General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere Were 30 Murders by Firearm in England in 2012 Vs. 8,855 in U.S.
Juan Cole
Op-Ed
The mentally imbalanced individual who hunted down UC Santa Barbara students and knifed three and shot 6 of them to death, wounding with gunfire 7 more, on Saturday, used a semi-automatic handgun. The most popular such weapon is a Glock. It is not an automatic weapon, meaning you have to squeeze the trigger each time to fire. But it is much easier to get off many shots one after another than in the case of a traditional pistol. The magazine for the Glock 17 has 17 rounds; one can get a high capacity magazine of 33 rounds. High capacity magazines and some semi-automatic weapons were banned in the Clinton era. But the gun manufacturers have bought Congress, so that that ban could no longer be implemented. Let us not pretend that this is about hunters and hunting, folks. Anyone who shoots deer with a Glock should be denied sex the rest of their lives the way the Santa Barbara shooter complained he was. Having a hand gun in the house also does not make anyone safer; family members shoot each other with them or commit suicide with them when temporarily depressed; and burglars wrestle them away and shoot the owners with their own weapon, or the owners end up being charged with murder for shooting an unarmed burglar. Plus people are not well. I figure at least 20 percent of the US population has mood disorders or other mental problems such that you really wouldnt want to see a gun in their hands. Nor is it about the actual, historical, 2nd Amendment. Our current legislative program in the US is a semi-automatic high capacity weapon in the hands of every mentally unstable person. But since Congress is also determined to pump 50 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere in the next decade, which will pretty much sink us, the mania about everyone having guns is not the most dangerous hysteria currently gripping our country.
The United States continues to be peculiar in handing out powerful magazine-fed firearms to almost anyone who wants one and not requiring background checks on private purchases even if these are made at gun shows. 80% of civilian-owned firearms world-wide are in the US, and only Yemen vaguely competes with us for rates of firearm ownership; Yemen is a violent mess with Shiite insurgencies, al-Qaeda taking over cities from time to time, tribal feuding, southern separatism and US drone strikes. And even it has fewer guns per person than the USA.
It has gotten to the point where the increasing epidemic of mass shootings now threatens the US military, the most powerful military in the world.
The US is downright weird compared to civilized Western Europe or Australia(which enacted gun control after a mass shooting in 1996 and there have been no further such incidents).
Juan Cole
http://www.nationofchange.org/there-were-30-murders-firearm-england-2012-vs-8855-us-1401207305
devils chaplain
(602 posts)Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)I think there's two major differences that account for things. Firstly, the NHS means that mental healthcare is free. It's sometimes difficult to access (I'm mentally ill) and often disorganised (blame teh fucking Tories for that) but if you or your carer can navigate it, you get help without it costing a penny.
Secondly, handguns are banned here and were fairly rare even before the ban.
goldent
(1,582 posts)Without it, I think we'd see much stronger gun control in many areas of the country.
I won't go into why we have the 2nd amendment
devils chaplain
(602 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Which will happen here if we aren't protected by the kind of people protecting Bundy.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)... the number of firearms murders is not the only measure of a nation. It may not be the most important one, either. You rather live in England than in the US? I wouldn't.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)My mother was born there. I've visited a number times. Beautiful country.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Justice
(7,188 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)I've only owned one gun in my 66 years although I cherished them as a kid. Off to war and my love of the gun was lost to never be again.
We were a poor family as a kid growing up and used a gun to help put food on the table so I seen one as a means to an end. Today not so much
I would be perfectly happy if there were no guns except those kept in Armory's
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's no contest at all. Unlike the US, the UK has universal healthcare, gun control laws, and seems to be on a par with how things are here in Australia...
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #2)
Name removed Message auto-removed
msongs
(67,420 posts)geomon666
(7,512 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)And they still argue that I don't know the difference between some gun or other! And the knife thingy. And shit about the Founders. And whining about their lifestyle and their "need" to protect themselves (answer: their homes sound like fortresses). And the "criminals can always get guns."
Thanks for posting that. When are these guys gonna realize how ridiculous they look?
geomon666
(7,512 posts)Maybe the more people that see these talking points, the more they'll realize how full of crap they are.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I don't hate all RKBA folks here, but I have to wonder what it is that drives them to perpetuate these arguments. Time after time they have been rebutted, disproven, taken apart and zombie like, they rise from the dead...I just have to believe that this is part fantasy, part ideology. Most seem normal but occasionally one runs across people who really have that bunker mentality, and that is kind of sad in a way...
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Why are they suddenly a problem? Maybe the root cause of the problem is not the guns.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)There are a lot more of us here than in the UK.
Though in general I agree with the idea that the murder rate is significantly high.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)A quick google tells me that the per-100,000 murder rate is 1.2 in the UK and 4.8 in the USA. In other words, your murder rate is four times ours.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I know they have intruder drills in schools now, too. When I was growing up, we had only fire drills and the silly civil defense drills.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)It's a good indication of how bans work. Page 11 is the clearest illustration.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2Fsn01940.pdf&ei=2umFU-vEOcOFqgamhYKYBw&usg=AFQjCNGH6atVDylpEjVwNHfABXpLQLKybg
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So let me do the math here: 30x6= um,
uh
wait
HERE: 21,049,583
The UK has a much higher firearm murder rate! Plus they are all the same sort of people (wink wink nudge nudge) so you can't compare.
indepat
(20,899 posts)life itself.