I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny (It seems that his claims are all lies)

[kpete]

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny


One of our local news stations, the local CBS affiliate, is known for it's investigative journalism and has won many awards for it. So they decided to check out everyone's favorite traitor and his claims, and what they found was interesting.... It seems that all of his claims are apparently lies. He claims that his family has been using the land since the 1870s, from which his erroneous claims derive. His family actually bought the ranch in 1948, provably, and didn't get cattle until the 1950s. And they bought the water rights to their own property but no grazing rights to the Federal land. Imagine that. And kudos to channel 8, KLAS tv, for doing some good journalism. So good to see these days. I wonder if this will finally make the derps squatting in my state fantasizing about violence finally slink homeward?

Posted: Apr 21, 2014 2:25 PM PDT
Updated: Apr 21, 2014 5:56 PM PDT
By Nathan Baca, Investigative Reporter

.....................

"I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said.

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.

The Bureau of Land Management was created 1946, the same year Cliven was born.

...................


MUCH MORE:
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/21/1293671/-Breaking-news-on-Bundy-Ranch

AND HERE TOO:

An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history
Posted: Apr 21, 2014 3:36 PM PDT
Updated: Apr 21, 2014 6:47 PM PDT
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

UPDATED TO ADD:

I had written a reporter at KLAS -8newsnow
questioning why the station wasn't doing more to expose Bundy's lies and my concern about the militias. We shared several emails, this was his last one.
For his safety, I omitted his name and initials.

From: (reporter)
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:31 PM
To: Me
Subject: Re: need info

I got to work today and talked to my bosses, and I think the misinformation has reached the point where we have no choice but to respond to it. In one sense, we don't like doing this because it encourages more crapola. If the nutballs know that they can get TV time by creating false rumors on the internet, it is an invitation to trouble for my profession. That said, there are exceptions to every rule, and in this instance, we have reached a tipping point where the misinformation being spread has overwhelmed the facts.

In other words, you were right from the beginning, and we are going to jump into this with both feet over the next few days, but without trying to further enrage the heavily armed fringe groups for whom no amount of factual info will make one bit of difference.
It's a fine line.

Thanks for reaching out to me

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1293671/53216524#c117

[Orrex]

1. I simply can't believe that this noble freedom fighter would distort the truth!

Say it ain't so!

[Enthusiast]

27. Those righties never lie.

[leftyohiolib]

2. what a surprise another right-wing liar

[StarryNite]

32. They have no honor...

no integrity.

[HooptieWagon]

3. Even if his family had moved there in the 1870s...

the grazing land wasn't their property. The grazing land was property of the Territory of Nevada; when Nevada became a state, it reverted to Federal ownership. This was a couple decades before 1877.

[CanonRay]

4. Unfortunately, to your "squatting derps", facts are irrelevant.

They won't go home, they have a "cause". The militia world is salivating for an armed conflict so they can have martyrs.

[DiverDave]

25. FEMALE martyrs, remember

I'm sure the woman volunteered though

[malaise]

5. Bwaaaaaaaah hahahahhaa

This is too good

[prommie]

6. "Beneficial Use?"

He might as well be saying "manifest destiny." He is invoking the same rationale used by the pilgrims and other early settlers in the US for taking native American land.

[tclambert]

7. Beneficial use to him.

It certainly doesn't benefit the taxpayers whose grass he steals to feed his cattle. It doesn't benefit all the other ranchers who follow the rules and pay for the food their cattle eat. But he gets to feed his cows for free and thus make more profit on them, by passing his business costs onto the taxpayer. Just like a bank robber makes "beneficial use" of the money he steals. "Hey, don't worry, folks," he'll say. "It's all federally insured. So no one loses anything."

[druidity33]

48. it sure as hell

doesn't benefit the desert tortoise, which is the real reason land in that area is not available for forage. It destroys habitat for an INDICATOR species. That turtle dies off and everything else in that area dies too. There ain't that much grass in the desert and running cattle over it is a good way for it to disappear forever...

just sayin'...

[kimbutgar]

8. Off topic but about Bundy

80 grandchildren, Mormon. I wonder how many wives he has? Someone needs to scrutinize this guy more closely I bet he's got some secrets in his closet.

[2naSalit]

13. It's also the

mormon part that allows him to claim his ancestors were there all that time since they are all very closely related... if you catch my drift.

Yeah, he needs full on scrutiny on every count.

And we need to reaffirm the separation of church and state in all states.

[yellowcanine]

9. I am shocked that Clive Bundy would lie about this!

The guy is a fraud.

[dem in texas]

10. Don't let the truth get in the way

The right wing gun group are looking for a reason to strut around and play tough guy. The right to carry crowd here in Texas is just as stupid as the bunch in Nevada. They showed up at a Dallas area restaurant with their guns when 4 women met for lunch to talk about gun control. They were even hiding behind cars with their guns drawn.

Mark my words, they are going to shoot some innocent people sooner or later. And shame on the whore TV network, Fox News, they are so greedy for ratings that they actually sided with Bundy. Religion has its hand in it too. Shame on the the Baptists preachers association, who teach the word of God. They held a forum in Houston, but only invited Republicans candidates. Life in the USA is now stranger than fiction.

[2naSalit]

12. All the more reason

for fuxnooz to be banned from broadcasting for inciting violent insurrection and its execs brought to trial for such. They want a civil war no matter what.

[meadowlark5]

15. It must have been a dream come true

To finally dress up in their little outfits with all their holsters and camouflage and play military for reelz. No only playing with their friends in their backyards, it was a "real battle" for their freedoms and liberty

[DallasNE]

11. Other Aspects Are In Question Too

For instance, the amount of federal land Bundy has been grazing has actually expanded significantly since the 1998 court order ordering him to remove his cattle. Indeed, does anybody know how many federal acres Bundy is using for grazing purposes since there are no fences and no other ranchers in the area (that I have heard about).

[Iggo]

14. What?!?!? You mean to tell me the thief is also a liar?

What next!?!?!

[madmom]

16. One thing I have asked repeatedly and got no answer ....

Does he receive any federal farm subsidies? It would be interesting to know if he recognizes the federal government in this regard.

[urbanhermit]

36. Subsidies

I checked here and couldn't find anything but you can search more thoroughly.

http://farm.ewg.org/index.php?key=nosign

[HooptieWagon]

46. Yes. Federal grazing fees are FAR below market rates.

I understand the federal fees are about $1.50/head. State of Nevada fees (grazing on state-owned land) runs about $15/head. Market rate is about $25/head. So Bundy was not only being charged a ridiculously low rate, he's even refused to pay that.

[Nine]

61. I have the perfect solution.

Since Bundy claims the land belongs to Nevada and not the federal government, let him pay the $15/head Nevada grazing fees. Then Nevada can kick back 10% of that to the fed and keep the rest.

[HooptieWagon]

63. Makes sense. nt

[mac56]

17. Ha!

[riqster]

41. Tommy Flanagan!

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

18. These right wing bastards never cease to amaze me with how corrupt they are...

you never can win an argument with a hypocrite....will be good to see how those c#%$S at faux news acknowledge this news....

[Tsiyu]

19. Awesome work

Kick for the truth

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. Yeah, but the 1950s are SACRED to Republicans.

[Leith]

21. No Surprise at All

Anyone who looked at the facts of this whole thing (like those of us here) knew that Bundy and his followers were full of crap.

[nyquil_man]

22. 1877, 1954... Years are just numbers, man!

We're talkin' freedom here. Murica!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. But, but, but is was told right here

That if you own the water rights you own federal land.

To Witt I laughed.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

24. Surprise surprise

Another right wing con artist.

[d_r]

26. It is Shoshone land

If you want to talk about ancestral rights, according to this Nevada signed a treaty with the Shoshone to give them that land before Nevada was admitted as a state. The US government tried to buy it from the Shoshone in 1979 but the Shoshone refused the money. And then the federal government charged two Shoshone women for grazing on the land. And now this guy says it is his land, eff him I say.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/18/how-did-i-miss-militia-god-gave-land-settlers-not-shoshone-154472

[surrealAmerican]

28. Did his father pay grazing fees after he started using this land?

... or was he also a cheater?

[WinstonSmith4740]

34. Actually...

I'm pretty sure Clive Bundy paid grazing fees until about 1993, when he got pissed off at BLM because he didn't like the rules. So he "fired" them, and has refused to pay fees to the Feds since then. He did enter into an agreement with the State of Nevada, but only paid the fees for a couple of years.

The Moapa Valley is seriously Mormon & conservative. We're about 50 miles and 100 years from Las Vegas. The valley was settled by polygamists about 100 years ago, and while I'm sure there's probably a few still left here, they don't let it be known. In all honesty, I don't think Cliven is a polygamist, just a typical Mormon family...lots of kids and grandkids.

The teacher I drive to school with knows way more about this than I do, and this is the only topic I think we disagree on. The bottom line here is that there is an awful lot of evidence pointing to the BLM screwing up here, primarily because they really don't seem to understand how rural America works. There's a serious water grab going on here by Las Vegas, Arizona, and California, and this is part of that. They want to build a pipeline, so BLM shut down a lot of land around the area to any activity at all...boating, hiking, ATV's, etc., the effect of which is going to devastate two of the three small towns in the valley. However, my argument to her is that HOW the BLM is managing the land is separate from what Bundy is doing. He's wrong, pure and simple. He needs to pay his damn grazing fees like every other rancher in the country.

[louis-t]

29. Maybe his 'forefathers' were moochers, too.

This is the kind of journalism that should deflate his bubble and defuse the situation. But it probably won't, because freedom.

[napkinz]

30. this land is your land; this land is my land; this land is Bundy's land ...

[kpete]

43. napkinz

thank you again,

and peace, kp

[napkinz]

45. you're welcome kpete

[Wellstone ruled]

31. Yes!!!

Notice KLAS finally did a real back ground story on this Bundy Farce. And there is more to be done as to who are the real players and their motives. Clark County Politics? TeaBillies trying to fill their ranks and help the Oligarchs Adleson and the Krotch Brosthers? The truth is there some where.

[MisterP]

33. waitaminute, he wants collective family usufruct of a commons AND private, personal property?

next you’ll be telling me they believe in both collective bargaining and that there’s no society, just sovereign individuals à la Thatcher!

[alp227]

35. WELL WHERE'S OBUMMER'S COLLEGE RECORDS, BIRTH CERTIFICATE, BENGHAZI EMAILS...

with an added duhhhhhhhhhhhhr, mocking right wingers who complain that Obama "ISn'T SCRUTUNIZED ENOUGH" by media

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. So ...

From the 1st link ...

"They are literally treating western United States citizens, ranchers, rural folks like this- are the modern day Indians. We're being driven off of our lands. We're being forced into reservations known as cities," Justin Giles, an Oathkeeper from Alaska, said.

The local Paiute Indians were forced into reservations by federal troops in 1875. Two years prior, the tribe was promised the same land Cliven Bundy now grows his melons ,and until recently, grazed his cattle.

So Justin ... I take it, you will get your gun to defend the Paiute's prior claim to the land against both the encroachment of the Federal government AND Bundy?

I thought so

[ManiacJoe]

38. I am happily surprised that a news organization actually did the research.

I am not surprised at the results of the research.

[StarryNite]

39. And to think...

Richard Mack and the other "organizers" of the protest were planning to "put" women and children on the front line to use as shields for that thieving, lying sack of shit Cliven Bundy. The really sick thing is that those protesters would still do what they did even knowing they were all lied to by Bundy.

[DesertDiamond]

40. Here's a solution: He grazes his beef on our land and then sells his product at a deep discount...

I don't eat it personally, but for those who do, it's unfair that we give him the grazing for free and then he sells us his beef at jacked-up prices. Just sayin'.

[Dawson Leery]

42. This thug is thief and must be treated as such!

The Bundy's have stolen land from the public trust and possibly the Shoshone tribe.

[glinda]

44. He belongs to the "pretend" bunch...those that

have to re-enact the Wild West and pretend they are in armies and such.

[XRubicon]

47. He is a taker nt

[Cha]

49. Props to everyone exposing bundy lies!

[Curmudgeoness]

50. A friend of mine in Vegas told me about this story as well.

So why are we not hearing about it in the rest of the country?????

[blkmusclmachine]

51. ,

,

[workinclasszero]

52. He is the teabaggers own welfare queen!

Plus a liar but a reich wingnut = a liar, every. single. time!

[7wo7rees]

53. Shocked

Shocked I tell you.

[JHB]

54. Reminds me of various Republican anti-IRS hearings...

I'm mainly thinking of Clinton-era ones, where Republican congressmen would get testimony to showcase how oppressive and overbearing the IRS was to small businesses. When investigative reporters researched the star witnesses history (after the testimony and headlines were circulated in the conservative media feedback loop), they invariably turned out to be hucksters, swindlers, and/or flat-out tax cheats.

[flvegan]

55. Wait...an examination of the title to the property revealed the truth???!!!

Public records said what?

Oh my goodness gracious.

[Kablooie]

56. If information comes from the right you can count on it being a lie.

It breathtaking how nearly every single thing they say is a lie.
It's become a cultural trait.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

57. They've figured out telling the truth does not work for them...

when you run a headline on page one that is not true at worst they run an apology if forced to a week later on page 20 ...the damage has been done ..classic rupert stuff..

[Elmergantry]

58. Im not sure this clears up anything

So his family bought property in the 1950's...ok. but that doesn't mean they were not grazing on Federal lands prior to this purchase or before the BLM. To graze on federal lands doesn't require you to own property. What am I not getting here?

[Nine]

62. In one sense you're correct.

It really doesn't matter how long the small ranch Bundy owns has been in his family. It also doesn't matter whether his ancestors grazed on federal lands. The important part is that Bundy doesn't own the federal land; we, the taxpayers, do. And Bundy is in arrears to the tune of a million dollars.

But in another sense it does matter because 1) it shows what a liar Bundy is. Even though his claim was irrelevant to begin with, I think it says something that even the underlying facts have now been shown to be a lie... or at best a "weasel words" sort of half-truth. And 2) Bundy has sought from the start to muddy the waters. I really think a lot of people don't understand that the land in dispute does not belong to Bundy. I even saw this misconception here on DU. I think a lot of people are under the impression that the fed is telling Bundy he can't graze his own land because it endangers a desert tortoise or that the fed is trying to seize private property under eminent domain.

[Elmergantry]

64. Yes I agree but

I think its pretty well known he was wanting to graze on Federal Land.

I was under the impression this article would prove that his familiy never grazed on federal land back in 1870's, thus exposing the "lie".

Doesnt appear to do that at all.

Been having arguments with Nutters... would be an awesome point to show proof his family never grazed back then..

Ah well...

[Madmiddle]

59. By the Kochs.

For FOX unnews. Terrorist need to be arrested in Nevada. There, see, I didn't call them trolls.

[NYC_SKP]

65. You can call them trolls if they aren't DU members.

I sympathize with you, just want to help with where juries draw the line.

And if they want to they can hide a post even if you call someone who isn't a DU member a troll, if they like that troll.

For example, I have called certain self-ordained "progressives" trolls and had the post hidden, even though they weren't DU members.

So, take it easy, it'll be ok.

Welcome to DU!

[Baitball Blogger]

60. Repubs make it up as they go along.