The War Crimes of Nuclear Weaponry

[Octafish]

Vonnegut on Nagasaki: “The most racist, nastiest act by this country, after human slavery”

by John LaForge
Common Dreams, August 07, 2014

“The rights and wrongs of Hiroshima are debatable,” Telford Taylor, the chief prosecutor at Nuremberg, once said, “but I have never heard a plausible justification of Nagasaki” -- which he labeled a war crime.

In his 2011 book Atomic Cover-Up, Greg Mitchell says, “If Hiroshima suggests how cheap life had become in the atomic age, Nagasaki shows that it could be judged to have no value whatsoever.” Mitchell notes that the US writer Dwight MacDonald cited in 1945 America’s “decline to barbarism” for dropping “half-understood poisons” on a civilian population. The New York Herald Tribune editorialized there was “no satisfaction in the thought that an American air crew had produced what must without doubt be the greatest simultaneous slaughter in the whole history of mankind.”

Mitchell reports that the novelist Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. -- who experienced the firebombing of Dresden first hand and described it in Slaughterhouse Five -- said, “The most racist, nastiest act by this country, after human slavery, was the bombing of Nagasaki.”

On Aug. 17, 1945, David Lawrence, the conservative columnist and editor of US News, put it this way: “Last week we destroyed hundreds of thousands of civilians in Japanese cities with the new atomic bomb. …we shall not soon purge ourselves of the feeling of guilt. …we…did not hesitate to employ the most destructive weapon of all times indiscriminately against men, women and children. … Surely we cannot be proud of what we have done. If we state our inner thoughts honestly, we are ashamed of it.”

CONTINUED...

http://commondreams.org/views/2014/08/07/war-crimes-nuclear-weaponry

Photographs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki WARNING: SOME ARE DISTURBING FOR THE CONSCIENTIOUS

[CanSocDem]

1. “The experiment has been an overwhelming success.”

...says President Truman(upon hearing about Nagasaki) ".. according to a wire service report in Newsweek, Aug. 20, 1945, by a journalist traveling with the president aboard the USS Augusta, reportedly announced to his shipmates.

Another of the lessons of the past that are in danger of being forgotten. That governments are capable of profound evil against civilians is a true fact for those of us old enough or astute enough to have looked past any justification for the killing of innocents.

I am truly sorry that THEY are digging the uranium for the bombs out of my backyard. We tried to keep it buried but they said, '...if you want free medical services, we have to sell our resources...'

But we didn't go away.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%27s_Deadly_Secret

.

[Octafish]

5. The Bomb represents Winchester 1945

Truman was convinced to use it.

The Franck Report, June 11, 1945 - The Franck Report, written by a seven-man panel of scientists at the University of Chicago, urged that the bomb be demonstrated "before the eyes of representatives of all United Nations, on the desert or a barren island."

SOURCE: http://www.dannen.com/decision/index.html

Too bad, so sad about the Indians. Thank God we didn't go away.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. Dead is dead.

It doesn't matter if its a nuclear bomb, an incendiary bomb, a conventional explosive or a soldier's bayonet.

[Octafish]

7. How true.

Read that after Nagasaki, LeMay launched a 1,000 plane raid to firebomb as much as was left standing in the 100 cities that were firebombed.

http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Last-Raid-On-Nakita/JAPANSDaysAfterAtomicBombDrop1.html

Death is death.

[hifiguy]

9. After wrestling with this question for years

your conclusion, which I share, is the only one at which I have been able to arrive.

There would have been massive civilian deaths in Japan whether the Bomb was used or not.

The abstract morality of the Bomb is a separate question.

[Lurks Often]

3. And DU's annual Hiroshima & Nagasaki threads are off and running!

[Sherman A1]

4. Precisely

pass the popcorn

[el_bryanto]

6. At least it's focused on Nagasaki

I have conflicting emotions over bombing Hiroshima, but I agree with the OP, I've never heard a convincing argument in favor of bombing Nagasaki.

That said, everybody enjoys getting on their high horse now and again. The horse is so gosh darn high, it just feels great.

Bryant

[hifiguy]

10. They "needed" to test a plutonium bomb.

The Hiroshima bomb was a uranium bomb.

[Lurks Often]

12. I see it more as beating a dead horse, long, long after the horse has already expired and begun to

decompose.

As for Nagasaki, see my post 11

[Octafish]

8. How profound.

Disappointing, too.

[Lurks Often]

11. I've read quite a bit about WWII, including from the Japanese viewpoint

and based on what I have read, the Japanese military and it's government were not fully convinced to surrender until AFTER Nagasaki and even then there were senior military people that were perfectly willing to fight on and die as a country.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rising_Sun by John Toland, he, with his Japanese wife, interviewed many of the senior people who survived the war. The book got him a Pulitzer.

I remain convinced that using the 2 atomic weapons saved both Allied lives and Japanese lives. As for the morality of it, I fail to see the difference between using an atomic weapon and fire bombing a city as bad as we did in Japan and Germany.

I also think a lot of us project OUR cultural values, beliefs and biases into this discussion. None of us can imagine not surrendering under the circumstances in place at the time, but we aren't Japanese.

I like Japan and it's people, but there are elements in the cultural that are extremely strange from an American perspective.

[sarisataka]

13. The Kyujo Incident

Is one of those forgotten bits of history that shows how easily things could have been different and the war continued. Our big bluff was that we had more bombs- we did not.

Still the morality of Nagasaki is debatable. We could have given Japan a 30 day ultimatum after Hiroshima, but the US public and the world were anxious for the war to end. It is also forgotten that we were considering a negotiated peace with Japan during the battle of Okinawa.

[Octafish]

15. Thank you. I respect your opinion and analysis. Toland is fascinating.

From what I understand, the Emperor ordered the military to make overtures for surrender.

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages." ---Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II

MORE: http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomicdec.htm

[Lurks Often]

20. Elements of the Japanese military were considering a coup

to remove Hirohito's civilian ministers from power and isolate Hirohito while they tried to change his mind and convince him to continue the war, General Anami, War Minister at the time, was one of the ones that considered a coup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korechika_Anami

Toland goes into this in book two of The Rising Sun, chapter 36 "The Palace Revolt". So even after Nagasaki AND the Soviet declaration of war against Japan and while peace negotiations were being conducted there was still disagreement within the military which included the conspirators killing at least one general : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeshi_Mori_(commander).

On edit: As for Vonnegut and Admiral Leahy, among others who disagree, they are certainly entitled to their opinion, even though I think they were blinded by the cultural differences I referred to in my previous post.

Just because it is logical, reasonable and common sense to do something doesn't mean it will happen. One just has to look at the various religious fundamentalists of many belief systems to see that.

[NuclearDem]

14. And here we...go.

[Octafish]

16. Is there a reason you posted that?

Something else I want to know:

Why do you always show up on any thread I post about nuclear weapons or nuclear power lately?

It's a real coincidence I've noticed.

[NuclearDem]

17. Because I'm being paid by TEPCO to spread misinformation about nuclear energy and weapons.

[Octafish]

18. Not like TEPCO Rose

This nice Lady Barbara Judge, a former SEC lawyer and now UK regulator extraordinaire, wants to keep the world safe for nuclear power.



The mood at Fukushima Daiichi is "fantastic."

Lady Barbara Judge: Japan's smart nuclear weapon

The head of the UK's Pension Protection Fund has been drafted in to help assure the residents of Fukushima that its reactors are safe

MARGARETA PAGANO
The Independent (UK) SUNDAY 17 FEBRUARY 2013

Lady Barbara Judge is just back from inspecting the nuclear plants at Fukushima in Japan, the ones closed down after the devastating earthquake and tsunami two years ago. She visited the control rooms at Daiichi – plant one – where three of the reactors went into meltdown and met many of the men who risked their lives by working during the emergency to cool the over-heated reactors and eventually shut them down.

It's not what she expected but the mood there was " fantastic". "What was astonishing was the optimism and hope shown by the workers that these plants can be made safe, and that they can start operating again," she says. But this was in stark contrast to the mood of the Japanese public, still in a state of shock and strongly opposed to the restoration of the nuclear programme.

Already being hailed as Japan's nuclear saviour, Lady Judge was in Fukushima with the bosses of the plants' owner, Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), which was criticised for its bungled reaction to the catastrophe. It's her first trip since being appointed deputy chairman of Tepco's new Nuclear Reform Monitoring Committee, set up after the disaster to propose a new self-regulatory structure for the industry. If all goes well, Tepco hopes to persuade the new government – said to be more favourable than the last – to restart two of the plants later this year.

SNIP...

It's her long experience of Britain's nuclear industry that attracted the Japanese, who rarely bring in outsiders, let alone a woman. Lady Judge's credentials go back to 2002 when she became a director of the UK's Atomic Energy Authority, and was then chairman for six years until 2010. She is still closely involved with the industry so, a few days after returning from Fukushima, was able to take Tepco executives to the West Midlands' Oldbury site to show how it has been decommissioned using the strictest safety protocols.

SNIP...

Yet there's one group of people who stay stubbornly anti-nuclear – women, especially the more educated ones. Wherever you are in the world, she says, all the focus groups show that it's better-off women who don't trust fission.

CONTINUED...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/lady-barbara-judge-japans-smart-nuclear-weapon-8497747.html

It seems that government service in the United States can open doors to [s]money[/s] opportunity in the United Kingdom. From the comment section at e-news we learn:

weeman
February 17, 2013 at 10:29 am

Tokyo Rose I have named her, just like the second world war the propaganda machine is on full spin cycle and we all know the false lies that they promote and brainwashing of populace.

...

Time Is Short
February 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm

Here's a big reason she was brought in:

'Radioactive Asia: There Will Be 100 Additional Nuclear Reactors in Asia in 20 Years'

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2013/02/radioactive-asia-there-will-be-100.html

If she's working for those that control the majority of the uranium mining/processing, you can see the money involved.

Can't let the murder of 8 billion people get in the way of third-quarter profits, can we?

...

Sickputer
February 16, 2013 at 9:20 pm

Her track record has not always been so cheery:

April 23, 2010

"WASHINGTON—Massey Energy Co., owner of a coal mine where 29 workers were killed this month, on Monday said that the board member responsible for governance had resigned because of the demands of "other ongoing business activities."

Lady Barbara Thomas Judge's resignation, effective immediately, comes amid growing criticism of the management of the Richmond, Virginia, company. For months, shareholders had complained that Lady Judge was unable to devote enough time to the job because she served on too many corporate boards. The complaints about Massey's corporate governance intensified after a coal-mine explosion two weeks ago that was the deadliest in 40 years."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703757504575195070711065984.html

Another article in 2007:

"But questions remain. Why does Lady Judge need so many jobs? How did she land her role at the UK Atomic Energy Authority, when she had no relevant experience? Is it relevant that a female friend was on the selection panel?
Lady Judge bristles. She points out that, as a lawyer, it is her job to master a subject about which she is initially ignorant. To prepare for her role at the Atomic Energy Authority, she even studied her son's physics books. She also has a strategic business role, which she is well equipped to carry out.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-452635/Is-best-connected-woman-Britain

The monied class have zero compunction about irradiating the Northern Hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere or any which way they slice up their planet and protect their loot with the nukes We the People have so kindly paid for.



It's getting apparent that us renters are SOL.

Original OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022397983

[NuclearDem]

19. What?! She's getting paid more than me?

After all the work I do, this is how TEPCO repays me?

[WillyT]

21. K & R !!!