I had a brother, and now a nephew that remind me very much of Elliot, and it is scary to contemplate

[bettyellen]

but of course this weekend, it is inescapable.

My oldest brother, Johnny had very similar problems growing up. Inability to make friends, uncontrollable tantrums and crying fits, unable to handle it when life wasn't - as he saw it- "fair". People saw he had deep insecurities, and a tendency to judge harshly and flare up, they started to avoid him, and to mock him. A few kids tried to be kind and befriend him here and there, but honestly my brother would pull some hostile shit, and that would soon end. Strikingly similar to Elliot, the issue being seen for a long time was "inability to make friends".

He became more and more isolated as he grew past the "kids play in the street" stage into the cliques of high school. He never had friends as a teen. He was pushing his luck with his family too, as much as we loved him- he would often engage in little acts of spiteful torture, enjoyed making us cry, and often causing a ruckus. He was very smart, creative, funny, and could be very loving too. As he got older, he raged against his younger sisters, destroying their things and mocking them brutally as he saw them becoming popular and having a life he knew he couldn't.

I knew he loved us younger kids, but he seemed to really hate my two sisters. He had a few suicide attempts, and went in and out of hospitals for four years. My sisters were embarrassed and drifted away from the family as soon as they possibly could. They partied a lot, and everyone blamed my mom for having no control over her kids. She was completely overwhelmed, on the edge of poverty and had five other kids to worry about. I grew up knowing things could explode into a literally bloody mess at any time, that he was now big enough to hurt us and that the only solution was to exile my brother. But I was upset my sisters wanted him gone. Now I understand better why they felt that way. I wanted to be anywhere but in that house for a lot of years.

He was at some point (I believe after it was established he was hearing voices) diagnosed with schizophrenia on top of his already deep depression. This was fairly common in my mother's side of the family. There had never been anyone cured, just sent away to asylums. There was no treatment back them aside from heavy psychotropics, and he was dulled and drugged out much of his last two years on earth.

But he still loved us little ones, and could relate more to us because we weren't as burdened by his failure. He taught me to shoot pool and use a speed bag during our visits. I was employed to cheer him up a few times a week on phone calls, and remember the last one-describing our new puppy to him, how it was a joke gift for Mom's birthday, whether she wanted it or not. He eventually ran to the roof of the psychiatric hospital being chased by security after setting a fire on his ward, and jumped. That was my Mom's birthday, and it made people blame her all the more.

I have a nephew with all the same troubles, and his future scares the crap out of me. I don't want to offer up details on that, so please don't ask. My sister in law would get angry and shut down any conversation about his obvious misery and extreme isolation insisting all was fine. She strives to make him comfortable and normalize it. She has exiled me (over money issues I cannot fix, a few years ago) and her husband / my brother (a functioning alcoholic) has long ago left all family decisions to his wife. But last I heard they were doing no counseling or treatment. They do not see my remaining sibling either, SIL hates his wife. I haven't seen the kids in a few years despite trying to mend things. In a small selfish way it is a relief, because their son's behavior actually frightens me. More so as he heads into puberty where things get much rougher for kids like him.

I am not trying to diagnose here, I am not certain how differently they would classify my brother if he were around today. But it was always apparent that he processed things differently, there always a wall between him and the rest of us and eventually it became unbearable. I imagine there were clues he would one day be full on psychotic sometimes, but we did not know until he hit his teens.

I am not sure why I am even telling you all this, except to say it is very sad to see that after all these years there is still very little understanding or support for those who suffer and their families. I have seen the results of living in shame and hiding under a rock has on survivors, and refuse to do that. I am just grateful that my brother never hurt anyone badly, and I still love him. I do worry about my nephew though, and hope that things turn out okay. It is such a painful thing to watch, the inability to develop into someone who is happy and accepted by any peers, the negative feedback loop, the off the wall ideation. I do not wish it on anyone.

[shenmue]

1. Mercy

[KT2000]

2. Well said

In the discussion of mental illness, we have to go beyond abstractions and you did that with this post.

[mike_c]

3. whenever something like the UCSB shootings occurs...

...I think it's most important that we try to understand it rather than to condemn the perpetrators or to find blame elsewhere. We can assign blame rationally with understanding. Without understanding, condemnation is simply a knee jerk reaction. We have to look to our own experiences for understanding, at least for a beginning.

[bettyellen]

5. I do condemn his sick attitudes, and am relieved that very few feel that way. All the while

understanding that there had to be some brain malfucntion happening as opposed to "evil". And knowing we need much better gun control laws and procedures in place to prevent these sorts of tragedies. The family would have welcomed some intervention. They tried.
Thank you.

[demigoddess]

18. amen on the gun control

we have a lot more mentally ill than we realize. I would not have wanted to see my mother anywhere near a gun. She would lose track of reality and blame me for imaginary things and sometimes beat me for crazy reasons. Would not have wanted a gun near her. Fortunately the crazy people in my family seem functional.

[bettyellen]

20. I shudder to think what would have happened if we had guns around. Johnny did enough damage with

broken glass, blunt objects and drain cleaner. I remember once a panic after a visit because we had left a butter knife in with the Entenmann's cake box we brought to the hospital. I am glad guns were not an added worry.
Sorry to hear about your Mom, rough, I know. If you want one -->

[demigoddess]

27. right back at you

I think it is harder when they are your siblings or children, you can't just move out, like I did. And never been back!!

[catrose]

28. I felt that way about my mother too

Unfortunately, there was nothing to prevent her from driving to the hardware store and buying her own gun, despite being visibly distraught. I mean, it was a small town; everyone knew her. Could the store owner have not delayed her and got someone to call the police? Could the police have done anything?

She drove down a deserted road that night and killed herself with her new toy.

[bettyellen]

43. Oh catrose, I am so sorry

I know what it's like to think "if only..."

[Roarybeans]

46. Brain malfunction

We have a long way to go, but I think your right. We no longer label physical problems as evil, nor should we be so quick to damn these troubled souls to Hell.

[bettyellen]

79. My third grade teacher told my entire class Johnny was not going to heaven -

I was a skeptic before that, but that made me an atheist. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have bitten my tongue when someone mentions " gods plan" or even "meant to be". Such hurtful words, really.

[BrotherIvan]

4. Sharing stories like yours helps others to understand

I know the first reaction when a young person commits one of these atrocities is, "Why didn't the parent do something?" But your story tells us how so many parents try and try and are at the end of their rope. I wish there was something to be done to help your brother. It seems as if the treatment has not advanced very far. And now with easy access to guns, it's a dangerous mix.

Thanks for sharing. It must have been very hard to write. Peace to you.

[bettyellen]

9. I hope so. Those of us in favor of gun control cannot afford to ignore this issue...

merely because the NRA wants us to look at it. We need to look at it anyway, and to work on better gun control.

And you are absolutely correct- first reactions are "why did the parent not......" Except back when I was a child, it was the Mom, Dads were never blamed unless they were known abusers. My Mom felt like an abject failure her whole life becuase it was her bad genes, and her child to take care of.

[hlthe2b]

6. There are no easy answers, but families dealing with mental health issues clearly need more support

than they are getting. My heart goes out to you.

I recall the situation with my cousins' Aunt Jan many years ago. I can remember my father and uncles talking about her on many an occasion growing up. Jan was specifically undiagnosed (most likely manic-depressive, but possibly schizophrenic), but self-medicated with booze She was lucky to live in a small rural farm town, where "eccentricities" were more 'forgiven' and people tended to watch out for these souls. She had many run ins, given her propensity to drink and probably scandalized many with her lost sexual inhibitions between marriages. But, worse for the entire family was when she became violent with her frail, aged Mother, beating her senseless on more than one occasion. And when her mother died, the town sort of had to pick up the pieces with Jan, continuing to watch out for her. There just was no one else.

Nonetheless, she (Jan) was undoubtedly "lucky" to have lived when and where she did.

[bettyellen]

10. thank you, and yes, so much depends on the community. If my brother survived the 70's he'd likely

have been tossed out into the streets of NYC in the 80's, when they closed so many institutions. There are a lot of scenarios that go through your head, but no easy answers. Thank you for sharing your Aunt Jan's story. My heart goes out to you, and all those who loved her.

[PeaceNikki]

7. People are complicated creatures.

I have a son only a few months older than Elliot Rodgers. He's had his share of struggles in life. Like you, I don't want to get into it here, but I sympathize with the families.

And you.

[bettyellen]

16. Yes, we are. You never know what people are quietly struggling with. And this is not something I

could have easily shared till many many years later. It's not easy now when it comes up, people are horrified and don't know what to "do" with the information. I am hoping I can play a small part into removing some stigma.

Your son is lucky to have such a smart and compassionate supporter in his Mom. I wish the both of you the best.

[PeaceNikki]

19. It's true.

Brains, strength and compassion are some of the things I admire in you, betty. Thanks.

[bettyellen]

37. Wow.

Best compliment I have ever received in the many years I have been here, partly because it is from you!
Thank you for saying that. Means so much.

[Raine1967]

8. I really appreciate this post.

I have a nephew that I worry about as you do yours.

I can't go into it here either. I will say that my nephew is getting and accepting the help he needs. This particular tragedy bothers me so very very much -- I think you helped me to find the trigger as to why it does.

ETA: I'm sorry about your brother.

[bettyellen]

17. I am glad to hear he is getting help. I had no empathy even reading his bio at first, and then said

oh wow, the stages are exactly the same as what I saw in Johnny as a child. He was just willing to blame himself more than Elliot, so we had a better result, I suppose. The life long pain families go through with this is often forgotten in a search for easy answers.
I hope talking about it has helped you too. I rarely find it is a good time to share this, but felt like now might be an okay time and place. Thank you, and good luck with your nephew.

[Raine1967]

24. I didn't want to read it either, and I am not done yet.

being that it's my nephew (and not my child) I cannot speak of it on a public forum.

Alternatively even if he was my child, he would still be a young adult, and not my place to speak about it here on DU.

You make a good point, about Elliot being more capable of blaming others rather than himself. It's thought provoking. I don;t have an answer to that, just something to ponder, I suppose. Thank you, and I wish the very best for your nephew. I truly mean that.

My nephew is still here, and with us. And that makes me happy. His happiness, is something that he has been given the tools to find for himself. and from all that I am hearing from my family and him, he is doing just that.

It's not an easy road, and all I am is an Aunt.

[bettyellen]

25. It is a tough read, he seems completely selfish and jealous of any little thing anyone else has that

he does not. Jealous and angry from age three to the day he died. It was quite alienating and just hateful how shallow and mean he actually was. My brother was difficult, and even dangerous sometimes, but not so mean spirited.
But I remembered the crying jags and tantrums were a constant in my home too. What got through to me were the family's endless attempts to help him socialize, arranging play dates and encouraging him to engage with others, switching schools and fostering new hobbies and how he enjoyed them at first- but then it all turned to shit. That was very familiar.
The trying to minimize it because they are already paranoid and likely to explode while doing everything you can dance is very hard one. That was when I saw my family in this.

[renate]

11. thank you for sharing your story

Growing up like that must have been so painful... I can't imagine. I am so sorry for everything that your family went through--your mother, you, your siblings, and your brother. Every one of these people suffering so badly because of a mental illness that he never wanted or asked for or did anything to deserve.

Your experiences have made me realize in a more than hypothetical way that every person with mental illness has a story AND a background full of people whose lives have also been marked by that illness. Like almost everyone else, when I read about Elliot Rodgers I simply first thought "What a raging asshole," but there was so much more to his thought processes than that. Thank you for giving us a glimpse into what his illness must have been like.

And best of luck to your nephew and his family. It sounds like he needs it, especially if they aren't getting him any other help.

[bettyellen]

13. I appreciate your post Renate, I had the "what a raging asshole" reaction too, even though I should

known better that it's not the whole story. There have been posts trying to rationalize his hateful ideology he came to espouse that I don't think are very helpful at all. His thought processes were completely fucked, and we I would never suggest we should look for excuses for that sort of hatred. Neither do I believe he was "evil" instead of very badly damaged. His problems have an organic source.
It is unfortunate that the mentally ill can latch on to fringe ideas to explain their distorted view of things.

I am glad I made you rethink it a bit. And others have shared, which can be difficult. It was so on my mind last night after reading his bio. There but for a roll of the dice was my family. Thank you.

[Blue_Roses]

12. Thank-you for sharing your story and your honesty

on how it made you feel. So many just try to sweep it under the rug, which does nothing but perpetuate the problem.

I don't know what it's going to take to get our society to accept that mental health is as important as our physical health. As a Social Worker, I have seen some strides being made, but we still have a long way to go.

God bless you and your family.

[AverageJoe90]

14. All I can say is.....good luck. Hope your nephew gets the help he needs.

(P.S. sorry about your brother, btw. )

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I understand. I have worried about this

with my own family.

I am so sorry for what your family has been through.

[bettyellen]

21. I wish I could ease your worries, and wish the best outcome for

your family. Thank you for sharing. I think it helps a bit to stand for those we love.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Thank you! Maybe it will be OK and he will grow up fine. We just have

to keep trying.

[PasadenaTrudy]

23. Thank you for sharing this...

I grew up with an older sister who was a heroin addict. This was the late '60s and '70s. She even knew one of the Manson family girls, for godsake. I'm so glad we didn't have guns around. She did do jail time....long story, not getting into it. It was tough on my parents. They did what they could.

[bettyellen]

30. yeah, drama like that will make you grateful there were never guns around, I get it.

Sorry about your sister.

[Aerows]

26. I don't know what to say bettyellen

It's a good thing to tell your story long before something catastrophic happens so that you can get ideas on what to do in the even that something catastrophic *DOES* happen, and know that people support you.

It is a horrific thing to see. Love him the best that you can, try to steer him in the right direction towards counseling, and probably if too far gone, he needs medication. In all of these cases it was the ones that were seeing a therapist but refused to take their medication. It might be beneficial to ask in some cases why they refuse the medication. Sometimes it makes them feel sleepy and they go to lay down, but then they can't breathe because it causes overactive sinus drip (for example).

Really shy people aren't going to tell you these things so you have to ask them directly - "Is there a biological reason why you don't want to take your medicine?" i.e. can't breathe, highly constipated, etc.

I don't know any other suggestions. It is so sad that we have people in our society that are or COULD BE otherwise good people but end up being bombs.

[bettyellen]

29. I will probably never see my nephew, as my SIL is one huge grudge holding control freak

and I am not allowed to visit them. She has made a choice long ago to ignore his depression and isolation, and I think she has plans for him to be her manservant as she gets older, maybe get a job and come straight home and do her chores for her. She has a brother who has some cognitive problems who lives with them, and she has kept him busy after his day shift for the last 16 years helping around the house. Sadly, she seems to be okay that the two of them are isolated and have no outside interests or friends. She also doesn't allow my brother or her own to have any kind of a life outside their house. It's kind of a sad that she finds benefits in their inability to grow up and out and find their own way. Reminds me of Ethan Frome.

[kardonb]

31. sister in law

unfortunately , even today , mental illness in a family is still looked on as shameful. It is an ILNESS , not something to sweep under the rug . It needs to be recognized , and properly treated . Most of all it needs compassion ;and furthermore , accessed to guns MUST be totally curtailed !

[mopinko]

32. did he ever have a head injury?

just my recent, personal, painful experience that shrinks dont know jack that neurologists know. my daughter was having hallucinations, seeing people out of the corner of her eye.

had many, many other signs that someone paying attention SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT.

was dx'd ptsd, those there was no real trauma. meds, shrinks, mom hating, all the good stuff.

guess what. she has serious, bilateral, frontal lobe epilepsy. and narcolepsy.

the poor kid was trying to become herself while her brain was shorting and sputtering.
but hell, her mom is a bitch, so it could have been that.

get a thorough neuro work up, and read up about epilepsy. the rolling on the floor seizures are a small part.

[bettyellen]

35. my brother was caught a bit in the umbilical cord at birth- people speculated that might have hurt

him. But truly- he is one of five who developed this same problem depression + pychosis in just three generations comprised of about 24 people, four of them were men. We apparently have the gene that makes you vulnerable, and at a high rate.
My nephew, I really cannot go into it. And I am literally barred from doing a damned thing, from even seeing him. But I have gone over some details with two friends in special ed, and they are quite alarmed by what I have shared.

[mopinko]

40. funny

my OTHER daughter had that.
i think that we are rapidly discovering the subtlety of some brain damage.
and the thing about what my daughter was told is that it is sort of a 2 part weakness. a weakness for being affected by a blow to the head. kiddo's head injury wasnt that serious. not serious enough to cause the sort of epilepsy that results from scars. mine, on the other hand...


i have wondered about subtle birth injuries and some of these brain dysfunctions.

[bettyellen]

44. I know they speculated about emotional trauma possibly being a trigger...

They thought perhaps his favorite uncle dying when he was 11-12 had "sparked" it.
But no one really knows.

I have a close cousin too who lost her sister in traumatic circumstances when she was 19 and she very rapidly deteriorated and was hallucinating and all in less than a year. She had, however been acting increasingly withdrawn and hostile the year before. That one took the moms by surprise because every family member that had suffered from schizophrenia was male.
She came and stayed with us for almost a year because she was calmer around my mother than her own. That was scary, having another suicidal person on the house just five years later. Poor girl grew up in suburbia and the clinic she was referred to was in a very rough neighborhood. She was very vulnerable and not at all streetwise. They gave her meds once that had the side effect of asking her eyes roll up compulsively. I remember seeing her walk back from the subway like that and it was heart breaking. She has never recovered fully. Her mother eventually became her FT caregiver. Even with meds her hallucinations were bad for many years.

[closeupready]

33. Our culture discourages male friendships, and in that way,

encourages isolation and alienation. This can lead to development of mental illness, but also exacerbate a propensity towards having a mental illness, such as schizophrenia.

I'm not arguing that criminals are all loners, outcasts, mentally ill males, but just sharing a bit of what I know.

It's sad, but I don't see that cultural defect changing. In fact, in my opinion, fraternity is viewed with suspicion and hostility more than ever, at least here in the US. Not sure that I can offer any constructive advice, but I hope everything turns out well for your nephew.

[nikto]

34. It is clearly some kind of emotional/psychologocal disease

Thank you for sharing your personal painful story.

You make others wiser by sharing this agony.


The kid in Isla Vista had a BMW, lived in a big beautiful house in lovely Santa Barbara.
He was not a bad-looking kid at all, either (according to a woman friend of mine who commented on his picture).

The disease runs much deeper.

I support an assault-weapons ban, limits on magazines, and background checks.


But it's not about the guns.
It's about something that happens inside a person.

Why is our society so bad at recognizing this?

How can we do better?

[calimary]

41. "You make others wiser by sharing this agony." Nicely put. And true.

What a great post - in reply to another singularly great and genuinely gripping post.

[bettyellen]

64. "How can we do better?" That is the best question, and a big reason I am grateful for Obamacare.

Thank you!

[nikto]

72. Obamacare will be even better when...

It morphs into Single-Payer.

We The People need to work towards that end.

[NBachers]

36. Thank you for this, bettyellen- finally a sensible and sensitive post about Elliot Rodgers

I glanced at his story yesterday, and found myself reading all the way to the end. It has stayed with me, last night and today.

I've read some of the other posts here on DU, but I couldn't connect with most of them. But yours is the one that resonates.

Some people see similarities with Elliot's story somewhere in their own lives and experience. I am thankful to you for sharing some of your thoughts and experiences.

[glinda]

38. Thank you for posting this.

Sadly these things describe my own bother who has cut his self off from my ill, maybe dying father and I. I have oft wondered if we are dealing with mental illness with him. I know our father has huge issues as well as depression for his whole life.

[bettyellen]

70. you are welcome glinda.

I am sorry to hear about your brother, it is common enough men think they can't cope emotionally even when they are healthy.
it's something we need to teach our children. no easy answers for any of us though.

[IrishAyes]

39. Incredible OP. Thank you.

Wiser heads than mine (not always too hard to find) have suggested that everyone has some degree of mental defect, the only difference being severity. I try to remember that when I get up on my high horse about someone, even if it can only happen after a cooling off period.

One of my dearest friends suffers from depression and schizophrenia. Her mother, now deceased, used to introduce her as her 'evil daughter', although she's done more to earn my respect and affection than most other people in the world. Her illness is severe enough that she sees terrifying images of dangerous animals - snakes curling around someone's head, etc. A tiger prowling the room. But she takes her meds and has worked out a pretty good method of handling the images. If the person on whose head SHE sees a snake, for instance, doesn't seem disturbed by it then she figures it's just her imagination and tries her best to ignore it.

But it must be very trying for her, and I so admire her brave efforts at coping that I tell her now and then of my high regard. Like I said, she's also a very sweet person and really nicer to others than I am.

Thank you again for such an important and illuminating thread.

[bettyellen]

68. Thank you for saying so, and for being such a good friend to yours.

[nomorenomore08]

42. Thank you for sharing this story. I know it must have been painful, at least somewhat, to revisit

these things. Obviously we all want to know how to prevent people from harming others - or themselves - but I don't think there are any easy answers, really. Would earlier and more intensive intervention have stopped Rodger from doing what he did? I honestly have no clue.

[bettyellen]

56. No easy answers. Hopefully by sharing some will understand

How difficult it is. It can be a full time job to watch over someone falling apart. But they grow up, with symptoms often increasing just when they are supposed to be becoming independent. It's difficult to treat without their own cooperation.
We were in a constant state of trying to assess how much of a danger he was to any of us. Being a large family, it wasn't easy to agree about that, especially knowing the consequences.

[nomorenomore08]

69. I guess I know a little about that, having suffered from long-term chronic depression and perhaps

some minor developmental issues (along the lines of Asperger's I guess, though I've never been diagnosed). Also, my best friend from college has been variously diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic and (more recently) schizo-affective - he's had some kind of scary "episodes" but is mostly doing fine now.

The human brain is a complex thing, and so much can go wrong with it.

[barbtries]

45. thank you for sharing your story.

the stigma needs to go away so these people and their loved ones can be helped. if he had a broken bone nobody would hesitate to try and help him, to empathize with his pain. but a broken mind? shame, embarrassment, look the other way.

the thing is our country has a broken mind as evidenced by these almost daily mass murders and the very existence of fox news, limbaugh, palin et al. we are sick, and we need to get better and to do better.

[bettyellen]

66. you're welcome. after all these years, I was more nervous than sad to tell about it...

sometimes DU is a bit cruel, but this thread truly has reminded me how much good there still is around here.

[tavalon]

47. I spent five years being "raised" by a sociopath and a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder

I thank my first eight years with a sane mother for allowing me choices in life that I don't see my step brothers and sister having. They were exposed to that their whole growing up and one is in and out of prison, one is very authoritarian/ right wing and one, well, she won't remeet me (now that we are adults) but I don't blame her. I look like my father, the sociopath, who raped her repeatedly.

I, OTOH, have what I would call borderline light. I've spent enough on therapists to have bought a Mercedes Benz, but it was worth it. I have a career, a child I love, who loves me as best he can (severely autistic) and have had a far less tumultuous life than I might have had. I once thought I was cured of the borderline and certainly, it takes extreme situations to rekindle it, but as I learned when my husband left me for a full blown borderline woman, I can be pushed to that extreme and I behave just like a borderline.

It scared the fuck out of me and 17 months later, I am as committed to no longer engaging in romantic relationships as I was when I left the husband. I feel sorry for him as he is beginning to realize what he's done and what it means, but adulthood confers the requirement that one deal with what one does in life.

The thing is, I don't really think there is that perfect childhood and that it is the petri dish upon which our genetics begins to grow and flourish or fester. So while I think my father and step mother did really bad things, I look back to their own childhoods and see the deprivation and abuse and it just goes on and on and on.

I'm actually glad that my line is ending. My son is my stepson and he won't be having any children and I had a barren womb as they would have said in yesteryear. When I really wanted a baby, I never saw past that to look at my genetics. Now that I'm older (and without choice) I think it's a blessing that my genetics end with me. I think there are many where that should be the way it is. But then, I would never want an outside force making such choices. I'm just glad it didn't work out for me to have children.

[bettyellen]

54. I knew I wouldn't have kids because of the possibility

Of having a mentally ill child was too great.
It was just too common in my family, and I didn't think I could handle it. I'm glad I didn't.
Thank you for sharing your story here. I think there are many like ours that are never told. Quite a few of my friends have no idea.

[tavalon]

74. I wish I had had that kind of forethought

I tried and I tried but undiagnosed Celiac made it impossible. Frankly, I like to think it was one of the mother Goddesses looking out for me. Now that I'm crone, I see very clearly how awful it would have been to perpetuate my genetics. Sure, my kid might have won the lotto but it would have to have been about that lucky.

And I'm incredibly lucky in that I work with babies so I get all the snuggles I want without passing on my genes. I do know from raising my stepson, that I broke the generational thing. I can be stern with him when necessary, but my parenting philosophy is to catch him doing things right. In other words, surprisingly, I figured out from a few scant years of good parenting (and reading tons of books, I'll admit it) how to be a good mom, not a perfect mom, but there isn't such a thing. I've never hit him and rarely yelled and I apologize when I yell. Overall, I think I do okay and we love each other, neither fears the other. I see that as quite the accomplishment. Nonetheless, I don't want to see how genetics would have played out. I'm glad mother nature kept my uterus off the playing field. It was the right thing.

[bettyellen]

75. well my family had the women in charge of this stuff, and I saw how it wrecked my mom

I think my brothers probably never considered it, because they would be allowed to stick their heads in the sand.
I'm happy with y adpoted nieces and nephews, so it is all good.

[tavalon]

77. Same here, except for the neices and nephew thing

I'm down to one now, biologically. And I'm okay with that. Very okay.

[mackerel]

48. I completely relate to your experience. I have a bi-polar sister and a schizophrenic brother.

Really tough growing-up especially with my sister. Once I was old enough to leave, I got the hell out of Dodge. I stayed away for 20 years. Now my sister is much improved as bi-polar is so much better understood now. Unfortunately schizophrenia is still a toughie and my brother doesn't always medicate. He has a son with severe problems too that my mother is raising. We now have better support systems like the Alliance for the Mentally Ill. I read the Elliott Rodgers bio and the main thing that I was aware of was that he had such poor coping skills. Maybe a lot of parents and people don't realize that those problems only intensify as kids like my sister and brother get older. Especially once they are out on their own without a support system near by.

[bettyellen]

57. Yes, there seems to be an inability to cope and small things get blown up

To the biggest tragedies that ever happened. I have seen a lot of that.
I'm so glad you survived and that things have improved for your siblings.
Thanks for sharing here.

[snot]

49. Don't mean to stray of-topic, but here's a question:

Apparently Elliott had spent a lot of time immersed in World of Warcraft. I would not suggest that as a sole cause of his problems, but I wonder if it could have contributed, both by encouraging egotistical preoccupations with personal status and revenge and by sucking up time when he might otherwise have been improving his social skills with peers in real life.

I just wonder, for those of you who have had relatives that remind you at all of Elliott, did those relatives spend much time playing video games?

[bettyellen]

53. My brother was pre-Atari, but he spent a lot of time "off by himself"

Because he had a tendency to not want to do anything social. I believe he read a great deal. My nephew is obsessed with some cartoons and trading cards. He's better playing a video game alone than with anyone else. He spends much of the day alone, ignoring the rest of the family.

[snot]

65. Of course,

being occupied with less-social activities could itself be as much an effect as a cause . . .

[bettyellen]

67. the general avoidance definately seems like an early sign in these cases-

when you couple it with the tantrums to avoid most social activities. I know gamers hate hearing it, but some of that contributes to the culture of violence we have here. Why aren't there great and popular games where no one is killed?

[jeff47]

78. MMOs are social entities.

World of Warcraft and other MMO games are social entities. The games don't really have that much content. Even taking your time, you are "done" with the game in a few months.

What keeps people playing those games for years is the social aspects. Players are chatting. They are working together. They are goofing off together.

They are doing exactly what you are seeking in "improving his social skills with peers in real life". They're just playing a video game together instead of playing baseball together.

[Laelth]

50. Men. Almost always, it's men.

Sigh. Thanks for the post. k&r

-Laelth

[bloom]

55. Women can have the loneliness and isolation

but don't end up trying to get revenge on the world.

I have a daughter who is isolated. Who if someone tries to help will not respond. Who was on meds, but won't take them.

She is also exceedingly intelligent, and all around awesome, in many ways.

When I read about young men who are isolated and end up going on shooting rampages, I am very glad that she is female and not male.
--

When I read about someone like Rodgers, I wish there was a way to shut down hate-web-sites, as I see them as responsible as the perpetrator, himself. Lonely, isolated individuals are too prone to finding connections there. I expect that most (all?) of the people who are part of such a 'group' are lonely, isolated individuals.

But then, from some people's POV, DU could be a hate-web-site (in that many of us hate right-idiocy), and we certainly would not want DU to get shut down.

I think anything advocating violence should be shut down.

I would like to see society be an intolerant of hatred towards women as we are intolerant of hatred toward blacks or Jews, or Irish or Italians, etc.

[Laelth]

59. Our 1st Amendment makes what you propose problematic.

I am not aware of any internet sites that "advocate violence," but that's because I have never gone looking for them. I assume they are out there, but, if they are, our 1st Amendment (a great curse and a great blessing at the same time) would get in the way.

I am sorry to hear about your daughter.



-Laelth

[bloom]

60. At least there is this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/facebook-relents-to-remove-page-glorifying-isla-vista-killer-elliot-rodger-9435875.html

Facebook took down a page (under pressure) that was honoring Rodgers.

I know all about the 1st Amendment. But I also know that there are European counties who do not allow hate speech. After seeing what happened in WWII and all.

I think at the very least, there could be a law where people could not profit from hate speech. I don't think that anyone could justifiably argue for that 'right'. Between that and not being allowed to advocate violence, would be some improvement to the culture.

--

thanks for the virtual hug.

[Laelth]

61. I am torn on this.

I understand that no nation on Earth protects speech the way the United States does. I am proud of that, in a way, but it causes problems too.

And you're quite welcome (re. the hug). Any time.

-Laelth

[cascadiance]

51. For all the other Elliot's out there, I hope they become more like this Elliot...

... in dealing with weird life circumstances as a model than the Elliot we are talking about today. For those kids named Elliot out there today, think of this Elliot instead!



Now ultimately it is about dealing with real life, but everyone is different, even if you share the name with someone that provides a horrible image. Probably why not too many kids are named Adolf today.

I say this with sadness too, as I see that one of the victims went to high school almost next door to where my sister lives now

[janlyn]

52. Thank you!!

It takes a lot of courage to tell your story, because unfortunately there is still a lot of stigma attached to families who have people with mental illness. I like you have mental illness in my family. A brother with schizophrenia and a nephew who had a mother in complete denial of his issues. Unfortunately, because of her denial he hurt a child. He is locked up now and has been labeled a sociopath.
I have had people judge our family unfairly for his behavior. My Father and Step mother were hounded by the press for weeks. People who have never been in our shoes don't know how hard it is to get someone help if a parent is denying that there is a problem.
I see first hand the blame put on a family when something like this happens. My heart goes out to the parents of the young man that commited the recent murders.

[bettyellen]

63. I am sorry to hear that, and thank you for sharing.

I felt a bit nervous and didn't have a reason to post except to share my story. But, I am glad I did, and that you got that off your chest too. We're far from alone in this.

[annabanana]

58. This thread has touched so many people.

I think many, many of us know people either in our not in our families who are dealing with great ranges of behavioral and emotional challenges. And I think is may be more common than in was in years past.

Like the spike in allergies, I feel there may be an environmental factor.

[bettyellen]

62. I have been really touched by every single reply here too. I don't want to be a jerk and reply to

everyone here... but the stories they have shared really knocked me off my feet.
I hope it helps ease the isolation or stigma a bit, because I know the topic can be difficult to broach with friends out there. It;s a downer, and you can feel guity about it. Haven't disussed this is real life in quite a while.

[nirvana555]

71. Thank you so much for posting this, bettyellen. There is also a very close member

Of my family who has a mental illness and it's got to be one of the most horrible situations we've death with. The fear that something might happen is ALWAYS somewhere in my mind. We have done everything. When I read that the shooter's parents were frantically driving from L.A. To Santa Barbara, I just broke down crying. I told my sister and some friends I wish I could reach out to them. Believe me, I know. The person I'm speaking of in my family was in therapy since he was 8 years old too. I just don't know what else to say except obviously my heart goes out to you regarding your brother and your nephew...

[bettyellen]

73. I think a lot of people don't realize the many years of constant stress

and how many people are burdened with trying to manage their lives or care giving that can be needed when you have a mentally ill person suffering in your family. It's disruptive and painful, but it is hard to talk about too. It feels disloyal to complain.

[Sissyk]

76. i am so very sorry for all you have been through.

Thank you for having the courage to tell us about your family. I'd say there are many of us here that can relate to your experience, either family or close friends. If this makes one person see something in a loved one that makes them stop and think, and start seeking help; your job is done.

I hope and pray your nephew will eventually get the help he needs, and that you will be welcomed back into the family.