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Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 04:55 PM Apr 2014

Today Snowden said he risked his life to expose NSA surveillance practices

Edward Snowden
theguardian.com, Friday 18 April 2014

<...>
I was surprised that people who witnessed me risk my life to expose the surveillance practices of my own country could not believe that I might also criticize the surveillance policies of Russia, a country to which I have sworn no allegiance, without ulterior motive. I regret that my question could be misinterpreted, and that it enabled many to ignore the substance of the question – and Putin's evasive response – in order to speculate, wildly and incorrectly, about my motives for asking it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden


How exactly is copying millions of documents to a portable thumb drive risking one's life?
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Today Snowden said he risked his life to expose NSA surveillance practices (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 OP
Because he's be a dead man walking elias49 Apr 2014 #1
You mean the NSA would have killed him in Hawaii? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #2
The evil BFEE took out JFK, dontchaknow? zappaman Apr 2014 #3
Well, we do have evidence of CIA agents talking about 'taking him out'. Did you miss sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #6
Yup. Or maybe interrogate him elias49 Apr 2014 #8
They hate him so much Generic Other Apr 2014 #12
Absolutely. Frankly I would not want to fall into the hands of our 'intelligence' community even sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #13
could you share the evidence of CIA officers talking of "taking him out."? arely staircase Apr 2014 #30
"America's Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead" sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #36
ah. anonymous sources. bu t it could be true. I will concede that much. nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #37
Who's we, and what's the evidence. MineralMan Apr 2014 #32
Well, obviously the 'we' didn't include people who haven't been following the news. Sometimes I do sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #41
Unnamed sources = Bullshit. MineralMan Apr 2014 #43
Don't know much about extremely credible progressive sources, I see. Longtime creds sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #44
Putin has him on a leash HipChick Apr 2014 #4
Like those Abu Ghraib leashes? nt elias49 Apr 2014 #5
He gave up his life for it... a high-paying job and an attractive girlfriend davidn3600 Apr 2014 #7
He has a flair for the dramatic Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #9
Dude's a puppet. That wasn't "criticizing the surveillance policies of Russia" BenzoDia Apr 2014 #10
Really? You have to ask? Scuba Apr 2014 #11
He's got Russia and the USA bassackwards.. Anything to pimp for putin.. Cha Apr 2014 #14
then why doesn't he risk being tried in the United States treestar Apr 2014 #15
You must be kidding marions ghost Apr 2014 #16
No. The exaggeration on this subject is silly. treestar Apr 2014 #18
The US justice system is antiquated, dysfunctional marions ghost Apr 2014 #20
No I don't live in such a bleak world treestar Apr 2014 #25
"Best in the world" marions ghost Apr 2014 #39
What system would you prefer? treestar Apr 2014 #40
Oh please marions ghost Apr 2014 #42
Because Barack Obama is a totalitarian megalomaniac. baldguy Apr 2014 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #19
Hey Betty Rabbit Autumn Apr 2014 #21
Betty's gone Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #45
MIRT knows her very well Autumn Apr 2014 #47
I'm not sure "sworn" means what he thinks it does. gulliver Apr 2014 #22
Your question is... 99Forever Apr 2014 #23
Really? He's nearly as melodramatic as Greenwald! eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #24
I'm certain you'll have an explanation Progressive dog Apr 2014 #26
History, much? 99Forever Apr 2014 #27
Well, history could mean a lot of things, Progressive dog Apr 2014 #29
Lots of people "attribute" lots of things that are pure bs. 99Forever Apr 2014 #33
So they do, Progressive dog Apr 2014 #35
I am guessing it is more dangerous than posting on DU (nt) The Straight Story Apr 2014 #28
Well, he risked his freedom, anyhow. MineralMan Apr 2014 #31
I heard he once wiped his nose on his shirt sleeve. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #34
This obsession is unwholesome cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #38
I've never been much of a wholesome person... Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #46
What a drama queen. WatermelonRat Apr 2014 #48

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
6. Well, we do have evidence of CIA agents talking about 'taking him out'. Did you miss
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:04 PM
Apr 2014

that btw? And as we all know, the CIA would NEVER, EVER do something so 'wrrrrronnnnnggg'. Especially when they threaten to do so.



He risked his life, certainly his normal life, to inform the people here of what their government has been up to, and for that he will eventually be recognized, along with others, like Ellsberg, for what he did.

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
8. Yup. Or maybe interrogate him
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:10 PM
Apr 2014

in an enhanced way. They've been known to do that kind of thing...

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
13. Absolutely. Frankly I would not want to fall into the hands of our 'intelligence' community even
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 11:52 PM
Apr 2014

as a totally innocent person. We are not known for our respect for Human Rights or respect for the law anymore. I think Snowden is going to be one of the first of many Whistle Blowers to come who will be seeking political asylum eslewhere.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
30. could you share the evidence of CIA officers talking of "taking him out."?
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:46 PM
Apr 2014

or am I going to have to file that with the boxes bullshit and the 50 million American households that watch RT.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
36. "America's Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead"
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 04:47 PM
Apr 2014
America's Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead

Edward Snowden has made some dangerous enemies. As the American intelligence community struggles to contain the public damage done by the former National Security Agency contractor’s revelations of mass domestic spying, intelligence operators have continued to seethe in very personal terms against the 30-year-old whistle-blower.
“In a world where I would not be restricted from killing an American, I personally would go and kill him myself,” a current NSA analyst told BuzzFeed. “A lot of people share this sentiment.”

“I would love to put a bullet in his head,” one Pentagon official, a former special forces officer, said bluntly. “I do not take pleasure in taking another human beings life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single-handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”

That violent hostility lies just beneath the surface of the domestic debate over NSA spying is still ongoing. Some members of Congress have hailed Snowden as a whistle-blower, the New York Times has called for clemency, and pundits regularly defend his actions on Sunday talk shows. In intelligence community circles, Snowden is considered a nothing short of a traitor in wartime.


US Spies Talk About Killing Snowden

Nevertheless, the hypothetical assassination of the NSA-trained hacker is quite detailed:

“I think if we had the chance, we would end it very quickly,” [an Army intelligence officer] said. “Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow, coming back from buying his groceries. Going back to his flat and he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it’s a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower.”


US Intel Officials keep Talking about Killing Snowden, then say trust us with your data

Now, Benny Johnson, over at Buzzfeed, has been able to get a bunch of intelligence community and military officials to comment anonymously, but on the record, about how much they want to kill Snowden, often including full descriptions of how they'd do it -- and the fact that they don't see any reason to support things like basic due process. The quotes are chilling.

“In a world where I would not be restricted from killing an American, I personally would go and kill him myself,” a current NSA analyst told BuzzFeed. “A lot of people share this sentiment.”

“I would love to put a bullet in his head,” one Pentagon official, a former special forces officer, said bluntly. “I do not take pleasure in taking another human beings life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”


They don't seem to have much understanding of the rule of law, which of course explains why they were so willing to break the law by spying on the American people. These are dangerous people, now more obvious than ever, and as the JC article points, 'we should trust THEM with our 'data'?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
41. Well, obviously the 'we' didn't include people who haven't been following the news. Sometimes I do
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:08 PM
Apr 2014

give too much credit to ALL Duers as people who are informed. Clearly in this case, I was wrong.

America's Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead

Edward Snowden has made some dangerous enemies. As the American intelligence community struggles to contain the public damage done by the former National Security Agency contractor’s revelations of mass domestic spying, intelligence operators have continued to seethe in very personal terms against the 30-year-old whistle-blower.
“In a world where I would not be restricted from killing an American, I personally would go and kill him myself,” a current NSA analyst told BuzzFeed. “A lot of people share this sentiment.”

“I would love to put a bullet in his head,” one Pentagon official, a former special forces officer, said bluntly. “I do not take pleasure in taking another human beings life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single-handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”

That violent hostility lies just beneath the surface of the domestic debate over NSA spying is still ongoing. Some members of Congress have hailed Snowden as a whistle-blower, the New York Times has called for clemency, and pundits regularly defend his actions on Sunday talk shows. In intelligence community circles, Snowden is considered a nothing short of a traitor in wartime.


US Spies Talk About Killing Snowden

Nevertheless, the hypothetical assassination of the NSA-trained hacker is quite detailed:

“I think if we had the chance, we would end it very quickly,” [an Army intelligence officer] said. “Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow, coming back from buying his groceries. Going back to his flat and he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it’s a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower.”


US Intel Officials keep Talking about Killing Snowden, then say trust us with your data

Now, Benny Johnson, over at Buzzfeed, has been able to get a bunch of intelligence community and military officials to comment anonymously, but on the record, about how much they want to kill Snowden, often including full descriptions of how they'd do it -- and the fact that they don't see any reason to support things like basic due process. The quotes are chilling.

“In a world where I would not be restricted from killing an American, I personally would go and kill him myself,” a current NSA analyst told BuzzFeed. “A lot of people share this sentiment.”

“I would love to put a bullet in his head,” one Pentagon official, a former special forces officer, said bluntly. “I do not take pleasure in taking another human beings life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”


They don't seem to have much understanding of the rule of law, which of course explains why they were so willing to break the law by spying on the American people. These are dangerous people, now more obvious than ever, and as the JC article points, 'we should trust THEM with our 'data'?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
44. Don't know much about extremely credible progressive sources, I see. Longtime creds
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 12:01 AM
Apr 2014

which I suppose if you weren't around, you wouldn't know. Your opinion means very little to those who do know how reliable those sources are.

The CIA has threatened to kill Snowden, considering where this information came from, there is simply no doubt about that.

The CIA has not only NOT denied this, they have attempted to explain it by claiming the 'guys were just blowing off steam'.

There wouldn't be much point in them denying it, considering the credibility of the source.

Of course I understand your reaction, it is pretty shocking that we have sunk to this level regarding the rule of law in this country, no surprise the CIA would try to dismiss it as 'blowing off steam' or whatever.

Before you jump to conclusions about sources on this dem forum, it would be wise to know something about them. Apparently the CIA themselves, actually do.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
7. He gave up his life for it... a high-paying job and an attractive girlfriend
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:05 PM
Apr 2014

Most people wouldnt sacrifice that even if they found out their employer kills people.

In any case, I wouldnt put it past the CIA/NSA to find a way for Snowden to die in a "freak accident." I'm sure those agencies have done far, far worse in the past. But they probably wont try it while he's in Russia and being watched by the FSB. America doesn't want to start a world war over him...yet anyway.

BenzoDia

(1,010 posts)
10. Dude's a puppet. That wasn't "criticizing the surveillance policies of Russia"
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:21 PM
Apr 2014

And the Guardian is officially trash to me now.

Cha

(297,029 posts)
14. He's got Russia and the USA bassackwards.. Anything to pimp for putin..
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 04:32 AM
Apr 2014


Journalistic death toll in Putin's Russia

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/mar/11/journalist-safety-vladimir-putin

"risking his life".. first of all he hacked, Ran, and then leaked from the safety of the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong.. or did he Leak to China's newspapers and all over the Planet before he was a guest at the Russian Embassy?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
18. No. The exaggeration on this subject is silly.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:42 AM
Apr 2014

And you expect to have others go along with it. His life is at bigger risk there. I know some people really do hate the US - I see the Republicans are right when it comes to some people - I didn't hate it for opposing the war and the Republicans said we hated it for opposing the war. But there were some of us suffer from US derangement syndrome. And it's getting unrealistic. The idea the US justice system is worse than Russia's is delusional.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
20. The US justice system is antiquated, dysfunctional
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 11:03 AM
Apr 2014

and more and more favors only the interests of the wealthy. Surely you see that.

The delusion is that Snowden would find any justice in post Booshcheney America.

Political exile remains the only option open to him.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
25. No I don't live in such a bleak world
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 12:22 PM
Apr 2014

The justice system is basically functional. Nothing can be perfect, but with all that publicity, Eddie would get all of its protections. I consider claims he will be sent to Gitmo or "tortured" to be pure delusion and most people would.

And it is one of the best in the world, though it may have problems. It is certainly better than Russia's.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
39. "Best in the world"
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:54 PM
Apr 2014

.... "Basically functional" --how about "barely functional..." ? The courts are clogged, the system is antiquated and often rigged in favor of the wealthy, and the politically and economically connected. Everyone lies and nobody cares. You have to see it to believe it. It's pretty close to tragic.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
40. What system would you prefer?
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:04 PM
Apr 2014

And you have nothing to back up your allegations. How is the system antiquated? Name a more modern system. You're against trial by jury or what?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
42. Oh please
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:23 PM
Apr 2014

--(honest) lawyers and public defenders agree with me. Not going to plead the case to you here. Do some research.

The legal system needs a lot of reform. (Like several other antiquated systems in the US govt).

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
17. Because Barack Obama is a totalitarian megalomaniac.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:05 AM
Apr 2014

And if you believe that & agree with Snowden - I know a guy who's a Nigerian price and needs your help.

Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
23. Your question is...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 11:45 AM
Apr 2014

... perhaps either the most disingenuous or the most ridiculously naive one I have seen on this on this forum in a very long time.

Or maybe it's just flamebait?

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
26. I'm certain you'll have an explanation
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:24 PM
Apr 2014

from the Snowden fans of why he really really truly would have been killed by the evil US government agencies.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
29. Well, history could mean a lot of things,
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:42 PM
Apr 2014

none of which would explain why Eddie claims he risked his life. I attribute it to his egotistical focus on himself and to his Paulite libertarian leanings.

MineralMan

(146,281 posts)
31. Well, he risked his freedom, anyhow.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 02:56 PM
Apr 2014

His life? Probably not. But, he has already lost a measure of his freedom. He's stuck in Russia, with nowhere else to go. I imagine his Russian is improving, but he's not a Russian.

Would someone have killed him? Unlikely. The information was already compromised and would have been disseminated anyhow. As soon as he passed it along to someone else, there was no going back.

If he does come back to the US, he'll be serving some time in a federal prison, almost certainly. And he knew that there were serious potential penalties for transferring classified information to unauthorized people. That's made clear to everyone who deals with such information, they sign papers to the effect that they won't do it and understand those penalties.

I don't think he risked his life. He risked something though. Was it worth it? I don't know. That's a question only Edward Snowden can answer.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
46. I've never been much of a wholesome person...
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 02:09 AM
Apr 2014

...lost my virginity very early on in life.

Also, I smoked quite a bit of weed in high school and college....drank a lot too.

I sorta go with the flow, wholesomeness be damned...



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