Whiteness Is Still a Proxy for Being American

[xchrom]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/a-florida-representatives-indian-american-gaffe-is-revealing/375121/

?n9dt7w

Anyone can make a fool of himself. So it’s tempting to dismiss last Thursday’s mega-gaffe by Florida Representative Curt Clawson as indicative of nothing more than the fallibility of the human brain.

But think about the nature of Clawson’s goof. Sitting across a congressional hearing room from Nisha Biswal, an official at the State Department, and Arun Kumar, who works at the Department of Commerce, Clawson addressed the two Indian-Americans as if they were representatives of the government of India. Which is to say: He had trouble recognizing that two Americans who trace their ancestry to the developing world are really American.

In today’s Republican Party, and beyond, a lot of people are having the same trouble. How else to explain the fact that, according to a 2011 New York Times/CBS poll, 45 percent of Republicans think President Obama was born outside the United States? Is it because they’re well versed in the details of which kind of birth certificate he released and when? Of course not. It’s because they see someone with his color skin and his kind of name and think: Doesn’t seem American to me.

In fact, Obama’s opponents, including Democrats, have been raising questions about his Americanness since he began seeking the presidency. In a March 2007 memo, Mark Penn, Hillary Clinton’s chief campaign strategist, argued that she should attack Obama for “not [being] at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and his values.” Had Obama been white and named Joe Smith, Penn’s line of attack would have been inconceivable, since Obama’s thinking and values were typical of a liberal Democrat’s, and similar to Clinton’s own. Penn’s effort to question Obama’s Americanness was entirely a function of the fact that he traced his ancestry to the third world and had spent some of his childhood abroad.

[IronLionZion]

1. A few DUers have the same trouble

assuming Indian-Americans must be here on visas to steal jobs from the more deserving, and we must have spent a lot of time practicing our American accent.

I'm still amazed that America has two Indian-American governors in the deep south.

[merrily]

2. Headline is way overbroad and I don't think much of the article.

It depends on who you are, who your parents are/were and where you've lived.

Speaking for myself, I have lived in an urban part of NJ, in Manhattan and in Boston. And I have never thought being white was a proxy for being American. I doubt those with Africans or members of First Nations in their genetic heritage, whose families were here before many or all white families, think being white is a proxy for being American. Ditto the descendants of people who were brought from China to help build this country.

By the same token, many descendants of whites who came to the US relatively late, such as the Irish and Italians, have heard stories that tell them it was not only being white that made some "real" Americans and some not so "American."

Oh, yes, and our President for the past five years is not white and neither are many of people from the lovely state in which he was born.

Also, I read the news from time to time. And I used to hear regularly from people like xenophobe Buchanan, before MSNBC had no choice but to fire him. (Since, shamefully, IMO, he is still on PBS's McLaughlin Group, I still hear from the bigoted blowhard sometimes.)

So, I've known that whites USians have long been on their way to being a minority in the US.

Grant you, you might not know that if you are a certain type of white USian, but to take this idiot's gaffe and attribute it to Americans in general is not exactly spot on.

I call bs on this:

How else to explain the fact that, according to a 2011 New York Times/CBS poll, 45 percent of Republicans think President Obama was born outside the United States? Is it because they’re well versed in the details of which kind of birth certificate he released and when? Of course not. It’s because they see someone with his color skin and his kind of name and think: Doesn’t seem American to me.

How else to explain it? How about that the GOP and Republican politicians and tools like those who work for Murdoch-owned enterprises and people like Trump sold that idea in media over and over and over and over--and still do? So, if you are a loyal wingnut, you either believe he was born in Kenya or Indonesia, or say you do, even if you don't. (And I would be surprised if even every single winger who says Obama is not American really believes that.)

I also call bs on this:

In fact, Obama’s opponents, including Democrats, have been raising questions about his Americanness since he began seeking the presidency. In a March 2007 memo, Mark Penn, Hillary Clinton’s chief campaign strategist, argued that she should attack Obama for “not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and his values.”

Attributing what Hillary and her campaign team did in the 2008 primary to all Democrats who oppose Obama is bs. I know many Democrats who oppose Obama. I don't know a single Democrat, including Hillary, who actually questions that Obama was not born in the US.

To the contrary, all Democrats I know who do not have selective amnesia think that the "racially-tinged" parts of Hillary's campaign were shameful, from Hillary to Bubba to Ferrara to Cuomo, all of whom engaged in it, to the "strategists" who suggested it.

[heaven05]

4. article is correct

without flaw. Too many see the brown skin first, including here, as a detriment to him being able to execute the duties of POTUS. No ifs, and or buts about it. No equivocation. White skin is still seen as the gold standard in this country. This culture is racist and bigoted and that racism and bigotry is practiced, BY MANY, from the top to the bottom in this society by democrats, independents, republicans, libertarians and tea party members.

[merrily]

5. You think African Americans, First Nations, Asian Americans, etc.,

think American = white skin?

I disagree.

The article is not about only Obama. Its statements, anyway, are broader than that, but do you think Democrats who disagree with Obama are birthers?

I disagree.

Saying Obama is not American is a very different issue from whether Democrats see his skin color first--and, by that, do you mean all Democrats see his skin color first?

[locdlib]

8. The problem is that some white americans see their white skin as making them

more american than someone with black skin. I'm African. I was born and raised in america, but find it difficult with each passing day to attach american because america doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with me because of the color of my skin, not because of anything that I do or say, but simply because my skin is dark. I do see a person's skin color first. I think to say otherwise would be silly. It's there and people can see it, even Democrats. The issue is that many white people look at people with dark skin as being "other" or "less than." Their rationale is that if you are dark, you less american than they are. Which is quite ironic considering that the first people in america have dark skin.

[heaven05]

9. said better than

the response I had, thank you.

[merrily]

11. Yes, some white Americans do think their white skin makes them more American than people

whose skin is not "pure" white. (And I use the term "pure" with some sarcasm, but also to apply the "one drop" standard that some Americans apply, even today.)

But, "some Americans" is not the kind of measured language that the author of the OP article uses, nor the kind the headline writer used. I never said there was no truth in the headline or the article. I said it was overly broad.

Also, I might add, though it may be unfair to the author(s), the headline and parts of the article seemed to me to have been written from the perspective of a white person who either does not see a lot of people who are not white or does not see them as Americans. I don't think people of color--any color besides white--look around where they live or shop or work and think, "Only whites are Americans." In Manhattan, more so than in Boston, I saw all kinds of people in all kinds of garb. I never looked at someone in, say, a turban on a New City street and thought, "Can't possibly be an American; must be a tourist."

Their rationale is that if you are dark, you less american than they are. Which is quite ironic considering that the first people in america have dark skin.

Yes, but I would say "Especially if you are dark, but not only if you are dark." I now live in Boston where blue eyed, blond, fair skinned Irish people were very much discriminated against, as were fair skinned Jews and fair skinned people of other nationalities.

Even whites with "old money" got to discriminate against whites with new money, even though a lot of (though not all) "old money" in the US came directly or indirectly from slavery or the slave trade. While I do not believe in blaming people for what their ancestors did, it was sure nothing to be proud of, either, and no reason to look down on someone who had made their money from, say, making Westerns in the early days of "talking movies."

By this, I am not implying by any means that Irish people had it as bad as people of color. I am just pointing out that there was almost no limit to what could make wealthy WASP males see themselves as superior to all other groups.

My objection to the article is not based on my thinking it has no truth at all to it. Or my belief that all people are treated equally. Far from it. My objection, rather, is that it seemed to me to be overly broad and also to be oblivious to how people of color might see being American.

[noiretextatique]

13. look at the response to Katrina

and tell me if the black citizens of new orleans were treated like "real americans." the statement is not at all overly broad. it aptly describes a mindset that is pervasive in america, namely, some white americans do not believe people of color are *really* american citizens. they believe american = white.

[merrily]

15. None of my replies on this thread say there is no bigotry in America, not a one.

Last edited Wed Jul 30, 2014, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

As far as Katrina, If the Americans in charge of FEMA then had not been white Republicans Bownie and Chertoff, but, say, West and Smiley, do you think the rescue efforts in NOLA would have gone the same way? If not, isn't Beinhart's writing reflective of Clawson's mindset, in that Beinhart's wording seems oblivious to the POV of millions of Americans who are not white?

Also involved in Katrina were poverty and politics--a Mayor who, in addition to being African American, was a Democrat, and a white Governor who was also a Democrat and a city that sometimes swung the vote of the state to Democrats, while Republicans were in a majority in the parts of Louisiana that were outside of the greater NOLA area. So, things besides race could have been involved in that, but, yes, I agree, race was an issue in Katrina. However, Katrina was not the topic of Beinhart's article, nor way the language of Beinhart's article qualified in any way.

Nothing in Beinhart's article recognized the possibility that African Americans (or Chinese Americans or Korean Americans or Hispanic Americans or members of First Nations) might think differently from Clawson on the issue of assuming a non-white (Indian, in this case) as not American. IOW, nothing in Beinhart's own article recognizes that plenty of Americans are themselves people of color. In that regard, Beinhart did not seem to me all that different from Clawson (though I did say that might be an unfair statement). Nor do I agree that everyone who opposes Obama is a birther.

it aptly describes a mindset that is pervasive in america, namely, some white americans do not believe people of color are *really* american citizens. they believe american = white.

I agree, but the article does not say "some" and that is the key word that allows me to agree with you, but to criticize Beinhart's writing.

That was the exact point that my replies 2, 5, 11 and 14 addressed, especially my reply 11, to which you replied. You and locdlib use the word "some," which is a much more measured statement--and more importantly, a much more accurate statement--than those made in the article by Beinhart.

Even if Beinhart had said "most" Americans, I'd have less problem with the breadth of his statement, though I would still suspect he was writing without thinking of Americans of color. That was the exact point I made in the post to which you replied. Please see Reply 14, too.

I also don't think Hillary is a birther, as Beinhart implies. Yes, she did did use race in her primary campaign, helped by Bubba, Ferrara and Cuomo.

Whether any of them are racist "in their hearts" or not, they deliberately used racism to try to achieve a selfish goal. For that reason, I will never vote for Hillary or Cuomo, even if they become populist and I buy the new populism as sincere. However, do I think any of them, or even Hillary campaign advisors, like Penn and McAuliffe, really believed that Obama was born in Kenya, rather than in Hawaii? No, I don't.

For me, that may make what they did even worse than if they really believed Obama was not an American "in his heart" or on his birth certificate. I am not sure which is worse, but either way, I thought--and still do-it was despicable. But I never thought they themselves believed Obama was not an American. The article implies that they did believe it, rather than that they cynically used the racism they believed existed in voters.

None of my comments say that racism does not exist in America. They are all about the POV of Beinhart sounding (to me, of course) a lot like the point of view of Clawson and being broad. Your statement and that of locdlib were less broad than that of Beinhart, which is exactly why I can agree with both of you, but not with Beinhart.

I don't mind defending my posts, but I do mind posters acting as though I said things I never said. And I never said that some Americans don't think exactly as Clawson does. Because Beinhart does not qualify his statements with the word "some" as you locdlib did, however, I said his statements were too broad and also that I agreed with you and locdlib.

In this reply to you, I am basically repeating things I said in my prior posts. Your reply reads as though you did not pay attention to anything I actually posted, especially in my Reply 11 to locdlib, who made a statement almost identical to yours and with whom I agreed. Rather, you are posting as though I claimed there is no racism in any American or in America. I never posted anything like that. The issues I raised were raised because I think journalists should be precise, accurate and measured when they write, instead of implying every American is white and thinks like Clawson. And that is how Beinhart's writing read to me.

Is there any specific statement that I actually made in my Reply 11 or in any post in this thread that you can quote directly and say you disagree with it?

[noiretextatique]

16. not this same thing again

why does everything have to qualified when the majority of Americans who support repressive Bs are in fact white? Why does that fact need to parsed and hand wrung over endlessly? It is beyond bizarre given that half the government decided not to do anything because the President is black.

[merrily]

17. Locdlib and YOU qualified with the word "some." Why did you qualify? For accuracy, perhaps?

Is it wrong for me to expect as least as much accuracy from a professional journalist as I see on a message board?

Using the word "some" or recognizing that people of color don't necessarily assume that nonwhites must be visitors to American from a far off land is not endless parsing or handwringing, either. It's reality, the very same reality to which Clawson was oblivious. And it can be expressed in a single word like "some" or a single sentence.

Should a journalist write an article as though he, too, is oblivious to the fact that people of color exist in the US and they don't assume other people of color whom they see in the US must have come here briefly from some far off land to which they will return in a day or a week?

It is one thing for a journalist to write about Clawson's gaffe. It's another thing for that same journalist to jump right into Clawson mode while writing the story.

And what do mean by not this "again?" Are you under the impression that I've posted the same thing on other threads? If so, can you link?

Again, if you see something I actually posted on this thread that you think is wrong, kindly quote the sentence, tell me why you disagree; and perhaps we can have an actual discussion about it. I am way over defending myself against things I never posted.

[awoke_in_2003]

12. This isn't about what non-white people...

think that white skin=American, it is about white people who think that.

[merrily]

14. I agree--and that was one of my problems with the article.

As I posted upthread, it seems to have been written from the perspective of only a white American--and one who has lived a relatively insular life or who has relatively insular thinking. IOW, while writing about Clawson, Beinhart seemed to be thinking much the same way Clawson did.


Even the article had specified, "For many white Americans, being white is still a proxy for being American" I would have have had a lot less difficulty with the article. If you live in Chinatown in New York, Boston, LA, etc. your viewpoint is not that white = being American, or vice versa.

Beinhart seems to assume that every American not only reacts like Clawson, but also that every American shares a skin color with Clawson. IOW, to me Beinhart seemed to think that most or all Americans are white. Same issue he's writing about.

[tom_kelly]

3. Good article.

Our grandchildren and beyond will be living in the third world right here in Amerka if things keep moving in the current direction.

[heaven05]

10. only our military might

is preventing that from happening right now.

[marmar]

6. K/R

[mountain grammy]

7. We have seen this over and over..

"Obama's not an American in his heart" is what GOP Congressman Mike Coffman of Colorado said.. What the fuck was that supposed to mean? Good news, Coffman will be replaced.