General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time to accept the reality of guns in our society.
More and more people will continue to die in these types of incidents. Some sick mother f*#%er will shoot a bunch of innocent people for no obvious reason.
The reality is that people kill people. The reality is that guns kill people. The reality is that people with guns kill people. All three previous sentences are the reality - not just one of them.
It is time for all sides to understand that there must be limits to what you can do with your guns. Most people do not want to go out to eat and be interrupted by some asshole walking in, that they don't know from Adam, with an automatic weapon or some type of long-range rifle. That is crossing the fucking line. The paranoia of some gun owners is scary as hell.
The argument that "they" will protect themselves and other occupants, if there is an incident like at Luby's in Texas, is nothing but bullshit. The "average" gun-owner, in many folks' eyes, are dangerous with their paranoia and political beliefs. Still, most folks are more tolerant of the 2nd Amendment rights than they are of the other rights in the Bill of Rights, for example, the First, the Fourth, and the Fifth. Unfortunately, much of this "toleration" comes out of fear. Average people are fearful of strangers with guns around their families. If not jack-booted thugs, they are doing the work of jack-booted thugs. A citizenry that lives in fear is vulnerable to losing all their rights.
Some of these gun-owners, hopefully not the majority, must understand that they are doing the work of the powerful government that they profess to hate. It is much easier to get the NRA involved in political protest than the National Guard or the US military. It is my opinion that they are being used by this same government to keep a certain amount of fear amongst the people, as well as control the political agenda. Just my opinion.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)"automatic weapons" been taken to a restaurant?
The reality is that guns kill people.
How without a person pulling the trigger? must be some new type of self seeking gun killing machine.
The "average" gun-owner, in many folks' eyes, are dangerous with their paranoia and political beliefs.
"Many folks eyes", sucks for us millions of average gun owners that never do that and and the great many that are Democrats.
hlthe2b
(102,279 posts)and terrorizing parents expecting a peaceful meal out with family, fail to call out the NRA and its companion organizations on their extremism, I can only conclude the "responsible" gun owner scenario is more myth than truth.
However, I actually DO know some, who meet that metric--they are responsible hunters and have LONG ago abandoned the NRA as the terrorist organization it has become.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)What these open carry people are doing
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)and all as far as know on DU
kentuck
(111,097 posts)And why are they so fucking silent?
bossy22
(3,547 posts)It's all over many of the gun blogs and forums. Most of the comments refer to these guys being morons and jackasses
kentuck
(111,097 posts)...with their political leaders?? They seem to be ignored. Why is that?
bossy22
(3,547 posts)They don't necessarily want laws combat this, they just want gun owners to use their heads and show some restraint
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)they have been talked to by the majority
3) Carry the long gun on a sling, not held.
4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all.
I do not agree with open carry
bossy22
(3,547 posts)They need to understand that not everyone is comfortable around guns. They don't want them shoved in their face.
If you want to carry a gun, go get a permit and conceal it. Polls have consistently shown that people Luke warm go the idea of people carrying guns, but are consitantly against the visible carrying of guns.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)Leave your fucking gun at home, loser.
Damn I despise these open carry freaks. OBAMA ISN'T COMING FOR YOUR GUNS! If he was, the US military and law enforcement agencies have tanks, drones, stun grenades, and military tactics....
Jeesus, go to a psychiatrist and learn how to deal with your gross inadequacies. What reason does any sane, reasonable intelligent person have to carry a firearm shopping? Walking downtown? WTF?
I own firearms, I used to target shoot. I used to hunt ages ago. I do not conceal carry or open carry. I AM NOT THAT CHICKEN SHIT. I have faith in my ability to identify danger and get out of that danger. I have done so.
If some sick loser decides he is going to walk up behind me in the store or on the street and blow the back of my head off, it doesn't matter how many .40 cal handguns I have on my person, I'm dead... Jesus people, this is life, not a computer game or a Movie.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pro-2A folks have said here doesn't fit The Narrative? That we are criminals-in-waiting? That we are RWers doing the bidness of the NRA? I've long ago accepted the fact that the chief -- if not only -- weapon used by many controller/banners is casting shame, smear and stigmatization. Those VERY WORDS. I accept that intellectually corrupt dichotemy as a reality, but that doesn't mean I and others won't lash back.
I also accept that the antis' approach is next to blind hatred at times; but as foul as this is, I am sure the approach is doomed to Complete Failure, as most DUers do not confuse animosity with compassion, esp. when the two are forced to walk hand-in-hand. I think the antis know this as well, but animosity and prohibition are bad habits learned well, and in DU, have become increasingly legitimized. Know this: We are not going away.
Know this as well: I and other pro-2A folks are ready to seriously discuss (as much as one can on the innertubes) the problems associated with violence, and to do so in a serious, civilized manner.
hlthe2b
(102,279 posts)except to excoriate those who favor even a modicum of personal self-restraint vis-a-vis guns.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)Where gun owners were "chewing them out"
Fyi, you met one of those gun owners who thinks these guys are idiots. Hello
hlthe2b
(102,279 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)than responsible free speech supporters had on the Westboro Baptist Church.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Stop that farce. Your gun kills just as easily as a repub gun owners does.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)and I will own them. I do not see any laws changing to soon. So I will maintain and use my weapons in a safe legal way. I may even buy another eventually. I would like to get 1903 Springfield bolt action but they are costly now.
I will also continue to vote Democratic in this deep red state I reside in. It always amazes me how worked up some on your side of the discussion get when people have a different viewpoint on one issue.
And what farce would you be talking about? Was any of my information wrong or you just like to post insults?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)See we don't like gun violence. We will continue to get worked up.
What is amazing is this one issue has this country and you all fucked up priority wise.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)are just fine by me. pass laws that will help and not decide while doing nothing about the problem. As long as weapons are legal and we have the 2nd amendment you will not get the bans and confiscation you want.
I try and have polite discussions but your side not so much, do you condone the name calling?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)You try so painfully hard to cast gun-owners (over 80,000,000) into the same boat, and compound your error by ignoring any worth in ones political beliefs or party affiliation. That is so extreme.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You are a gun owner and some repubs are gun owners. There is nothing different there.
You try very hard to act like you're some saint. Well your a person with a gun fettish that isn't grounds for sainthood.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)and individual weapon ownership is part of the democratic platform and President Obama supports it.
I drive a car and republicans drive cars, so
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)to give up your guns and help combat gun violence,
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I support legislators and laws that will actually help, not feel good measures that do nothing.
We will always disagree on this. Have a great day.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)which has multiple causes, and ask yourself: Which party and its members are best suited in terms of belief, ideology, and policy position to deal with All of the causes? Hint: One party favors only prisons. Your "fettish" outlook blinds you to the most fundamental differences between the parties; ironically, its "gunz, gunz, gunz" using your approach.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)KT2000
(20,577 posts)we are adapting.
A neighbor had gone off and was driving up and down our one block street as fast as he could - accelerate/brake - accelerate/screeching brakes, on and on. It sounded out of control like he might drive into someone's house. A neighbor (Gulf War vet) went out to find out what was going on but he first asked the guy's wife if he had a gun.
Couple days later a neighbor's two dogs got out. I had to tell the neighbor that if the dogs went into a particular neighbor's yard, they would be shot.
We are all adapting to our gun society. It does not matter what the law says, guns will be used and the right or wrong of it will happen after the damage has been done.
dickthegrouch
(3,174 posts)Using a gun to kill is ALWAYS wrong.
We have built justifications around some circumstances, but the bottom line is "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" (this from a religion hater )
bossy22
(3,547 posts)But sometimes in an unintended consequence of doing something "right". In other words it's not "shooting to kill" it's "shooting to stop the threat" when it comes to self defense. It just so happens that many times in these cases the assailent dies
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)And he starts shooting the kids, it's wrong to shoot and kill that man? Are you serious right now?
dickthegrouch
(3,174 posts)Yes I agree it's necessary to disarm him ASAP, but there are multiple non-lethal ways to do that.
However, I'm sick of proposing new rules only to be shot down by gun lovers who refuse to tell us what they would accept.
The rules will change and if they don't change soon the eventual change will be a lot less palatable to the gun lovers than they can believe possible.
Some of the gun lovers here need to suggest their own remedies, or they'd better believe those of us sick and tired of living in fear WILL come for their guns.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Because hey, it's what the Founders envisioned.
If we're taking cues from a bunch of rich white men from the 18th century who owned slaves, might as well go all the way.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)have uniforms!
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Next time they come around, just belch loudly or pick your nose exuberantly.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)If you don't want your beloved child to be shot in the back as they enter a deli, better move away from the U.S. and the NRA and the 2nd amendment.
Now.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)The UK and Australia weren't always 'civilized" ... they learned, grew and changed. change is possible
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)When A Republican is actually doing gun grabs they're too involved in football to care.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and their reaction is... which one?
It's also really bad when you see there's been a mass shooting and you kinda don't give a shit. It's become that normal.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)there are still way too many out there who are totally irresponsible. Or willfully murderous.
I keep on asking why it is that other countries that restrict guns have so many fewer gun deaths, and usually I get back the happy assurance that gun deaths are going down in this country. How fantastic. Let me know when it gets to the sort of level we see in actual first world countries.
llmart
(15,540 posts)Remember the guy texting at a sporting event? Something as minor as that can set somebody off. Throw a gun in the mix and it's lethal. We keep thinking that people with anger issues and/or lack of self-control can somehow be identified as possibly dangerous and they can't.
Bottom line is we need stricter gun control laws/background checks/databases etc. We also need to amend the 2nd amendment so that it is relevant to our society today and, as the professors in law schools say, "use plain English" so that the ambiguity is gone.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)snap is in some ways at the heart of our gun problem. When someone does snap, it's a whole lot better if there isn't a gun handy. Yes, there will be those who grab a knife or get in a car and mow down dozens of people, but those examples are sufficiently rare, that if there weren't such a ready access to guns a lot fewer people would be killed.
I also think that there isn't really enough attention paid to those who are maimed or crippled from the use of a gun. Given that not everyone shot dies, but many are left with life-long consequences, I think those cases should be brought front and center a little more often.
We've been so desensitized to these shootings that we forget that instant death isn't always the worst thing that can happen to someone.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)for the legalization of silencers. That way people can get shot quietly and not disturb the rest of us.
smallcat88
(426 posts)They're just too stupid to know it. That's the problem. How do you fix stupid?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Castrate it's guns.
smallcat88
(426 posts)But easier said than done.
Corruption Inc
(1,568 posts)and a corrupt press that pretends like it's some debatable topic. Just who's going to enforce gun laws in an almost completely corrupt country with a 2-tier justice system and police departments full of sociopaths?
It's time to accept the real reality, we are corrupt to the core and nothing changes until we start holding the highest in office accountable, whether that office be in politics, banks or the military.
kentuck
(111,097 posts)you are getting over into uncharted waters and territory.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)While open-carry is appropriate in some situations (hunting, hiking, or in rural work environments) it becomes inappropriate and inflammatory outside of those environments.
This is why concealed-carry permits should be issued to those that wish to carry guns.
While much of the paranoia of the gun-owning right is hysterical bullshit (armed revolution? Really?) it does not change the fact that their worries about some sort of gun-culture war being waged on them are not entirely unfounded. You say so yourself that "in many folks' eyes, are dangerous with their paranoia and political beliefs." So you find their political beliefs dangerous and seek to disarm them... which winds up completely justifying them.
Look at the OPs and replies on DU about this... guns are a sickness, a disease, yet at the same time they mock people for saying things like "Democrats are coming for our guns".
Anti-gun/pro-gun-control DUers can be depended upon to bemoan the widespread availability of guns, the high rate of guns per-capita, and the high rate of gun ownership. So how can this be addressed (changed) except by, in one way or another, lowering the gun-ownership-per-capita and the guns-per-capita rates?
The gun ownership rate is about 30 to 35%; it's been decreasing slowly for a few decades as demographics change. I feel that at some point in my lifetime, without any changes in laws, the gun-ownership rate would fall to about 20 to 25% and stay there. This would be the "natural" demand for guns. So how do you propose to change this, to move it even lower?
The other issue is that the most popularly-supported gun-control proposals, such as assault-weapon bans and magazine limits, are ineffective measures. They are designed to achieve political goals; they cannot change the numbers on the ground. 99% of homicide incidents have either one or two victims; limiting magazine capacities will not have a noticeable impact. Neither will banning "assault weapons", as all rifles account for only a about 5% of homicides, and people will simply by "almost-assault-weapon" rifles after a ban. And the same features and accessories that are now common on "assault weapons" will show up on non-assault-weapon tactical rifles, such as pump-action or lever-action guns. Pistol grips, bayonet lugs, matte-black finishes, red-dot scopes, detachable magazines, attachment points for flashlights and lasers, flash reducers, barrel shrouds, quick-adjustable buttstocks, folding buttstocks, and front-end pistol grips will be features of tactical pump-action and lever-action rifles.
Those measures, however, will, motivate and politicize gun-owners, who will vote Republican, and then life-destroying conservative policies will be the law of the land. There is a ton of stuff that we should be doing that will not only lower the crime rate (including, of course, gun crimes) but will increase the standards of living of the entire population.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)senseless carnage no longer surprises us - it is now part of the American way of life
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)are there any on DU?
just a yes or no, do not name usernames.