Wanna start a Nader thread?

[jeff47]

Then you're an idiot.

Republicans on the SCOTUS just gutted women's rights. They just gutted public sector unions. Republicans in Congress are working overtime to fuck over the entire country. And there's an election 4 months away.

And you want to fight other Democrats over who was sufficiently pure in 2000.

[pinboy3niner]

1. Wrong forum. Please re-post in the Ralph Nader Group.

Thankyou.

[BootinUp]

10. Every day in this forum there is trashing of Democrats

the same kind of crap that lead to Nader's sabotage in 2000. This is definitely the correct forum.

[pinboy3niner]

52. It was a joke

The notion of DU having a "Ralph Nader Group" struck me as funny. (DU doesn't have such a group, btw.)

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Exactly.

Fuck Nader.

[leftstreet]

3. GOPers on the SCOTUS confirmed by Democrats?

LOL talk about purity problems

[jeff47]

12. And the DEMs on the SCOTUS confirmed by Republicans?

Or would you rather this have been a 5-2 ruling?

[BootinUp]

4. I haven't started one Nader thread today

I started them all. And no you cannot talk sense into me.

[MohRokTah]

5. Withoutnader, Alito and Roberts would have NEVER been on the court.

Ergo, the entire premise of you OP fails the test of logic.

[jeff47]

13. No, it's fine on logic. Because it's saying this is a really stupid fight

to have right now.

Today should be a galvanizing day where we come together to crush the Republicans in November.

Instead, we're doing our best to fracture into cliques, thus allowing the Republicans to go even further.

If you want another Alito and Roberts on the court, keep fighting about Nader.

[MohRokTah]

15. No, it's PRECISELY the fight to have now.

Idiots who vote for Greens need to understand the consequences of their stupidity.

[jeff47]

16. Because screaming at women makes them stop having abortions.

And screaming at religious people makes them stop pushing misogyny.
And screaming at Republicans turns them into Democrats.
And screaming at Nader supporters makes them vote Democratic.

The enemy is over there. Stop trying to turn allies into enemies. Unless you want more of what we got today.

[MohRokTah]

17. Nader supporters are every bit as much my political enemies as those who vote for Bush.

In some cases, moreso.

[jeff47]

23. Because you want another Roberts and Alito on the SCOTUS.

Excellent plan! I'm sure when things get really, really, really bad those Nader people....will continue to ignore your screaming.

Stop fighting a 14-year-old purity war. We have battles to fight today, and we need everyone we can get.

[MohRokTah]

27. No, because the NAder fucks are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for Roberts and Alito

and you are evidence they have not repented of their idiocy.

[jeff47]

29. And how does screaming at them reverse our course?

It doesn't. Screaming at them means more anti-women rulings. Screaming at them means more anti-women laws from Republicans in Congress. Screaming at them means we lose more ground rehashing a fight that can not be won by either side.

How 'bout we postpone that fight until we've stopped the country's slide into third-world police state?

[JI7]

18. it's calling out BS against those with an agenda

[jeff47]

20. And then losing elections over insufficient purity.

Thus getting more shit like today.

And letting those with an agenda (the people actually bankrolling Nader) win.

[JI7]

22. the ones i'm talking about don't care for civil rights issues

these are not liberals. they don't want democrats to win.

[jeff47]

25. And since you use an utterly imprecise metric, you pick up lots who do care. (nt)

[progressoid]

32. Without 308,000 FL "Democrats" voting for Bush, Alito & Roberts would have NEVER been on the court.

Without Jeb and Katherine illegally purging 87000 voters, Alito and Roberts would have NEVER been on the court.

Without butterfly ballots, Alito and Roberts would have NEVER been on the court.

But it's a lot easier to bash Nader.

[jeff47]

36. Dixiecrats existed in 2000.

There's far fewer of them now. Nader peeled off lots of Democratic voters, making him a large factor in Gore's loss. There were other large factors too.

But unless you've got a time machine in your pocket, this is a stupid battle to have right now.

How bout we fight that battle after we've stopped our country's slide into theocratic hellhole?

[MohRokTah]

42. Nader was all it took

to allow the theft to take place.

I will despise NAder above all others for this abomionation for the rest of my life.

Nader shoud have known better, not to mention Nader voters should have known better.

Nader and his supporters will ALWAYS bear the most responsibility.

They are more my political enemies than anybody on the right.

[progressoid]

45. Like I said, it's a lot easier to bash Nader.

"Nader and his supporters will ALWAYS bear the most responsibility"?

Not the Democrats that actually voted for Bush?

Yeah, that makes sense.

[MohRokTah]

46. No, not them.

Democrats accept some conservatives into the tent.

Nader supporters claim progressivism, yet they voted against it.

They bear far more responsibility.

[progressoid]

47. Wow.

That's some interesting, um, logic.

[joshcryer]

6. People who say there is no difference are idiots.

[JI7]

7. but didn't Lindsey Graham vote to confirm Sotomayor ? so it shows that Republicans are not that bad

according to some fools.

[JI7]

8. Nader said it was a "scare tactic"

<Nader said he did not think there would be much difference between the justices Gore would choose and those Bush would appoint. After all, Democrats had helped confirm Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, hadn’t they? Besides, “You can’t really predict how Supreme Court justices will behave.” And he called the possibility that a court packed with Republican appointees could overturn Roe v. Wade a “scare tactic.” Nader said that even if Roe v. Wade was overturned, the issue “would just revert to the states.“ Just?

”Here’s what happened on that,“ he said wearily. ”The scare tactic is that would end choice in America and I just said that’s not true, but I should have been astute enough not to mention that.“ He said he did not in any case believe for a moment that Bush would seek to overturn Roe v. Wade. ”The first back alley death, and the Republican Party is in deep trouble and they know it,“ he said. He described the party’s opposition to abortion as just for show, ”just for Pat Robertson.“ >

[JI7]

11. HAHAHHAHAH

<You call DUers 'idiots,' then have to kick your own threads

correlation? Hmmm >

yes, the OP was right about certain ones being idiots

[JI7]

14. btw, the issue wasn't Nader running or voting for NAder or any of that shit, it was the FUCKING LIES

fucking dumbfucks going around claiming there was no fucking difference. and YES that is what the dumbfucks mostly did.

and they fucking joined in the attacks on Gore for what he wore and even attacked him for the debate and going up to bush and other shit.

i remember all that shit. it was the first Presidential Election i voted in.

[jeff47]

19. And now is the worst time to rehash that fight.

You will never convince Nader's fans that Nader had a role.

You can either choose to have a purity battle, lose elections, and get more of today's shit.

Or you can stop having a stupid purity battle and work with Nader's fans to reverse today's shit.

[JI7]

21. i have no purity battle, many of them are the same ones spewing stupid shit

in later elections when i come across these types i tell them to just not vote democrat if they actually feel this way.

they get so fucking angry and filled with rage over my not begging them.

fucking stupid ass attention whores with wannabe martyr complex.

[jeff47]

24. That post is a perfect demonstration of a purity battle.

And a perfect demonstration of why we are in our current situation.

If you want to continue down the road the Republicans have put us on, keep screaming at Nader supporters. When things turn really, really, really, really bad, they'll continue to ignore your screaming. But you'll get to feel all sorts of righteous anger as you starve in the streets.

[MohRokTah]

43. NAder supporters are the purity whores

Fuck em all.

They are worse than the wingnuts.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. You speak as if there's some hope of finding common ground with Nader voters.

[Jim Lane]

50. The kernel of truth in your argument is that most Naderites have ALREADY repented.

You write, "You will never convince Nader's fans that Nader had a role." Well, if by "fans" you mean the people who voted for him in 2000, most of them were already convinced. More than 80% of them, from his Vice-Presidential running mate on down, learned their lesson from what happened in 2000 and abandoned him in 2004. From that point of view we don't need to keep arguing with them (whether or not you choose to call it "screaming" when people on a political message board express opinions on political subjects).

The argument rages on in part because Nader himself has never, AFAIK, expressed one iota of regret for his role. Per the excerpt J17 posted in #8, it seems his only regret is that he didn't do a better tactical job of presenting his argument that there was no significant difference between Bush and Gore.

These disagreements are not purely historical, as you imply. There've been intimations of the same thing in 2016. The prospect of Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee has led some DUers to make disparaging remarks similar to those Nader made about Gore, and even to aver their intention to vote third party if she's the nominee. I'm someone who fervently hopes that Clinton is not our nominee, but if she wins the nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for her. One reason is what I mentioned above -- learning the lesson from what happened in 2000.

Even Glenn Beck, of all people, has shown himself capable of admitting a mistake, saying that liberals were right about the Iraq War. Is it too much to ask that Ralph Nader show at least as much intellectual integrity as Glenn friggin' Beck?

[Cha]

28. Thank you, JI7.. I just had a similar post downthread.

[Cha]

26. Fuck Nader and you just started a Nader thread.. you callin' yourself "an idiot"? There's enough

blame to go around but fucking "no difference between bush and Gore" Nader has a big share.

[jeff47]

30. Yep, I am.

I'm an idiot for trying to win in November. Instead of either losing or losing in 2000. Boy, it will sure be satisfying to lose 14 years ago instead of losing 14 years ago.

We can have this fight after we've stopped our country's slide into third-world theocratic hellhole.

[Cha]

31. Guess what? We're Dems.. we can Multitask. This needs to be talked about.. it won't last long.

[jeff47]

34. Doesn't matter that it won't last long. It's turned what should

be a galvanizing and unifying day into a internal battle shattering the party.

[Cha]

39. Oh, boo hoo.. Nader's an Idiot.

[MohRokTah]

44. Only because NAderites are fucking morons. eom

[BootinUp]

33. While I can see the reasons for your thread are valid

today is just not the day for it imho.

I believe a review of history before we move on can be helpful.

[jeff47]

35. Your review of history turns what should be a galvanizing and unfiying day

into an internal battle. You are throwing away a massive amount of momentum and goodwill over something we can't change. Thus helping to ensure we lose on issues we can change.

[BootinUp]

37. Every day the more moderate (STRIKE THAT) pragmatic of us take shot after shot around here

It was definitely time for a little return fire. But opinions vary.

[jeff47]

38. And striking back guaranteed you will take more shots in the future

when the idealists aren't satisfied at the pace of change 2 years from now. Caused by losing 4 months from now over who was sufficiently pure 14 years ago.

[Cha]

40. Agreed, BootinUp. Exactly right.

[SidDithers]

41. There sure are an awful lot of "It wasn't Nader's fault" threads being posted tonight...

Guess the truth hurts, eh?

Sid

[longship]

48. Do you mean -- Just like you did?

Enough said?

Sheesh!

[Rex]

51. Yeah that is a touchy subject for the usual suspects.

They seem to like to forget all about the SCOTUS in 2000...wouldn't trust a one of them, they seem to all be corporate sellouts.