A lawyer on CNN has just articulated my greatest fear and that is the witnesses'

[mfcorey1]

testimonies are being ripped apart because they have all been paraded from one television station to the other. I would have thought that Crump would limit those interviews in order to preserve the credibility of the eye witnesses. Some of them are contradicting the others in areas where Wilson's lawyers will pounce. Who will serve as the prosecution lawyer. I hope not that biased District attorney. The Brown's will need the sharpest representative they can find. Are my fears needless and this is normal procedure. We need justice for Michael Brown.
Personally, I am convinced that he was murdered by a cop whose ego was bruised.

[Rex]

1. Is there even going to be a trial?

Seems like the cop is getting treated like royalty.

[lunasun]

2. I fear case closed too

[jaysunb]

3. There will most certainly be a federal civil rights law suit

even if there is no action taken at the state level.

[L0oniX]

4. IMO even if there were no witnesses the murder is obvious.

Brown was shot while surrendering and without a weapon. The pigs would have to plant a gun on him ...and I wouldn't doubt the pigs would do that.

[OnyxCollie]

7. They want to emulate the military.

Soldiers Discuss Using "Drop Weapons" To Cover Up Killing Innocent Iraqi Civilians
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/02/soldiers-discuss-using-dr_n_104682.html

Several soldiers who have returned from combat zones talk with the American News Project about what they say is the widespread practice of using "drop weapons" to cover up the killing of innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. We feature five veterans and current members of Iraq Veterans Against the War, plus retired Lieutenant Colonel Gary Solis, a Vietnam War veteran and legal scholar who taught "Law of War" at West Point. Watch the video from ANP below:

http://www.newsproject.org/videos/68/

[ManiacJoe]

30. If nothing else, it is the military emulating the cops.

[prefunk]

33. +1

[seveneyes]

14. Does not compute

if there "were no witnesses" then "shot while surrendering" can not be proven true.

[L0oniX]

15. ...and the pig can prove ...what?

[X_Digger]

18. Guilty til proven innocent now?

[L0oniX]

34. Obviously the pigs gun went off all on its own or those 6 holes were already there.

[X_Digger]

35. That whoosh was the point flying over your head.

Anyone accused of a crime (cop or otherwise) is not obligated to prove their innocence.

The burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt.

(I shouldn't be having to explain this, but.. *sigh*)

[L0oniX]

36. *

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416337

[X_Digger]

37. Something to say? Spit it out. Don't be coy.

You willing to do away with the burden of proof, the whole concept of innocent until proven guilty thang?

C'mon, let's hear it.

[valerief]

28. His Zimmermaness. nt

[pnwmom]

5. This is a good reason for them to hold back reports on ballistics testing, etc.

If they released everything they knew, that would also contaminate the witness pool. As it is, they can use the non-released info to decide which witnesses have more credibility than others.

[Calista241]

6. I fear several of these witnesses are in the process of ruining any chance of a case.

The slightest change in testimony is very damaging to a witness in the eyes of a jury.

And it's not like they get a do-over in a federal case. Once their credibility is ruined, that's it, there's no going back.

Wilson, by keeping his mouth shut, and sticking to 1 story, has improved his chances at trial immeasurably.

[L0oniX]

8. Nation wide hell will be loosed if that murdering pig is not convicted.

[BillZBubb]

29. I seriously doubt that.

Cops get away with murder all the time. A lot of people have no problem with that, particularly when the victim is a black male.

[L0oniX]

32. Saving this to quote back at ya when it happens.

[Fred Sanders]

9. Trial by media is bull shit because there are no rules of evidence. And no one deciding authority.

It is all entertainment, the media trial is never so much about about guilt or innocence as it is about media ratings.

The verdict is posted daily on ratings sheets. A new verdict every day. It is a perpetual money making machine, the media trial.

I am not taking sides, I am saying folks have little idea what a criminal prosecution and trial involves....media is to a criminal trial what a carpenter is to a surgeon.

Incompetent.

[justiceischeap]

10. These witnesses went on TV initially because they couldn't get any law enforcement

officials to take their statements... including, apparently at first, the Justice Dept. so it was decided they'd at least go on TV to tell their stories. I'd like to think that the since all witnesses have been appearing with attorney's in tow, the attorney's are making sure their stories are staying consistent. This also helps the Prosecution down the road because there is video they can use to cover eye witness testimony months down the road.

[Calista241]

11. They've still basically eliminated their usefulness at trial.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Witnesses aren't allowed to appear on TV prior to trial? nt

[Calista241]

16. If they stick to exactly the same story, they can do what they want.

And I mean exactly the same. No details can change, everything they say has to be the same.

A defense attorney is going to cross examine them, and he's going to have transcripts of all their media appearances.

I'm not saying they can't talk to the media, but I am saying they shouldn't talk to the media.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Well obviously they have to stick to their stories

Duh.

[Calista241]

24. It's a lot harder than you would think.

A minor discrepancy can be used by a decent lawyer to invalidate an otherwise credible witness.

Even if this prosecutor gets an indictment, a lot of these witnesses we see on tv, will be totally ineffective at trial.

[boston bean]

13. blaming others instead of those who deserve blame

isn't what I would call helpful.

The issue here is a corrupt police department and officials who are helping to cover it up. Not people who are providing interviews to news stations.

I'm not going to set the table for a failure of action by authorities and the justice system, by blaming anyone other than those who are to blame. Which is those who are in authority and have the power to make decisions and let the truth be known. It will be their failure. No one elses.

[mfcorey1]

21. Who is blaming? This is simply a discussion, which is what we do on DU.

[boston bean]

22. you weren't blaming crump for anything, or suggesting his

Appearing with witnesses were going to hurt the case?

[mfcorey1]

23. Take it like you want it. I refuse to get into petty discussion. Peace.

[HooptieWagon]

19. Okay, take a deep breath.

The eye-witnesses having spoken to media is not bad. Its proof their stories are consistant, and agree... unlike the police version which is third hand and has changed daily.
The DAs office handles the prosecution. The DA said the lawyer who regularly was working with the standing Grand Jury will continue to do so in this case. The defense is not permitted to make a case at the Grand Jury hearing. Its purpose is only to determine if there is enough evidence that a crime was committed. . Bad news... the DAs office has a history of protecting bad cops, so may not present evidence that implicates the shooter cop, only evidence that justifies the shooting.. We shall see. Good news... the Justice Dept. is looking closely over the shoulder of the DAs office, so their hand may be forced, and they may have to present ALL evidence. If the DAs office successfully fixes the Grand Jury hearing, its still possible for the Justice Dept to prosecute the shooter cop in Federal Court for civil rights violation. And possibly charge DA with same.

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. "Testimony" refers to statements under oath, at this point it's "recollections" or "statements"

and if the police were doing their job (which I doubt), they'll have interviewed witnesses at the scene and recorded the interviews.

It remains to be seen whether the grand jury will bring an indictment; based on what's known, I'd say there's probably enough there to warrant a charge of voluntary manslaughter, at least (second degree murder is possible, but unlikely).

[SickOfTheOnePct]

25. If a trial is held

A county prosecutor will present the state's case.

In a criminal trial, Michael Brown's family will have no legal representation, because it will be Missouri v. Wilson, not Brown v. Wilson.

The wrongful death lawsuit is a different story, however.

[TBF]

26. Maybe a civil suit - that's how they got OJ. nt

[ohnoyoudidnt]

27. I thought the FBI was involved in the investigation now.

That should make a cover up by locals more difficult.

[Ruby the Liberal]

31. I appreciate all Ben Crump did for the Martin family, but

IMO, he is out of his league on this one. Hell, even the St Louis county folks started releasing autopsy information to the press to counteract his Baden release - basically saying "you don't have the blood, clothes, etc... so STFU".

Dude was great handling the media in the Trayvon case, but this is a different ballgame in that they are hiding/protecting the officer in question and they control the release of information/misinformation.

[pintobean]

40. Four days before the shooting, McCulloch(D) won

the primary for his reelection with 71.36% of the vote.
County Executive Charlie Dooley(D), a 10 year incumbent, lost his bid to little known councilman, Steve Stenger(D), by 30.52% to 66.46%. Why? Because Bob McCulloch backed Stenger.

The guy is respected and well liked here. Has been since he became prosecutor in '91. The politicians can try to smear him, but they can't really fuck with him. He has the clout.

[Ruby the Liberal]

42. Sorry - not following you?

[pintobean]

43. We had primaries on August 5th.

McCulloch won his bid for the Democratic nomination for his reelection as prosecutor. He also actively campaigned against the County Executive and knocked him out. The latter pissed some politicians off, but the margins of the victories keep anyone from touching him.

In other words, McCulloch just showed everyone that he has the political power in St. Louis County. St. Louis County is by far the most populous county in the state.

[Hoyt]

38. If they are telling the truth, including Wilson, that should not be a problem.

If they, including Wilson, start changing their story, then it's not the truth and should be discredited.

I'm more concerned about folks discounting their testimony for what right wingers I've known would describe in a low voice, " you know they are Black.". I better not hear that crud personally. Have already seen it on sites like Discussionist.

[sendero]

39. People who think there is ANY WAY..

.... the locals are going to convict that cop amuse me with their wide-eyed naivete. The game is rigged top to bottom, the prosecutor will put on a bullshit case, every player in the "justice" game will be biased towards getting the cop off.

The ONLY hope for any kind of justice is the civil rights investigation by the Feds. And even that is no slam dunk because regardless of the evidence the process takes years and time is not on the side of a conviction.

This whole thing makes me sick in a way that is hard to describe. I never thought I would see this in America. America as it was conceived is on its deathbed.

[pintobean]

41. We locals have seen them convict their own.

Think whatever you want.