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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBOURDAIN's stunning love letter to Mexico and Mexicans
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/anthony-bourdain-perfectly-captures-americas-hypocritical-re
[font size=5]Anthony Bourdain Perfectly Captures America’s Hypocritical Relationship With Mexico And Its People[/font]
“Our brother from another mother. A country, with whom, like it or not, we are inexorably, deeply involved, in a close but often uncomfortable embrace.”
“Despite our ridiculously hypocritical attitudes towards immigration, we demand that Mexicans cook a large percentage of the food we eat, grow the ingredients we need to make that food, clean our houses, mow our lawns, wash our dishes, look after our children. As any chef will tell you, our entire service economy—the restaurant business as we know it—in most American cities, would collapse overnight without Mexican workers. Some, of course, like to claim that Mexicans are “stealing American jobs”. But in two decades as a chef and employer, I never had ONE American kid walk in my door and apply for a dishwashing job, a porter’s position—or even a job as prep cook. Mexicans do much of the work in this country that Americans, provably, simply won’t do.
“In nearly 30 years of cooking professionally, just about every time I walked into a new kitchen, it was a Mexican guy who looked after me, had my back, showed me what was what, was there—and on the case—when the cooks more like me, with backgrounds like mine—ran away to go skiing or surfing—or simply flaked,” he wrote.
“I have been fortunate to track where some of those cooks come from, to go back home with them. To small towns populated mostly by women—where in the evening, families gather at the town’s phone kiosk, waiting for calls from their husbands, sons and brothers who have left to work in our kitchens in the cities of the North.
“In years of making television in Mexico, it’s one of the places we, as a crew, are happiest when the day’s work is over. We’ll gather round a street stall and order soft tacos with fresh, bright, delicious tasting salsas—drink cold Mexican beer, sip smoky mezcals, listen with moist eyes to sentimental songs from street musicians. We will look around and remark, for the hundredth time, what an extraordinary place this is.”
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blueamy66
(6,795 posts)and love what he has to say
from someone who is from Arizona....SPOT ON
fasttense
(17,301 posts)If they asked for a livable wage, watch his "love affair" turn into a hate fest. I heard him speak on the radio the other day. He said Americans are lazy. too lazy to work for him. They are always leaving, looking for better jobs. Americans just don't know how to work according to good old Anthony. He really trashed American waiters and kitchen help. My son is a waiter and NOT of Mexican background and he works his butt off to provide the best possible service to his customers.
Anthony is the biggest hypocrite I have ever heard. He likes Mexican workers, especially illegal ones, because he can get away without paying them a living wage. If they were to unionize, or get together and demand a fair and livable wage, he would hate them as much as he hates American workers.
He is all about paying crap and trashing anyone who demands good pay. His "love affair" is all a put on so he can continue making millions off of under-paying his employees.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I had 3 huge palm trees in my yard in AZ. You are damn right I opted to pay the immigrant who would shimmy up those trees with a machete hanging by a rope from his waist to cut the fronds. They charged $25 per tree....I'd give them $30 and a few beers. It worked.
The "white" landscapers...they wanted $50 per tree.
Am I supposed to pay the $50 per tree? Would you?
I don't know what the solution is, but they definitely work their asses off. And they will never unionize.
How do you know that Bourdain under-pays his employees?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I run an organic farm and never hire the inexpensive illegal immigrant labor. I pay top wages for my farm hands. If I have to make a living off of under-paying the people who help me than I'm NOT a very good manager. I want to make a living and be fair and honest. And I do have people who are of Mexican descent working for me, but they are immigrants who have their American citizenship and they are paid as much as everyone else.
The moment those wonderfully hard-working people stand up and demand to be paid what they are truly worth, is the moment when a lot of people like Anthony will suddenly think they are lazy and bad workers. Do you see Anthony advocating for a fair wage, even for illegal immigrants? Do you see him standing up and saying these people I so like to hire should be paid a fair and livable wage? NO, because he's all about making a buck off of cheap, cheap labor just like Wally World and McDonalds.
NO One has a right to cheap labor. If the only way you can make a profit is by paying low, low wages, than you are a really bad business person.
I use to work in Florida picking flowers and tomatoes alongside illegal workers. I vowed that when I had my own farm, I would never treat people like that.
By the way Anthony himself said he liked the Mexican worker because he could pay him less. He said words to the affect that no one in the restaurant business can make a living by paying their help minimum wage or better. They say the same thing about running a farm but I manage to make a living.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I don't know anything about running a business.
But I can tell you that everyone in my neighborhood employed the immigrant for landscaping needs.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)It's the way of the world. Why would I willingly pay someone MORE MONEY for the same, if not worse, service?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)It is the way of vulture capitalism. I could NOT sleep at night if I knew the people who were helping make a living are unable to afford the food they help grow.
And aren't we all paying for the declining wages in the end through reduce sales and increase subsidies?
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...of your benevolence if you created a co-operative farm. Let all workers share in the work and the profit. Or are you afraid of losing your 'status'....????
.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Okay, you want to pay these workers a more fair wage. Give them more $. Great. I'm all for that.
But, at the same time, you want ME to PAY MORE for a service. Is that fair to me?
whopis01
(3,514 posts)Assuming that the quality of the work was the same in all cases.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
eggplant
(3,911 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
eggplant
(3,911 posts)Your comment said quite clearly that the bottom line is all that matters. This pretty much goes against everything that progressives stand for.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)well, at least I think that I am....
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)eggplant
(3,911 posts)But if you are going to take the time to express them, then you have to deal with the fact that your opinions are repugnant to many, if not most, of the people here. Deal.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Your responses throughout this thread are highly disturbing right-wing talking points and anti-labor in every way. This is not about Mexican/Latino/immigrant or undocumented workers. This is about worker exploitation plain and simple. Even when it was pointed out to you by fastsense that you were promoting this practice, you kept on pushing these anti-worker fabrications.
You are arguing that you pay undocumented workers less to do a highly dangerous job such as hanging from a tall palm tree by a rope with a machete because it keeps more money in your pocket. In effect, you are EXPLOITING workers desperate enough to risk their lives for what little work they can find.
That is illegal for a reason.
It is illegal because it circumvents safety laws & regulations as well as wage laws. The tree company likely charges more than an undocumented worker because they have to pay things like TAXES, workman's comp, benefits, social security, etc. There are underlying costs for a company beyond labor costs. As was pointed out to you below, they also provide safety equipment and insurance both for you and the worker.
Hiring workers outside of jobs that provide benefits is the same argument people give for paying nannies and domestic worker less than minimum wage and working them without overtime pay, vacation time, or health care. The reason greedy people give is that Americans are "too lazy" to do these jobs. But, the truth of the matter is they don't want to pay. They don't think their workers are "worth" more.
Then you gleefully boast that you hire undocumented workers because, "they would never organize." That is yet another reason why exploiting undocumented workers is illegal. Workers have a RIGHT to organize, and usually in Democratic/liberal circles we support union workers. We support unions because they empower workers to demand fair wages and safe working conditions. Greedy employers hate unions because they hope to exploit workers as much as possible, such as paying substandard wages and working in unsafe condtions like hanging from a tree by a rope.
This myth/propaganda you are trying to push that undocumented workers are living happy, prosperous lives on substandard wages is beyond the pale. According to you, "Also, how come these immigrants who aren't being paid a fair wage are surviving?" The answer is, they may be "survivng" as in not dead, but they are often struggling and barely able to make it--hence, they will take whatever work they can find at substandard wages. Pretending otherwise is more cold-hearted willful blindness that politicians and employers use against the working poor. You may have one story in your experience of happy field hands living in company housing, with "houses of both are full of love and children and wonderful meals and family." But that is rarely the case. Visit the United Farm Workers page or look up the million of stories of farm workers being physically and sexually abused, intimidated, threatened, their wages stolen, and on and on. Here is a video showing the inhumane conditions of farmworker housing:
http://www.ufw.org/_board.php?mode=view&b_code=res_multi&b_no=8189&page=1&field=&key=&n=218
We need to have strong policies of a path to legal status to PROTECT workers, make sure everyone is paid a LIVING WAGE and works in safe conditions. Dodging taxes and exploiting workers is nothing to brag about. As with any employer-employee relationship, if you can't pay the proper wage for work, then you can't afford it. Capital is trying to push wages as low as possible in order to reap the most profit; not only should we fight this by showing solidarity for workers, we should make sure we are not unwillingly exploiting others for our own selfishness.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)The fact that a worker may be undocumented does not preclude paying him a fair wage. I always sought hard, honest workers, not their documents.
And btw, no human being is ILLEGAL.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)ICE is more likely to raid a small business than they would one of those $5 million farmers. A friend of mine's farm was recently raided and he lost about a years worth of production because he had to train all new workers and pay huge fines.
Most all people who hire illegal workers are paying them crap for wages, otherwise why risk a run in with immigration?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)ICE is the tip of the iceberg. I'm happy to be in mexico, where storm troopers are not a threat and folk can grow organically without the threat of deportation.
Of course, you could find common cause with other small farmers and business owners and fight the Gestapo. It won't get any better if you let them run roughshod. And then there's that niggly thing called a conscience and standing on principle.
No worker should be paid "crap wages". They should be paid what they deserve, irrelevant of where they were born, or what pieces of paper they carry. But it is your choice, either risk a RUN IN with ICE, or passively support a fascist policy.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Legal status to live and work in the United States and not be an American citizen?
If you are only hiring American citizens, you are discriminating against immigrants with legal rights to pursue work. Have you read the I -9 form?
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)that its rare to find a person with a greencard or work visa who made it to the US legally, and is looking for farm work?
Also, that we dont always put disclaimers of every aspect of every thing in every sentance we type for the internet? The poster made it clear that he does not want to risk ice intervention in his farm, and therefore hires people the government says he can legally hire. Not that he was discriminating against anyone, but that he was following the law because it will cost him dearly if he does not?
azmom
(5,208 posts)That's what was posted. I understand that he does not want to hire people without the legal right to work here, and he should not. It is illegal.
There may be a few legal immigrants that would work at a farm because it is hard work, but there are some. My father in law was one. He never learned to speak English so he had very little options. Also, some farm work pay per what is picked and if they are really good at it, they can make decent money. I used to know a few people that did that up in Oxnard, ca and they were legal residents.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
fasttense
(17,301 posts)it doesn't pay enough to feed them. Because giving up the little bit you do get is just stupid. The conditions some of those farm workers live in is horrible. They aren't making it. They are barely living. So, you are advocating all people who work hard should live in abject poverty too?
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)And I'm not JUST talking about farm workers.
I grew up in a farming town south of PHX. My best friend's family owned and still own a dairy...they were immigrants from Holland. 75% of their employees were Mexican, and they were given homes to live in. They looked pretty okay to me. My other 2 best friends (still close) are Mexican.
I've seen the living conditions of legal and illegal immigrants. For the most part, the houses of both are full of love and children and wonderful meals and family.
It doesn't pay enough to feed them? I beg to differ. Big time. They are SMART. They know how to manage their money. Maybe it's the American who thinks that this country owes them something....?????
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and lead often-desperate, unsettled lives. We should aspire to more.
roody
(10,849 posts)
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)to where Anthony make those remarks.
cloudbase
(5,519 posts)Hanging from a tree with a rope around the waist just screams of a workplace safety issue. I doubt the immigrant has any insurance covering personal injury or property damage, but could file against your property insurance if he were to be injured while working on your property. That price difference has the potential to cost you a whole lot more.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Nobody else in the neighborhood thought about it either. That was how it was done....whether there was a machete or a chain saw hanging from the guy's waist.
But whether it be an immigrant or not, isn't a homeowner responsible for an injury on their property?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I too am a homeowner who needs to hire help sometimes (now more than ever), and I'm low income. I pay a contractor $25 to $50 per hour depending on the job, and when I hire "help" with yard tasks, I pay yard/maintenance businesses $20/hour or kids (high school) $10 hour. And I don't have kids doing dangerous work. But I do expect them to work hard with me while they are here.
Stop and think about it. If you were doing the work, and only making minimum wage, would you continue doing that job? If it were a dangerous job, would you do it for minimum wage? Why would you expect anyone else to do what you wouldn't do?
I really don't get this "why should I" attitude coming from someone on DU. Do you even know what liberals stand for?
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I also know that I don't have to agree with everything "liberals" throw out there. It's called having an open mind.
Why should I attitude? Because I have to pay rent and buy food and gas and have electricity too.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)The landscapers you hired probably live four or five to a one-bedroom apartment
Codeine
(25,586 posts)This shit doesn't even begin to compute.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I don't have to agree with everything the Democrat party states.
I agree that the minimum wage should be raised.
But I also live in the real world and have to get by myself.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Never!
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Have fun!
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)
DebJ
(7,699 posts)wage of $7.50 to $8.00 an hour, and then a raise in 60 days or so, and most were at $9 an hour
or more within a year. Most were immigrants, Mexican, Salvordian, a rare other country of
origin here or there. As General Manager, I received a few nice bonus checks for several hundred
dollar most quarters, and I would share some of that with the kitchen managers whose bonuses
were much smaller, plus I would give $20 to a few line or kitchen employees who did exceptional jobs. They all did excellent work all the time, or they left our restaurant in short order. No moochers in my
place forcing others to carry their load. If others had to carry the load, we didn't need the mooch
there in the first place, now did we?
But I will tell you that I, too, would hire an immigrant over an American in a heart beat. In a heart beat.
They took pride in the great results they achieved. We all worked together, as a team. None of this mamby-pamby I didn't know I had to work today, or I was drunk last night, or coming in stoned. None of this perspective that as a worker, you do as little as possible and let everyone else carry the load. I managed restaurants for 10 years, and for 10 years, this pattern was consistent. My front of the house staff was mostly native-born American, and the turnover was very high. More than half of that turnover was because I wasn't going to schedule someone for not working while on the job. I also had a lot of good American workers (mostly high school and college age), but I had to work on maintaining that staff by constantly removing the chaff from the wheat. I rarely ever had an issue with any immigrants that I hired. Even when their English was non-existent or nearly so.
That's just the facts.
So, have you seen Bourdain's payroll?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)who work for me and the workers of European descent. True I had to go through a lot of turnover at first but then I finally got a good team that works well together. I found that people who had a tough time finding a job because of minor blemishes in their work history were so appreciative when you gave them a chance, they were really dedicated workers.
Anthony talked about how cheaply he was able to pay his Mexican workers as compared to those lazy Americans, I'll take him at his word. Notice Anthony isn't out there trying to make sure these wonderful workers are getting the pay they deserve.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)cheaply he was able to pay ... but I agree, immigrants beat Americans
when you need to get a job done, and done well.
And also, my immigrant workers were 'cheaper' than my American workers
because of the productivity difference.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)He is not a restaurant owner. He was a chef before he became a writer and later a television personality. When he speaks of working with immigrants, he's speaking from the perspective of someone who worked alongside them in the kitchen, and not as an "owner" who is worried about writing their paychecks.
And, for what it's worth, his experiences pretty much match what the restaurateurs in my family have seen. Most Americans think they are "too good" for that kind of work, and it reflects in the products they create and their reliability as employees.
Grown2Hate
(2,012 posts)Conveniently, however, I see no one responded to your post. When I saw this thread devolve into people bashing how Anthony treats or pays "his employees" (sic), I grew increasingly frustrated at the ignorance.
Initech
(100,079 posts)"We're not making food here people! We're creating cuisine! Food is what a rog eats, or a tourist!"
"Wait - a dog ate a tourist?"
"Why are you encouraging him?"
"That phrase was ambiguously worded!"
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)those day labor employers say they want undocumented workers from Mexico. The American and the Mexican-American are basically useless compared to the productivity and hard work of a Mexican, they say.
Desperation, exploitation...these are the people who should have a pathway to citizenship, they earned it.
I heard John McCain say he couldn't get an American to pick lettuce for $50 an hour. That may be true, but would an American be able to afford lettuce at $50 per hour?
Bourdain makes an excellent point about how the Mexican worker is the backbone of the American workforce -- and we don't even acknowledge them, except how they should all be shipped back to Mexico and how we need a higher fence.
They are a beautiful people who know first hand the devastation of greed and corruption. Money rules in Mexico. If you raise your voice in protest, you are most likely to be killed in excruciating and horrifying ways, as an example.
We want to intervene in the Middle East, the Ukraine, Asia, everywhere -- but Mexico? There is reason, I believe -- and it has to do with creating and maintaining despair, and the ability to sustain our system through exploitation. Why else is the status quo acceptable?
UTUSN
(70,700 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Bourdain has been commenting on this since "Kitchen Confidential."
I once got on an old school bus in Miami to pick tomatoes in West Palm Beach. I was the only gringo. When we got there, the bosses said, "We want them this big, and this color." I looked down the rows and saw not one single tomato. I asked the boss where are the tomatoes? He said this was just a last run through to get the last tomatoes, you know, under the leaves and near the ground. They gave me a basket and would give me a chit for every basket I turned in. After about an hour of crawling around on the ground, much to the amusement of the migrant workers, I delivered my first basket. The boss looked at the tomatoes and tossed out all but 4. He said, "This big, and this color."
I had to hitchhike back to Miami, cause 4 tomatoes weren't getting me back on the bus. But my respect for the migrant farm worker has never ended. And I love and appreciate tomatoes!
DebJ
(7,699 posts)
progressoid
(49,991 posts)
calimary
(81,304 posts)Glad you're here! I read your other post farther down - about your experiences picking tomatoes. YOU really went and walked in those shoes. Unlike far too many of the rest of us, I'm afraid. We have a close friend who came up here from Mexico - and he is the MOST talented, MOST industrious, MOST hard-working, MOST resourceful, MOST gifted at what he does - ALWAYS a beautiful job. ALWAYS goes the extra mile. Not a problem he couldn't solve, or a technique he didn't know about and/or do expertly. He taught me one really key fact: with the right tools, you can do ANYTHING. And sometimes I'd watch him and try to learn from him. They kept a little piece of property in Mexico and his family would go every summer, and forcryingoutloud he freakin' BUILT his entire house down there. From the foundation up. I became convinced over the years that there was pretty much nothing he couldn't do or build or fix. He built a tree house for our kids in the back yard and it was the talk of the whole neighborhood!
His kids and my kids grew up together and would go to each other's parties and sleepovers. If he came up here to do handyman work, he'd bring them, and they'd spend all day in the back yard with our kids, goofing and playing and climbing trees and giggling and digging in the mud and making mud pies. I'd spread out some of my headworks and marvel at what they'd design and create together. They were sweet and dear and well-mannered and got along with everyone. On the other hand, I'd see some Anglo kids at school who were entitled as hell, ill-mannered, and making trouble for other kids.
We have this haughty, dismissive attitude toward Mexico, and Mexicans. It's a damn shame. Indeed, I believe it - that without Latinos doing the "menial labor," our entire food production, service, and delivery industry would fall completely apart probably in less than a week. But are they appreciated at all? Do many of us even stop and think about it, about the role they play, the service they provide, the colossal overall contribution they make to our economy? Heck, seems like almost anyone with brownish skin who comes here is dismissed as "Mexican," when they may be from Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, or even farther south. And I've heard many times from those who own restaurants especially - that you can't get a white American to come in and wash dishes like that, or wait tables like that, for that meager a salary. Students maybe - but they tend to be the servers out front, and they don't stay all that long or expect to make a career of it. They're always pretty much passing through. It's the Latinos are back in the hot kitchen, cooking and washing dishes.
I appreciate Bourdain's observations a lot. I appreciate yours, too! I have a CONservative friend who rants frequently about all the illegals coming into this country and taking American jobs. She must watch a lot of Pox Noise because the talking points just come and come and come. Just like one of those old Chatty Cathy dolls - pull the string and there she goes again. I think I'll send her the link to Bourdain's essay. Not that I expect any conversion, but at least there'll be be OTHER input than constant Pox.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)My experiences as well...the fun us whiteys and brownies had together swimming in the irrigation ditches and playing in the hay bales and jumping on the trampoline and flinging cow mud/crap at each other and going to the rodeos and stealing cigarettes from the ranch hands and sliding down the cotton at the gin, where we'd get 5 cent soda pop....we never cared what color we were
You've nailed it.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I grew up and entered the workforce in Houston, Texas. I had to do what I had to do to make a living, and most jobs I had were side by side with Hispanics. I was big and healthy, and I could not go toe-to-toe with any of the Hispanics I worked with when it came to labor.
One time, me and a NY Puerto Rican buddy of mine were hired to unload a freezer truck which had broke down. There were 2 trailers back to back and a crew of Mexicans were already working, we were just more help. We get in the truck, and it is frozen quartered horse meat hanging from hooks. A Mexican shows us, lift the meat releasing the hook and carry it over to the other freezer and hook it back.
My Puerto Rican buddy tells me what we are to do, and I'm looking at this side of meat which is bigger than me! I grab one, I cannot lift it. I'm about to bolt, and he says watch. He grabs the side and lifts, as hard as he can, and the meat unhooks and they slowly fall over, the meat pinning him to the reefer floor.
This is why I remember this story. The Mexicans were laughing so hard they could hardly stand, but they grabbed that meat up off my buddy and hustled it over and hooked it. They told my buddy, just relax, nobody was watching, they'll move the meat, we tried, they respected that, but it wasn't going to cost us the job. In about an hour, they moved all that meat, smiling at us the whole time.
They got paid, we got paid, and we were all compadres. Brothers. I'll never forget!
Warpy
(111,267 posts)I could hardly believe carpenters could move so quickly. I didn't hire them directly, a contractor did, but considering the quality of their work, I'd hire them again in a NY second.
This city is a sanctuary, police not empowered to hassle Mexican looking folks on the suspicion that they don't have the proper paperwork. It's a sensible thing to do since you can only tell Mexicans apart from much of the rest of the population by things like body language. The state gives them driver's licenses that can be used for ID and to purchase insurance on their cars. The number of uninsured drivers decreased markedly when that policy was put into place.
I would like to see the ones who have been here long enough to establish a work history and put down roots be given expedited green cards. Their children born here would be citizens.
I can't see shoving such talented people back across the border. They've built a lot of this part of the country. They should have a means to stay here if they wish to.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I've seen some pretty crappy employers really exploit them. Makes me sick. The backbone of our industry couldn't function without their help.
K&R. Anthony Bourdain speaks for me.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)ago while I was working as a groom, many owners were taking a cue from other owners and the terms in which they talked was disgusting. "We're so happy to have our Mexicans." they would say. "How did you go about aquiring your Mexicans?", they would ask out in the open. Having Mexicans was great in my estimation not only because they worked hard while accepting a low wage, but the rich horse owners wanted to essentially own these people. They liked the indentured nature of their workers. They loved the fact that most were illegal and therefore not terribly likely move to other occupations. It was like a very thinly vieled slave holder culture.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)into legislation to harass "illegals". The more we can make immigrants afraid and insecure, the more we can exploit them.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Love bourdain. he put the hammer on bush during the lebanon mess
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)a restaurant and apply for a dishwasher and busboy position.
So, I don't know where he gets that white people don't want or don't apply for those jobs. That's just nonsense.
Otherwise, I think that particular show last night about Mexico was one of the best I've ever seen him do and I am a big fan of his TV work.
UTUSN
(70,700 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)glowing
(12,233 posts)I worked bussing tables/ dish washing. After a bit, I could serve tables. My sister worked as a housekeeper/ hot breakfast cook/ server at a bed and breakfast and we both had a job at a small gift shop... Now, my Mom does it part time around her job as a teacher. We also do the "family farming" for free, pick our apples in orchards, cut/ split/ stack fire wood... And it's everyone; females and males are equal opportunity hands and bodies to do the work. Now that I live in FL, I'm a soft body compared to friends of similar age who still live there. Plus they have their rosy VT mountain cheeks (it's like a permanent blush - and we tend to have more color on our faces in the winter from the cold air, sun and wind in faces as we ski, board, or some other winter event.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)do or don't want certain jobs is the mantra of the "job creators", who say that because they can exploit Mexican's much easier and than they can Americans.
When I was 20 (c. 1984), there were hardly any Mexicans in restaurants or in construction, cleaning, etc. And that was in Texas, where I have lived most of my life. I'm not sure about housekeeping or farming but on my uncle's tobacco farm, it was family and N. Carolinians, not Mexicans that harvested and hung the tobacco.
It's just plain nonsense that Americans don't want those jobs.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)Or when Georgia or Alabama or South Carolina, I forget which one, scared
thousands of immigrants into vanishing, and then the farmers had product
rotting because they couldn't get anyone to harvest it? That was just
like two years ago. It happened. That's why Colbert did the story.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)You can't snap a finger and undo the damage.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)You know why we don't pick cotton no more? Why we fought a war over it? It wasn't cause white folk are happy to work in the heat and humidity of the South, right?
I managed several national retail stores down here. When it came to hiring, if we had a choice, we were always advised to hire the minority applicant. The white applicant would never stay! This was work! And the white applicant had a lot more opportunity to find something else when they got a taste of retail (endless trucks, stocking, cleaning, run the registers - and don't you dare go over 20 hours!).
The dignity of work my ass!
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Things may have changed since then.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)And the areas I worked in didn't even have a high percentage of immigrants comprising
the population. But most of the immigrants worked two jobs, and I mean, two full-time jobs.
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)I worked in restaurants for years-dishwasher, prep cook, line cook. So did my brothers. So did most of my friends. I've been in construction for thirty years and to say that Americans won't do the work or Americans can't do the work is nonsense. I asked a sub contractor we use why he stopped hiring Americans and is now hiring only immigrants. He told me that they'll do any job, no matter how dangerous or disgusting, they'll work for next to nothing and if one gets hurt he'll just get another. His words. I told him that was pretty fucked up.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)for 30 years (still working -- but not as fast) doing 2 and 3 jobs and going to school, I'm incredulous at all of the generalizations going on about American workers being lazy. My mother, grandmother and great-grandmother ALL worked the fields in 100+ degree heat picking whatever was in season. Yes, they were "okies" in California and Oklahoma and I never knew harder working people in my life. I've worked next to Mexican-Americans and Mexican immigrants and I KNOW I worked JUST as hard as they did. I literally worked myself into exhaustion more than once. Why? Because I wanted out of abject poverty -- it's a wonderful motivator. These generalizations make me very angry and resentful and for very good reason -- I have the bad health and arthritic hands to prove it.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)It's less and less the norm to see a young American apply for bussers, for dishwashers, even for prep. If they work in the kitchen they tend to want, at minimum, a head cook position and often without the experience. Most end up working front of the house.
It's unfortunate but true, at least in my experience: kitchens tend to be run mostly by immigrant help. The citizens I see working the kitchen jobs tend to be single mothers with no other recourse and felons with no place else to turn. Is this 100%? No, but it less the exception and more the rule.
The_Commonist
(2,518 posts)And I have made an observation. Certainly, it's a generalization, but it seems to hold up as being consistent:
If a kitchen and delivery staff is made up of Mexicans (and to be fair, many of those "Mexicans" around here are from Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador and elsewhere "south of the border"
, everything is cooked and delivered (if that's what we've decided to do on a particular evening) quickly, efficiently, deliciously and with a smile. They get big tips and they know it.
If the kitchen and delivery staff is non-Mexicans (like the local Indian or Chinese places), things will be pretty average.
If the kitchen and delivery staff is made up of hipsters, everything will be a total mess. Ironically, one of the best places taste-wise in the 'hood is Mexican food, owned and made by hipsters, organic ingredients, and similar to Chipotle. They're usually out of at least one favorite ingredient, they usually get the order wrong, and it has taken them an hour and a half to deliver 2 burritos 2 blocks. Hipster delivery people always seem to drop something, are in a huff, or try to give you the wrong order. I suppose that's what happens when you have to deliver burritos to pay for those student loans for that M.A. in Pre-Columbian Art.
People around here would starve without the Mexicans!
Dorian Gray
(13,496 posts)Cause that place is totally overrated.
(I also live in Brooklyn!) Some of the hipster run restaurants are fantastic. But, yeah, the restaurants here are interesting. I have a bunch of favorites, and it's true that Mexicans are often in the kitchen, behind the scenes while the white hipsters are in front of the house.
Al Di La, a great little Italian joint, has actually promoted some of it's non-white kitchen staff to wait staff/front of the house. I was happy to see that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)fact that America's cooks and to a growing extent the world's best cooks come from Mexico, a fact very rarely acknowledged in the restaurant field. He traveled in that old episode to Puebla, home of arguably the best food on Earth, with one of his cooks.
I love Mexico. America should love and respect Mexico. We should be honored to have such accomplished neighbors with such a great culture and a cuisine that is a global treasure.
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)And you are of course correct that Bourdain has celebrated Mexican chefs and cooks for many, many years.
Atman
(31,464 posts)Last edited Mon May 5, 2014, 11:33 AM - Edit history (1)
Stunning. A little tough to watch at first, as it opened with the mind-blowing number of drug cartel related deaths in the city, complete with some pretty shocking video footage. But man, once he moved off into surrounded areas like Oaxaca it was amazing. I was very hungry! I've only been to Cancun (and Tulum and Playa Del Carmen)...Cancun is totally not "Mexico." It felt more like I was in Miami. I've had more authentic Mexican food here in Connecticut than we were able to find in Cancun. But the places Bourdain stopped at outside of Mexico City were just incredible. I believe the cook he speaks of above was featured. He said how corrupt the whole place was. He had a five-star restaurant that is sold out every night, and how he's been shut down because government officials would walk in, demand a table, and if he told them he was full and they'd have to wait, they'd call the police, kick everyone out and shut the place down for "health code" violations. I guess I can agree that it looks to be an "extraordinary place," but probably not it the same way Bourdain means it. It looks damn scary to me -- yet I felt perfectly comfortable walking around Thailand with just a backpack and no one spoke a word of English.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)or various barrios in the Philippines. While conversely, I have in many places in the USA. And there are muggings, murders and massacres in this country - for basically NOTHING! Whereas in Mexico, such killing is for turf and control. Not that this makes it any more acceptable, but at least it's for some, particular thing - and not just a grudge settlement.
Atman
(31,464 posts)We landed in a town where we didn't have a clue where we were. No cell phone. We had to walk half a mile down the beach from the ferry landing, down a dark road through some sketchy-looking neighborhoods. My wife was literally in tears. She was certain we were going to be killed. Of course, no one looked twice at us. I kept saying, we'll just walk towards the bright lights, that's gotta mean some "civilization." As it turned out the darkened road passed right by an incredible resort hotel. We cut through there, figured out we couldn't afford to stay, and kept going. We eventually found the main road and a bar with wifi, so I could use my iPhone to look up my sister's number, then make a pay-phone call for her to "rescue" us. I gotta admit, I was a little bit nervous just because I didn't know where we were, but my wife was so freaked out she couldn't even eat. Just sobbed that she was "lost" on the other side of the planet and we'd never make it home again. This was even after a week of island-hopping, taking ferries to places we'd never heard of, going to little villages where no one spoke English, carrying nothing but a backpack. It was quite a learning experience.
Still, I would be FAR more scared walking down a street in Hartford at night. Carjackings, muggings, random shootings happen all the time.
Logical
(22,457 posts)A concern for tourists?
And corrupt police?
Atman
(31,464 posts)That was kind of what Bourdain was pointing out. The tourists are just being tourists, they're not encroaching on someone's turf. But you can be caught in the crossfire. Corrupt police are a problem, but again, more for the businesses and dealers. Still, it didn't look like a place I'd like to go, stepping over dead bodies in the streets.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Atman
(31,464 posts)(Which, BTW, I have never, ever watched on episode); but, if you have a production crew of lighting, camera and sound guys all around you, with production assistants, you're hardly in danger of anything. Although Anthony did run into trouble when he toured the Middle East and they threatened the entire crew with imprisonment for filming the ruins of Ghadafi's compound.
I happened to catch a few minutes of "Naked and Afraid." One of the dumbest shows on television. Anyway, the dude apparently stepped on something and had a serious infection. They try to pretend these people are "alone" in the wilderness (despite the camera crew) and at great risk...yet a scene was literally cut off when the producer stepped in and said he couldn't allow it to proceed because of the infection, and they had to airlift the guy out to a hospital. Oooooohhh...pay me enough, I'll take my clothes off and pretend I'm at serious risk of death. Main-stream TV porn.
UTUSN
(70,700 posts)after the thread started that I was not putting forth an uncritical idealization.
LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)often tell folks, "Every day, 120 million Mexican people go about their daily lives, working, raising children, celebrating life." The drug wars are a result of US demand and the War on Drugs, and will eventually be contained by a people who want as much as we do to move to a healthier economy. But those struggles are a very small part of a vibrant and wonderful country. I travel all modes of transportation, including renting cars and driving between cities, towns, and villages. I avoid sketchy parts of cities and towns (I do that in the US as well), I have found Mexican people to be warm, wonderful, and always helpful. I avoid tourist destinations, not because there is any chance of violence (there isn't), but because those destinations and most American tourists there bore me. U Between Faux News and the glamorization of violence, an entire nation has been portrayed as teeming with submachine guns and outlaws. Not so.
Bourdain's comments are wonderful, pointing out the hypocrisy of our nation's attitude toward this neighbor (after all, the southwest US was once Mexico). The food industry in this country would collapse were it not for our Mexican and Mexican American workers.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)We have been living here since last October and just took a road trip from PV to Belize and back and it was indescribable.
We were fortunate to visit many towns and cities where we saw not a single gringo. We visited homes and roadside cantinas. We saw celebrations and mournings.
We were overwhelmed by the beauty of the country and those that live here.
Logical
(22,457 posts)I admit I have no experience there. The corrupt police is what I hear about the most.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Bourdain has a habit in all his writing and narrating of using trope after meme after stereotypical phrasing.
He writes his stream of consciousness with little editing.
In one paragraph he'll throw out five or six expressions to get his point across.
And he does that in almost every paragraph.
So I think he's simply given that phrase about jobs usage more from pulling out of his stream of consciousness than as actual fact.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)and have fallen utterly in love.
It and the people who inhabit it are indeed extraordinary.
While what americans are fed are stories from the borders, the problems with the government, the violence and drug cartels and anytime a mexican in the US goes wrong, the country is populated by some of the gentlest, kindest, friendliest, family oriented and life affirming people I have ever met.
Thank you, Mr Bourdain, for the love letter I wish I had written.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)all these people find these cheap Hispanic workers. The cheapest I find here in East Tennessee charge at least $10.00 an hour. I used to love hiring them because I could depend on them, way better then the shiftless pill-billies around here.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)They want specific hours, breaks, a lunch hour, work at their own reasonable pace -- probably report you if you don't pay or short them.
If you work them all week, when they hit 40 they want overtime.
Next, they'll come to you telling you a better way, asking for even more money -- and when you tell them you can't afford more pay, they'll start handing out Union cards!
And that's just the start!
12 million undocumented workers? Where are they finding work?
I bet you, somehow, as the recovery goes on, more undocumented workers will show up! Funny, that.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I paid them more than that 30 years ago to paint houses. Started them at $10/hr and if they were good I'd pay up to $20/hr. You get what you pay for.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I've been looking for a job for 3 months.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I can't imagine being in that position. I never really looked for a job though. I always searched my skill set and tried to apply it to my environment. Always found there was someone out there who could use my services. Once you let people know what you can do and that you can do it well, the work will come.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I was making $20 an hour at my last position.
I don't know if it's my age or the fact that I've only been here for 3 months or the fact that I haven't worked in about a year.....
But $10 an hour, full-time, would be more than enough to help with the bills here. My guy can make it on his own. Anything that I can bring into the household is extra.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)As the unemployment figures go down, the pendulum should start to swing back the other way. If your guy can carry the load, then why don't you try something more entrpreneurial. You obviously have computer skills and internet access. There's a whole world of ways to make money out there.
I wish you the best!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Thinking of someone I used to know, who would come out with racist remarks.
underpants
(182,826 posts) Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Most Americans have a very distorted view of Mexico, including many who come to visit. I have lived in several countries and traveled to many more, but before moving to Mexico, I had never found a people so universally friendly. And the food speaks for itself.
Mexico's pain is America's shame.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And I 'graduated' up to 'busboy/dishwasher' before I left for college.
If he's 'never' had an American kid walk in looking for any menial job, he either must pay crappy, or be known to be a horrible person to work for. Or have his restaurant in a place where everyone around is Mexican, I guess.
I think we maybe had one Hispanic on staff the whole time I worked at that first job, and I'd be willing to bet he was a citizen.
Bourdain seems to want to paint the accepted Republican picture of Americans as entitled, lazy people who are unwilling to do manual labour. Which is utter bull. We just want jobs that pay enough to live on.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Don't we all? But that is not reality. Or life.
I've deleted the rest of my post, cause I just know that I am gonna get slammed.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)As far as I'm concerned, we should have 'full amnesty' and make the 12 million or so undocumented types full citizens right away.
If we need more workers, then relax immigration policy and let more people become citizens. Allowing people to work 'underground' merely allows A) them to be exploited, and B) all wages to be dragged down.
If they're made full citizens, they can fight for living wages along with everyone else.
We don't need 'temporary workers', we need citizens, no matter what snippets of different DNA they might have.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I couldn't agree more.
Beausoir
(7,540 posts)The breads, the pastries are always amazing.
I am always happiest in Mexico. I love the people, the culture, the cuisines, the music, the art.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Nice article, terrible headline.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)I can't wait. It's my second home. I feel more attuned to life there than anywhere else.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Down here in Florida, they are living 20 or so, sometimes, in a rundown trailer or shack. Working more than one job. Stuff like that.
"Surviving" is a quite flexible term, different things to different people.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Loved it when he was in France.... French kids school lunched are better than most food I will ever eat. 
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Or deal with the working conditions, when, in many cases, they have other opportunities besides exploitation.
Make no mistake we are EXPLOITING immigrant labor in all kinds of fields. Documented or undocumented, they may be afraid to make waves and ask for what they deserve.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Working class Americans don't mind doing these jobs, but not at below subsistence wages. It's a lot easier to keep the family in food when they are in Mexico and can eat and sleep for a few dollars a day.
azmom
(5,208 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)It was a fun time. At that stage, the working holiday program was only open to Europeans. The bucket rate for stone fruit was $3.50. It wasn't huge pay but the backpacker girls were good fun and if you had a nice trailer and an easy bedside manner you could do okay, if you know what I mean.
The farms today are hiring mainly Koreans and Asians. They don't talk back much, and they tend not to report underpayment. Mostly the bucket rate is $2 and sometimes only $1 which is way below minimum wage.
The other trick is to put workers on such limited shifts that most of their wage gets spent at the farm store. I heard from a Japanese girl that just went picking strawberries that that is exactly what happened to her.
And this is all legal migrant labour (in Australia). I hate to think of how low the bucket rate could go if they had illegal labour as is the case in the United States.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I like Bourdain and agree with everything else he's saying. But the idea that these are "jobs Americans won't do" is provably nonsense when you consider there are many areas in this country which don't have that many immigrants and you'll find Americans doing restaurant work. Regardless of what your job is, there will always be an immigrant willing to do it for less. If an immigrant is doing the job, they should be paid the same as anyone else doing the same work. Bourdain is right in that we are now living in a country that is largely dependent on immigrant labor working at or near minimum wage, but we have done this to ourselves to our own detriment. Just because there's no shortage of people willing to live in squalor working for shit wages because they are still better off than where they came from doesn't mean it's a great idea to allow them to do so and to keep the minimum wage lower than what it takes to live decently.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And it's spouted by people on the left all the time.
The truth of the matter is, illegal immigration is allowed because businesses profit from it. Illegal immigration does depress wages in the fields they take.
Yes, Americans don't want to do work that pays next to nothing. Illegal immigration insures those jobs will pay less and less or fail to keep pace with the rest of the legal job market. Illegal immigration has been critical to Reaganomics. It's illegal labor that gets around all of the regulations set in place to protect worker's rights.
Of course Americans do the jobs illegal immigrants do, just for more pay and where there isn't a huge market for illegal labor.
I don't take aim at illegal immigrants themselves for all this. But illegal immigration has not been good for the US, it has been good for businesses, and continues to be good for businesses, at the expense of legal workers. Those are the facts. It has helped to widen the income and wealth gaps in society. And continues to do so.
Bourdain comes across, as so many on the left do, as defending a practice that destroys good paying American labor and supports free-market Reaganomics for the sake of defending immigrants from bigots. Well, you don't have to defend this terrible practice to defend illegal immigrants and promote them being treated humanely.
