is--then he was a traitor and spy, of course.

[MohRokTah]

2. That's precisely the choice he made.

It's what he wanted.

[randome]

3. He's getting a lot more attention now than he was in the States.

I would not want to be a witness to when he realizes he's thrown away his life.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. Has he? I'll bet he can make far more money as a celebrity than he could have honestly. N.T.

[Thinkingabout]

5. He is a professional patsy, GG used him and now Putin is using him.

Putin called him spy and still some will expect him to get clemency. Let Russia give him a passport as a government worker.

[lostincalifornia]

12. I think you assessment is correct about him being a patsy. Not sure about a willing one or a

"professional" one, but definitely if he did have idealistic goals when he set out, they will be overshadowed by those using him for other purposes

[Thinkingabout]

39. I understand he went to hacker school in India so he just may be set for life.

GG got big bucks and probably never intended to share with Snowden so to set him up to travel to Russia was a good move for GG.

[lostincalifornia]

47. I am skeptical about that. There is no such thing as a "hacker school". Hackers are as independent

and free lance as they come

[Thinkingabout]

48. Try doing a Yahoo search, they are listed. You may be skeptical but maybe you can see for yourself

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Putin said essentially the same thing that Obama and the NSA said.

[99Forever]

7. And that means the NSA isn't spying on American citizens...

... without warrants or probable cause, in direct violation of The Constitution, right?

Same ol, same ol.

[lostincalifornia]

15. absolutely, though I suspect he didn't fully consider the extent he would be used for other purposes

I say that because if he did, he would have found another country other than Russia to go to first, then have the information released after he was assured that he could stay there.

Instead, the information got released first, and that closed off where he could seek asylum, and his choices became limited

[leftynyc]

33. I actually blame Glenn Greenwald for that

I firmly believe he used Snowden for his own ends and to this day doesn't give a shit what happened to Snowden. I suspect Greenwald felt Snowden would be happy to be a "martyr".

[Marr]

20. You're outraged about the NSA?

If I were to look for posts from you on the topic, would I find outrage about NSA spying, or Snowden?

I don't know about you particularly, but there's a very strong trend here amongst those who label Snowden a spy/patsy for Russia-- they tend to either avoid all discussion of NSA domestic spying, or openly excuse it.

[Skittles]

23. and they do it with accusations of "hero worship"

HOO BOY

[Marr]

28. Not to mention, "Putin apologist".

Half the time, I think they're doing some kind of Stephen Colbert-style satire.

[leftynyc]

32. Feel free to look all you want

All you'll see is that I consider Snowden to be a criminal but the information he stole was useful for us in finding out what the NSA was up to which was also criminal. I've never waivered from that position.

[Marr]

17. +1, so sick of the diversions on this topic. /nt

[riqster]

8. "Now"?

'Twas ever thus.

[FSogol]

14. +1

[liberal N proud]

10. Couldn't see that coming

[Faux pas]

11. He's an ASS and

a traitor. That's mho and no one will change that opinion.

[stevenleser]

13. At best, Snowden has always been sophomoric and naive, at worst, a traitor.

Today's evidence is leaning more toward the worst than the best.

[Vashta Nerada]

16. So, about that NSA domestic spying/surveillance...

anything to say about that?

[Skittles]

19. naw, Obama is still perfect

[Vashta Nerada]

27. If this happened under Bush, Snowden would've been hailed as a hero.

Under Obama, he's a traitor.

Or something.

[Skittles]

29. well of course

it's ODS and the hypocrisy is staggering

[Thinkingabout]

42. Never, it was a crime before Obama was born, it has been a crime for a long time.

Snowden is a zero who needs to be thrown to the curb.

[1000words]

21. It's gotten pathetic, no?

This is all they have, Vashta.

[Vashta Nerada]

24. It has.

I posted in another thread very similar to this one with this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4834594

And I was met with this response: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4834614

Apparently they don't want to discuss the actual issue.

[Marr]

31. That's about what I'd expect. Just juvenile mockery and deflections.

They don't want to talk about NSA domestic spying-- they just want to divert and pollute that discussion as much as possible.

[Marr]

22. +1, it's really become pathetic.

The apoplectic fits over Taibbi are sad as well. They're on auto-pilot, and don't seem to realize how stupid they look.

[Vashta Nerada]

26. It really is.

Please see my response in post 24 about how they react to it.

[randome]

30. Lots to say about the NSA domestic spying.

Too bad Snowden didn't reveal any.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[stevenleser]

34. For which he is an apologist in another country that happens to be at odds with us right now?

Sorry, that is a big part of the story now.

It puts his motives and even his info/"evidence" completely in question now.

[Vashta Nerada]

36. It still doesn't hide the fact that the US is spying on its own citizens.

I couldn't give two shits about Snowden. I care that I'm probably being spied on for no reason.

[stevenleser]

40. It puts everything Snowden has done and why he has done it in doubt. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

41. So do you doubt the claim that the NSA is spying on us?

[stevenleser]

43. "Claims" require verifiable facts from reliable people. Snowden now fails on the last part. nt

[treestar]

44. It is not

There was a warrant. It was not "spying on citizens." You are believing your own tortured spin.

[theboss]

18. We have to be really careful about making people with good information into heroes

Snowden has probably done some good with his revelations, but everything about him just oozes sleaze.

[riqster]

25. ^^^This^^^

"We have to be really careful about making people with good information into heroes."

S'truth.

[BenzoDia]

35. Yep. Dudes a tool being used by others now.

[bowens43]

37. Wow. The comments hereamaze me...its almost like being at freakrepublic.....

[Polito Vega]

38. Correction, it looks like to YOU

and NSA apologists.

[randome]

45. Where are his Wikileaks advisers now?

Where is Laura Poitras? I thought she was his 'right-hand man', so to speak.

Is there anyone who is standing by Snowden's side?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[applegrove]

46. He's got no choice but to be Putin's patsy.

[unreadierLizard]

49. Still doesn't nullify the information he leaked.

Snowden could be a neo-Nazi saying Heil Hitler while wearing a swastika armband and his information would still be important and damning at the same time.