Tim Tebow vs Michael Sam

[catnhatnh]

A lot of Republicans are saying that we are hypocrites because we scorned Tin Tebow's Christianity and embraced Michael Sam's homosexuality. I think the characterization is unfair-to judge them equally we first need to see Michael Sam in the end zone having gay sex on national tv....

[SidDithers]

1. Tebow's Christianity is a choice...

Sam's homosexuality isn't.

Sid

[Dawgs]

2. Beat me to it.

[corkhead]

7. It could be argued that Tebow's stupidity was not a choice

unless he ate too many lead paint chips as a child.

[Justice]

3. Tim Tebow's reputation is based on his ability/inability to be an professional quarterback

Tim could have played another position in professional football but he wanted to be a quarterback. (determined? selfish? stubborn?)

Many said he would not succeed as a quarterback - based on ability not based on anything else.

He received more (largely positive) attention from the media because of this "kneeling" than because of his "faith"

Kurt Warner is very religious - but people focus on his ability as a quarterback, not his faith.

Tebow is/was not a great quarterback and so he didn't get accolades from people because he wasn't winning games.

Michael Sam's career and his reputation will be based on his ability on the field. If he is great, people will love him. If he is not good, people will not love him.

[immoderate]

4. Tebow wasn't a major league talent.

Sam's abilities remain to be seen.

--imm

[joeybee12]

5. Agree...it was a pro-Christian bias that got him drafted in the first place...nt

[Jenoch]

11. Don't you think that maybe Tebow

may have been drafted into the NFL because of his two national championships and because he was the first sophomore Heisman winner?

[joeybee12]

13. No, not at all...all the experts were talking about how he couldn't throw,

but he had "intangibles."

And he was only QB for one national championship...played back up the first time.

Wasn't the first sophomore, either.

[Lurker Deluxe]

16. Just curious?

Did he have a winning or losing record when he played?

Pretty hard to say he "couldn't throw" when at one point he held every record there was for ... throwing.

I don't really care one way or another, but there have been way worse QB's who have been given way more time before they were put out to pasture, so to speak.

[joeybee12]

19. Um...what records for throwing?

They pretty much used him at Florida as a running quarterback..he rarely threw...I can't think of the Oklahoma guy who won the Heisman Trophy and went undrafted...he didn't fit in the NFL...Teblow didn't either, but he went first round.

[Lurker Deluxe]

21. .

At the end of his college career, Tebow held 5 NCAA, 14 Southeastern Conference, and 28 University of Florida statistical records.[73] He was the SEC's all-time leader in career passing efficiency (170.8), completion percentage (67.1%), passing touchdown to interception ratio (5.5 to 1),

He threw for 3K, 2.7K, 2.9K in three years ... I would say that does not qualify for "rarely threw".

Think of him how you will, it makes me no difference ...

Again, did he win or lose?

[Jenoch]

28. I attempted to find out who the first sophomore was that won the Heisman.

The only reference I could find was on Tebow's wiki page. So, who was the first sophomore to win the Heisman?

[Jenoch]

25. Who was the first sophomore to win the Heisman?

Tebow had enough talent to win the Hiesman. What evidence is there that he was drafted because of his religion?

I'm no Tebow fan. I ignored it when he was winning games playing for the Broncos. I'm just not a fan of hyperbole.

[rurallib]

26. I think it was Herschel Walker at Georgia in the 80s

Heisman trophy and success as a pro are often 2 entirely different things.

Tebow purposely brought the scorn because he had to make such a big, public display of his faith.

Just guessing, I doubt we will see such a display of public homosexuality from Sam - or anyone else.

[Jenoch]

29. Herschel was a junior. His freshman season was in 1980. He won the Heisman after the '82 season.

I'm not after this information because I'm defending Tebow, it's because I'm OCB.

[rurallib]

31. what is ocb?

[Jenoch]

32. Obsessive Compulsive Behavior

I'm not really OCB, as in a medical diagnosis, I'm just a bit obsessive about facts.

[rurallib]

35. you were right Tebow is the only sophomore to win it

I don't follow sports very closely any more.
I especially don't follow pro sports until they start their tournaments.
For the most part I could care less about Tebow. I am bothered by those who promote themselves, especially through religiosity.
In the list of Heisman trophy winner I note many quarterbacks who played little in the pros including fellow gator Danny Wuerful.

Well, I apologize and shall move on.

[Terra Alta]

12. And he turned out to be a major bust

And conservative Christian started howling, saying teams passed on him because of his religious beliefs. No, it was because he was a lousy QB; his religion had nothing to do with it.

[joeybee12]

14. Made no sense to draft him, especially not the first round...

But they knew they'd sell jerserys because of his fanatic, fundamentalist fan base.

[Dawson Leery]

6. Sam's sexual orientation is not a choice.

Tebow's religion is. Mr. Tebow never had the ability to play in the pro's. He built a cult around his religious fundamentalism.
That following will not give you a successful career in the NFL.

[jmowreader]

41. Tebow never had the ability to play the position he wanted in the NFL

He could have done well as a tight end or running back, but let's be real: the only running back who's a household name is Marshawn Lynch.

[Lex]

8. Maybe one day Christians will be able to be President or marry their sweetheart

or get to keep their jobs and not be fired because of their Christianity.

They have it so bad, we must all rally behind them!

[Terra Alta]

9. The difference between the two

Christians are a majority in this country and are not being persecuted on a daily basis. It took a lot of courage for Michael Sam to come out, knowing many people would hate him just for who he is. Tebow, OTOH, didn't face that same risk, proclaiming you are a Christian does NOT take courage when a majority of the people in the US are Christian. I am a Christian also, I just don't feel the need to proclaim it at every given opportunity.

[rocktivity]

10. As far as I know, Sam isn't going around insisting that everyone SHOULD BE gay

just that everyone should stop fearing it.

The root of Tebow's problems lay not with his religion, but with his athletic abilities.

P.S. Would Tebow have been "embraced" by those same Republican's if he'd been a Muslim, Satanist, Mormon, pagan, or -- worst of all -- an athiest?


rocktivty

[liberal N proud]

15. Tebow all show - no go

Sam, professionally, I will wait and see.

Either one can do whatever they want, be who they are and both should only be judged in their profession by their talent.

[MADem]

17. One can't play good football....the other can?

One likes to ostentatiously display his preference for religious piety on the football field, while in uniform....and the other likes to play football?

Not sure what we are supposed to compare, here. One guy is a lot of flash and knee-bending, the other plays football.


Near as I can tell, anyway....

[FarCenter]

18. Being drafted 249th out of 256 was not necessarily good for Michael Sam

The St. Louis Rams Don't Need Michael Sam — And It's A Worrying Sign For His Career

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-sam-drafted-espn-2014-5

He would have been better off as a free agent.

[Aerows]

20. Honest question

Why does homosexuality scare the living shit out of people?

It isn't as though you are going to be thrown in a Jacuzzi with same sex people just because you say hello to the person on your street that is gay.

I do not get it.

[Lochloosa]

22. It's called the Deep Out...and Tebow can't throw it.

Not enough arm strength. That's an automatic disqualification for a NFL quarterback.

Michael slams QB's to the ground that can't throw the Deep Out.

That is the difference.

[Upton]

23. I can see the comparison..

both Tebow and Sam are being judged for reasons other than their ability to play football.

[n2doc]

24. I'm trying to see how he was 'scorned'

He was mocked for being a bad player and being ostentatious/ridiculous with his faith (Tebowing). Lots of very religious players and coaches out there who nobody 'scorns'.

If Sam runs around with a big rainbow flag and makes a fool out of himself, especially while not producing, he will be mocked too. But I would be willing to bet money that he will keep focussed on football and keep his private life as private as amy other player's.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. They both suck at football

So it doesn't really matter.

[Jenoch]

30. I still don't understand why there are comparisons between these two people.

I think if a comparison needs to be made between Michael Sam and an NFL draft pick it should be with Sean Renfree.

[gratuitous]

33. That's a good question

The folks bringing it up seem to be mostly Tim Tebow fans, as if he was the first ever openly Christian football player drafted by the NFL. But then, looking for logical consistency from a certain stripe of Christian evangelicals isn't recommended.

[Jenoch]

34. I am quite sure that there have been thousands of NFL draftees

in which the NFL team making the pick knew about their Christianity.

[gratuitous]

36. That was sort of my point

Being a Christian football player isn't exactly a hen's-teeth rarity; Sam is the first openly gay football player to be drafted. The comparisons being forced by certain people in order to level charges of hypocrisy aren't made in good faith (you should pardon the expression).

[jmowreader]

42. Most of them could play pro football, though

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. Threads like this generally suck for a simple reason

People disregard Tebow because he's religious, and they dismiss his football skills.

Then they elevate Sam because he is gay, and they inflate his football skills.

Neither is very good. Tebow, because he lacks the skills, and Sam, because he isn't an elite athlete for his position.


I know: I'm a fundy for not cursing Tebow, and a homophobe for not nominating Sam for the Hall of Fame. Whatever.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

40. I agree with you...

Scouts have said that Sam's physical skills are questionable. He'll face an uphill battle to make the squad.

It's still an important "first" in history.

[Shannon1981]

38. Christians are not an oppressed minority.

Gay people are.

Christians have been playing in the NFL without a problem since its inception.

Openly Gay people have not.

Christianity is a choice.

Homosexuality is not.

Christians enjoy full rights (and then some, arguably) under the letter of the law.

Gay people do not.


I could go on, but you all get the picture. No comparison whatsoever. All the "hypocrisy" talk from conservatives is really just them airing their persecution complex for the world to see.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

39. Tim Tebow was not the first Christian ever drafted by the NFL

Sam is a historic "first" in the history of the League. I just feel sorry for the second openly-gay player -- he's going to have to face all the same shit but get none of the recognition.

Don't believe me? Who was the second African American to play in the major leagues?