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Nine

(1,741 posts)
Mon May 12, 2014, 11:54 PM May 2014

A feminist issue - caregiving of elderly parents

I'm not going to link to any articles on this issue. There are plenty enough to be found if you look. Let me just say this is a story that gets played out time and time again: parents grow older and start needing care, and who provides this care? Almost always it's a daughter, not a son. That's not male-bashing, it's just a fact. It usually falls on one daughter who lives nearby, often the oldest daughter, and often unpaid or extremely underpaid. It happened in my family, although it fell on two of us daughters rather than just one of us.

It's a feminist issue because it seems to be taken for granted that this is a daughter's job, not a son's. It's also a feminist issue because it's not treated as "real" work that needs to be compensated. In fact, if the daughter ends up living with the parent(s), that room and board can be considered by other family members to be sufficient, even generous compensation.

I just wanted to give a PSA to others who may be facing this someday; don't let yourself fall into the role of caregiver to aging parents without looking out for yourself in the process. You may think you are being heroic, but you're just being a chump if you don't protect yourself. Don't assume your siblings will appreciate what you do and treat you fairly for it. Caregiving is a difficult, stressful job with long hours. Treat yourself the way you would want any worker in the country to be treated - that's assuming you even have siblings who could be sharing the burden.

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A feminist issue - caregiving of elderly parents (Original Post) Nine May 2014 OP
It ended up being up to my brother, elleng May 2014 #1
I'm glad your family was able to find an arrangement that worked for all. (nt) Nine May 2014 #3
I cared for over 4 years after my dad after his stroke in 2000 FrodosPet May 2014 #38
It ended up being my BF's brother because of the exact same reasons. blueamy66 May 2014 #25
Sounds like you need frazzled May 2014 #2
Good advice KT2000 May 2014 #4
Do you have figures to back up your statement? Downwinder May 2014 #5
My brother took care of my mom the last 5 years of her life. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2014 #6
I know that feeling! FrodosPet May 2014 #39
I don't see it as a feminist issue Major Nikon May 2014 #7
"Most people in this country are still content with the traditional arrangement of the man being bettyellen May 2014 #18
The data just doesn't support your assertion Major Nikon May 2014 #20
I'm aware that the overall trend the past 50 years has moved women into the workplace. bettyellen May 2014 #21
Seems pretty evident that women prefer that arrangement Major Nikon May 2014 #22
It seems evident that you would like to believe that. You'd also like to believe the salary gap is bettyellen May 2014 #23
A pay gap study done by feminists puts it in the single digits Major Nikon May 2014 #27
Single digits, if it is that low- is not insignificant. bettyellen May 2014 #29
So basically your claim is your own perceptions trump competently conducted studies Major Nikon May 2014 #31
my perceptions line up perfectly what states found in their public sector jobs for the past 24 years bettyellen May 2014 #41
Strawman Major Nikon May 2014 #47
Like I said, there is no good data comparing compensation in the private sector. Got anything else? bettyellen May 2014 #49
So you want me to provide the proof of your assertion Major Nikon May 2014 #51
How can I get my little sis to quit wanting to be a SAHM? FrodosPet May 2014 #40
why do you think one woman- your sister- has ANYTHING to do with statistical trends? she doesn't. bettyellen May 2014 #42
Definitely not from money FrodosPet May 2014 #44
Good for her- I hope she is more successful than average with her plan to stay out of the job market bettyellen May 2014 #50
I think you have the causal link largely backwards. Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #28
LOL, I don't know a single woman who "focused on homemaking". They stay home a few months bettyellen May 2014 #30
I cared for my mother-in-law and both of my parents. Frustratedlady May 2014 #8
I did the same with my mother. There was no one left standing, literally. CTyankee May 2014 #37
Here are some figures. Nine May 2014 #9
"Daughters are more than twice as likely as sons to become caregivers for their mothers." bettyellen May 2014 #19
Not only that, you're on your own for medical insurance, unless you're Medicare-eligible. That is, raccoon May 2014 #10
It's becoming more of an issue, for sure. laundry_queen May 2014 #11
I can't even pipi_k May 2014 #12
I have a guy friend PasadenaTrudy May 2014 #13
My sister is the "primary caregiver"... meaculpa2011 May 2014 #14
True by necessity in my family -- all women. politicat May 2014 #15
I must be an exception to your rule. pintobean May 2014 #16
it is an issue-not sure if feminist--i am a male only child and yup its me dembotoz May 2014 #17
I'm personally affected by two elderly parent scenarios, and in both of them a son ... 11 Bravo May 2014 #24
I took care of my Dad, as I was the only surviving child. blueamy66 May 2014 #26
I don't get why you think that this is primarily a feminist issue... countryjake May 2014 #32
Yeah, I'm gonna need that link you mentioned. Jenoch May 2014 #33
Do you have sisters? Nine May 2014 #34
I wish you would stay on topic in your own thread. Jenoch May 2014 #35
So you understand how women feel when they are expected to do it by their brothers. bettyellen May 2014 #43
I meant to add this. Nine May 2014 #48
Happily, this was not the case - 3 brothers and 2 sisters, all pitched in Justice May 2014 #36
I belong to an Eldercare support group at work AnnieBW May 2014 #45
I could have used this advice 5 years ago. RobertEarl May 2014 #46

elleng

(130,974 posts)
1. It ended up being up to my brother,
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:00 AM
May 2014

because of his location and ability, financially and geographically, to do the job. We're an equal opportunity family.

I stayed with our folks in Florida for most of a year, and after Mom passed, my brother persuaded Dad to move to Iowa, and cared for him, in and out of assisted living, until the end.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
38. I cared for over 4 years after my dad after his stroke in 2000
Tue May 13, 2014, 08:12 PM
May 2014

I have not had a day since 2000 where I did not feel tired from it. If I tried the same thing again today, I am pretty sure the stress and sleep deprivation would kill me within months.

Honestly, there were times when I wanted to go to jail rather than remain in that situation. After all, I was already a prisoner in my own home - able only to leave only on the rare instances that I could find someone to watch him (and between the social services shuffle and his reluctance to have anybody but his son tube feed him, wipe his backside, dump his pee bottle adjust the furnace and fan, find his TV remote, etc., that WAS rare). At least in jail, I reasoned it would be OK to express my anger and frustration, instead of burying it deep into my soul while trying to keep a positive, encouraging face for him. But I persevered and fought the negativity as hard as I could until he passed from pancreatic cancer.

Bless the caregivers. People, please give them love and give them a break. Caring for a profoundly sick or disabled person takes every drop of financial, emotional, and often physical, energy you have.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
25. It ended up being my BF's brother because of the exact same reasons.
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:21 PM
May 2014

But he became a bit bitter about it. I don't blame him, I guess. But he insisted on going to see their Dad every single day after working very long days. Every single day. I couldn't do that for my Dad at the end. I would miss a day every now and then and felt bad about it.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
2. Sounds like you need
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:09 AM
May 2014

a copy of Roz Chast's new graphic memoir, Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?. It's been getting a ton of press lately. I laughed, I cried. Here are some excerpts.

http://www.newyorker.com/sandbox/sketchbook/chast-parents/

I might just say, issues with siblings seem to be the worst side effect of aging parents. You disagree about what kind of care is needed, what medications they should be taken off of, who is trying to make all the decisions without consulting the others, etc. You know what? I've decided that should not happen, and it's a dishonor to your parents to to ruin your relationship with your sisters and brothers. Let it go.

ON EDIT: I'm not so sure we should generalize about gender with respect to this issue. My brother, because he lives in the same city, has born the brunt of looking after my aging parents (88 and 97), along with his wife. Our parents have been quite independent until six weeks ago, when my father slipped on ice and broke his femur in three places. Then my sister came from across the country and spent a week with him in the hospital, and I and my husband have come from out of town to spend several long weekends caring for him after he got home. My husband is the best caretaker in the world. He took over the care of his mother (with my assistance) in a nursing home for the last two and a half years of her life, and was truly remarkable in his attention and care.

KT2000

(20,584 posts)
4. Good advice
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:20 AM
May 2014

Sometimes - a sibling will assuage their guilt for not taking on the responsibility by criticizing the caregiver. This I have seen even with paid caregivers.
It is a complicated situation.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
5. Do you have figures to back up your statement?
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:21 AM
May 2014

I was the primary caregiver for my mother's bout with cancer. I agree that it was the hardest job I have ever had. In addition to being underpaid or unpaid it means giving up other income. You do what is necessary.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,035 posts)
6. My brother took care of my mom the last 5 years of her life.
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:34 AM
May 2014

Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Because of the time spent he has a hard time finding steady work.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
39. I know that feeling!
Tue May 13, 2014, 09:25 PM
May 2014

It took me 3 years just to work my way back up to cab driver, making $4 to $5 an hour working 72 hours a week (six days, 12 hour shifts) after taking care of my dad.

When you have a 4 plus year gap in your employment history, you don't get a lot of calls for interviews.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
7. I don't see it as a feminist issue
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:38 AM
May 2014

Increasingly women are becoming the primary core family breadwinners in many households, but we are still a long way from being 50/50 from a gender standpoint. Most people in this country are still content with the traditional arrangement of the man being the primary breadwinner while the woman is the primary for domestic duties, which often includes taking care of the parents. Equal opportunity doesn't necessarily mean equal outcomes. Caregiving also means lots of different things which can include financial as well as domestic responsibilities. I also don't believe "almost always" is a fair assessment of what's really going on as the BLS time use surveys just don't support that assertion. If you take into account that men in this country are spending 40% more time in work related activities compared to women, the amount of time men are spending as elderly caregivers is actually quite high. The important point here is that taking care of elderly parents shouldn't be devalued just because women are spending more time doing it. Nobody is a chump for taking care of their parents anymore than parents are chumps for taking care of their kids. So long as we live long enough, most of us are all going to be on one side of that dynamic or another or both at different times.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
18. "Most people in this country are still content with the traditional arrangement of the man being
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:11 PM
May 2014

..... while the woman is the primary for domestic duties"

They do this because the man takes home 30% more, so it makes sense.

All those women going to college and catching up in the real world- not happy with that expectation that they sit at home doing unpaid work any more than men are. That is why they are in college, working hard. Even in working families, women do much more of the housework, and no they are rarely happy with that arrangement.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
20. The data just doesn't support your assertion
Tue May 13, 2014, 01:19 PM
May 2014

What you are either unaware or are conveniently ignoring is that there are far more women either not working or working part time. Go read the BLS time use surveys and you'll find men spend more time in work related activities while women spend more time with domestic activities. Total both and they come very near balancing out. Men are rarely happy with the arrangement of doing more hard physical labor in more adverse conditions with higher risk of occupational injury and death either.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. I'm aware that the overall trend the past 50 years has moved women into the workplace.
Tue May 13, 2014, 03:01 PM
May 2014

I am also aware that in the most recent economic downturn, that a lot of women did not go back into the workforce because child care is so damned expensive, it's a no brainer for the person with the lower salary to just stay home. Usually that would be the wife. To say that women prefer this arrangement is a stretch.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
22. Seems pretty evident that women prefer that arrangement
Tue May 13, 2014, 03:28 PM
May 2014

The raw gender pay gap for women without children practically evaporates and for younger unmarried women without kids the raw gender pay gap actually goes the opposite direction. This is true not just in the US, but in virtually every developed nation. Just because women have more equal opportunity to break out of traditional gender roles, doesn't mean they have to do so. That's what choice is all about.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
23. It seems evident that you would like to believe that. You'd also like to believe the salary gap is
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:09 PM
May 2014

a lot smaller than many studies suggest. We have covered that ground before.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
27. A pay gap study done by feminists puts it in the single digits
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:28 PM
May 2014

And even they admit part of what is left is NOT due to illegal discrimination. By the time you consider total compensation rather than just pay alone, the numbers do get quite small. Just because you find this inconvenient doesn't mean it isn't so.

I'm not sure who you mean by "we". I don't remember you ever posting any competent pay gap studies in reply to me. I've posted several and even those performed by feminists with clear bias still say the same thing provided you are willing to get past the bold print.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
29. Single digits, if it is that low- is not insignificant.
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:53 PM
May 2014

And no one can figure out the scope of what would be illegal discrimination, because there is no transparency.

From anecdotal info over the last 20 years, 90% of women I knew made significantly less at every stage of her career than her male peers. It is basically accepted that this is standard at a lot of salary jobs, but no one can get their hands on the numbers. So, your info is worthless, because there are no good studies w/ direct comparison of salaried jobs.
The gap appears to be closing because more men are taking shitty service jobs that pay a standard hourly wage. So there is parity there, god help us.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
31. So basically your claim is your own perceptions trump competently conducted studies
Tue May 13, 2014, 05:05 PM
May 2014

...even those conducted by feminists.

Brilliant!

People who conduct competent pay gap studies (including feminists) are well aware that measuring the scope of illegal discrimination is virtually impossible to do directly. That's why they factor out everything that ISN'T due to illegal discrimination like relevant socioeconomic conditions that can be measured. Many factors that are virtually impossible to measure directly are left, one of which includes illegal discrimination. If you don't understand this about pay gap studies (and based on what you just posted it's clear you don't), then you are ill prepared to engage in a substantive discussion on the topic.

Just sayin'

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
41. my perceptions line up perfectly what states found in their public sector jobs for the past 24 years
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:15 PM
May 2014

statistically, a gap around 30% for equal work, that has since narrowed a bit. I think the gap is closing certainly in the past 25 years, but we aren't close enough to equal. Most experts say between 18-22% at minimum. You seem to disagree with the majority of experts. There are no good studies on public sector salary jobs at all- and the double digits was acheived (11%) in public sector jobs because they worked to end the discrepencies in many states. They forced the pay hikes to women doing the same exact job, which is only fair after years of getting screwed. But the minute they stopped auditing, the inequities came back.

But, I bet you had read all about that, and discarded it because it doesn't reinforce your worldview. Why are people fighting against transparency of salaries in the private sector? Women need - and deserve- fair pay as much or more than men do.



Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
47. Strawman
Wed May 14, 2014, 06:22 AM
May 2014

Nobody that is competent on the subject is saying there isn't a gender pay gap. The question is what are the causes. You seem to think all of it is due to illegal discrimination which the "majority of experts" most certainly do not agree. You are simply reading into it what you want and filling in the blanks as you see fit, then making some abstract claim that everyone agrees with you.

"There are no good studies on public sector salary jobs at all"

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
49. Like I said, there is no good data comparing compensation in the private sector. Got anything else?
Wed May 14, 2014, 10:35 AM
May 2014

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
51. So you want me to provide the proof of your assertion
Wed May 14, 2014, 11:47 AM
May 2014

Because obviously you're just going to reject anything that doesn't say what you want it to say.

If it were true that there's no "good data" then that just means the best proof you have of your assertion is your own perceptions.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
40. How can I get my little sis to quit wanting to be a SAHM?
Tue May 13, 2014, 09:32 PM
May 2014

When she's got a job outside the house, she is miserable. When she is a housewife, she is happy as a clam, singing and playing with her daughter.

So how do I have to tell her that she is wrong, that she is hurting the cause of female empowerment, and that she is a bad mommy for not either putting her daughter in day care of having her husband stay at home?

I just don't see that conversation going well.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
42. why do you think one woman- your sister- has ANYTHING to do with statistical trends? she doesn't.
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:22 PM
May 2014

BTW, you might remind her she needs a plan for when the kids are in HS, and want nothing to do with her.
Raising children is not a lifelong career, so you might want to help her prepare for that reality. And the 50% chance she will divorce- if she has none of her own money- because poverty sucks. If she is one of the lucky ones with a guaranteed big money stream, I guess she can sit around and watch TV and shop and have fun. I really don't know too many people who can afford to stay at home for more than 6 months or so. That is amazing. Good luck to her!

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
44. Definitely not from money
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:41 PM
May 2014

Unlike the classic 1950s stereotype man of the house, he wants her to work. His happy dance when she got one job is the only time I ever saw him dance. Fortunately, they love each other deeply, and I believe they have a much better chance than most of succeeding in their marriage. He supports her, and tries to lift up her self esteem (and with her being a larger lady in this profanely judgmental world, that can be a challenge at times).

She's a smart young lady. I am pretty sure she knows about what you said. But this is her choice. She will have to make up her own mind, in her own time, based on her own feelings and analysis. But if it ever enters conversation again, and I'm sure not bringing it up , I am hoping to remind her of these things without coming off as "telling her what to do" (which seems to be WAY too easy for us guys, even when we are trying not to).

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
50. Good for her- I hope she is more successful than average with her plan to stay out of the job market
Wed May 14, 2014, 10:40 AM
May 2014

It is getting rarer all the time that women feel comfortable taking that gamble. Hopefully, she will find useful things to do with herself after the kids have flown the coop.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
28. I think you have the causal link largely backwards.
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:32 PM
May 2014

The fact that families where the man focuses on earning money and the woman either focuses on homemaking or divides her efforts massively outnumber the reverse is probably the single largest contributing factor to the fact that men earn more per capita than women.

The fact that women are discriminated against in employment is not a large contributing factor to the fact that families where the man focuses on earning money and the woman either focuses on homemaking or divides her efforts massively outnumber the reverse.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
30. LOL, I don't know a single woman who "focused on homemaking". They stay home a few months
Tue May 13, 2014, 05:01 PM
May 2014

or weeks with the baby and go back to work. No average worker can afford to stay home long if they have a mortage, etc.
2 working parents is the new norm. That men want to believe a woman wants to do- or "focuses on"- the housework in addition to working- which is usually how it shakes out according to stats, is comedy gold. Just no.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
8. I cared for my mother-in-law and both of my parents.
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:44 AM
May 2014

It is a tough job and difficult to shove the emotions to the side so you can make efficient and responsible decisions. My mil was a difficult situation as she was bitter and difficult to care for over the 7 years she needed assistance.

My parents had taken care of their parents, so they knew how difficult it could be and what a thankless job it was re:sibling criticism. So, they took care of the sibling interference, early on. Two sisters (one a nurse) were criticizing me for not getting Mom to a doctor sooner. (She was new to the city and most doctors were not taking new patients, so we had a 2-week delay. Both parents agreed that since I was the one to be doing all the work, make the decisions and carry out whatever treatment was needed at home, no one...as in NO ONE...was to criticize unless they were prepared to come home and take over. End of comments.

I am now in the position of needing occasional help with my own care and hope I can make the job as easy as I can, since the child responsible for the care is very close and I know it will be hard on her to make the difficult decisions (if I'm unable to handle my own affairs).

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
37. I did the same with my mother. There was no one left standing, literally.
Tue May 13, 2014, 08:02 PM
May 2014

No one.

I stepped up but it was still a bit of an uphill battle with some familymembers. OK, I had been long gone from the South and they damn well knew it and so what? I was in New England with my husband and kids and grandkids, so what's the beef?

Ack. Enough!

Nine

(1,741 posts)
9. Here are some figures.
Tue May 13, 2014, 07:39 AM
May 2014

I didn't want this to be a thread about statistics but more about the issue of caregivers being overworked and undervalued, which I think is related to the fact that most caregiving is done by women. But here are some statistics anyway, along with some discussion:


https://caregiver.org/women-and-caregiving-facts-and-figures

Estimates of the percentage of family or informal caregivers who are women range from 59% to 75%.

The average caregiver is age 46, female, married and working outside the home earning an annual income of $35,000.

Although men also provide assistance, female caregivers may spend as much as 50% more time providing care than male caregivers.


http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/daughters-still-are-the-caregivers/

But what happens when the crunch really comes and decisions are made? The researchers’ latest study of older mothers in the Boston area, recently published online in The Gerontologist, shows that among siblings, “if you live closer, you’re vastly more likely to have caregiving thrust upon you,” Dr. Pillemer said. “And if you’re the nearest daughter, it’s really likely.”

The researchers were a little startled themselves by this scenario, which appears to ignore almost 50 years of upheavals in women’s lives and roles. “It’s almost like being back at the turn of the century,” Dr. Pillemer said.

...

All sorts of personal history and relationship issues would factor into who wound up as caregivers, the researchers hypothesized. They figured it would be those children who were closest to their mothers emotionally, who had earlier received support from their mothers, and who had fewer competing demands on their time like work, spouses or children of their own.

Nope.

A feeling of shared values was of borderline significance, but otherwise none of those presumed factors played much of a part. The decision came down to gender: daughters were more than twice as likely to become caregivers as sons. And proximity: children within a two-hour drive were six times likelier to provide care than those farther away.


http://www.caregivers.com/caregiving/daughters-vs-sons/

Researchers at Cornell University have confirmed what many of us already suspect: Daughters are more than twice as likely as sons to become caregivers for their mothers. According to their study released this week, a daughter who lives close by when a mother experiences health problems is the sibling most likely to become the caregiver. My own brother passed away in 2004, and I have no sisters, but I hear from many other women that caregiving almost always falls to them as daughters (or daughters-in-law).

Other studies have shown that women are much more likely than men to provide daily hands-on care such as bathing, dressing, and feeding. If a man is involved in caregiving, he is more likely to be supervising that care from a distance.


http://extension.missouri.edu/p/GH6657

People are living longer than ever before. It has been estimated that the average American woman will need to provide about 18 years of some type of care for her elders. Because many women are marrying and having children later, they frequently find themselves in the sandwich generation, caring for their children and elders at the same time.

Family members provide approximately 80 percent of the necessary care for the elderly. Usually there is one primary caregiver and most often this is an adult daughter or spouse.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
19. "Daughters are more than twice as likely as sons to become caregivers for their mothers."
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:15 PM
May 2014

Yeah, it is pretty unfair that way. My brothers thought I'd quit my job. Instead we hired someone. Could not do that and not be miserable, she always liked my brothers much more. The few weekends I did were a nightmare.

raccoon

(31,111 posts)
10. Not only that, you're on your own for medical insurance, unless you're Medicare-eligible. That is,
Tue May 13, 2014, 08:19 AM
May 2014

if the caretaker is not employed, but spends all their time as the caretaker.

All too often one sibling does all the caretaking and the other siblings don't appreciate and treat that person fairly.



laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
11. It's becoming more of an issue, for sure.
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:05 AM
May 2014

In my mom's family, it was definitely the daughters that bore the brunt of the care...luckily they were already retired or almost retired. The sons were THERE just not in a 'care' capacity...their wives did more than they did.

I have one brother. I'll be damned if I'm going to be the one to take care of my parents...long story but my brother has had all the advantages while I've struggled w/no support (not my imagination or some kind of spoiled brat thing...everyone who knows our family agrees my brother is the favorite and has been treated like gold. Even my SIL and brother agree.) I'm a single parent of 4 who is just now finishing up my degree and getting into the workforce...I cannot interrupt that to take care of my parents while my brother has no financial worries in the world (he has had an amazingly well paying job for many years, plus his wife works too and they have no kids). And after some of the things my parents have done to me, I cannot see me dropping anything for them let alone everything. My brother will just have to play a larger role than what he wants to. Luckily, my parents are still 'young' and healthy and have insane longevity genes. If they take after their parents they have 30 more years to go before needing care.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
12. I can't even
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:53 AM
May 2014

imagine someone being a caretaker for YEARS.

I was caretaker to my MIL after she broke her second hip in 2004. She was in our home for six months before she died (less one month of nursing home respite care which we desperately needed once her dementia started getting bad).


At first nobody helped.

Then, about a month before she passed, an ER doctor finally signed her up for in-home hospice care.

Once the rest of the family heard that, they were here just about every day.

Even though, by that point, we had lots of help, it was still one of the hardest jobs I've ever had. Although one bright side to all of this was that I got to see a new and unexpected side to a few in-laws whom I didn't really care for previously. But I got to know them during all the days they came over and I'm thankful for that. In spite of the circumstances, we really had some good times together while visiting and caring for Mom.

And to get to the point about how women become the "natural" caregivers...there were times when we had to do some private stuff with mom, and even though her hospital bed was in the living room with a curtain we could draw, once we announced what we needed to do, there was a general man-stampede out the front door. Which, looking back, was really hilarious.



PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
13. I have a guy friend
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:59 AM
May 2014

who is the f/t caretaker for his mom. He's been doing it over 3 years now. She has Alzheimer's and colon cancer. He stays home with her, while another brother supports them both. It's tough but it is working out well.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
14. My sister is the "primary caregiver"...
Tue May 13, 2014, 11:08 AM
May 2014

for my 92-year-old father. She moved in "temporarily" ten years ago with a husband and two kids. Not for economic reasons, she just didn't like the town they lived in.

My mother took care of cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. until she died last year.

Thankfully Dad can take care of himself, but the house is a shambles and he can't keep up with the mess.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
15. True by necessity in my family -- all women.
Tue May 13, 2014, 11:47 AM
May 2014

In the last generation, I'd say it was more an economic decision (which sexism drove -- the two sons had more lucrative careers and the daughter had been injured on the job so she was a better candidate for the primary) but in my generation, I only have sisters and female cousins, and my mother's brothers all died young.

On the other hand, just because we're being forced into it doesn't mean we're not taking the economic issues seriously. Whoever is the primary caretaker gets a salary - with SS withholding - and respite built in. It isn't cheap, but getting old isn't cheap. We spend about $5500 a month for my grandmother's care.

The other issue is that the professional carers are often in low wage jobs. They may have some security and benefits, but their jobs are physically and emotionally taxing, and $15 an hour is not sufficient. Elder care is an overwhelmingly female profession and the women doing the job are likely to need their own care sooner than women in other professions -- joints take a beating, sleep deprivation for overnighters causes damage, empathy exhaustion causes physical distress. And from what I've observed, unionizing in care facilities is difficult because the carers genuinely care for their clients and don't want to do anything that might harm them, even if the cost is to themselves.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
16. I must be an exception to your rule.
Tue May 13, 2014, 11:58 AM
May 2014

I didn't do it to be heroic, for money, or to be appreciated by my siblings. I did it out of love. It really hurt me financially, and I sure as shit could have used a lot more help from my siblings.
The bottom line is, we all have to live with our own choices. I can live with mine, and I hope my siblings can live with theirs.

dembotoz

(16,808 posts)
17. it is an issue-not sure if feminist--i am a male only child and yup its me
Tue May 13, 2014, 12:07 PM
May 2014

mom is still in pretty good shape at 93
but i live here
keeps her out of assisted living.....

fricken killed off my love life--cause hell i am 60 and i live with my mom....

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
24. I'm personally affected by two elderly parent scenarios, and in both of them a son ...
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:10 PM
May 2014

is bearing the major responsibility for the parents' well-being. Both parents are widowers who have both daughters and sons, but it has worked out that sons are the primary caregivers.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
26. I took care of my Dad, as I was the only surviving child.
Tue May 13, 2014, 04:24 PM
May 2014

If my brother had still been alive, you bet your ass he would have been there with me.

My BF, who only knew my Dad for 2 months, would go sometimes and sit with my Dad, to give me a break. That meant so much to me and always will.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
32. I don't get why you think that this is primarily a feminist issue...
Tue May 13, 2014, 06:05 PM
May 2014

in this day and age, I have a feeling that location is much more of the deciding factor in who the responsibility of elder-care falls to.

In my family's case, it was my brother who actually still lived within the same state as my parents, so he was the one who stayed diligent to them as they grew less independent, with my sister and me visiting when we could. When sickness eventually came, I was summoned by him both times and went home immediately, but it was because of the incredible difficulty involved in their care, my ability to "drop everything" to go, and my sense of duty, that put me back in my childhood home, twice, to help each one of my parents die with grace.

I did not, in any reasonable sense, consider their care as a "job"...they were the two people who had given me life, and even tho one of them had been abusive to me in my youth, I wouldn't even have considered ignoring their helplessness as they left this world.

In my extremely dysfunctional family, my older sister and brother were more than grateful that their dumb-fuck little sister was able to handle dealing with our parent's care. Compensation never entered the picture.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
33. Yeah, I'm gonna need that link you mentioned.
Tue May 13, 2014, 06:10 PM
May 2014

I am the youngest of three sons. I was the primary helper when our mother was quite ill the last five years of her life and our father needed help. One brother loved 240 miles away. The other brother was the same distance away as I was.

Nine

(1,741 posts)
34. Do you have sisters?
Tue May 13, 2014, 07:00 PM
May 2014

I'm not saying men never do caregiving. I'm saying if there are siblings of both genders in a family, a daughter is a lot more likely to end up doing the caregiving. That's a statistical fact. I'm not saying there are never reasons for it. But those reasons themselves are often rooted in gender, like existing pay gaps and the fact that stay-at-home-parents are more often female. And sometimes there aren't good reasons - just an old mindset that caregiving is more of a woman's job. I'm also saying that caregiving work in general, like other jobs held mainly by women, tends to be undervalued, underpaid, and overworked. As I said, I'm not bashing men. But the fact is this is a problem that disproportionately faces women.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
35. I wish you would stay on topic in your own thread.
Tue May 13, 2014, 07:39 PM
May 2014

My only sister died 20 years ago last January.

Did I sometimes resent my brothers because I was doing all of the caregiving? Sure, it sometimes bothered me, but the guilt is theirs, none for me.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
43. So you understand how women feel when they are expected to do it by their brothers.
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:24 PM
May 2014

It does kinda suck. Sorry you had to go through that. I know firsthand it is not easy.

Justice

(7,188 posts)
36. Happily, this was not the case - 3 brothers and 2 sisters, all pitched in
Tue May 13, 2014, 07:46 PM
May 2014

It was heartbreaking because you don't want to see your parent sick and then die but it was a privilege to be able to care for my mom - I know that not everyone can, but we 5 worked together and found a way to help my dad do it.

AnnieBW

(10,429 posts)
45. I belong to an Eldercare support group at work
Tue May 13, 2014, 11:31 PM
May 2014

We have both men and women in the group, but it's primarily women. At least at this time. But, both men and women have this problem.

Where it is a women's issue is not for the caregiver, but for the aging women, many of whom never worked and only have Social Security and Medicare to live off of. Also, women tend to live longer than men, statistically speaking. So, yeah, it is a women's issue, but not in the way you think.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
46. I could have used this advice 5 years ago.
Tue May 13, 2014, 11:41 PM
May 2014

You know about this very well.

I was a good son. And was run thru the ringer. But i'd do it again. Oh, but it would be different the next time.

I hope everyone about to enter those gates of maybe hell gets a chance to read your words of wisdom.

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