Rand Paul is more likely to eliminate important Government agencies than Hillary.

[trumad]

You know---that faux Libertarian thingy.

[Fred Sanders]

1. Holy libertarian, Batshitcrazyman, only now does America get that liberal and libertarian views

cross paths at some points, apparently. Will they ever get that libertarianism is just John Birch in disguise and a vile political,philosophy that would surely ruin the nation? Apparently not.

Only now does the media, desperate for a credible GOP 2016 banner carrier, push Paul and Ryan to the front lines for some testing of the Presidential waters.

The corporate mass media is so obvious.

[trumad]

3. Good post

Seeing the revisionist shit on DU makes my head hurt.

[Fred Sanders]

7. I think they put something in the water to cause mass amnesia and the media knows it....

[BlueCaliDem]

14. I feel ya, trumad.

I keep a bottle of Tylenol by my desk these days before entering DU.

[wandy]

43. Knowing that something is happening is the only way to begin to change it.........

On a truly 'conservative' forum the "revisionist" would be given a 'sammag' and sent packing.

No chance for rebuttal.
No chance to point out logical fallacys.
No chance to expose lies.

Then when the poll numbers they wanted to hear prove false and their candidate looses they cry fowl and go into a classic Karl Rove, fox news temper tantrum.

If our "weakness" is that we bicker amongst ourselves.
Their weakness.
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

I will gladly "bicker" with any democrat singing the praises of Rand (the neck stompper) Paul.

[Stellar]

2. I really don't care what Paul would do...

he would never get my vote...ever. (sorry for my bitchiness)

[hobbit709]

4. Big deal. Still don't want HRC.

[RufusTFirefly]

18. +1 Just because Paul is a small gubmint whackjob, doesn't make Hillary FDR

Nor does it mean that Paul hasn't been absolutely right about drones, surveillance, and reckless foreign interventions.
Because he has.

It's pathetic that more people in our own party aren't speaking up on these issues.

[woo me with science]

28. ^^^^^^^This is the correct answer.^^^^^^^^

[Dustlawyer]

31. Whether or not you feel he could get elected, Progressives need to get behind Bernie in as big a way

as possible to send a message that the policies that he supports are the same ones we do! If we all did this we might be pleasantly surprised at the results!

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. and in the end....you will vote for her anyway!

[hobbit709]

56. Maybe and maybe not.

I'm tired of carrying a barf bag and holding my nose when voting.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. Yeah you will.....

I can smell that hypocrisy all the way over here!

[hobbit709]

59. Since here in TX my vote for president would be pretty much meaningless

I'll probably just leave that race blank.

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. Hello Independent Voter....

we Democrats won't miss you!

You just marginalized yourself.....

talk to the hand....

[hobbit709]

61. I can think of several things for you to do.

Most would be more productive than your advice.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. it wasn't advice....it was a fact...

anyone on DU that admits they can't vote for whoever wins the Primary....selected by their Fellow Democrats....shows that you really don't believe in Democracy....because Democracy means that YOU don't always get what YOU want.....that is how it works...

So hello Independent voter.....If I wanted to discuss issues with Independents...I would go to Independent Underground!

[hobbit709]

64. At least I don't worship the ground HRC walks on.

But then I've never worshipped the ground ANYONE walks on.

And as far as your facts go, the chances of a D winning the presidential ballot in TX are slim, none and don't even think about it-as I have learned in the 40 years I've been here.
My vote will make absolutely no difference here and I'm not voting for another Corporatist

If the was a viable Socialist option option in this country that's where my vote would go. I vote Democrat by default but it's had to vote while gagging.

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. I worship the ground of whomever can kick Republican ass....and right now...that's HER!!!

I don't care WHAT your personal excuse is....

You represent or you don't simple as that!


I guess we should just bench the best chance we have of winning right?

[hobbit709]

66. you must be one of those people that bring great joy when they leave the room.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. awwwww that hurt my fee fees.....musta hurt yours first huh?

the truth hurts sometimes!

and you must be one of those "Independent voters!

[hobbit709]

69. ...

Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer you want me to.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. Do I look like I have any concern in my eye?

man...50 smilies....I musta got ya right in the breadbox!

[hobbit709]

71. Probably about as much as I do.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. then why are you still trying so hard?

I mean after all you took the all that time to build that big smiley post and ALL....I am actually flattered!

[TheKentuckian]

73. Democracy does not require anyone to vote for your candidate, if that was the intent voting in the

primary would just auto vote you for the winner.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. You are ON a political blog....I stipulated if they were ON this political blog....

I guess you missed that part!

If they hang around political blogs...they ARE politically aware....they are ON a Democratic Website in particular....if you don't vote at all because you just don't happen to like who the Democrats select....then the shoe fits....

[TheKentuckian]

75. Being on a website is also meaningless to your "point". One could believe wholeheartedly in

democracy and be completely opposed to political parties at all.

No one is calling for a coup or an insurrection, they are saying their vote is not going to a candidate which too is a part of democracy, folks will spend their votes as they please.
If you want to question party loyalty that is a different matter but that is very different than believing in or even cherishing democracy

I'll also say that I've seen you also say that folks that don't vote for the nominee lose influence and I can't see how this would work either since they still will be voting in the next primary, still can work and donate for who they support and be in exactly the same position as before. Hell, if they don't announce it then no one would even know.

We could have folks in any position or office that vote straight TeaPubliKlan save themselves every time and we will never be the wiser, it just doesn't work as you seem to imagine and it means coalition building and keeping everyone reasonably happy or the party loses cohesion and breaks down into warring camps. Bullying, guilt trips, and name calling only get you so far for so long. You have no way to make anyone do a damn thing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. No F no it isn't.....

if YOU cannot commit to voting for whom your fellow Democrats selected in the Primary AND you hang around a blog called "Democratic Underground" you must not be one...since MOST Democrats disagree with YOUR position....apparently you don't really consider yourself one...If this was a vote for a Union....and one guy sits out the vote as a protest....the other Union members do not view that kindly do they? Same here.....You want to be able to come to Democrat Underground and piss and moan about Democrats...kick them at EVERY turn.....then you just sit out the entire damn thing? Na bro..... you are a curmudgeon not a Democrat.

[TheKentuckian]

80. What does any of that have to do with not believing in democracy?

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. Read the definition....

WTF do you think they call themselves DEMOCRATS? Because it has nothing to do with Democracy?

Democracy means....you can't always get what YOU want....but if you try some times....you get what you need.

I give passes to those that do NOT follow politics....none to those that do!

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. Definition

de·moc·ra·cy noun \di-ˈmä-krə-sē\
: a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting

: a country ruled by democracy

: an organization or situation in which everyone is treated equally and has equal rights
plural de·moc·ra·cies

Full Definition of DEMOCRACY

1
a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2
: a political unit that has a democratic government
3
capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>
4
: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5
: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges
See democracy defined for English-language learners »
See democracy defined for kids »

[TheKentuckian]

79. That is what I said. None of that requires voting for any party's nominee even if you are a member

of said party.

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. Do you understand the very concept of Democracy means.....YOU are not guaranteed to get YOUR way

your petulance accomplishes NOTHING! IN FACT it works in the other party's favor (particularly the party that profits when fewer people instead of more people vote!).

Your little petulant protest wins you nothing....but that other party previously mentioned....thanks you for your support!

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. in the indomitable words of Mick Jagger...

"You Can't Always Get What You Want"

I saw her today at the reception
A glass of wine in her hand
I knew she would meet her connection
At her feet was a footloose man
No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need
I saw her today at the reception
A glass of wine in her hand
I knew she was gonna meet her connection
At her feet was a footloose man
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you might find
You get what you need
And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, "We're gonna vent our frustration
If we don't we're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse"
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need

etc....

[Puzzledtraveller]

5. Will this be a lesser of two evils election?

If indeed we see them face off of course. It seems this is the road we are going.

[rurallib]

10. Good Grief, I surely wouldn't think so

Hillary has her faults and I have never been an apologist for her. But she does have some redeeming qualities.
Rand Paul has no redeeming qualities. He is a fucking phony inside and out. He lies, he obfuscates. In short he will do whatever it takes.

I have my problems with Hillary, but I do not view her as an evil choice.
Why do the tea party's work for them by denigrating our potential candidates?

During the primaries I will work for another candidate, most likely Sanders. But if Clinton is the party's choice I am behind her 100%.

Rand Paul is so evil he is off the fucking chart. ETA - as are Jindal, Christie, Perry, Bush, Rubio, Huckle-buck, Santorum and all the others I didn't mention.

[dbackjon]

25. Well Said

[MohRokTah]

6. Plus, Rand Paul lies a lot. eom

[Fred Sanders]

8. And plagiarizes like a libertarian only could.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. About Bosnian snipers?

Paul is atrocious, but Hillary is deeply flawed.

[betterdemsonly]

9. No argument

but I doubt that gets people as worked up as another war.

[Bettie]

11. Eliminate by giving them over to private corporations

He would profitize as much as he could.

But he won't be president.

[betterdemsonly]

12. They already belong to private corporations

through corrupt appointments. He would try to eliminate them, but I am guessing the lobbyist would make Congress save them.

[Bettie]

47. Yeah, you're right

And it makes me sad that this is where our country is.

And some Dems seem to prefer this guy over...well, any dem out there. Go figure.

[hifiguy]

13. True. Rand Paul is an idiot

who proves the "every blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion" theory is still valid. He has two or three legitimately good ideas buried in a mountain of horseshit.

What is really sad is that a Wall Street loving corporatist with a neo-con lite foreign policy can be taken seriously as a presidential candidate in the Democratic party. Yes, I am looking straight at you, Hillary, and no one else.

[Marr]

16. +1

[A Simple Game]

23. It's also sad that someone would do an OP implying that if you don't

support Hillary you automatically support and will throw the election to Rand Paul.

I thought the election for President was two years out, maybe we should look over our choices first before we anoint someone. So many here want to hire the first candidate forgetting that she is available because we rejected her for a virtual unknown the last time she ran.

[ozone_man]

55. It makes choosing the lesser evil very difficult.

I am very much against NSA, Wall Street and too big to fail banks, and endless war (Hillary), but I support social security, health care, medicare, that Rand Paul would prefer to eliminate. I see no other choice than to vote for Bernie Sanders. He's the only true democrat and progressive out there.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

15. Yeah but he'll legalize pot man.

[URL=http://www.sherv.net/][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Fred Sanders]

17. So it's all good, man.....

[cascadiance]

19. But both of them will make sure that existing government agencies serve corporate America!

Corporate America money has invested a lot of money to make that happen, and corporate money changers expect it will!

[MisterP]

20. getting shot in the head is likelier to be lethal than ebola: let's all get ebola!

[stonecutter357]

21. K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

22. And Hillary's more likely to start wars

What a pleasant choice for voters to have to make.

[trumad]

24. More Likely?

Perhaps--or maybe not.

Paul on the other hand has a history of voting to strip government of important agencies.

Big Diff--unless of course you are a Rand lover.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. And Hillary doesn't have a record of

voting for insane wars?

And isn't on record as stating, in the last month, that Obama's not tough enough?

[trumad]

35. Oh---the old Iraq war authorization vote...

Yep she does along with many more Democrats.

Saying O isn't tough enough does not mean she'll start a war.

Jesus Christ you trying to put Hillary side by side with Rand Paul has me worrying about you.

Has the Hillary hate gotten to you that much?

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Most elected Democrats voted against war in Iraq

Last edited Mon Aug 25, 2014, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

It wasn't just a little fuck up. It killed hundreds of thousands, and was one of the major contributors to our country imploding for the 99%.

Rand would likely be far worse, but Hillary has big problems.

[RufusTFirefly]

48. C'mon. Admit it, Manny

You're a Hillary hater, who's Rand Paul's special friend.

Loyal Americans will accept nothing short of a complete confession from you.



Hillary Clinton is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. You love Big Sister!

We must all learn to do so.

[A Simple Game]

29. And wouldn't be afraid to nuke Iran because...wait for it...

they may make a nuke and use it against...wait for it...not the United States but Israel.

And we say the guy in North Korea is the crazy one. We have officially dug a hole in the moral high ground.

[NCTraveler]

83. The choice between those two is extremely simple for those who can think.

Why is he less likely to start a war? Now, if you can honestly answer that question, which I doubt you can, what would happen if Africa using his logic? You can't think past step one and it is that type of limited thinking that will hurt all of us. The fact you don't see that as a simple choice says a lot about you and the suffering that would occur across the globe. How in the world is it tough? Amazing.

Sit back and think about the reason. I know it would take serious thought but you can do it. Might get you past that one thing you think you like about Paul.

[Progressive dog]

26. Only in a fantasy world would

Hillary Clinton be compared with Rand Paul. Anyone who believes they are comparable probably is not a Democrat.

[meegbear]

27. But you're missing the point ...

it's HILLARY!!1!

[LiberalLovinLug]

30. The fact that one has to grasp at a straw to find a reason to vote for her is disturbing

Its kind of confirming next time round it will be a choice between two evils. What wars do you want fought?

Hillary: War on Drugs continues, Wars of aggression continue, catering to Wall Street continues.

Paul; War on the poor, War on minorities, War on immigrants, War on Social Security & other government services.

[tularetom]

32. Why the fuck does everything have to be a comparison between Rand Paul and Hillary?

Paul is a nut job who should be locked up, not being talked about as a serious contender for president. Hillary Clinton is a craven, say-anything, opportunistic, old school politician with unfortunate ties to Wall Street and the Pentagon. She would be an infinitely better choice than Paul in a presidential election, but she would still be a disaster as president.

It's sad that neither major party can produce better candidates.

If we're lucky, neither of these losers will be contenders by 2016 and we'll have a candidate we can vote for without holding our noses.

[BrotherIvan]

36. Rand Paul will not be the Republican nominee

[grahamhgreen]

45. Remember the Paulbots are very good at gaming the system, and with the Koch money, anything goes.

[BrotherIvan]

46. The Republican leadership hates the Pauls

They aren't compliant enough and they don't support the MIC. Their brand of looney doesn't make enough people money. They might let him in the clown car, but no way will he get the nomination. I think it's going to be Jeb and that is far, far scarier than Rand.

[Ichingcarpenter]

37. The War Machine will eliminate important Government agencies

So its either done one way or another by both tools .

One is done one way and the other is done the other way.

We both lose with either candidate.

[trumad]

38. Uh---no it won't.

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. LOL..... I showed you how its played

And how we are being played.

the outcome is the same.

Both are posers.......

[LanternWaste]

81. Rather creative allegations.

Rather creative allegations.

[zappaman]

40. Rand Paul is more liberal than Hilary Clinton!!!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. He's a poser just like

HRC

And they both lie.

[Mnpaul]

50. and that has the Hillary supporters scared

obsession over Paul has been running rampant lately.

[zappaman]

52. No, it has Democrats laughing!

[grahamhgreen]

44. We can be sure his Libertine notion of ending the wars will be the first to go out the window, along

with legalizing drugs, sex work, and every other thing that makes him sound interesting to young folks.

[3rdwaydem]

53. I seriously doubt that Hillary would eliminate any important government agency.

[RufusTFirefly]

54. Premise 1: If you disagree with Hillary, you are a Paulbot

Premise 2: Anyone who disagrees with Premise 1 is a Paulbot.

QED

[Cha]

57. No shit.

[BainsBane]

63. Let's cut to the chase

The people who are talking about how Paul is so great don't do so in spite of his positions on the majority of the issues--like eliminating public healthcare, slashing corporate taxes, criminalizing women's healthcare and gay marriage, or abolishing the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act. They do so because of the sum total of his positions on the issues. The same people who consistently advance right wing views naturally support a right-wing candidate. That they try to pass themselves off as leftist is irrelevant.



This is a shoe. They can insist it is a house a million times, but it doesn't make it true. Trying to convince people shoes are houses is precisely the sort of thing the right is dedicated to.

[Autumn]

68. Rand Paul won't be the GOP nominee so it's a moot point. Only way he will

get into the White House is an invitation by a President or a guided tour.

[jwirr]

82. That is a given. He has said as much. His idea of free market is actually worse than bushies.