George Galloway calls English city "Israel-free zone"

[alp227]

So should Galloway still be considered credible on Israel/Palestine matters?

Calls by George Galloway for Bradford to be "declared an Israel-free zone" are being investigated by West Yorkshire Police.

Officers said two complaints had been made about a speech he made urging the city to reject all Israeli goods, services, academics and even tourists.

A spokesman for the Bradford West MP said he stood by his remarks.

Conservative MP Robert Halfon dismissed them as an "ill-considered rant that will cause great offence to many".

But David Ward, Lib Dem MP for neighbouring Bradford East, said "Israel-free zone" was a "nice sound bite" but any boycott had to be UK-wide.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Calling for an Israeli boycott (which is clearly the case here)...

is not the same thing as calling for Bradford to be declared "a Jew-free zone", no matter how much some people may want to spin it that way.

[leftynyc]

3. Uh - no

When you call for no tourists from Israel, that has nothing to do with a boycott of Israeli goods. I can't believe people still defend this piece of shit.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. Sure it does.

People did exactly the same thing to South Africa under apartheid.

[leftynyc]

9. I lived through that

and you're wrong. Nobody told South Africans to stay away. It was a boycott of goods. But keep defending this disgusting excuse of a human being. It's telling me all I need to know.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Not only did people tell South Africans to stay away...

countries refused to issue tourist visas to South Africans. See here, for instance. Sorry, but you're the one who's wrong.

[leftynyc]

16. I don't remember that at all

Perhaps because the US wasn't involved in that. Well, he could try but it seems his government completely disagrees with his view on the situation and since he can't do something like that on his own, I foresee him getting into the news again soon trying to keep Israeli's out of anywhere in Britain. It's time DU face up to the fact that western countries have made up their minds on the situation in Gaza - and while they are heartbroken over all the senseless violence and deaths, they blame hamas.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Not so much, actually

French President François Hollande describes IDF actions in Gaza as "massacre": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28637577

UK deputy Prime Minister calls Israel's response "deliberately disproportionate" and "collective punishment": http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/17/nick-clegg-israeli-response-hamas-deliberately-disproportionate

Western countries seem a bit divided on the issue of whether they blame Hamas, in fact. I can't blame you for being confused about this, since US news media tend to present a rather distorted and one-sided view of this conflict.

[leftynyc]

41. And what ACTIONS have either

the UK or France taken? I don't watch US news - I watch BBC World. I just disagree with your position.

[sabrina 1]

38. The US supported Apartheid. Members of our Govt, Cheney eg, supported it so when the

powerful support the criminals, the people get a warped view of the issue.

Boycotts helped end Apartheid, not thanks to our ruling class, the same ones who tortured and killed innocent people in Iraq and elsewhere. That's what happens when you let right wing psychopaths like Cheney run your country. They go on to even more serious crimes.

Carter HAD opposed it publicly, but Reagan reversed Carter's policies. Desmond Tutu described Reagan's policies on Apartheid as 'immoral'.

We have a sad record on human rights, we are learning going way back.

You're dreaming if you think the world blames Hamas anymore for Gaza. Maybe some of their 'leaders', Blair eg, or Cameron, or any of our other puppet governments from the Western Alliance. But the PEOPLE are increasingly opposed to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and eventually as happened here re Apartheid, pressure from the people will prevail, unless Israel gets a government that doesn't view violence as the answer to everything.

[leftynyc]

44. You can believe that if you wish

but when there are massive demonstrations (like the ones against the Iraq war) that aren't dwarfed by pro-Israel demonstration - either here or in Europe - I'll pay attention. When elected governments start talking about sanctions, I'll pay attention. Israel happens to be very lucky in her enemies.

[sabrina 1]

46. All you have to do is go around the internet and look at the comments

on news articles regarding this latest bombardment of the Palestinian people. But even if I were the only one, I would blame those who make the decision to kill people, not the ridiculous notion that someone else can force you to do anything you don't want to do. Children know better than to use that excuse by the age of six.

[leftynyc]

48. You're going by comments on message boards?

THAT's where you're getting your opinion that the world is turning against Israel? Seriously?

[sabrina 1]

60. You're going by our Corporate Media NOT showing the massive demonstrations you

say haven't happened? Were you paying attention over the past few weeks? Did you see the demonstrations all over the world, did you know that France's president outrageously tried to BAN Pro Palestinian demonstrations? That didn't work out too well in that so-called democracy. There were demonstrations here in the US, outside the WH, in NYC and elsewhere.

My sister didn't know there were anti-war demonstrations during the Iraq War. She didn't see those massive demonstrations on the Corporate Media so she assumed there none.

I assumed you didn't see the massive demonstrations around the world, if you rely on the Corporate media. So I advised you to look at the world wide press commentary where it is overwhelmingly anti-Netanhahu and his far right wing Govt. Two South American nations have recalled their diplomats from Israel so far and China has offered to help the Palestinians rebuild and made peace proposals in Egypt.

But what does any of that matter if the issue is was it right or wrong for Netanyahu to do what he just did? How does what just happened in any way, benefit Israel?

[leftynyc]

65. Yes - I saw demonstrations

that were dwarfed by pro-Israel demonstrations. The problem here is very simple - it's hamas. THEY are the government of Gaza and until that is no longer so, the world will not solidly stand by the Palestinians.

[Spider Jerusalem]

69. I have no idea what demonstrations you were watching then.

Possibly in the USA, but not elsewhere. Everywhere else? The anti-Israel demonstrators far outnumber the pro-Israel ones, by some tens of thousands.

[leftynyc]

80. That's not what I saw at all

and I watch BBC World pretty much for everything.

[Spider Jerusalem]

82. Again:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5350779

[leftynyc]

83. Take it up with the BBC (n/t)

[Spider Jerusalem]

84. Perhaps you should get your news from reading rather than television?

And let me remind you of what you said:

when there are massive demonstrations ... that aren't dwarfed by pro-Israel demonstration - either here or in Europe - I'll pay attention.

Perhaps you should start paying attention.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

86. "80. That's not what I saw at all"

Wow. Must not have happened then if you didn't see it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

90. Israel:Palestinian sympathy in US: 39%:11%, France: 11%:18%, UK: 12%:27%

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/05/sympathy-palestinians-more-common-britain-france-a/

I can find no reports at all of pro-Israeli demonstrations anywhere in Europe that were significantly larger than a pro-Palestinian one.

Sympathy for the Palestinians is also growing significantly in Britain.

[Spider Jerusalem]

54. Close to 50,000 in London protested Israeli actions in Gaza.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/thousands-gather-in-london-to-protest-israeli-action-in-gaza-9630589.html

A pro-Israel demonstration drew a crowd of....1500. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606286

Sounds like the pro-Israel demonstration was pretty decisively dwarfed, there.

[sabrina 1]

66. Some pro-Israeli protests were canceled due to fears of a poor showing, airc also.

[hifiguy]

19. Yep. South Africa was justly made an international pariah

in terms of tourism, sports, entertainment and pretty much everything else you could think of. None of it changed until Mandela was released.

Netanyahu seems to be an ardent fan of the apartheid SA regime though even Botha didn't kill 300-400 children with major military force. Bibi can take "pride" in the fact that he has outdone his role model.

[malaise]

4. +1,000

The standard plaster for all sores no longer works. Please remind them.

[Dreamer Tatum]

5. Oh please. This is Jew hatred, plain and simple, dressed up as something else. nt

[malaise]

12. So what is this? Palestinians returning home find Israeli troops left faeces and venomous graffiti

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti
<snip>
When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench.

He picked through the wreckage of his possessions thrown from upstairs windows to find that the departing troops had left a number of messages. One came from piles of faeces on his tiled floors and in wastepaper baskets, and a plastic water bottle filled with urine.

If that was not clear enough, the words "Fuck Hamas" had been carved into a concrete wall in the staircase. "Burn Gaza down" and "Good Arab = dead Arab" were engraved on a coffee table. The star of David was drawn in blue in a bedroom.

"I have scrubbed the floors three times today and three times yesterday," said Owedat, 52, as he surveyed the damage, which included four televisions, a fridge, a clock and several computers tossed out of windows, shredded curtains and slashed soft furnishings.

A handful of plastic chairs had their seats ripped open, through which the occupying soldiers defecated, he said. Gaping holes had been blown in four ground floor external walls, and there was damage from shelling to the top floor. There, in the living room, diagrams had been drawn on the walls, showing buildings and palm trees in the village, with figures which Owedat thought represented their distance from the border.

"I have no money to fix this," he said, claiming his life savings of $10,000 was missing from his apartment. But at least it could be repaired, he acknowledged, gesturing through the broken glass at a wasteland stretching towards the Israel-Gaza border 3km away. "Every house between here and there has been destroyed."
-----------------

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. So an Israeli soldier shits in some guy's house

and that justifies known Jew-hater Galloway's effort to implement his own final solution?

In your world, maybe.

[malaise]

22. Huh

Galloway said Israeli not Jew. Bibi is not going to get a pass for this carnage. No amount of anti-Semitic accusations will work this time around. These were war crimes.
For the record this did not happen to just one man's house, but I do notice how easy it was to dismiss.

[former9thward]

26. Galloway said it was not Jew because there are hate speech laws in the UK.

He dances around that by claiming it is "Israel".

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. What I notice is how an English asshole thousands of miles away

is self-appointing himself to cleanse an area of Jews, and evidently you couldn't be happier.

[Maedhros]

71. Your posts are obnoxious and disingenuous.

/ignore list.

[JI7]

34. would it be ok for someone to say they want no IRanian tourists because that's what Galloway said

he said no israeli tourists also.

he didn't just call for boycott on products . he said no israeli tourists.

[malaise]

40. Bro I was part of the South African boycott

I fully support boycotting Israel for these war crimes.

[JI7]

42. so it would be ok for someone to say they want no Nigerians, no Iranians, no Chinese, no Russians

because of things their government does ?

[malaise]

43. No that would not be OK and it would not be OK if he said no Jews

He did not say that.

[JI7]

45. he said ISraelis , not just israeli products but Israeli Tourists , what if someone said no Jamaican

tourists should come here because of how LGBT are treated in Jamaica ?

[malaise]

47. Here's the problem - you cannot use Israeli and Jew

interchangeably. I have followed Galloway's political rants for years. He's talking about persons associated with the Israeli government and the IDF - I too may have given banning them a thought, but it would be better to let them come and have them arrested and sent to the Hague for war crimes when they arrive.

[JI7]

50. that's why i used Jamaican, Iranian, Russian as examples instead of muslim, Christian, Buddhist etc

so it would be ok to say Iranians should not be allowed somewhere because they said iranian and not muslim ????

[malaise]

55. It doesn't work and we both know it

No one else uses their religion and nationality interchangeably.

[JI7]

56. doesn't matter, none of that changes anything , and i said iranians at first which is a nationality

and you ignored it.

[malaise]

61. I had to ignore it because it doesn't work

He would have to say Muslim free - Jewish is a religion not a nationality. You could be born in Israel and be a Christian or an Arab, but you could be born in Brooklyn or Bridgetown Barbados and be a Jew - big difference.

Israeli and Jew are not necessarily the same. People are pissed with the Israeli government, but only ignorant morons are pissed with Jews.

[JI7]

62. and there are IRanian christians so i guess Iranian free would be ok, or nigerian free,

[malaise]

67. Have a good look at how we dealt with apartheid

Would I ban governments and state workers involved in war crimes - sure - from anywhere.
That's all Galloway means.

[JI7]

68. would it be ok to do it over treatment of gays ?

[malaise]

70. Many of the homophobic performers from Jamaica are banned

in several countries.
Let me be clear - I do not support the treatment of LGBT citizens by the homophobic or religious morons on this island.

That said killing 1,900 Palestinians the majority of whom are civilians is a war crime. Stealing people's land and penning them in like animals and depriving them of services and rights in worse than apartheid conditions and then committing genocide against them is not the same as being a backward ass with regard to other people's human rights. The day there are state sanctioned atrocities against LGBT folks and state sanctioned murder of LGBT people, then I'll be in favor of banning all persons associated with said government.

[LeftishBrit]

91. Really? Would you really be prepared to ban all Iranians, and all Ugandans, for example?

Because their countries do engage in state-sanctioned atrocities against LGBT people.

[malaise]

92. No but I'd ban the government officials although

the law was struck down last week. This argument only makes sense if a New York Jew is automatically Israeli.

[LeftishBrit]

95. I would have no problem with banning Israeli (and Hamas) government officials from visiting the UK!

The problem is that Galloway wanted to treat ALL Israeli tourists as unwelcome. And it wasn't even a question of the government denying them visas - Galloway is not a member of the government, and you don't get visas specifically to Bradford anyway (reminds me of the old film 'Passport to Pimlico'). The idea was to make the average tourist from Tel Aviv feel unwelcome in Bradford. And this could lead to violence against such tourists; no doubt also sooner or later putting other tourists, who might be New York Jews, or Lebanese Arabs, or Spaniards whom someone thinks could be Israelis, or British citizens born in Israel, etc. etc. at risk.

[hifiguy]

23. A boycott of Israeli goods and discouraging Israeli tourists

=/= "his own final solution." Exaggerate much?

[malaise]

30. You noticed?

None of this will change the facts re the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.
Bibi knows he's war criminal or he would not be begging the US to help him evade the ICC.
The old meme no longer works.

[hifiguy]

35. Yep.

i can think of a perfect place for Netanyahu and his war minister and top military commanders: in the dock at the Hague. Then a nice long stretch in whatever hoosegow the ICC throws war criminals in to.

[JI7]

39. discouraging tourists is fucked up, what if someone said the same about Iranians

[sabrina 1]

49. What does 'the only good Arab is a dead Arab' mean to you?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

87. When Israelis shit in Palestinian homes...

Hasbaristas look the other way and scream about imaginary Jew hatred some place else.

What a disgustng thing it is to accuse of "Jew" hatred while the IDF is shitting in Palestinian homes...murdering Palestnian children.

[WinkyDink]

94. PUH-LEEZE. Name a war or battle where soldiers behaved like the Marquess of Queensberry.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. Any criticism of Israel will be spun as

anti-Semitism by the hasbarista criers.

Without that what is Israel except for a colonizing apartheid state?

There are more than a few A-holes out there that make it their duty to spin the fear, hate and victimization of Palestimians into something either misunderstood, disputed, or really a world wide comspiracy against Jews: setting reality upside down.

Oh, there are also those, who when their bullshit is exposed, will try and silence the messenger of enlighteemt with false accusations of harassment or more victimhood.

Let's also not overlook their amatuerish attempts to distract from every wrong that Israel focuses on their victims by turning reports of IDF atrocities into a pissing match and personal vendettas galore.

[leftynyc]

10. Are you claiming I'm getting paid

by someone for defending Israel?

[leftynyc]

51. No surprise you're ignoring

my question. Just spout off nonsense and expect people to lap it up. Pathetically predictable.

[BillZBubb]

75. You might be on "ignore".

And he doesn't just spout off nonsense. It has been widely publicized that Israel has a paid network of propagandists working the Internet.

[leftynyc]

76. I've been here over 10 years

and it's an insult to assume I, or anybody else, is being paid. But it's what I've come to expect around here from those who can't be bothered to come up with a coherent argument.

[alp227]

13. Too bad what he said wasn't the same as what he meant.

When it comes to Israel you've gotta take due diligence in language.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. What if it was both Israel-free and smoke-free?

[conservaphobe]

7. Galloway is not credible on any matter. nt

[malaise]

14. He's way more credible that war criminal Bibi n/t

[conservaphobe]

24. Don't care for Bibi either. nt

[LeftishBrit]

78. That's not saying much; they are both idiots.

[Jefferson23]

15. No Israeli tourists? That is nuts and he is not helping the Palestinians.

"We don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford even if any of them had thought of doing so."

He is being more than offensive and does he not see the hideous irony about excluding people
of their rights to freedom of movement? Ugly. Just what the I/P conflict needs, less talk and
more division..unreal.

[Maedhros]

73. Reasonable persons, when presented with the horrific barbarity of Israel's actions in Gaza,

can be excused for using strong language. It's hard to look at brutality and maintain polite discourse.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. Or what, Galloway? You got, like, a CAMP you plan to put the offenders in?

Nazi scum.

[pampango]

20. What's next for the UK? An "Africa-free zone"? An "India-free zone"? Quite easy to misinterpret

what those would stand for.

[BlueCheese]

25. That guy is nuts.

People argue that Israel's policies in Gaza amount to collective punishment. So this guy's response is to do the same thing? What about all those Israeli academics and tourists that don't support Netanyahu?

Maybe he should have called for Bradford to be a USA-free zone during the Iraq war. Or even a UK-free zone, though it would have been difficult to figure out how to implement that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. All the Israelis who don't support Netanyahu...

are in the same position as all the South Africans who did't support apartheid. If they're suffering because of a boycott? It's because of their government's insistence in maintaining a policy much of the world finds immoral and indefensible. Once that changes, the reasons for a boycott go away. And it's not JUST about what happened in Gaza, in case you weren't aware; it's 47 years of Israeli occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem; continued expansion of settlements in defiance of international law; maintenance of an illegal blockade; implementation of de facto apartheid in the occupied territories...there is a lot more to it than the recent conflict, and there are good reasons why much of the international community regards Israel as a borderline pariah state in much the same vein as South Africa.

[LeftishBrit]

63. I would also have opposed incitement against South African tourists, even when supporting a boycott

Last edited Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

of SA.

For a government to ban visitors from certain countries altogether - well, not my preferred mode of operation; but that's a different matter from an individual politician saying that tourists are 'not welcome' in his area. Suppose someone then says they don't want Russian visitors in the area? Or any other country that is being or seen as obnoxious?

Sooner or later, if taken seriously, such a suggestion is going to lead to attacks on Israeli tourists; non-Israeli tourists whom someone thinks might be Israeli; British citizens of Israeli (or other) origin; etc.; etc.

ETA: tourism boycotts, as of SA, generally mean that you refuse to travel to the other country, not that you refuse to allow tourists from that country into yours.

[dionysus]

27. running off at the lip like that is not helping to stop the carnage, George...

[War Horse]

29. George Galloway? Really?

The I/P issue sure seems to be an either/or issue for a lot of people

[JI7]

31. the people justifying this, would it be ok to say the same about tourists from Iran, Russia , China

and many other parts of the world ? that we don't want them to come here because we oppose certain things done by their govt ?

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. You know, I don't care for what's going on in Nigeria

so, you know...no Nigerians in my town.

Gee. I WONDER what DU would say if some mayor in Alabama forbid "Nigerians" from his town.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. Let's be honest, most would think the mayor made a spelling error.

But, yes, I agree with your points about this being bigoted. Someone needs to give that bigot a big bowl of milk.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. Yeah, exactly.

But I guess he's bigoted for the correct side.

[sabrina 1]

53. What did they say when no South African tourists were welcome during the boycotts

against Apartheid? I really don't know, do you?

[tritsofme]

52. Judenfrei!

Sick.

[BillZBubb]

74. Baloney.

I don't agree with what the guy said, but it isn't anti-Semitic, it is anti-Israel.

It is very tiresome when the Israeli apologists try to turn any statement about Israel into anti-Semitism.

[tritsofme]

89. He might fool you, but he sure doesn't fool me.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

88. That looks like a lie cut from whole cloth.

[LeftishBrit]

57. Galloway is an idiot and hasn't improved at all.

In particular demanding that people reject Israeli tourists is very worrying. This could incite violence toward Israeli - and quite possibly even non-Israeli - visitors. Also, Galloway is an MP, not the Home Secretary or head of immigration services, and it's hardly up to him who can and cannot visit the UK.

I have not regarded Galloway as credible on anything, since he endorsed Musharraf's coup in 1999. He is a buffoon. Certainly he happens to be right on some issues - like Britain's involvement in the war in Iraq; and certainly a number of his critics have their own agendas; but he is not a reliable or very sane individual.

[JI7]

58. pat buchanan opposed the war in iraq also

[ZombieHorde]

59. This makes me a bit nervous.

I am not a fan of the government of Israel, but this might be starting to cross the line into anti-Semitism.

[840high]

64. My first reaction.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Some people feel they have been given the green light to express how they REALLY feel

and it's not pretty.

[BillZBubb]

77. So you think the statement is anti-Semitic?

It isn't. What isn't pretty is what people have said in support of the Israeli massacre of Gaza.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. I think arguing about it on DU isn't going to solve anything.

And I'm not worried about George Galloway getting any sort of actual widespread traction with people, any more than I'm particularly concerned about Chris Hedges calling people "liars" 10 minutes after he was exposed for plagiarism.

I also think this place is a bit of a bubble on I/P issues that is wildly out of sync with how most of the country, and even the world, feels. There were no winners after this last thing. Netanyahu came off looking like a thug who overreacted, but most of the Arab countries in the ME still can't stand Hamas. (Interesting, with all the calls to "end the blockade", that people rarely mention Gaza's border with Egypt)

Hamas has not done themselves or their people any favors with their rockets.

[MFM008]

79. an attempt to discredit

anyone who was sympathetic to the palestinians?

[Rex]

85. Well what a horrid person, so who does he have on the list that is next?

Gypsies? The mentally disabled? Sure now it is just goods etc.. but fascism has a way of making it eventually about people and their families.

I will NEVER support fascism, no matter what the reason or cause.

[WinkyDink]

93. Why is this a surprise to anyone? Is this not a logical extension of boycott calls?