Michael Brown shooting, I just noticed:

[indivisibleman]

The dispatcher did put out a call about a robbery suspect according to the record of events but the call was put out at 11:51am. Officer Wilson did not confront Michael Brown until 12:01pm. This was 10 minutes after the dispatch notice. But the account of Wilson's friends state that Wilson heard the dispatch notice during his encounter with Brown. He couldn't have since the call went out at least 10 minutes before this.

[Hoyt]

1. If he heard it earlier, what difference does that make?

I think he knew a shoplifting occurred, but might not have connected Brown with it at first.

[indivisibleman]

7. It contradicts the account given by

"Josie", a supposed friend of the Wilson family who called in to The Dana Show. This is the account that the right wing is believing.

[indivisibleman]

8. Josie claims

that Wilson heard the report from dispatch after he first confronted Brown and Johnson. Her account contradicts what three eyewitnesses report. But the right is saying that the eyewitnesses are lying and that her account tells the true story even though she wasn't even there!

[Hoyt]

18. Oh I get Josie is full of it, but still don't think it matters when he heard it.

[indivisibleman]

31. it does in regard to credibility

If Josie's story holds together it can be taken as a possible true account of what happened. But it turns out that her story has numerous flaws whereas Darion's account and that of the two women eyewitnesses agree pretty solidly with each other. At this time I am convinced that the three eyewitness accounts are the most accurate and that Josie's third hand account is the most unreliable. But guess with one the right wing believes?

[Hoyt]

33. The problem is, it is what Wilson said. If Josie is wrong they just say she got that part wrong.

supposedly her crud is from an informal conversation with her friend.

I want to see what Wilson said day of shooting, not what some friend said. I'm sure we all do.

Not arguing with you.

[indivisibleman]

50. agreed

Put there are a lot of blogs that have picked up the Josie account and have embellished every aspect of it to favor it being a justified shooting. I have always felt it is important to shoot down every statement that is designed to raise doubt. Especially those statements that are speculative or just flat out lies.

[Hoyt]

51. Good point. A lot of junk becomes fact on the internet if people let it slide.

[Hoyt]

6. Sorry for all the multiple posts messing up your thread. My phone went nuts.

[Michigander_Life]

9. I think you're mistaken.

That timeline is just right for the officer responding to the robbery to arrive, gather detailed suspect information, and then broadcast that suspect information on the radio.

[RobertEarl]

10. Where is the officer's report?

Why haven't they released the official incident report?

They are hiding it from us and we should be pissed at that. Because all we have right now is bullshit from many sources that are not official. How any one can be accepting of having the official report hidden from them for this long is quite amazing. Instead we have the PD hiding info from all of us.

[Michigander_Life]

11. Do most agencies release reports which are parts of ongoing, active investigations?

[RobertEarl]

12. Why hide the officer's statements?

There is no reason to keep it a secret. Except that it might make the cops look like pigs. Which they already do, so what more harm can come from releasing that official report?

[indivisibleman]

15. Once someone starts telling a tale

their story starts getting more and more confusing until they realize they can be seen to be telling lies.

[Michigander_Life]

16. Afaik, active investigations aren't subject to FOI. At least that's what Ive seen in my local area.

It's a standard practice not to release those files in any investigation.

[indivisibleman]

20. thanks

good comment.

[RobertEarl]

22. So all we have is bs?

They could end a lot of this problem by releasing the official report.

But it seems the PD thrives on feeding the public a bunch of bs.

No one here should be defending that, eh?

[notadmblnd]

24. Police reports? I don't think so

When my sister (who lives with me) had her car stolen from our driveway, the officer who notified her of the theft (we didn't even know it was gone) gave her a card with the report number on it and told her it would be available on Monday morning if she wanted a copy.

[RobertEarl]

39. As far as you know?

You don't know much, eh?

Here ya go, some education for you, ML:

St. Louis PD releases incident report on officer involved shooting from YESTERDAY!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025419133

[Michigander_Life]

42. Apparently reading comprehension is difficult for some.

FOIA has exemptions for active investigations. That doesn't mean that the department is prohibited from releasing such information. It just means they're not required to do so.

[RobertEarl]

43. Not required?

So then all you have is bs, because they are not required to tell the public what happened, enabled by people defending them.

Some may like being as mushrooms - being kept in the dark and fed bs - but there are the rest of us who are brave Americans who lead the way and demand Truth and Justice be served.

The PD is hiding the Truth from you, and you like it and will make excuses for it?

[Michigander_Life]

44. I wasn't commenting on the merits of releasing, nor withholding, such information.

Only on the requirement (or, rather, the lack thereof) to release the report at this time.

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. That has been my experience as well ...

I have never seen an active record released.

[Hoyt]

23. I agree. If he told the truth on the day of shooting, nothing to worry about.

If his report or statements aren't truthful - conflicts with evidence - then they are trying to concoct an explanation. I also do not understand why they aren't releasing photos of injuries he supposedly suffered.

If true, these things will help quell anger. If not true, they have little choice but to stall.

[bettyellen]

57. I saw speculation that the report was left blank of details because OW invoked his right to remain

silent. It's an interesting question- will they allow him to add to the report after he sees (or is leaked) details of the tox screen and autopsy reports? The piece I read said if this is so, then he would have to testify to the grand jury to explain his side.

[HooptieWagon]

45. They already released the report of yesterday's shooting. nt

[Michigander_Life]

47. Different agencies, different incidents.

Ferguson police could release the report -- so could St. Louis County PD (the ones investigating the Michael Brown shooting), but they aren't required to because those reports are currently exempt from FOIA requests.

[indivisibleman]

13. I agree that the timing is right

but this does not agree with what the present narrative is about Wilson's side of the story.
The narrative is that he DID NOT KNOW about the robbery and stopped the two for jaywalking. Then some are saying he heard about the robbery and looked into it further. But how could he hear about it later when the official time of the robbery notice went out 10 minutes before this? The timeline does not agree with the account.

[indivisibleman]

19. let me restate this.

The timing is right for an officer to hear the dispatch notice about a robbery and then investigate people who match the description given. But Wilson supposedly did not know about the robbery when he confronted Brown and Johnson.

Furthermore it is reported that Brown sold cigars at a local liquor store before he headed toward Johnson's home. What if he sold all the cigars? Then he wouldn't have had any on him at the time of the shooting. I have yet to hear if there were cigars on him at the scene. Those who are saying that Wilson SAW cigars in his hand are making the assumption that he still held them when he was confronted. We can tell from the video that he did not take the box of Swisher Sweets with him because he left them on the counter. He paid for the ones he left with and then apparently tried to sell them off for a profit down the street. He's just being a good businessman.

[Hoyt]

25. To be fair, he could have made the connection later - like, oh shoot, that is guy

in alert.

[indivisibleman]

27. yes he could have

but that is not what the friend stated. It is also not what Chief Thomas Jackson stated.
Per Jackson: Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Brown, did not know Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened moments before the shooting. Wilson stopped Brown for walking in the middle of the street.

[Hoyt]

29. I think Jackson's comment can also be read as he did not know Brown was the suspect when he first

encountered him, then slammed it in reverse when he went, "oh shoot that is him."

Still doesn't change why so

[indivisibleman]

32. could be

But then they should state it that way. But they didn't. Days later after which Wilson has been supposedly spoken with by Chief Thomas Jackson and by St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar they report that he did not know about the robbery at the time. You would think that he would have told them this if that was the case. He obviously didn't or they didn't even question him at all.

One other tidbit is this: Johnson, who was with Brown when he was shot, will not face any criminal charges in connection with the store robbery because "we have determined he committed no crime," (this is an interesting comment in that they determined that Johnson committed no crime. Did they not also note that Brown did not commit a crime?)

So they had time to rule out Darion Johnson as committing a crime you would think they also had enough time to check out Wilson's side of the story by then as well. Note that they did not say that they determined the Brown DID commit a crime nor did they say that they ruled out that Brown committed a crime. They are noticeably silent about what they determined about Brown. Instead they just keep referring to the "strong arm robbery" without giving any support for this statement.

[Hoyt]

37. Oh, I think Wilson's side -as documented in his initial report - should have been released long ago.

It's looking too much like they are stalling to make sure they haven't exposed themselves.

[Iggo]

14. There's a lot of people working very hard to come up with an excuse to kill an unarmed black man.

[indivisibleman]

17. Exactly!

and they don't care if it is factual. Just so that it is convincing and agrees with their prejudice.

[Hoyt]

26. That is sure what it appears. "Ongoing Investigation" is not an excuse

to withhold information that should not change, like report that day, photos of bad injuries supposedly sustained.

I believe more info, rather than less, will help.

[pintobean]

35. It is not an excuse, it's the law.

nt

[Hoyt]

38. No it is not. If so the chief wouldn't have said anything, and no one is going

to cite them for releasing some information that is supposedly written in stone, the incident reports and photos of his injuries.

[HooptieWagon]

46. The report from yesterday's shooting has already been released. nt

The only reason they haven't released the report from Brown's shooting is that they are still "tweaking" it.

[pintobean]

48. Do you know what nt means?

I can see screwing up and leaving after an edit, but you haven't edited.

What Dotson did is his call. He's not under the scrutiny that the county is. McCulloch is doing this by the book.

[HooptieWagon]

49. Yes. I decided to add a commment, and forgot to delete nt

So fucking sue me.

[indivisibleman]

53. lol

I think it was intended to be informative.
The suit was looked into and it was determined that it would not hold up in court as a legitimate claim.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. He didn't hear it during the encounter, and that's not what his friend said

Whether he heard it at all is a good question though.

[indivisibleman]

28. yes it is what the friend said. here is a transcript:

Transcript: (she stated she heard this from Wilson's girlfriend/wife, she heard this on Sunday night) …he said "come on guys, get out of the street", um they refused to and were yelling back they were almost where they were going and there was some cussing involved. and then he just kept rolling up and then pulled over, and I believe at that point he called for back up but am not certain of this, I know he pulled up ahead of them and was watching them and then he gets the call in that there was a strong arm robbery and they give the description and he's looking at them and they have something in their hands that looks like it could be like those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse after them, opens his door and they slam the door shut on him violently. I think he said Michael did this, and then he opens his car door again and tries to stand up but then Michael just bum rushes him and shoves him back into the car. Punches him in the face and then of course Darren then grabs for his gun. Michael grabs his gun and at one point he (Mike) totally had the gun pointed against his (Wilson's) hip. and Dar.. you know, shoves it away and the gun goes off. So then Michael runs off with his friend, they get to be about 35 feet away and then of course protocal is to pursue. And so he stands up and shouts freeze and then Michael and his friend turn around. And then Michael and his friend start taunting him and say "aww, what are you going to do about it? you're not going to shoot me." and then all of a sudden he (Michael) just started to bum-rush him. he just started coming at him full speed and so he just started shooting and he (Michael) just kept coming. So he (Wilson) thinks he (Mike) was on something. because he just kept coming and it was unbelievable. and then so he finally ended up the final shot was in the forehead and then he fell about two or three feet in front of the officer. Ballistics will prove that he wasn't shot in the back like other people are saying. that's his version of what happened. (this was a call in from a friend of Wilson named Josie. She called into The Dana Show, a radio program and they posted this on August 15th.)

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. His friend is almost certainly wrong about that

There is only a record of three radio calls for the alleged robbery: at 11:52, at 11:57, and at 11:58. Since he didn't see them until 12:01 at the earliest, there's no way his friend can be correct on that unless there were other radio calls on it that weren't memorialized in the police log or the incident reports. We do know two officers were canvasing that area looking for the suspects in the alleged robbery at the time. The only way this account could be true is if they were further discussing the radio calls over their radios.

[BklnDem75]

30. The police report says...

The entire incident took place between 11:52:58hrs and 11:54:00hrs. How does a dispatcher put out a call at 11:51?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/ferguson-police-report?page=4

[indivisibleman]

34. hahaha

that's great. the report I read stated that dispatch made the report at 11:51. Nice work by smokinggun. And the plot thickens

[indivisibleman]

36. The report states that

a box of Swisher Sweets are in Brown's right hand. I don't see them, do you? He did have a box a moment early but he also leaves them on the counter. All he walks out with are the two-packs.

[Fla Dem]

40. I know I heard one account that said at the time Darrell Wilson STOPPED Michael Brown for jaywalking

the report of the robbery had not yet been broadcast. That he stopped Michael and his friend because they were walking in the street.

[logosoco]

54. The police cheif of Ferguson

(hopefully soon the former...) has stated that wilson was pursuing Brown for jaywalking and did not know of the robbery at the time.

That seems pretty official, it was reported as such on the news, so I don't know why this josie or the people listening to her can't understand that bit of information.

TO me, even the jaywalking is ridiculous and shows that wilson was abusing his power. This was not a city street thoroughfare, it was a road going into an apartment complex. Anyone who lives in suburbia understands people walking in the street. I see white kids do it all the time.

[indivisibleman]

55. I grew up jaywalking all the time.

When I moved to a larger city my peers were shocked that I was going to cross in the middle of the road. I thought it was very odd and continued to jaywalk. I still do it today with out even thinking about it. On a busy highway though I cross at the crosswalk. In a residential area I would think it odd if an officer called me on it. Just plain harassment as far as I am concerned.

[bettyellen]

58. ticketing people for non violent offences is their bread and butter.

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. There were three separate logged radio calls: 11:51, 11:57, and 11:58

We don't know if there were separate radio calls by the police officers who were canvassing for Brown and Johnson at the time.

There is no logged radio call at 12:01, 12:02, or 12:03, so only an unlogged radio call could have been heard during their interaction.