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LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:22 PM Aug 2014

The chilling effect of misogynistic trolls

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-chilling-effect-of-misogynistic-trolls

In the same way that street harassment claims public spaces as somehow belonging to men, so online harassment of this explicitly gendered variety undermines the freedom of expression on the web by attempting to forcibly exclude communities and individuals belonging to those communities from participating.

It's a silencing tactic, and it's powerful. All too often, people suggest that victims of this kind of trolling should just ignore it; delete the comments, block the accounts, forget it ever happened. But that places the onus of policing this behaviour on the victim while giving repeat offenders carte blanche to spam targets faster than they have chance to respond, and undermines the real disruption this behaviour can cause.

The "ignore it" strategy essentially tells women to just shut up—which is exactly the underlying attitude of their attackers, and the cause of the problem in the first place.

This week has, however, seen a notable attempt to really tackle the issue. Web community fark.com took the no-nonsense approach of officially banning misogyny from their comments, though how successful it will be at enforcing the rule remains to be seen.

Of course, the move saw a predictable outcry from some parts: the same people who limit discussion by stampeding over dissenting voices are the first to cry foul when they feel that their freedom of speech—their freedom to bully and insult—is threatened.


The rest is at the link and well worth reading. DU isn't the only community dealing with this problem.
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The chilling effect of misogynistic trolls (Original Post) LeftyMom Aug 2014 OP
TBH, I haven't seen any real misogyny here XemaSab Aug 2014 #1
Yeah, that's the ticket. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #83
Had to steal your signature line... JimDandy Aug 2014 #434
... Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #440
"DU isn't the only community dealing with this problem." chervilant Aug 2014 #2
see. and i thought du decided NOT to deal with the problem. i had to re read your title. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #19
I keep waiting for the proverbial ax to fall, chervilant Aug 2014 #36
i think some should stick with admitting to being lost and not take a step further. seabeyond Aug 2014 #41
From your post to redqueen's pc... n/t chervilant Aug 2014 #48
this is what i am saying. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #52
Or racism... or you know, bigotry in general Scootaloo Aug 2014 #251
Be careful of what you wish for ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #280
I'm really NOT wishing for it, I promise! chervilant Aug 2014 #285
last night, talking to a good looking, white 17 yr old telling me he was afraid to turn 18, cause of seabeyond Aug 2014 #293
Good point, sea. chervilant Aug 2014 #326
I remember that. I think I even responded to him. boston bean Aug 2014 #286
I've been doing some reading and re reading here and see that JaydenD Aug 2014 #57
the most ironic is there is no judgment about any behavior, by gosh, but... you get a hide if you seabeyond Aug 2014 #64
And would you believe tooeyeten Aug 2014 #394
we live it. for a lifetime. it is easy to see. i do not get why it is suggested we are suppose to seabeyond Aug 2014 #396
If the intended audience cannot digest the message then what is it's value? TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #492
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #68
You get it. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #94
it is and how does one teach a troll who is posting merely to disrupt? CreekDog Aug 2014 #334
ain't that the 64 dollar question! why would/should we waste our time on a such a futile exercise? Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #451
In my observation on this board, the sexists are aware that what they are merrily Aug 2014 #213
Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #283
Then I stand corrected and am very sorry JaydenD Aug 2014 #290
I did not take your comment to be dismissve ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #300
Who would tell you such a thing? hfojvt Aug 2014 #365
Those quotes make my heart ache. It's a tug, really, not a pain. Voice for Peace Aug 2014 #376
One would think the teaching needs to take place outside the DU website. One would think Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #447
I often make posts hfojvt Aug 2014 #453
comity in the lounge? where two women told me I needed to get laid? yeah, that was real homey Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #454
Yes mercuryblues Aug 2014 #292
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #298
Thank you mercuryblues Aug 2014 #349
Misogyny, racism, homophobia all have the same root. Voice for Peace Aug 2014 #378
Yes, it's just the community that we wish WOULD deal with the problem Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #91
I don't think that's helpful, either. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #95
Acknowledging it and making no call for action is acceptance. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #100
Yes, I heard about that, and I'm glad they did that. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #107
Maybe you are shaking your head at the wrong people? merrily Aug 2014 #214
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #218
+1 MadrasT Aug 2014 #273
"Or overstating it" ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #304
I wish this thread would provide links to what's being discussed Voice for Peace Aug 2014 #379
do you always say you agree with something CreekDog Aug 2014 #339
this. every single post. like it is not there for us to see. i was using sabotage. seabeyond Aug 2014 #341
Yeppers, chervilant Aug 2014 #272
Actually, if Skinner gave that power to the community CreekDog Aug 2014 #336
+1. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #338
And this is the heart of the problem right here. JTFrog Aug 2014 #370
Yes. And did you notice the Admins addressed the problem of trolls serving on juries? CreekDog Aug 2014 #372
Remember.... DU3 was supposed to be all about transparency. JTFrog Aug 2014 #373
if you knew what they were doing or not doing, it would just make you mad CreekDog Aug 2014 #377
yes. on my time out that happened. yes. an eyebrow? nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #374
They addressed the problem of your own trollling too, CreekDog: Skip Intro Aug 2014 #442
You'll notice they never said I was trolling CreekDog Aug 2014 #445
I like cjeekdog. n/t JTFrog Aug 2014 #472
has DU been dealing with this problem? CreekDog Aug 2014 #332
Yeppers, chervilant Aug 2014 #345
Important issue Wella Aug 2014 #3
Did you read this Skinner and EarlG? PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #4
DU Rec. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #5
Or at least get on the bandwagon, ffs. PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #6
Is there a major issue here? Wella Aug 2014 #7
In a nutshell: yes. PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #9
Is there anything in particular I should look out for? Wella Aug 2014 #12
You'll know it when you see it. merrily Aug 2014 #219
That blatant. Wella Aug 2014 #229
Great question. I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't. Catch 22. merrily Aug 2014 #235
I was just talking about this in another thread Wella Aug 2014 #238
"Community standards" was something that the Supreme Court came up with merrily Aug 2014 #239
Well, that's cheerful. Wella Aug 2014 #240
I am sorry it is not cheerful. It is how I see it and merrily Aug 2014 #242
Don't be sorry. I was just sort of shaking my head at all this at DU Wella Aug 2014 #245
I don't mean to overkill, either, though. As you can see, I am outspoken AND I have been here for a merrily Aug 2014 #247
Well that's all right Wella Aug 2014 #248
You did nail it in your prior post. Posters with low post counts are squinted at, especially if merrily Aug 2014 #250
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #254
Again, I am still here, and that should say a lot about how I feel about this board. merrily Aug 2014 #257
Well I just got a post hidden. Wella Aug 2014 #259
I am very sorry to hear that you are leaving. I encourage you to reconsider. merrily Aug 2014 #262
This time the jury had your back, Wella! Tanuki Aug 2014 #264
For what it's worth, we've now hidden a post in which he insulted you muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #265
Wella, use the alert button JimDandy Aug 2014 #439
You'll be okay betsuni Aug 2014 #268
just keep posting treestar Aug 2014 #306
i am a man hater. ya know. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #309
that's one of the first ones they resort to! nt treestar Aug 2014 #317
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #313
i have learned so much about so many social issues, listening to others. and it is the most informed seabeyond Aug 2014 #318
What defines the 'Democratic base'? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #343
No, there is no *major* issue with it here, contrary to some *opinions*. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #25
now you are teling us women there is nothing to see here? good thing you wear your feminist badge seabeyond Aug 2014 #28
Assuming trolls are fairly obvious, I'm assuming more subtlety in members? Wella Aug 2014 #34
truthfully, most of us that deal with the same posters daily, recognize quickly with key behaviors. seabeyond Aug 2014 #49
tbh... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #200
totally, tbh, it is that good to see you also. and ya. cant really decide who is bottom of the seabeyond Aug 2014 #207
Yes. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #215
that Op has lots of info. i gotta get into it. seabeyond Aug 2014 #296
I thank you...yes, it's a good read. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #429
I had missed that one heaven05 Aug 2014 #335
..... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #446
Powerful piece there, Sheshe. freshwest Aug 2014 #433
It was, freshwest, very powerful. She always is. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #458
Tbh JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #281
I've noticed a changed to boston bean Aug 2014 #288
This message was self-deleted by its author AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #211
I see clearly JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #279
A Hallmark moment! sheshe2 Aug 2014 #423
Oft times it takes the form of being dismissed or diminished theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #75
that dismissing, diminishing and flat out insulting is all thru this subthread as we are told there seabeyond Aug 2014 #79
Got it. Wella Aug 2014 #138
And isn't that consistent with the history of treatment of women? merrily Aug 2014 #236
Not all that much subtlety even sometimes. merrily Aug 2014 #222
I guess the alert system doesn't work so well Wella Aug 2014 #227
I am sorry to say that I have not been following this as closely as the merrily Aug 2014 #233
So, if trolls say sexist (or racist) crap, and you alert--crickets? Wella Aug 2014 #237
Technically, there are no moderators. There is a board owner, aka Skinner. I am merrily Aug 2014 #244
So it is kind of a popularity contest Wella Aug 2014 #246
I would not go as far as to say there is no moderation at all. merrily Aug 2014 #249
But the seven random jurers know who you are when they look at the quote Wella Aug 2014 #255
The jurors do not necessarily know who you are. For example, some posters merrily Aug 2014 #260
except for Hillary Clinton, and they seem to hate her without reason..... LovingA2andMI Aug 2014 #395
I think you're getting the wrong impression of DU muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #267
Gotta correct you there. KitSileya Aug 2014 #276
Was the man who made the rape threat banned? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #278
In the end, he was. KitSileya Aug 2014 #282
Cali got the vile PMs alp227 Aug 2014 #382
Thank you! I was in the middle of something, so I didn't have time to look. KitSileya Aug 2014 #385
not much, to the last question treestar Aug 2014 #311
I didn't say that and you know it. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #35
and to be honest, in your view.... fuck what women say, there is really no issue here. i get it. seabeyond Aug 2014 #51
But decidedly not so on major women's rights. PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #73
What do you mean by that? Where's your proof? AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #81
That was about admin, not you. PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #85
Okay then. I would like to apologize for the misunderstanding on my end. nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #88
Good luck. Expect to be told what you are thinking. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #76
except the reality is, this man is telling us our experience. got it a bit twisted there. huh seabeyond Aug 2014 #84
Wasn't talking to you. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #221
No, you were talking about me. And it was a fabricated accusation. Hence, I corrected you. seabeyond Aug 2014 #226
What a thoroughly inflated opinion you have of yourself. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #228
Ya ya ya. And still. You got it ass backward. seabeyond Aug 2014 #231
Seriously, go find someone else to pick a fight with. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #234
there are no personal insults. you started the "fight" accusing us of something the poster was seabeyond Aug 2014 #302
Well, unless you consider yourself to be a hypocrit bully, I wasn't talking about you. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #418
I did not accuse you. Haven't said a word to you, other than in response to your attacks Thor_MN Aug 2014 #419
Wow! sheshe2 Aug 2014 #449
Umm, you may wish to try to pick a fight with some one who cares. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #455
Well actually her name is seabeyond not seebeyond. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #456
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #460
Well , you don't seem to care about us... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #463
I don't know what your problem is, but go find somewhere else to display your agression Thor_MN Aug 2014 #465
Unsolicited comments treestar Aug 2014 #485
this was an interesting exchange with a totally unfamiliar poster. starts insulting all in 1st post seabeyond Aug 2014 #466
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #467
Said poster got a hide, sea. eom sheshe2 Aug 2014 #470
Unfortunately, I've lived quite a bit of that in the past few months. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #96
I understand and am in the same boat. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #224
your first post was insulting people. isnt that the very definition of "picking a fight"? seabeyond Aug 2014 #305
There is no conventional mold. Laelth Aug 2014 #471
"drums of war" ? cyberswede Aug 2014 #223
Wasn't talking to you either Thor_MN Aug 2014 #225
Why did you post in this thread... cyberswede Aug 2014 #230
You replied to me. You are picking a fight. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #232
You do understand that you posted on a public discussion board, right? Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #294
I'm willing to talk to anyone who isn't intent on bullying and attacking. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #414
How dare they harass you by responding and disagreeing! treestar Aug 2014 #481
Yeah who'd have thought? treestar Aug 2014 #480
Really~ sheshe2 Aug 2014 #459
Correct, and I can respond that I don't care for your rude tone. Thor_MN Aug 2014 #461
What was rude about the tone? treestar Aug 2014 #482
this is a message board, anyone can respond treestar Aug 2014 #314
They can post anything they wish. And I can choose to indicate that I don't wish to talk to bullies Thor_MN Aug 2014 #416
It's more bullying to say to someone you aren't including them in the conversation treestar Aug 2014 #483
Ya well... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #464
How can you miss someone if they won't go away? Why choose to keep talking to those they say that freshwest Aug 2014 #468
i got sucked in like four times yesterday and the night before. ooops, five. lol. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #474
"How can you miss someone if they won't go away?" sheshe2 Aug 2014 #475
lol treestar Aug 2014 #477
The King Canute's of DU often get their feet wet as Vortex Kitteh circles them: freshwest Aug 2014 #479
My sides hurt! treestar Aug 2014 #484
If that's what you truly think and believe, then it's obvious liberalhistorian Aug 2014 #173
spot on...thanks for saying that... prairierose Aug 2014 #178
They want it to be a big issue here. It doesnt matter is the troll quotient is small and get Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #297
it is a big issue here and across the net. sounds like you and a few others are working hard to seabeyond Aug 2014 #308
However you want to twist it. I am not talking across the net. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #386
no twist. i thought i drew you a straght line. yes. it is a big issue on du. and yes... seabeyond Aug 2014 #389
Lol, myopic too. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #390
oh. thank you so much for your permission. and i do not even have to worry about it. seabeyond Aug 2014 #391
By all means. Please continue with this month's outrage. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #392
i cannot believe, you sit on du, and just told all these people in this thread, lefty.... seabeyond Aug 2014 #393
Yeah, this one was fast - only 12 years and 20K posts. seaglass Aug 2014 #327
Lol...12 years and 20k posts? Make up much? Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #387
Yes, 12 years and 20,000 posts. You should edit your post and apologize to seaglass. smokey nj Aug 2014 #397
Not according to the original link she sent me. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #399
Check his profile. smokey nj Aug 2014 #400
those numbers are for the last 90 days (as it says at the link) fishwax Aug 2014 #431
Umm...it's resolved. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #435
I know--Just trying to offer an explanation fishwax Aug 2014 #436
Thanks then :) Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #437
Profile Cerridwen Aug 2014 #398
Seriously? seaglass Aug 2014 #406
Hey, It was your link I was following. But I will apologize. But one troll does not make the whole Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #408
No. That's just not true. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #32
I'm sorry that happened to your friend. Truly. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #47
Telling women who feel unwelcome to shut up for strategic reasons isn't okay and it isn't feminist. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #54
Having our legitimate concerns dismissed and diminished... theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #89
TBH, that poster is here to tell you it's all in your head. R B Garr Aug 2014 #172
honestly. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #175
If that's truly what you thought, then you are sadly mistaken, and didn't get the whole picture. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #176
I feel so much better now just knowing you are here to save elections. R B Garr Aug 2014 #182
I try not to be too hard on the more radical elements of this site. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #184
you know who pulled dems ass out of the fire in 2012, right? you get that repugs ALWAYS had voters seabeyond Aug 2014 #186
From your own postings, you don't understand anything said to you, so R B Garr Aug 2014 #187
"Purity politics" isn't what killed us. Democrats legislating like Republicans is what killed us. PassingFair Aug 2014 #359
Please, just stop. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #126
people have been asking you all evening/night to stop. please. stop. then you put on the feminist seabeyond Aug 2014 #148
a sentence to appease then the next sentence... you tell women they exaggerate. that is listening. seabeyond Aug 2014 #55
You make it sound like I was attacking people, and women as a whole; neither is true. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #58
what is disingenious is your contiue insistence you are an ally/feminist yet, continually seabeyond Aug 2014 #70
You are being totally disengenuous. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #120
sure. but do not do anything like, oh well.. what? listen. nah. do not do that. at all. ever. seabeyond Aug 2014 #124
Serious question, dude: XemaSab Aug 2014 #134
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #407
does the same thing on other issues also heaven05 Aug 2014 #346
That is what passes for "clever" in many places. Pathetic, isn't it? savannah43 Aug 2014 #448
actually, this thread, and i hear you, i think this thread is more about exposure. seabeyond Aug 2014 #450
Stop minimizing women's experiences... TDale313 Aug 2014 #71
No you should be ashamed of every one of your posts on this subject. JTFrog Aug 2014 #112
Both are true Cal Carpenter Aug 2014 #380
are you really suggesting that talking about misogyny on DU might lose elections? fishwax Aug 2014 #129
'we need to be careful' I think that is meant as the wimmins should shut up JaydenD Aug 2014 #177
Yeah, heck I don't think we have to be that careful treestar Aug 2014 #487
he says that about EVERY issue here CreekDog Aug 2014 #344
you are better at this. this just feels so much like de ja vu. seabeyond Aug 2014 #348
Are you familiar with the history of the Civil Rights struggle? malthaussen Aug 2014 #295
What? rape threats by PM and that PMer is still here? JaydenD Aug 2014 #170
" A friend left because she was getting PM'd rape threats, the PMer is still here. " Wella Aug 2014 #195
Maybe not to you, but you don't speak for anyone else. cyberswede Aug 2014 #33
I will tell you my major beef: admin fully and totally allows spewing anti-choice rhetoric here. PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #42
Well, I'm not happy about that kind of thing either. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #56
I didn't exaggerate. Or are you going to mansplain to me how I am? PeaceNikki Aug 2014 #60
. XemaSab Aug 2014 #63
so. because YOU, a man is opposed to anti abortion, that is a cause we can GENTLY discuss, SOMETIMES seabeyond Aug 2014 #77
I hate to say it, but you've gone way off the rails here. nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #82
honestly, tbh, i am so honestly sure you think i am off the rails. hysterical even. seabeyond Aug 2014 #86
sea, Honestly, it looks like that poster is a fisherman. He likes to dangle his rod R B Garr Aug 2014 #180
tbh, a real feminist that sabatoges at every. single. point. in every. post. to be honest. thanks nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #183
you're the train crash heaven05 Aug 2014 #357
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #166
+1. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #169
you really have no clue heaven05 Aug 2014 #353
At what point is one going too far? treestar Aug 2014 #488
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #489
Very true. Kath1 Aug 2014 #65
Yeah, I'm not happy about the anti-abortion stuff myself, to be honest. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #69
. XemaSab Aug 2014 #80
but.. we cannot go too far, when talking others having control of OUR body. need to be careful seabeyond Aug 2014 #90
Are you kidding? I support women's autonomy 100%. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #92
are YOU kidding me? you just said it. we are talking OUR body, not yours. we will go as far as WE seabeyond Aug 2014 #98
"we will go as far as WE choose, not how far you TELL US to go." Never said or implied otherwise.... AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #108
"we can't go too far with things" yes. you said it. you replied to it. i copy and pasted YOUR words seabeyond Aug 2014 #117
I have run into this on other issues treestar Aug 2014 #486
In this very thread XemaSab Aug 2014 #99
we are to follow his lead. he will tell us what to fight. and he will tell us what to say. wtf is seabeyond Aug 2014 #110
. XemaSab Aug 2014 #115
CONCERN TROLLING! DUH! alp227 Aug 2014 #384
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #123
Believe what you want. But you are dead wrong. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #135
Your words are your actions on this board. Luminous Animal Aug 2014 #266
Actually, to be honest, I can't wait til Admins look at your actual actions, to be fair and honest. JTFrog Aug 2014 #371
judging by your actions, you like to dismiss the concerns of people who are more knowledgable and fishwax Aug 2014 #438
Male allies are welcome treestar Aug 2014 #491
You can extend that to include ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #333
amazing isnt it? truly fuggin amazing. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #340
+infinity. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #347
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #422
Well how the hell could you sheshe2 Aug 2014 #425
That's a good thing. Kath1 Aug 2014 #144
Me neither. That is a horrible thing for someone to say to a woman. Any woman. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #145
exactly. i remember one user got flagged for review for doing that, alp227 Aug 2014 #383
There's a metric ton of misogyny, racism, etc. that is tolerated by juries. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #156
+1 TDale313 Aug 2014 #188
we have had a poster like this in the past. the same rhythm. all for it and supportive and sabotaged seabeyond Aug 2014 #191
Well, you just got a quick education! malthaussen Aug 2014 #289
Sure, they don't have to lead the way or be cutting edge. they can take their time and just follow Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #11
ffs. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #20
+1 n/t Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #97
But to ban misogyny ones needs to effectively define it. RandySF Aug 2014 #8
Father's rights are Women's Rights. Both are subsets of Human Rights. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #14
Serious question: If somebody suggested DU needed a better rule regarding racist posts, LeftyMom Aug 2014 #21
I'm not playing dumb. I know what misogyny is.. RandySF Aug 2014 #29
I think that is where the problem most often comes in The Straight Story Aug 2014 #141
da doors. da doors. seabeyond Aug 2014 #149
Misogyny shows up in these relatively small day to day interactions treestar Aug 2014 #490
Suppose someone said that the Ferguson cop's injuries explained his weird shooting pattern Wella Aug 2014 #201
An interesting question, how I would answer is The Straight Story Aug 2014 #220
OK. Let me hone in a little on the more specific point Wella Aug 2014 #252
ok, my own thoughts: The Straight Story Aug 2014 #256
I can see your point about the magazine Wella Aug 2014 #263
or. you could look at it from a different perspective. we have been talking to each other seabeyond Aug 2014 #312
And some would say the tan suit criticism was part of a pattern of racist treatment of the POTUS Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #303
ah, thank you. now i know what has nothing to do with the problem. CreekDog Aug 2014 #350
True, though Tuesday's right. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #22
well, you have taken your feminist activism to a whole new level, havent you.... seabeyond Aug 2014 #26
Get a clue. nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #37
. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #38
oh. you have slapped us upside the face with clue after clue after clue. not only is the puzzle seabeyond Aug 2014 #139
I'm not the one who's been doing the "slapping".....nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #142
you women exaggerate, cant go too far, frivolous issues... ya. you are. seabeyond Aug 2014 #150
And someone alerted this morning JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #274
i imagine jury was busy al night long and will be thru out the day. i had lots of posts to alert on seabeyond Aug 2014 #319
I was shocked at the alert JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #323
they would get as much mileage out of... it is seabeyond, hide. meh. lol. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #325
it was defined, explained, examples given and IMPLEMENTED on du2. it CAN be done. seabeyond Aug 2014 #24
Just like misogyny, father's rights needs defining here. TDale313 Aug 2014 #30
Fathers have equal rights and always have treestar Aug 2014 #316
KnR sheshe2 Aug 2014 #10
Good article. Thank you! TDale313 Aug 2014 #13
judging from the number of hof-worthy posts in gd, Doctor_J Aug 2014 #15
I imagine that potential troublemakers are being careful to avoid the thread Wella Aug 2014 #16
Do you want an itemized list of the abuse women on DU have to deal with? LeftyMom Aug 2014 #17
These are actual Democratic men and not trolls? Wella Aug 2014 #40
I wasn't standing there when they pulled the lever, but they were all long term users of DU. nt LeftyMom Aug 2014 #43
It's so easy to go for the sexual attack Wella Aug 2014 #46
Most of them are trolls, and they're a small minority. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #72
i have a headache this big.... seabeyond Aug 2014 #106
The award for Most Dedicated and Annoying Troll Performance goes to... betsuni Aug 2014 #210
Thank you. Wella Aug 2014 #131
Glad to help. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #133
Stop being concerned everytime one of us posts that we should try to change things CreekDog Aug 2014 #351
The ones who Lefty Mom referenced were mostly trolls? How do you know that? Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #310
the point being, what women say, what women experience is irrelevant. average will tell us how it seabeyond Aug 2014 #328
it is a mens issue. it is not a party issue. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #93
Well I don't expect much from Republicans except misogyny Wella Aug 2014 #167
Why don't you alert on those posts/PM's? Iron Man Aug 2014 #62
I know after 154 posts you're an expert on DU, but I did. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #67
I'm trying to understand the influx OPs of claims of misogynistic posts. Iron Man Aug 2014 #87
i have read your posts, listen to your positions. i am sure. you see no problems. seabeyond Aug 2014 #121
Most people here seem nice and understanding. Iron Man Aug 2014 #128
as i said, i have read your posts, listened to your position. i do not have faith, you would seabeyond Aug 2014 #146
So provide examples of it occurring here. Iron Man Aug 2014 #151
"People who make assertions about anything have to provide the proof of it." THIS. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #155
I agree. Iron Man Aug 2014 #158
To be fair, there are a few folks here who genuinely have had some bad experiences. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #160
Post 159 outlined some pretty nasty stuff she dealt with. Iron Man Aug 2014 #163
so, what does the man do. tell me i am not being healthy. dangerously close to mentally damaged. seabeyond Aug 2014 #168
Honestly, honestly, honestly? JTFrog Aug 2014 #197
Sorry to say this, but your snark kinda sorta fell flat. nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #198
To each his own. cyberswede Aug 2014 #204
What was funny about it? I thought it was as lame as it gets Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #258
Are you familiar with the posts of the person she replied to? cyberswede Aug 2014 #320
Not a fan of your own work I see. JTFrog Aug 2014 #208
well, at least one has your back heaven05 Aug 2014 #358
well bully for you two boys, deciding there is no problem at all. women, we are all being silly and seabeyond Aug 2014 #162
Post 161. Iron Man Aug 2014 #164
i saw that. and i am gonna totally back off. totally.... seabeyond Aug 2014 #171
My apologies if I came across as a jerk. Iron Man Aug 2014 #216
ah, what a surprise, you and him are agreeing. CreekDog Aug 2014 #354
a longtime poster told a feminist she need to get laid. mens group have said we are mentally damaged seabeyond Aug 2014 #159
Those types of posts aren't tolerated on my boards. Iron Man Aug 2014 #161
"I guess just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen." cyberswede Aug 2014 #209
Sweet goddess save us. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #243
Too many to list theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #181
What? No comment? theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #331
Oh thank god a man showed up to tell you what to do!!1! REP Aug 2014 #102
And explained how to be a woman on DU to me. For ten years I haven't had any idea! nt LeftyMom Aug 2014 #104
I hope he tells me how to be a woman, period. I'm afraid I'm doing it wrong. REP Aug 2014 #109
I was looking to understand things and i get ripped apart. Iron Man Aug 2014 #105
You told me DU doesn't have a misogyny problem. I cited specific examples that have happened to me. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #113
So the problems were resolved. Iron Man Aug 2014 #118
That is literally not what I typed. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #125
The posters were banned. Iron Man Aug 2014 #130
I cited 3 examples, 1 poster was banned. LeftyMom Aug 2014 #136
Awwww. REP Aug 2014 #114
Don't worry about it. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #143
Seems like no one is interested in conversing. Iron Man Aug 2014 #152
nobody is interested in debating obtuse statements CreekDog Aug 2014 #356
Yes. Iron Man Aug 2014 #368
says the poster who said that: CreekDog Aug 2014 #369
If only... cyberswede Aug 2014 #189
Ripped apart? Really. It's not fair of you to expect an instant laundry list when you haven't made ancianita Aug 2014 #202
oh, you're the victim now> heaven05 Aug 2014 #360
What does "hof-worthy" mean? cyberswede Aug 2014 #23
The history of feminism is a protected group for feminists to discuss issues Doctor_J Aug 2014 #39
Triggers? Not sure what you mean here. Wella Aug 2014 #45
Could you explain what you mean by "triggers?" cyberswede Aug 2014 #53
he really is not saying triggers, as in what pisses me off, like the sport commentator and others seabeyond Aug 2014 #132
Are you saying you're an eavesdropper on HoF? theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #122
Nope, doesn't refute the OP at all. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #137
"But a quick perusal of gd shows that a few posters prefer to post triggers" I've seen that myself. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #190
you and your cohorts REALLY stepped in it heaven05 Aug 2014 #361
I think the problem is that DU on the whole has gotten away from it original purpose Doctor_J Aug 2014 #476
Baines answered a question asked her, not a call out. and no. probably not a lot of substance seabeyond Aug 2014 #478
and yet, here you are, along with average telling us feminist he will lead the way. ;) seabeyond Aug 2014 #31
"It's a silencing tactic, and it's powerful." and every one of us recognize, and reject. seabeyond Aug 2014 #18
I'm lost. Iron Man Aug 2014 #27
Yes. Yes, you are. REP Aug 2014 #103
Do you have anything to contribute? Iron Man Aug 2014 #111
More than you have. REP Aug 2014 #116
You've contributed nothing. Iron Man Aug 2014 #119
You've added even less REP Aug 2014 #261
I Am on Other Boards Dirty Socialist Aug 2014 #44
There are both. TDale313 Aug 2014 #59
and on both issues heaven05 Aug 2014 #362
And? cyberswede Aug 2014 #61
Exactly the question I wanted to ask. nt LisaLynne Aug 2014 #66
Misogynist Trolls Are A Problem Dirty Socialist Aug 2014 #74
It's not a contest cyberswede Aug 2014 #140
amen. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #452
ah. you want us to take a back seat for the bigger issues? seabeyond Aug 2014 #153
Please stop doing this, Sea. It's not healthy. nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #157
This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Aug 2014 #165
Hey, sea...maybe it's better not to feed him... cyberswede Aug 2014 #193
i know he has bugged others, but i pretty much ignored him. but... all the posts tonight, seabeyond Aug 2014 #194
Nah, Sea. Don't lie: you tried baiting me all night, hoping I'd prove you right. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #203
It's obvious who's been doing the real baiting around here, and it sure as hell wasn't me. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #199
I'm perfectly aware of what you're doing. cyberswede Aug 2014 #206
Baiting? XemaSab Aug 2014 #212
o.m.g. cyberswede Aug 2014 #217
Every person is an expert in their own experience. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #192
Please stopping doing this. stage left Aug 2014 #375
not really heaven05 Aug 2014 #364
I think the word missing there is 'blatant'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #352
+1 on the failure of the ignore strategy. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #78
Rec GP6971 Aug 2014 #101
Nasty creatures. Rex Aug 2014 #127
bulletin boards Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2014 #147
Who the hell would troll expectant mothers? Wella Aug 2014 #205
When fark is more progressive that here, that is sad. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #154
around here there was a refusal to add the words sexism and boston bean Aug 2014 #253
Yep yep. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #270
That could easily have been done when the doors of Discussionist were opened. Now there are two seaglass Aug 2014 #299
I went there for a while heaven05 Aug 2014 #366
But sexism and misogyny are already covered by the TOS muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #411
My sex is female, gender does not cover it. nt boston bean Aug 2014 #412
I cannot think of something that would be bigoted about sex without also being bigoted about gender muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #415
gender bias and sexism and misogyny are different things. boston bean Aug 2014 #424
But I still can't think of something that is bigoted concerning sex that isn't also bigoted muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #426
You can't. You don't think there is hatred/bigotry of women just based upon them being female? boston bean Aug 2014 #427
That is my understanding of 'gender', yes. Hatred of someone because they're female muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #428
Female sex has nothing to do with gender. boston bean Aug 2014 #432
Have we seen what the impact is on Fark? Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #275
I'm on my phone, but here is a link: Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #315
good to see you starry. i dunno. kinda like fox news women saying, let men be men. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #324
Good to see you too, sea. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #405
Thank you Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #402
Also Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #403
Thank you. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #417
Thank you. n/t JTFrog Aug 2014 #410
omg. what would be the impact of a site not allowing men to be misogynist trolls creating a hostile seabeyond Aug 2014 #322
Seriously? Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #401
it was late, i was tired... maybe totally off on that one. ya. it hit me like that. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #409
Trolling Is At An All Time High Here On DU It Sure Seems... Corey_Baker08 Aug 2014 #174
Having been at the receiving end of so much of that myself.....I can attest to that! AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #179
Agreed! We Can Do So Much Better United As Opposed To Divided & Disloyal! Corey_Baker08 Aug 2014 #196
Let's make some guesses why... JaydenD Aug 2014 #241
i have thought about this. i have spent time at disc, not a lot. for the same owner to be tied seabeyond Aug 2014 #329
Who is 'not holding Republicans accountable'? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #355
I Agree But When A Thread About A Corrupt Republican is Posted, It gets maybe 5 replies... Corey_Baker08 Aug 2014 #462
Corrupt Republican = Dog Bites Man story. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #469
It's a combo of (IMHO) DonCoquixote Aug 2014 #185
The worst is when they hide behind the mantle of feminism BainsBane Aug 2014 #269
It's diabolical betsuni Aug 2014 #271
While also making a point of denying the existence of sexism and misogyny BainsBane Aug 2014 #277
All while mansplaining that there's no ACTUAL sexism here XemaSab Aug 2014 #287
As one of them pointed out, we are trying to chase shadows. That one is a particularly evil one Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #321
very good. very very good. nt seabeyond Aug 2014 #337
yes, using passive aggressive behavior and insults, while positioning themselves as fair and seabeyond Aug 2014 #330
I don't feel mysoginized here. Helen Borg Aug 2014 #284
DU isn't Fark Android3.14 Aug 2014 #291
No,it's not Fark.Fark is open to all political persuasions unlike DU which has strict sufrommich Aug 2014 #301
Your response shows my point Android3.14 Aug 2014 #363
it is never a FEW people, like with this thread. and a group continually tries to define it a FEW seabeyond Aug 2014 #342
succintly put heaven05 Aug 2014 #367
Funny, I've never been labelled a misogynistic troll here Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #381
me either. nt La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #413
If you decline to engage in the discussion, then that is unsurprising Android3.14 Aug 2014 #420
I was responding to what you wrote upthread Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #421
"the same few posters label people who support feminist goals and equality as misogynistic trolls " WCLinolVir Aug 2014 #388
Comparison is not derailment Android3.14 Aug 2014 #404
DURec leftstreet Aug 2014 #307
THIS: freshwest Aug 2014 #430
^^^This^^^ sheshe2 Aug 2014 #457
Everyone has to face criticism montex Aug 2014 #441
"forever be sheltered from anyone who hurts my little feefees." seabeyond Aug 2014 #443
Perhaps if you did stand up, fewer blog posters would try to hurt your little feefee. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #444
Very good read malaise Aug 2014 #473

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
1. TBH, I haven't seen any real misogyny here
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:25 PM
Aug 2014

The real problem is the thought police and radicals who make us feminists look bad.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
434. Had to steal your signature line...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:50 PM
Aug 2014

When a stalwart like Redqueen feels it's better to leave then continue the fight, well then it's time for me to do something more. I've never used a signature line before, because they always seemed so narcissistic, but I can see having one if it's put to good use. While this is only a little bit, every little bit helps.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
440. ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 07:42 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)



LOL, I just had a post hidden because the alerter said my sig line was disruptive.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
2. "DU isn't the only community dealing with this problem."
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:25 PM
Aug 2014

Yeah, but the admins of this forum have been chillingly silent with regards to tackling the issue here.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
36. I keep waiting for the proverbial ax to fall,
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:03 PM
Aug 2014

or the pizza to arrive, since I've routinely taken issue with the fact that Skinner, et al., apparently avoid taking a stand regarding misogyny and sexism on DU.

It's most disappointing.

(I am saddened by redqueen's decision to leave. I can certainly understand it, though.)

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
41. i think some should stick with admitting to being lost and not take a step further.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:07 PM
Aug 2014

i have hopes she will read how effective she is, and how she has provided a lot of valuable info for so many, take a break and come back. i have not accepted her walk out, myself.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
280. Be careful of what you wish for ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:41 AM
Aug 2014

if memory serves me, the one instance that Skinner took a stand regarding racism on DU, he chastised a Black woman for calling someone a racist after they posted a clearly racist thread ... and he did it in the African-American Group!

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
285. I'm really NOT wishing for it, I promise!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 09:21 AM
Aug 2014

BTW, you are one of only a handful of people who post here regularly that remains on my list of "must read" posts. I have come to recognize the members of this forum who broaden my horizons, and help keep me abreast of relevant issues.

I persevere as a member of this forum for the "must reads," and I keep adding the misogynists, sexists, racists, homophobes, and bullies to my IL. (It's gotten much longer in recent years...)

The racism here--and across the nation--is disgusting. I like what Jon Stewart said about "try living with it." August marked the anniversary of the death of my former bil, Kobe Red Hawk Storay. When we were younger, and he was still married to my baby sister, he modeled for me the grace, compassion, and patience with which to respond to racists, because racists are to be pitied for their fear and their hate. I'll never forget Kobe. His children, my nieces and nephews, have pledged to remind the littlies about their "PawPaw" every chance they get.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
293. last night, talking to a good looking, white 17 yr old telling me he was afraid to turn 18, cause of
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:24 AM
Aug 2014

the cops. i hear this from teens, turning 18. a lot is in the thrill of being an adult, and that is the one thing the young males can grab. what popped in my head, and out my mouth, is ... be thankful you are not a young black male turning 18. in reference to cops.

after the last month, for the black community and their experience, i do not know why it is not forefront in all our minds. the injustice.

but, i think it will be something that is prevalent in my conversations with our youth. how can it be denied?

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
326. Good point, sea.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:21 AM
Aug 2014

With all the isms our species evinces, I am constantly vigilant not to become a misanthropist.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
286. I remember that. I think I even responded to him.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 09:33 AM
Aug 2014

can you send me a link so I can review again? if you have handy that is.

 

JaydenD

(294 posts)
57. I've been doing some reading and re reading here and see that
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:16 PM
Aug 2014

feminists are supposed to 'teach' the sexist, to 'be nice' about it tho. Do racist and homophobes have to be taught in that same way or are there different rules? Seems to be different rules, as I see it.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
64. the most ironic is there is no judgment about any behavior, by gosh, but... you get a hide if you
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:19 PM
Aug 2014

say the behavior out loud, cause THAT is offensive. example. du is all for cheering flynt. BUT... state three things he did or said, and that offends that same crowd, that wallows in his filth. now. we must educate. but we must wrap the garbage and abuse up all pretty, in a little bow, so it is easily disgested. and yes...

tone matters.

and yes. a long time duer can tell a feminist she just needs to get laid. but... that long time feminist is not allowed to be pissed. she must address nicely.

i have also been told passive aggressive is civil. truth? not so much

and just so much more.

any thread that is a womans issue, you will see the same old men and others, jump in and purely derail the discussion that is anything but what the thread is about.

tooeyeten

(1,074 posts)
394. And would you believe
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:38 PM
Aug 2014

"any thread that is a womans issue, you will see the same old men and others, jump in and purely derail the discussion that is anything but what the thread is about."

This is the same thing that goes on in real life, everyday, particularly in the workplace. And it's more harmful as that behavior is usually bullying, marginalizes women, even "gaslight-ing" making women think they're crazy and what's happening is their "womanly imagination."

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
396. we live it. for a lifetime. it is easy to see. i do not get why it is suggested we are suppose to
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:41 PM
Aug 2014

ignore it and not speak out against it.

thank you for your post.

it is a very real, in our very real lives.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
492. If the intended audience cannot digest the message then what is it's value?
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 03:13 PM
Aug 2014

Particularly when said audience has nothing to gain from its perspective by "getting it" anyway?

Basic communication and marketing stuff. Should you have sell and pitch? No. Do you in reality? Oh fuck yes.

You can preach brimstone and fire to the choir or you can make headway with the folks that need to be convinced by building bridges from where they are to or at least toward where you need them to be both have value but one size doesn't fit all.

At bare bones minimum, you have to at least be intelligible to who you address which means common language and definitions with in the framework of the language.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
451. ain't that the 64 dollar question! why would/should we waste our time on a such a futile exercise?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:40 PM
Aug 2014

it boggles the mind.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
213. In my observation on this board, the sexists are aware that what they are
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:06 AM
Aug 2014

posting is sexist. That is the very reason they are posting it. And, also because they can.

So, what is the role for the teacher?

But, isn't this typical? If women get raped, it's because they were not careful or modest enough and it's up to them not to get raped. If women object to sexist comments, it's up to them to make the commenter stop. (Not that the two are equal, but the blame shifting is the same in both instances.)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
283. Actually ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:56 AM
Aug 2014

while I can't speak for the LGBT community on DU, Black DUers will tell you "Yes" ... we are told that we must "educate" white people on racism, in a manner that does not make them feel uncomfortable and just agree to disagree when told that what we see as racist really isn't racist; while being told that the police reaction in Ferguson is/was exactly like that to OWS.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
365. Who would tell you such a thing?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:00 PM
Aug 2014

"We must meet violence with nonviolence. Remember the words of Jesus: 'He who lives by the sword will perish by the sword.' I then urged them to leave peacefully. 'We must love our white brothers,' I said, 'no matter what they do to us. We must make them know that we love them. Jesus still cries out in words that echo across the centuries: 'Love your enemies; bless them that curse you; pray for them that despitefully use you,' This is what we must live by. We must meet hate with love." MLK 'Stride toward freedom' pp 137-38

And those words coming from a man who just had somebody blow up his house while his wife and baby daughter were inside it. Admittedly that would not be my own reaction. I'd probably be more like Elmer Fudd pushing off his magic helmet and shouting with rage "I'll kill the wabbit!"

"For while the nonviolent resister is passive in the sense that he is not physically aggressive toward his oppponent, his mind and emotions are always active, constantly seeking to persuade his opponent that he is wrong...it does not seek to defeat or humilate the opponent, but to win his friendship and understanding...A fifth point concerning nonviolent resistance is that it avoids not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. The nonviolent resister not only refuses to shoot his opponent but he also refuses to hate him." p 102-03 op. cit.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
376. Those quotes make my heart ache. It's a tug, really, not a pain.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:33 PM
Aug 2014

Our real power is love. We mustn't try to make it live by
our rules. Sometimes Love rises up like a lion and roars,
and moves mountains.

The rest of the time it's teaching, guiding, strengthening,
encouraging, growing, nourishing, creating, transforming,
evolving, sustaining, balancing, rejuvenating, digesting & resting.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
447. One would think the teaching needs to take place outside the DU website. One would think
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:32 PM
Aug 2014

that on DU website one could come for comity and assistance.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
453. I often make posts
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:27 PM
Aug 2014

trying to reach the wider world

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024400678

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/169

And GD tends to NOT be a place for comity, I liken it to a moshe-pit. Comity is more likely to be found in the lounge or sub-forums.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
454. comity in the lounge? where two women told me I needed to get laid? yeah, that was real homey
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:36 PM
Aug 2014

feeling. and someone earlier today told me to not leave mad just leave. so yeah, having a hard time seeing all the comity in the lounge, ymmv.

mercuryblues

(14,491 posts)
292. Yes
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:14 AM
Aug 2014

feminists, AA, and the LGBQ communities must educate. However, those that shoot spitballs at the teacher should be tolerated, instead of being sent for a time out.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
378. Misogyny, racism, homophobia all have the same root.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:12 PM
Aug 2014

I think it's essential to understand this if we want to
progress as a humanity.

What is that root? It is ignorance.
All hate springs from ignorance,
compounded by misinformation.

I have the impression that people think it should not be the
responsibility of minorities to educate racists; or feminists
to educate misogynists; or gay men and women to educate
homophobes; is this a correct impression?

In my experience,
the only thing
that can remove ignorance
is knowledge.

Once in a blue moon anger will get through; every so often
a battle is won by force, and necessarily so. But the real work,
lasting long term, is education. Help people turn on the lights,
so they can see for themselves.

The ones already educated -- who understand
issues deeply thoroughly and personally -- are
in my opinion the only ones qualified to educate
others about these issues.

Without being issue-specific, I have often felt this way:

Help me!! Help me to understand! I do not WANT to be XYZ, I can not see myself, HELP ME understand
what you see, and how I/we can move past it.


Sadly too often the response has been unfriendly and disheartening, like Fuck you if you don't already
understand.


Two teachers, one classroom of students.
One teacher resorts to anger, shaming, insults;
the other uses kindness, humor, tolerance,
forgiveness, an occasional ROAR when needed.

Love is powerful. So is Humility.

Kindness is SUPER-powerful; it
can totally disarm assholes, who
generally are stumped for a response.

Listening & Understanding are Superpowers.
They allow you to see into the other person, and
to find loopholes, weak spots in their ignorance.

Forgiveness is also a superpower which, when used
appropriately and at the right times, can help
prevent illnesses brought on by anger, stress.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
91. Yes, it's just the community that we wish WOULD deal with the problem
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:36 PM
Aug 2014

rather than taking the "nothing to see hear, folks" approach.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
95. I don't think that's helpful, either.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:37 PM
Aug 2014

Can't we just acknowledge the problem does exist, rather than outright denying it, or overstating it? SMH, y'all.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
100. Acknowledging it and making no call for action is acceptance.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:40 PM
Aug 2014

Problem exists, find a solution and fucking implementing it without hesitation. That's what fark did.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
107. Yes, I heard about that, and I'm glad they did that.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:43 PM
Aug 2014

And I'd have supported officially adding it to the TOS in text, even if we didn't have a trolling problem. So I hope you understand that, at least.

Response to merrily (Reply #214)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
304. "Or overstating it" ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:43 AM
Aug 2014

subtle ... very, subtle.

But isn't that, also, what the OP is talking about ... The minimization of misogyny, as an issue?

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
379. I wish this thread would provide links to what's being discussed
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:19 PM
Aug 2014

I must not have read enough here on DU to have encountered
misogynistic trolls. Can they not be ignored? I don't really
understand what people are asking Skinner to do, or how.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
341. this. every single post. like it is not there for us to see. i was using sabotage.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:41 AM
Aug 2014

but, you say it so much better. exactly. thank you.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
370. And this is the heart of the problem right here.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:16 PM
Aug 2014

As long as they bury their heads they are complicit.

End. of.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
445. You'll notice they never said I was trolling
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:04 PM
Aug 2014

And the person who complained about me to admins there is the most unpopular person in this thread.

Speaking of trolling, your OP during the government shutdown where you said nobody was being hurt...takes audacity to post that and call me a troll.

By the way you still haven't told us if you'll vote for or against Rsnd Paul.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
332. has DU been dealing with this problem?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:31 AM
Aug 2014

i see the same people who have done pretty nasty things towards women still here.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
345. Yeppers,
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:56 AM
Aug 2014

that's the point of my post. The same names, same nasty things.. Certain feminists among us remain the targets of their hate and derision. It says something about those who refuse to see, refuse to change the TOS... Sad, really.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
3. Important issue
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:25 PM
Aug 2014

What these trolls are mostly responding to is what is in their own twisted heads. They are spewing hatred because that is what they carry with them. As a woman, you can challenge them, in which case males accelerate the attacks: they can't "lose to a girl." If you ignore them, they are allowed to fester, unchallenged. The only reaction that can work--total destructive behavior towards these males--gets you in trouble and goes against the ethics of most women.

It's really hard to know what to do.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
229. That blatant.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:28 AM
Aug 2014

So what does one do? Alerting is not helpful since you don't get a moderator, you get seven anonymous people who may not have a clue. If you confront, the moderators come on and tell you to alert.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
238. I was just talking about this in another thread
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:43 AM
Aug 2014

You'll see it. I don't understand how things get moderated. Is moderation a popularity contest?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
239. "Community standards" was something that the Supreme Court came up with
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:48 AM
Aug 2014

for judging pornography. I think, basically, the Justices got tired of watching pornographic films in order to decide if a specific work of porn had "any redeeming social value" or not, "redeeming social value" having been their prior standard. But, the idea was that, what might fly just fine on 42nd street in Manhattan might not be appropriate for the Bible Belt, to give just one example.

The Justices NEVER did and never would leave political speech to community standards, though. Then again they don't have to worry about making money from a message board.

And the jury system is easily abused in a number of ways.

But, that is the system of this board. So, live with it or get banned by it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
242. I am sorry it is not cheerful. It is how I see it and
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:58 AM
Aug 2014

I post how I see things, without much window dressing. Diplomatic posting is not my strong suit.

Lots of cheerleaders and diplomats post here. So, you will not lack for cheer. But, if you ask me questions, the answers may not be cheerful.

One of my close female friends once asked me what I thought she was doing wrong in her relationship.

I had had opinions about that, but had been keeping them to myself. And I knew then, as I know now, that softpedaling was not my strong suit. So, I tried to beg off from answering.

She said "I know who I asked. If I didn't want to hear your answer in your style, I would have asked someone else."

So, now, you, too, know who you asked. I don't do cheerful unless I truly am optimistic about the topic at hand.

I hope you get from DU whatever you hope to get. Enjoy.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
245. Don't be sorry. I was just sort of shaking my head at all this at DU
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:07 AM
Aug 2014

With the elections coming up, I thought this would be an interesting place to post. Back in the day, I worked on political campaigns but that was years ago. I don't have the energy for that now. I thought I might try online and see what was going on. Maybe that was a mistake.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
247. I don't mean to overkill, either, though. As you can see, I am outspoken AND I have been here for a
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:11 AM
Aug 2014

while. From that, you can conclude that I have found a lot of reason to keep posting here. And, although I am critical of Democrats (though not as critical as I am of Republicans), I have not been kicked off.

However, I have to tell you that, once election season officially starts, freedom to criticize Democrats gets curtailed. And election season or not, you can never advocate voting third party or not voting at all. It's all in the terms of service.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
248. Well that's all right
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:18 AM
Aug 2014

I wouldn't have expected anything else during election season. And it's not like I would be supporting the GOP any decade soon.
One thing that does bother me though: is everyone here paranoid? I told you about the first two accusations, the one for being a Monsanto shill (!) and the other for being new (?) and now, some guy is calling me a disruptor, although I think he might be high:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025464196

I've never seen so much paranoia in such a short time. I'm beginning to wonder what I am getting myself into. I like to ask questions, especially when I don't know something. But, I also have knowledge and won't be bossed around. I guess I must be doing something wrong, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what it is. This is a Kafka-like experience with everyone accusing you of being something--anything--that isn't ok. Is this normal, or have I just run into the weird ones?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
250. You did nail it in your prior post. Posters with low post counts are squinted at, especially if
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:28 AM
Aug 2014

they are disagreeing with the prevailing view. That is not supposed to happen, but it does. I guess people here have had a lot of experience with new posters who turn out to be RW trolls, maybe even RW trolls who were banned for that in the past and have signed up again under another name.

Because I don't take the prevailing view here I am still, after thousands of posts, accused of being RW or a Paul supporter or both, when the reality is that I am to the left of the posters accusing you. Not usually to my face, mind you. There is a habit here of discussing individual DUers or groups of DUers on the board, but with third parties. It's divisive shit stirring, IMO, but I have fallen into it on occasion, including maybe in this very post, so mea maxima culpa.

But again, there is a lot of reason why I keep posting here, so please bear that in mind.

Response to merrily (Reply #250)

merrily

(45,251 posts)
257. Again, I am still here, and that should say a lot about how I feel about this board.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:38 AM
Aug 2014

Not to be shamelessly immodest, but I think that I am a worthwhile political type; and I don't think I am the only DUer that description fits, by a long shot. And I don't mean only the people I agree with. On spots along the political spectrum, there are thoughtful posters here. But, any board could use more worthwhile posters, so I hope you will stay.

For whatever it's worth though, I have seen people who have been here since the very early days say it is not as good as it used to be. Whether that is truth or nostalgia, I cannot say. In general, most eople tend to be warmer about the past and more optimistic about the future than they are happy about the current state of events.

BTW, making personal comments about a poster is a way to get a post hidden. I will not alert but someone else might. I tend to alert only on bigotry and stereotypes, and therefore only rarely. I just don't want you to get blindsided.

Again, I am very, very sorry if I am discouraging you. That is not my intent or, in my opinion, an accurate picture of DU as a whole. At least lurk a while and speak to other posters before making up your mind.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
259. Well I just got a post hidden.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:41 AM
Aug 2014

Three people have insulted me on this board and crickets. But I joke that some guy is high (because he's making no sense) and, he alerts and I get a hidden post. It IS a popularity contest. Others can abuse me freely, but I can't make a joke. It's a pity.

I think I am leaving. You have been interesting to talk to and if you're on another board, I'd be happy to meet you there. This is a truly nasty place.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5464353

Tanuki

(14,893 posts)
264. This time the jury had your back, Wella!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:10 AM
Aug 2014

On Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:52 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Well I just got a post hidden.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5464446

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Bashing DU and whining about DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:08 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So? The only reason this was alerted on was because it's a low-count poster, I bet.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Some elements of DU (e.g., rampant misogyny), deserved to be bashed. Dismissing legitimate concerns as "whining" is part of the problem. I wish I could alert on this alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Dead wrong to alert on this newbie. I most certainly believe her, unfortunately. When that happens, it should be stopped, one way or another. She should not have to bear it in silence or get tombstoned. Leave this post, please.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If complaining about how people behave were worthy of a hide, nearly everyone would be banned.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
265. For what it's worth, we've now hidden a post in which he insulted you
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:58 AM
Aug 2014

(I was on the jury for it). Yes, his posts made little sense without your questioning, and he seemed to resent being asked what he meant. Some people do feel being told they sound drunk, or high, is an insult, and you were unlucky enough to get a jury that came down on his side. There are proper political discussions on DU, sometimes, but they can get drowned out by people who post assuming we all know what's going on in their lives, what they mean by a few general words, and that any thread they start should be their own personal property where everyone has to behave like guests in a formal salon with the thread starter controlling the whole thing.

Party political activity on DU is dying out. There's very little about the elections just a couple of months away. Issues that are deeply political as well as social, such as Ferguson, do get discussed a lot, but not often with any advancement as a result. We all deplore the bad stuff, many have opinions about what should happen, but rarely do I get the impression that anyone here will change their, or manage to change other people's, opinions. Hopefully, some good happens to us unconsciously.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
439. Wella, use the alert button
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 07:08 PM
Aug 2014

if other posters are 'abusing' you. I saw the Monsanto shill accusation some days ago, but didn't alert because I was in a hurry and thought you would. Stick up for yourself, if we fail to do so.

betsuni

(25,136 posts)
268. You'll be okay
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:25 AM
Aug 2014

You already have more posts than I did months after joining. I don't post a lot and still get accused of all sorts of things I haven't done. And it's usually the posts you don't expect would upset anyone. Recently after commenting I received a reply so quickly self-deleted that I couldn't read it, but I know it was mean and I'm glad I didn't see it (that person doesn't care for women mentioning male privilege and the thread was about that, or feminism). What was my comment? In agreement with someone I'd written one word: "Yes!" Richly ironic that yesterday I was accused of being a misogynist. I'm simultaneously a radical feminist woman and a misogynistic woman-hater.

I have a low post count. I live alone in a small tent made from garbage bags on the Island of Misfit DU Members. I have bad breath and write awkward puns that everyone assumes are spelling errors. I can't seem to write anything that isn't taken in the worst possible way. SERENITY NOW!



treestar

(82,383 posts)
306. just keep posting
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:46 AM
Aug 2014

that is routine for DU. I've been here years and have been called a homophobe personally and implied to be a "corporate shill" and "NSA apologist" just for arguing. "Authoritarian" is another good one for supporters of Democrats who aren't into criticizing them only. You get to know the posters. There is one that will find you to be a homophobe, even if you support gay marriage, for example. I would not be surprised at being called a "Monsanto shill" for anything not toeing the party line. You also must oppose the NAFTA and that latest trade agreement without question or whether or not you understand it, or you will get called a "corporate shill."

The juries are in control and that does not always work, since the jurors might include a majority who vote not on civility but on opinions.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
313. No ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:58 AM
Aug 2014

DU can be a wonderful place ... It's packed with some smart, engaged and interesting people.

A piece of advice, though: Don't let post count fool you ... some folks with the highest post counts, list "Democrat" as their 3rd or 4th political descriptor. (And, that cohort insist that they are the Democratic base.)

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
318. i have learned so much about so many social issues, listening to others. and it is the most informed
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:06 AM
Aug 2014

site i have found when staying abreast in political issues.

the diverse perspectives are very important.

lack of rules, lead to chaos. that is du's sin, today. ya ya ya. not religious and not sin in that manner.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
343. What defines the 'Democratic base'?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:48 AM
Aug 2014

'Democrat' isn't even in my list of descriptors any more, but I vote in every single election and the vast majority (95%+) of those I vote for are Democrats, and I've donated money and pounded the pavement for Democrats.

So are people who proudly proclaim themselves 'Democrats' first and foremost, but only vote sporadically, and don't donate or do any work for Dem candidates more 'Democratic base' simply because they claim it as their 'prime descriptor'?

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
25. No, there is no *major* issue with it here, contrary to some *opinions*.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:56 PM
Aug 2014

This is generally a really nice community. We have had a few problems with some hit-and-run trolls in the past, but (Actual) misogyny, racism, etc. are not tolerated by the people who run this site.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
28. now you are teling us women there is nothing to see here? good thing you wear your feminist badge
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:58 PM
Aug 2014
 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
34. Assuming trolls are fairly obvious, I'm assuming more subtlety in members?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:01 PM
Aug 2014

Would that be correct?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
49. truthfully, most of us that deal with the same posters daily, recognize quickly with key behaviors.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:11 PM
Aug 2014

tbh, some are awfully obvious. honestly though, it takes administration a long time to get some because they simply have not gone over their line, lots of chances, benefits of a doubt, and not seeing it regularly. and really? to be totally honest, women are the bottom of the dung. but it is always good to have our so honest friend let us know... no issue, as he is smack in the middle so often having it spelled out for him again, and again... tbh.

the in your face, one post troll that hits feminist group first post, ... they get the kick.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
200. tbh...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:36 AM
Aug 2014

You are indeed correct and I see the same over in AA. Not at all surprising sea.

Not sure who is really at the bottom of the dung post. We all seem to be damn close. There are three groups that are all entwined here. well at least in some peoples minds. I do believe some are sadly confused. HoF BOG AA. Why is it that they are so confused about who and what we are?

It may be that their vision is not clear and their thinking not sound. TBH some seem to like to stick it to us. They know far better than we do what we know and what we feel and what we have all experienced in our lives.
Bless the goddess someone can set us on the correct path!

For one, TBH, I am tired of the lectures.

Good to see you sea!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
207. totally, tbh, it is that good to see you also. and ya. cant really decide who is bottom of the
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:46 AM
Aug 2014

bottom for sure. after the last couple week of ferguson and other cop killing young black men. totally, tbh. that has hit me hard.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
296. that Op has lots of info. i gotta get into it.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:33 AM
Aug 2014

i am only staying n a couple threads, and they are taking up too much time. gonna run over and read. thank you. powerful event fergusen. lets hope it stays with us a long time, and results in an awakening. i think it has and will.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
335. I had missed that one
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:35 AM
Aug 2014

in my readings of the Ferguson police execution of Michael Brown. Bookmarked. thank you.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
458. It was, freshwest, very powerful. She always is.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 12:06 AM
Aug 2014

And I am going to keep kicking this thread with my comments!

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
281. Tbh
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:43 AM
Aug 2014
My mom always told me when someone says that they are being less than honest the rest of the time. love that you two can have fun with that phrase while still being respectful of those/ the individuals that use it.

Just being honest.

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #200)

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
279. I see clearly
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:40 AM
Aug 2014

I also do NOT have a few people on ignore that I have zero regard for. I live when they 'chastise me' for telling the truth, tell me I'm not helping etc etc.


They don't understand - they are letting me take up space in their brains when they do that - and that's even funnier than what they have actually written.

I look at it like this - When they care enough to send the very best and I get he card and put through the shredder unopened. I don't care enough about the individuals priorities or perspective to care.

I know it's hard to not bite back - but it's amazing what happens when you don't.

I really "get" President Obama now. Better to be perceived as cold than reactive.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
423. A Hallmark moment!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:11 PM
Aug 2014

Love it JAG~

And this...

"They don't understand - they are letting me take up space in their brains when they do that - and that's even funnier than what they have actually written."


Sometimes I bite, at times a nip , there is always laughter. You, MOrpheous and bravenak taught me the beauty of gifs when words fail. They can be powerful!

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
75. Oft times it takes the form of being dismissed or diminished
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:27 PM
Aug 2014

It's incessant, infuriating and damn hard to alert on.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
79. that dismissing, diminishing and flat out insulting is all thru this subthread as we are told there
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:30 PM
Aug 2014

really is not an issue, from a man that does not have others tell him.... all he needs to do is be laid.

awfully manly of him to let us know we are fruitless worrying our little head over nuthin and doing all this exaggeratin' in hysteria i am sure.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
236. And isn't that consistent with the history of treatment of women?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:42 AM
Aug 2014

AFAIK, no one ever moved to another neighborhood just because a female had moved into it. They just left us without a voice or a vote or legal rights and treated us like fragile, uninformed, kindergarteners. Except when they didn't.

Now, they are telling us what should and should not offend us because we don't have the brains to get that straight, either.

Same shit, different century.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
222. Not all that much subtlety even sometimes.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:19 AM
Aug 2014

But, calm down, little lady. Don't be so hysterical and touchy, will ya? It's only the odd troll or two, not long time members with thousands of posts. And, above all, try to have a sense of humor about it. Geesh!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
233. I am sorry to say that I have not been following this as closely as the
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:36 AM
Aug 2014

women who post in the History of Feminism forum regularly. But, I gather from posts that I have seen outside that forum now and again that an admin level decision has been made to let women defend themselves against the sexist crap, which is not the case if you make a racist or homophobic post. But, then, if that defense gets too vigorous, the female gets alerted on.

Although.....I have seen African American DUers posting that they suffer from a similar pattern.

Until now, I have tended to stay out of single issue forums. I tend to go straight to the Latest tab and start posting from there. The single issue forums tend to feel too intense to me and I usually feel as though I have walked into the theater 3/4 of the way into the film and can't catch up.

Literally, within the last few hours, I was thinking that I was being remiss and was thinking of changing my posting habits.

Then, I got to this thread from the Latest tab. Maybe it's a sign from the posting gods that I should indeed spend more time in some of the single issue forums. At least the ones focusing on minority groups and women. In the end, equal rights is my top issue yet my posting habits don't reflect that at all.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
237. So, if trolls say sexist (or racist) crap, and you alert--crickets?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:42 AM
Aug 2014

But if you fight back too strenuously, you get alerted on and it gets dealt with ?

That's insane.

I asked a few questions about GMO (long story) and had someone accuse me of being a shill for Monsanto. I told that person I thought he was rude and then a moderator came on telling me not to engage but alert.

Later tonight, someone accused me of being a--I don't know, a troll? I am a new member and am therefore suspect? Anyhow, I alerted (as I was told to do) and seven anonymous people voted to leave this person's comment up.

So I follow the moderator's suggestion and end up with no help anyway. I can't imagine having to deal with some of the crap I've read about here--rape threats, for example--and then having seven rather silly people say "LEAVE IT", it's no big deal. Do the moderators take any responsibility?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
244. Technically, there are no moderators. There is a board owner, aka Skinner. I am
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:06 AM
Aug 2014

embarrassed to say I've forgotten his real life name. Then there is admin EarlG. I see him posting the most. Then there is a third admin, whose screen name and real life name both escape me now. Then, there are "hosts" for each forum who are neither owners nor admins. Technially, they are not mods, either. Then there is the jury system. I have not paid a lot of attention so far as to exactly how those three things interface and/or overlap, so I cannot be very helpful on that topic.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
249. I would not go as far as to say there is no moderation at all.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:20 AM
Aug 2014

Indeed, sometimes I think there is too much.

I am not a fan of hiding posts because of wording issues, for example; and I have seen jury resullts (though not as my own posts), where a juror says the substance is okay, but the poster should have said it differently.

I recently got a post hidden for not using a sarcasm emote (allegedly). I had thought the post so extreme that adding the emote would have been an insult to the intelligence of DUers, like Jonathan Swift feeling compelled to put a sarcasm emote in A Modest Proposal. But, I was mistaken. Either that, or some jurors were thrilled to get a chance to hide a post of mine. Who knows? Some of the comments made by the jurors were personal to me and had zero to do with the post in question though those jurors knew me and therefore knew I was being sarcastic and did vote not to hide.

I guess the idea of the jury system is that this is a community. And if seven persons, supposedly chosen randomly, don't want your post showing on the board, that should be what governs, not what a mod or board owner thinks It's not all bad, honestly, or I would not still be here myself. But there are pitfalls.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
255. But the seven random jurers know who you are when they look at the quote
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:31 AM
Aug 2014

So their decisions are not necessarily based on the quote but on the person who made it. That's why I said it's a popularity contest.

I have a feeling I don't really belong on this board. This is odd for someone who worked every election from 1989 to 2002. I really thought this would be a good place to talk about election politics, but it really isn't. No one seems to have a good idea of who might run (except for Hillary Clinton, and they seem to hate her without reason). It just seems like people spend their time attacking others and having fights. I'm going to have to look for another board.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
260. The jurors do not necessarily know who you are. For example, some posters
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:47 AM
Aug 2014

hang out in the Lounge almost exclusively. I am almost never in the Lounge. The "Loungers" might have no clue whatever that I am a leftist making a very sarcastic post. But, yes, even in an actual courtroom, jurors are not free of personal opinions.

BTW, I don't think we're even supposed to be discussing the board this way. That is referred to as "meta." There was once a meta forum for purposes of being a home for discussions like this. Apparently, the admins decided it was a mistake. Now, I guess we are supposed to put our "meta" type questions and comments in the administrators forum, where only administrators can reply to them.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
395. except for Hillary Clinton, and they seem to hate her without reason.....
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:38 PM
Aug 2014

Umm....it is not Hillary Clinton Hate. No one except for Conservatives with deep axes to grind, should hate Hillary Clinton. Now supporting her latest quest to run for President, that is debatable among many Progressive Democrats and Independents. Yet, that is not hate and should not be loosely or tightly associated with such a word.

Also, whining about continuously DU is what got your post hidden. Here's the situation. If you don't like DU, you are feel to read and not posts OR not post or read OR disconnect from DU altogether. Yet, whining about how you might leave DU without leaving DU is frankly a waste of time.

Yes, its' hard being new (or with a low post count here). Heck, my post count is not high, however, I read more than I write on most occasions. Either way, I don't complain about the medium. If things get "heated" I take a posting break and come back later.....until then, I READ instead of drafting a post.

These are suggestions. Take them or leave them. Either way Whining About DU endlessly is one way to not only have your posts removed but also your "Handle" blocked from DU altogether.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
267. I think you're getting the wrong impression of DU
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:15 AM
Aug 2014

When you read about rape threats here, they're talking about the problems other sites and bloggers have - the ones described in the opening post in this thread, for example. No, DU does not get people posting rape threats; I've been a moderator before the jury system was started, I've been on the 'Malicious Intruder Removal Team', and I've been on hundreds of juries, and I don't think I've ever seen a rape threat. There is a troll that used to post graphic ways he wanted people to die, but he (or his group) appear not just on DU but on many sites (including right wing ones), and he is normally pre-emptively banned by a variety of methods before he ever gets a chance to send such a message (and, not that it's much comfort, the posts were aimed at both men and women, and weren't sexual in anyway).

I don't know which post you alerted on, but there can be an art to explaining an alert. If you said "I don't know, a troll?" in the alert, then people may have thought "if they don't know if they've been called a troll or not, then it must be harmless", and so voted to leave it.

When DUers complain about misogyny on DU, it's about people who say "women don't have any major problems these days in the USA", or things like that. It's nothing like the problems the OP describes.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
276. Gotta correct you there.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:29 AM
Aug 2014

Seabeyond was threatened with rape. Rape survivors have been ridiculed, called mentally ill - the treatment of LeftyMom was horrendous when she talked about her rape, and we have also had rape survivors driven off this board because of how they were treated. I was told the sexual harassment I have experienced was caused by myself, and failing that, it was because I was mentally ill, and living in a sick world where I and other victims let it happen. We have had at least two posters admit they were rapists.

Some of those were banned, but others were not, and continue to post misogynist things to this day.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
278. Was the man who made the rape threat banned?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:33 AM
Aug 2014

If not, then there needs to be a campaign to get them banned (even if they stopped posting). I'll be active in it, but we'd need details of what they said.

I think I can remember someone admitting to rape, and they were then banned.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
282. In the end, he was.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:48 AM
Aug 2014

As was the whomever sent vile pms to...I can't remember the poster's name, right now, but anyway, she posted it in a thread, and caught a lot of flack for doing so. A lot of the bad ones post for months and 1000s of posts before they are finally banned, creating a decidedly hostile environment here on DU all the while.

As for the rapists, I believe neither of them were banned for being admitted rapists. One i am certain is banned, the other may be banned or may have stopped posting.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
385. Thank you! I was in the middle of something, so I didn't have time to look.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:13 PM
Aug 2014

I appreciate that you provided the info.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
311. not much, to the last question
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:54 AM
Aug 2014

they are pretty committed to the jury system and truly believe it will take care of incivility based on community standards.

But sometimes a jury can be composed of a majority of people who are dishonestly evaluating not incivility but content.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
35. I didn't say that and you know it.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:01 PM
Aug 2014

I did point out that we've had some problems with hit-and-run trolls.....which is true. But the admins have done a damn good job on clamping down on misogyny when it *is* spotted, so give them credit for that, at least.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
81. What do you mean by that? Where's your proof?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:30 PM
Aug 2014

I've been wholeheartedly supportive of women's rights, even before I joined this website. You can't just throw stuff like that out without proof.

You could at least do a Google search on me. Not that hard to do. But please, don't do that anymore.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
85. That was about admin, not you.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:32 PM
Aug 2014

They allow it. I've discussed it with Skinner. He disagrees with them but lets them spew their shit here without fear of banning.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
76. Good luck. Expect to be told what you are thinking.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:27 PM
Aug 2014

The attacks on anyone who dares to step even slightly out of time to the drums of war can be exhausting. Doesn't matter what you say, once there is blood in the water, you become a proxy for everything that happens in the real world.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
228. What a thoroughly inflated opinion you have of yourself.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:27 AM
Aug 2014

I didn't say anything about you, or to you. Go find another someone else to be offended about.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
302. there are no personal insults. you started the "fight" accusing us of something the poster was
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:41 AM
Aug 2014

doing. i called out the false accusation, .... only. what we do on a discussion board. you do not want a response from me, do not accuse me of shit, the poster you replied to is doing. makes it too easy to point out your error.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
418. Well, unless you consider yourself to be a hypocrit bully, I wasn't talking about you.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:22 PM
Aug 2014

I certainly haven't accused you of anything, other than trying to pick a fight with me.

And I'm still not interested to talking to you.

Find someone else to try to intimidate.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
419. I did not accuse you. Haven't said a word to you, other than in response to your attacks
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:25 PM
Aug 2014

I have made no errors. I told someone what to expect if he dared to have an opinion. And you seem to have taken exception with that.

Again, go find someone else to have a fight with.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
449. Wow!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:35 PM
Aug 2014
"What a thoroughly inflated opinion you have of yourself.

I didn't say anything about you, or to you. Go find another someone else to be offended about."


So, seabeyond was just dismissed by you? Really? This is a public message board and you are Pissed someone responded to you in a way you don't like!

Uuuummm. You may want to rethink posting on the internet.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
455. Umm, you may wish to try to pick a fight with some one who cares.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:38 PM
Aug 2014

I offered an opinion to someone who is not you, and not seebeyond. And you want to roll your eyes at me why? I don't care who you are, or who seebeyond is. Seems rather odd, on a thread decrying bullying of a particular type, that you both wish to engage in essentially the same behavior.

Go pick someone else to fight with, I don't care for your tone.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
456. Well actually her name is seabeyond not seebeyond.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:54 PM
Aug 2014

If you have so many issues when people respond to you on a message board, then stop posting. It's a simple as that.

That is only a suggestion, since you seem to have some issues with this. A simple question to you? Why were you "allowed" to respond to said poster and we are not "allowed" to respond to you? See how that works, Thor?Someone on the internet makes a statement and then another responds.

LOL~ You don't care who I am or who sea is, then stop answering our posts.

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #456)

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
463. Well , you don't seem to care about us...
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 12:38 AM
Aug 2014

I can see that with your posts. However you continue to say..."I will post what ever I wish", thank you very little." LOL! Thank you very little, that was cute.

and again...you say...

"I don't care what her name is. I will post what ever I wish, thank you very little.

I have no issues with people posting. I have issues with bullies trying to intimidate people. I offered an opinion to someone who was not you."


So again I ask you. Why are you allowed to speak and comment and we womenz are not. We are the bullies Goddess spare me ~

As for your last paragraph...

"Like I have said to the others, go find somewhere else to satisfy your itch to bully."


"itch"...oh my we are coming closer to the truth here, Yes we are.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
465. I don't know what your problem is, but go find somewhere else to display your agression
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 01:24 AM
Aug 2014

Really odd that you get to define everything, be rude, offer unsolicited comments, in a thread talking of the chilling effect of trolls...

Sounds rather hypocritical.

I have asked you to stop with the derisive tone. You have continued to attack and deride.

You know what? You win. I have better things to do than point out your hypocrisy. Now congratulate yourself, pretend that you aren't doing exactly what the OP is about, and feel like you are somehow better than everyone else who isn't exactly like you.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
485. Unsolicited comments
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:15 PM
Aug 2014

is a strange way to put things on a message board. I think you're mad those wimmenz insist on challenging you. Our comments are unsolicited by you? You are supposed to be in control of who gets to post on a message board?

I bet in real conversation you are one of those who uses your voice loudly to talk over any women who might do other than defer meekly.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
466. this was an interesting exchange with a totally unfamiliar poster. starts insulting all in 1st post
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 01:45 AM
Aug 2014

then is rude, insulting and a ... ya, bully if anyone dare to address being called out by him. odd huh.

Good luck. Expect to be told what you are thinking.

The attacks on anyone who dares to step even slightly out of time to the drums of war can be exhausting. Doesn't matter what you say, once there is blood in the water, you become a proxy for everything that happens in the real world.

Response to seabeyond (Reply #466)

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
96. Unfortunately, I've lived quite a bit of that in the past few months.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:38 PM
Aug 2014

But what can one do, but soldier on? I know where I stand: I stand in favor of women's rights, of social & economic equality, of ending domestic violence, etc.

I may not fit into a conventional mold, true, but I shouldn't have to. Nobody should.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
224. I understand and am in the same boat.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:22 AM
Aug 2014

It's unfortunate that some are so eager to pick a fight with anyone, that they become the same bullies that they are speaking out against. Blind to their hypocrisy, they will attack anyone for saying anything they don't like.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
471. There is no conventional mold.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:08 AM
Aug 2014

Don't feel too bad. The Democratic Party is a big tent, and intra-party politics has always been rough and tumble.

-Laelth

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
230. Why did you post in this thread...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:30 AM
Aug 2014

if the DUers participating in it bother you so?

Because, by insulting a broad group of DUers, it sorta looks like you're the one picking a fight.

Oh well...you have a good night.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
232. You replied to me. You are picking a fight.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:35 AM
Aug 2014

I haven't insulted any broad group of people. I have noted that there is a small, very vocal group of bullies that are total hypocrits.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
294. You do understand that you posted on a public discussion board, right?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:25 AM
Aug 2014

Anyone who is reading the thread is free to respond. If you wanted to say something to only one person, why not send a DU mail?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
414. I'm willing to talk to anyone who isn't intent on bullying and attacking.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:07 PM
Aug 2014

I noted that there is a very vocal group lately that seems to live for harassing anyone who dares to not have their same opinion. And was prompt jumped upon.

I'm entitled to have my own opinion. I can talk to anyone I choose, including NOT talking to anyone I choose.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
480. Yeah who'd have thought?
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:06 PM
Aug 2014

I have uncles and aunts who get together and try to out-talk each other. One uncle gets mad at his younger sister. She responded to something he said, and he looked at her and said, "I wasn't talking to you."

Like how much ruder can a person be. There are five people at a table and you inform one of them that they are not to be included in the conversations?

This strikes as an online manifestation of that.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
461. Correct, and I can respond that I don't care for your rude tone.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 12:24 AM
Aug 2014

And then you can can say that you can say whatever you want, and I can say that you are rude in an endless cycle.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
314. this is a message board, anyone can respond
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:02 AM
Aug 2014
you really expect people to not post because you are not choosing to talk to them? On a message board, it is like you are talking publicly.
 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
416. They can post anything they wish. And I can choose to indicate that I don't wish to talk to bullies
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:10 PM
Aug 2014

You are free to do whatever you wish, but I'm leaning towards not wanting to talk to you either as you seem to wish to belittle with the laughing smilie.

So go find someone else to harass.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
483. It's more bullying to say to someone you aren't including them in the conversation
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:09 PM
Aug 2014

Than to point out to you that it's a public message board and you could get 20 replies. You think that's bullying you? Yet you were not being a bully telling someone "I wasn't talking to you?"

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
468. How can you miss someone if they won't go away? Why choose to keep talking to those they say that
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 01:57 AM
Aug 2014
they choose to NOT talk to, YET they INSIST on talking to them? There is only one answer. Sadly:



sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
475. "How can you miss someone if they won't go away?"
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:36 AM
Aug 2014
Why choose to keep talking to those they say that
they choose to NOT talk to, YET they INSIST on talking to them?



For your statement, freshwest and vortex kitteh!

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
479. The King Canute's of DU often get their feet wet as Vortex Kitteh circles them:
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 01:54 PM
Aug 2014


Their only escape from the impudent masses is using Ignore. This subthread is hilarious!

Although King Canute was not as mad as he's been made out to be:

But was the legendary Viking leader and 11th Century King of England so deluded to really assume he had the powers to turn back the tide?

...According to the story, the king had his chair carried down to the shore and ordered the waves not to break upon his land.

When his orders were ignored, he pronounced:

"Let all the world know that the power of kings is empty and worthless and there is no King worthy of the name save Him by whose will heaven and earth and sea obey eternal laws,"


~ Historia Anglorum (The History of the English People) by chronicler Henry of Huntingdon, who lived within 60 years of the death of Canute (1035 AD) ed D E Greenway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13524677



Kings order DU Kittehs. They only meow in return. Twas always so.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
173. If that's what you truly think and believe, then it's obvious
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:37 AM
Aug 2014

that, one, you're not a woman. And I'd like to know what your definition of "misogyny" truly is, because if you think that it's clamped down on here when it's spotted, then I have an igloo in the tropics to sell you. Then again, your posts are often patronizing and borderline anti-feminist so I guess your post isn't all that surprising.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
297. They want it to be a big issue here. It doesnt matter is the troll quotient is small and get
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:33 AM
Aug 2014

stomped out fast.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
308. it is a big issue here and across the net. sounds like you and a few others are working hard to
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:48 AM
Aug 2014

make it irrelevant even though we see posters here for years, and high post count finally tos'ed as misogynist, women dealing with them daily, factually killing your argument.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
386. However you want to twist it. I am not talking across the net.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:17 PM
Aug 2014

I am talking about DU.

But if it's any consolation, we only have two generations, tops for you to worry about it.
Then there won't be anyone around to worry about misogyny.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
389. no twist. i thought i drew you a straght line. yes. it is a big issue on du. and yes...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:28 PM
Aug 2014

the net is speaking up loudly about this very same issue as on du.

twistin? not even.

But if it's any consolation, we only have two generations, tops for you to worry about it.
Then there won't be anyone around to worry about misogyny.
what would this be, whatever the fug you are talking about?
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
393. i cannot believe, you sit on du, and just told all these people in this thread, lefty....
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:38 PM
Aug 2014
this month's outrage.


we are well aware you think we be silly.....

dont care.

and i have your permission to not worry about it.

smokey nj

(43,853 posts)
397. Yes, 12 years and 20,000 posts. You should edit your post and apologize to seaglass.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:50 PM
Aug 2014
Account status: Posting privileges revoked
Member since: 2002
Number of posts: 20,600
Number of posts, last 90 days: 506
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 453 posts in the last 90 days (90% of total posts)
Favorite group: Ask the Administrators, 3 posts in the last 90 days (1% of total posts)
Last post: Wed Jul 9, 2014, 02:20 AM


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=119344
 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
399. Not according to the original link she sent me.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:53 PM
Aug 2014

Posts hidden by Jury: 1
Total posts: 506
Percentage of posts hidden: 0.2%

Cerridwen

(13,251 posts)
398. Profile
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:51 PM
Aug 2014
About quinnox
My politics are best described as strongly liberal, with a capital L!
Statistics and Information
Account status: Posting privileges revoked
Member since: 2002
Number of posts: 20,600

Number of posts, last 90 days: 506
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 453 posts in the last 90 days (90% of total posts)
Favorite group: Ask the Administrators, 3 posts in the last 90 days (1% of total posts)
Last post: Tue Jul 8, 2014, 11:20 PM

Jury
Willing to serve on Juries: No
Eligible to serve on Juries: Yes
Chance of serving on Juries: 80% (explain)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=119344



seaglass

(8,170 posts)
406. Seriously?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:10 PM
Aug 2014

About quinnox
My politics are best described as strongly liberal, with a capital L!
Statistics and Information
Account status: Posting privileges revoked
Member since: 2002
Number of posts: 20,600

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
408. Hey, It was your link I was following. But I will apologize. But one troll does not make the whole
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:14 PM
Aug 2014

picture.

Most trolls are dealt with swiftly. Some will get through the cracks. But no system is perfect.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
32. No. That's just not true.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:00 PM
Aug 2014

I posted downthread what I personally have had to deal with in terms of woman hating behavior. I'm just one poster. I haven't even had the worst experiences. A friend left because she was getting PM'd rape threats, the PMer is still here.

If you really want to be a feminist ally you need to listen when women are telling you that they feel threatened and unsafe. If you can't do that you're not an ally, let alone a feminist, and you need to stop saying that you are.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
47. I'm sorry that happened to your friend. Truly.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:10 PM
Aug 2014

I realize misogyny does happen on here. It does happen, and I'm all for rooting it out when it is found. But, to be truthful, exaggerating the scope of it, even if with the best of intentions, can end up causing us some pretty serious harm. We know how Republicans like to play the "both sides are equally guilty" fallacy, right? Misogyny is just one of those things they like to use.

BTW, it's perfectly okay to talk about one's personal experiences, and I have never once argued against that. All I'm saying is, we do need to be careful. We need all the support we can get for the 2014 and 2016 elections and if people get the wrong idea, they're going to be scared off of this site, and possibly, the Party altogether.

I'm not saying this because I'm some sort of secret top-and-whiskers Snideley Whiplashesque MRA who takes pleasure in shitting on people. I'm saying this because I am a genuine feminist and I do care about women's issues, and I don't want us all getting any more bad press than we already are.

I know you may strongly disagree with me on a lot of things, but I hope that you can at least try to understand that I'm quite sincere about this.



LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
54. Telling women who feel unwelcome to shut up for strategic reasons isn't okay and it isn't feminist.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:14 PM
Aug 2014

So is telling us that we're exaggerating our concerns.

Look, even if you don't want to look at this like women are actually human beings whose feelings matter, we're still the biggest Democratic voting bloc by far. We should feel safe and welcome and included on a Democratic political website, ffs. Bias against women needs to be in the TOS and I can not even believe that there's any question about that.

Now stop telling women what to think about misogyny. Just stop.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
89. Having our legitimate concerns dismissed and diminished...
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:34 PM
Aug 2014

... is one of THE most common forms of misogynic behavior I've seen here.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
172. TBH, that poster is here to tell you it's all in your head.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:34 AM
Aug 2014

He's here to save elections before the women mess things up, to be honest!

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
176. If that's truly what you thought, then you are sadly mistaken, and didn't get the whole picture.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:54 AM
Aug 2014

No offense, but if you really knew what I was getting at, you wouldn't have said that.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
182. I feel so much better now just knowing you are here to save elections.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:02 AM
Aug 2014

Before it gets really bad, of course, you'll be here to save those elections. Truly.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
184. I try not to be too hard on the more radical elements of this site.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:05 AM
Aug 2014

But I still remember pretty well, what happened in 2010; purity politics(of the political kind) killed us then. And perhaps it'll turn out to be true that maybe I and others didn't need to worry so much as we did. I certainly hope so, actually. We'll see.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
186. you know who pulled dems ass out of the fire in 2012, right? you get that repugs ALWAYS had voters
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:07 AM
Aug 2014

in off years.

do facts matter to you, or is that TOO radical.

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
359. "Purity politics" isn't what killed us. Democrats legislating like Republicans is what killed us.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:33 PM
Aug 2014

Rahm Emanuel as COS?
The monumental fuck-up and cowardice that is the ACA?
Bailing out banks and financially ruining regular folks and
small businesses?

You don't have to be a "purist" to know when politicians are
not bargaining in good faith.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
126. Please, just stop.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:50 PM
Aug 2014

Look, even if you don't want to look at this like women are actually human beings whose feelings matter, we're still the biggest Democratic voting bloc by far. We should feel safe and welcome and included on a Democratic political website, ffs. Bias against women needs to be in the TOS and I can not even believe that there's any question about that.


Are you serious? Yes, I do view women as full human beings whose feelings matter. And I even expressed my support for adding misogyny to the TOS, at least once(I believe that it was in a reply to Gormy Cuss). So, I dunno what else to tell you. But I can tell that this is definitely largely personal, and that's not cool.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
148. people have been asking you all evening/night to stop. please. stop. then you put on the feminist
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:02 AM
Aug 2014

badge

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
55. a sentence to appease then the next sentence... you tell women they exaggerate. that is listening.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:15 PM
Aug 2014
 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
58. You make it sound like I was attacking people, and women as a whole; neither is true.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:16 PM
Aug 2014

That is honestly quite disingenous of you and you should be ashamed of yourself for stooping to that level.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
70. what is disingenious is your contiue insistence you are an ally/feminist yet, continually
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:25 PM
Aug 2014

sabotage at every turn. and NEVER listen to the scores of women that have patiently explained your faux pas. LIKE... saying we exaggerate. good job.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
120. You are being totally disengenuous.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:47 PM
Aug 2014

And if you can't be decent, I'll be placing you on my Ignore List.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
134. Serious question, dude:
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:54 PM
Aug 2014

Do you have Asperger's or some other diagnosable issue?

You don't get it at all, even after dozens of people have told you hundreds of times in no uncertain terms that you're being utterly boorish on this and other issues.

And your response is always "U MAD BRO?"

If there is a medical or psychological issue that prevents you from understanding why you're pissing people off, then I apologize, but the way you're acting might lead some of us to suspect that you don't have the best motives here.

Response to XemaSab (Reply #134)

savannah43

(575 posts)
448. That is what passes for "clever" in many places. Pathetic, isn't it?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:34 PM
Aug 2014

Do not try to get those who think that way to agree with you or even to admit that you have the right to put forth your opinions and beliefs. Blow right by them and put out there what you think is right. It pains me seeing you try to get respect from the knuckle draggers just because they have opinions and can spell. Too bad they are so insecure they cannot reason.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
450. actually, this thread, and i hear you, i think this thread is more about exposure.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:38 PM
Aug 2014

it is good for us to understand others position, so they do not slide. but ya, i hear ya. last night was interesting.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
71. Stop minimizing women's experiences...
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:25 PM
Aug 2014

By telling them it's not a major issue or that they're exaggerating things or they're doing feminism wrong! Just stop. Start by listening, not lecturing if you really consider yourself an ally/feminist.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
380. Both are true
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:38 PM
Aug 2014

It is clear where you stand. It is tedious watching you talk in circles.

Just want to be another voice pointing out that, whether or not you know it or mean it.

*Crystal fucking clear*.

And that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

fishwax

(29,146 posts)
129. are you really suggesting that talking about misogyny on DU might lose elections?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:51 PM
Aug 2014

"BTW, it's perfectly okay to talk about one's personal experiences, and I have never once argued against that. All I'm saying is, we do need to be careful. We need all the support we can get for the 2014 and 2016 elections and if people get the wrong idea, they're going to be scared off of this site, and possibly, the Party altogether. "



Maybe you should think about the idea that you give when, in thread after thread after thread, you tell DU'ers of color that the things they are talking about aren't really racism or that when you tell female DU'ers that they're wrong about misogyny and so on.

 

JaydenD

(294 posts)
177. 'we need to be careful' I think that is meant as the wimmins should shut up
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:54 AM
Aug 2014

and speak only when others tell them it's okay.
Clue Train was missed by that one - in fact he isn't even in the right station in the right town.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
487. Yeah, heck I don't think we have to be that careful
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:37 PM
Aug 2014

Look at what Republicans say via their leaders - doesn't seem to get them in trouble. IOKIYAR and why is that? Maybe we are too careful.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
344. he says that about EVERY issue here
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:55 AM
Aug 2014

he says that he believes climate change, but then worries that we're going to overreact.

he says he believes racism is a problem, but constantly warns us not to actually do anything nor believe that racism has happened in the case that we are talking about.

he says he supports women's equality, but isn't sure that the case that we are talking about has anything to do with mistreatment or unequal treatment of women.

same old crap, different day, different topic.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
295. Are you familiar with the history of the Civil Rights struggle?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:32 AM
Aug 2014

Many moderates of good will argued that blacks should be less militant, should try not to offend, should in essence "suck it up and keep your eyes on the prize." Their views were rejected as contributing to the problem, rather than serving as a solution. This is something one sees in most stuggles of oppressed people, in fact. There is always conflict between the people on the barricades, and those in the background lending support. There is nothing wrong with worrying about tactics or strategy, these are useful questions to address. I do think, however, that the history of racial struggles in this country demonstrates that vocal and nonviolent protest, and confrontation of oppression whenever seen, contribute more to the end (still not in sight, alas) than does acceptance and trying to make the message more palatable to the opposition. And really, when one tells the people on the barricades that their tactics are inadequate, he should not expect to be heard with much sympathy.

It is quite possible to support a cause and fail, for one reason or another, to be supportive of the people fighting for that cause. Now I ask you, if the purpose is to be supportive of persons fighting for a cause, and yet those persons do not feel supported by one's actions or statements, who should be thinking about revising his tactics? Is the purpose to advance the struggle, or earn a gold star for being a nice guy?

-- Mal

 

JaydenD

(294 posts)
170. What? rape threats by PM and that PMer is still here?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:29 AM
Aug 2014

What the burning hell, tell me you made a typo or I can't read

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
195. " A friend left because she was getting PM'd rape threats, the PMer is still here. "
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:28 AM
Aug 2014

Good Lord! That's a criminal matter.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
42. I will tell you my major beef: admin fully and totally allows spewing anti-choice rhetoric here.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:07 PM
Aug 2014

Active posters have called abortion murder. And have for years. That's huge. And misogynistic. Posters here have called women who have had a legal medical procedure (one specifically stated as being supported in the Democratic Party Platform, mind you) murderers.

That is the most blatant example I can give you. People should be banned here for not supporting fundamental positions of the party including women's/reproductive rights and same-sex marriage. Especially at this point in history where we are making progress on one and women's rights that are being HARSHLY attacked in nearly every state.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
56. Well, I'm not happy about that kind of thing either.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:15 PM
Aug 2014

Because I'm pro-choice myself, and have been for years.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got to be careful. I'm all for being vigilant but we can't go too far with things(yes, you did exaggerate a little. No offense meant), or it *will* hurt us in the long run.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
77. so. because YOU, a man is opposed to anti abortion, that is a cause we can GENTLY discuss, SOMETIMES
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:28 PM
Aug 2014

you are not my ally. you do not have my back. you do not represent my voice. you take up a lot of our time telling you... just no, instead of discussing the real stuff. you know how that would be defined, right?

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
180. sea, Honestly, it looks like that poster is a fisherman. He likes to dangle his rod
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:00 AM
Aug 2014

in the water after taking a long walk off a short pier and do some casting and get someone to react and get posts hidden.

Oh, but, TBH, he's also here to save elections. U betcha.



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
183. tbh, a real feminist that sabatoges at every. single. point. in every. post. to be honest. thanks nt
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:03 AM
Aug 2014

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #56)

Response to treestar (Reply #488)

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
69. Yeah, I'm not happy about the anti-abortion stuff myself, to be honest.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:24 PM
Aug 2014

Been pro-choice myself for quite a while now.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
92. Are you kidding? I support women's autonomy 100%.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:36 PM
Aug 2014

I realize you don't like me all that much, but this is a bit much.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
98. are YOU kidding me? you just said it. we are talking OUR body, not yours. we will go as far as WE
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:39 PM
Aug 2014

choose, not how far you TELL US to go.

Well, I'm not happy about that kind of thing either.

Because I'm pro-choice myself, and have been for years.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got to be careful. I'm all for being vigilant but we can't go too far with things(yes, you did exaggerate a little. No offense meant), or it *will* hurt us in the long run.
 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
108. "we will go as far as WE choose, not how far you TELL US to go." Never said or implied otherwise....
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:44 PM
Aug 2014

So I dunno what else to say.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
117. "we can't go too far with things" yes. you said it. you replied to it. i copy and pasted YOUR words
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:46 PM
Aug 2014

treestar

(82,383 posts)
486. I have run into this on other issues
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:32 PM
Aug 2014

So I get what you are saying. We do not want to be the parody Rush Limbaugh makes us out to be on any issue, gender, gay and lesbian, race, etc. We likely think that won't help with the middle/soft center voters who can make or break the election.

I don't think we go that far on DU though. The ones who want to kill all the men or think they are all useless or should only be a certain percentage of the population. Misogyny is pretty insidious. People do it without thinking much about it.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
99. In this very thread
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:39 PM
Aug 2014

You have told women

ACTUAL LITERAL WOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

that they were hurting the cause of feminism by being so outspoken.

How is that supporting women?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
110. we are to follow his lead. he will tell us what to fight. and he will tell us what to say. wtf is
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:45 PM
Aug 2014

that shit.

in ten minutes, this man gave me a headache. i never get headaches.

i love you X. have i told you. you are all that in awesome.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
384. CONCERN TROLLING! DUH!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:57 PM
Aug 2014

See? If wimmin were niiiiiicer and more feeeeeeminine, THEN men would get on board as allies and not be scared off!

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #92)

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
135. Believe what you want. But you are dead wrong.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:54 PM
Aug 2014

What a certain few others may think of me isn't of consequence. Look at my actual actions.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
371. Actually, to be honest, I can't wait til Admins look at your actual actions, to be fair and honest.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:18 PM
Aug 2014

fishwax

(29,146 posts)
438. judging by your actions, you like to dismiss the concerns of people who are more knowledgable and
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:56 PM
Aug 2014

more invested than you on matters of racism and misogyny. That's based on your actions here on the board.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
491. Male allies are welcome
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:55 PM
Aug 2014

and a good thing. But it's natural in a patriarchal society for men to naturally start trying to help women and suggest better ways to do things. Perhaps we are all like this. When on the privileged side, that's the time to be careful. I hope I learned, from DU, not to tell black people how best to handle things and be the one who is careful. That's where you are here. When on the privileged side, tolerate some discomfort. Let that other side do the talking - that's where the problem lies in the first place - they don't get listened to as well. And are attacked for the way they say things (angry black person, shrill woman, etc.).

The hardest thing for white men might be to see this, without having at least some experience being the underdog (though that is possible in some context, so I'm not claiming it can't be done - or that it can't be done without having the experience - we can put ourselves in another's shoes with enough imagination).

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
333. You can extend that to include ...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:35 AM
Aug 2014

just about every African-American on this site do not support or believe a single thing he says on the topic of race; yet, in his mind, it is us that don't understand the topic.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
347. +infinity.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:58 AM
Aug 2014

I am constantly astonished that he has not been banned for trolling each and every oppressed group possible, all the while proclaiming himself a champion of same.

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #333)

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
425. Well how the hell could you
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:32 PM
Aug 2014

possibly understand the topic of race, 1SBM? Oh wait what? Yup you are a black man, yet only the white man knows.

Damn, my forehead is getting bruised on this thread. WhiteMan tells AA the facts of racism in AA. Here Man tells women the frigging facts life as seen through HIS eyes!

Kath1

(4,309 posts)
144. That's a good thing.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:58 PM
Aug 2014

I've seen women here recounting very personal experiences regarding their abortions called murderers. I don't find that acceptable. Not at all.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
156. There's a metric ton of misogyny, racism, etc. that is tolerated by juries.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:10 AM
Aug 2014

If this were a board without a political bent that would be less problematic. Unfortunately, this is allegedly a board for center-left Democrats and that shit just should not fly here, ever.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
191. we have had a poster like this in the past. the same rhythm. all for it and supportive and sabotaged
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:22 AM
Aug 2014

always. the same rhythm and tone. handled threads in this manner.

gotta think, gormy. old timers.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
289. Well, you just got a quick education!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:00 AM
Aug 2014

This place can be crazy, sometimes. But it is an excellent resource and a great opportunity to learn about and discuss progressive issues. Regrettably, there are some issues that trigger amazing firestorms and can make one wonder if he has somehow fallen through the looking glass.

I'd say perserverence will bring you to find the people here who will become invaluable parts of your 'net browsing routine. You've had a really rude welcome to DU, please allow me to give you a real one: welcome to DU.

-- Mal

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
11. Sure, they don't have to lead the way or be cutting edge. they can take their time and just follow
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:42 PM
Aug 2014

the pack and get on the bandwagon ... you know ... later ... no rush. Take your time, guys. Patience, we have it.

RandySF

(57,661 posts)
8. But to ban misogyny ones needs to effectively define it.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:41 PM
Aug 2014

Are we talking about someone going online and typing "shut up, (c-word), or are we talking about someone simply disagreeing with a statement. For example, if we want to talk about parental right in divorce proceedings, is it misogyny to stand up for fathers' rights?

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
14. Father's rights are Women's Rights. Both are subsets of Human Rights.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:43 PM
Aug 2014

Feminists want Father's Rights. I wish redqueen were here to explain it better. Maybe Baines or seabeyond will come along and expand on this topic.

Peace.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
21. Serious question: If somebody suggested DU needed a better rule regarding racist posts,
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:54 PM
Aug 2014

would you suggest that it wasn't totally clear what racism is and maybe concerns were overblown?

We know what misogyny is. And so do you and so do the admins. Stop playing dumb, it's not cute.

RandySF

(57,661 posts)
29. I'm not playing dumb. I know what misogyny is..
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:58 PM
Aug 2014

But I have also seen people on DU pin the label on exactly the kind of example I cited.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
141. I think that is where the problem most often comes in
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:57 PM
Aug 2014

If you are not as upset as someone else on an issue...misogyny!

Someone mentioned racism - I think the same goes for that, someone might see racism in something that someone else does not, does that make that person a racist? Did we invade Iraq because of racism (Some believe so, I tend to think it had more to do with oil, power, and revenge).

When a label is applied endlessly to just about everything it starts to lose it's core meaning and simply becomes something to accuse others of instead of discussing something. Some things have more than one issue attached so which one 'wins' out? In Ferguson you can argue that racism led to the shooting of Mr. Brown - but you could also make the case it was systemic abuse of power by police in this case which, while more often directed at minorities, is also prevalent across the board. Both issues are valid and you could even add sexism in there when you see how cops often treat men different than women (I guess you could say cops display a lot of benevolent sexism). Debating which one had the most impact is one thing, labeling people who don't fully agree it was that one thing but more something else is another.

People panned Obama for a tan suit. Had they done the same with Hillary would have it been because of sexism or just because they didn't like what she wearing? If someone claims it is the former and you the latter and they label you a misogynist is that their evidence that misogyny is prevalent?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
490. Misogyny shows up in these relatively small day to day interactions
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 02:46 PM
Aug 2014

Makes it easy for misogynists to minimize them. Their refusal to "get" the point of benevolent sexism was telling.

There is another thread today about a black man not getting matches from a convenience store owner where he'd give them to whites. That's a small thing too. Yet it shows the insidiousness of racism, how it shows up in little things as symptoms.

There are people who try to minimize that too. But when it comes to women, they are quickest to do it.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
201. Suppose someone said that the Ferguson cop's injuries explained his weird shooting pattern
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:37 AM
Aug 2014

In other words, it wasn't racism that caused him to shoot Michael Brown in the arms but bad vision caused by the eye injury he is alleged to have sustained in the altercation with Brown. (I'm not saying it was, I'm just saying, suppose someone said this.)

Would you say it wasn't a racist statement--that someone might see the statement as racist while others might not?

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
220. An interesting question, how I would answer is
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:16 AM
Aug 2014

*IF* you are simply discussing that aspect in a vacuum from an effort to look at possible reasons the shots were laid out as they are it could certainly be seen as a simple inquiry - one which an investigator at some point might ask (and I would ask back why would the cop shoot so many times in a neighborhood when he can't see well - that does not make me anti-cop).

The problem comes in on nuance and the rest of the discussion (where/how it was asked). I can see, in some cases, where people could go either way on labeling it as racist (that does not mean it is though, again context and what all else was said could change that).



 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
252. OK. Let me hone in a little on the more specific point
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:47 AM
Aug 2014

If someone posted a thread showing the Ferguson cop's shooting pattern and whatever future medical report there is on the cop's condition (and we still haven't seen it, but pretend we have), would the very act of posting that information, without any other embellishment, be perceived as racist in this forum? In other words, the post itself would be seen as acting in opposition to all the other Ferguson and police brutality posts?

I don't know how one would make that call. I also have a feeling that the seven anonymous people who make the decision after an alert is made would vote to HIDE IT and the poster of that OP might be accused of being a right wing troll.


I think there may be some feminist issues that fall along those same lines. For example, if someone posts a thread about post abortion psychological issues some women have, couldn't that also be perceived, in the context of a board in which abortion is a lightening rod subject for women Democrats, as a misogynist (or anti-feminist) post?

Here again, I don't know how one would make the call. But I do think there would be more debate about whether the thread should be hidden, and the poster of the OP might not be considered a troll but a continuing member in good standing.

These are very touchy subjects, I understand. It's just hard to know how misogyny is being perceived. I think everyone agrees that rape threats are not only misogyny but criminal (and should be acted upon as such). However, some of the posters tell me that some of the people who make these threats are not instantly banned. That's a huge concern for me.

However, some posts are not so clear cut. The Spiderwoman post was interesting to read for that reason. I didn't get involved in that because I don't read comics and, quite frankly, was a little afraid of that thread. However, it was pretty clear that the picture, while appearing to be a typical Spiderman type pose, was also overtly sexual in ways that the Spiderman poses were not. The question is whether or not people who saw it differently were being actively misogynist or if they really didn't perceive how the picture could be offensive. Sometimes, that's a rough call. That doesn't take anything away from the feminists pointing out the arched back, the obsession with the butt; it all depends on whether or not you think someone is acting in bad faith or not.

And that takes me back to the Ferguson issue. I get the impression (after three paranoid accusations in one day!) that a newbie posting about the shooting pattern of the Ferguson cop would be immediately perceived as a troll and banned as such. I get the feeling, however, that an anti-choice post or a post arguing that the Spiderwoman pose was not misogynist (by a newbie) might not be perceived in the same way as trolling.

I don't know for sure. But often I think that misogyny is not taken terribly seriously in our world and that message boards reflect that.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
256. ok, my own thoughts:
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:37 AM
Aug 2014

When someone is new to a group it does raise suspicion - right or wrong. If the only discussion you jump into is a contentious one like that and bringing up a report from a rw site (even if you don't know it's origins) people tend to be leery of it. For me, it depends less on where something originated if it is well written/researched/or just plain interesting to talk about (most people don't have the temperature of every single site, and see I literally hundreds a day). I don't think it is always hide worthy (again, depends on context, seen plenty of stuff over on discussionist from whacked out sites, and while I may call such out I generally think it is important to back that up with more than 'consider the source' - unless it is someone I have a posting history with, we have discussed it before, etc).

And that takes me back to the Ferguson issue. I get the impression (after three paranoid accusations in one day!) that a newbie posting about the shooting pattern of the Ferguson cop would be immediately perceived as a troll and banned as such

That may well be - but as I said, some people are leery of people who don't add much more to the entire discussion than one, contentious view when there are a plethora of things (abuse of power, racism, over reaction by cops, etc). I would expect you would find the same sort of thing on a right leaning site when it comes to new posters.


The Spiderwoman post was interesting to read for that reason. I didn't get involved in that because I don't read comics and, quite frankly, was a little afraid of that thread. However, it was pretty clear that the picture, while appearing to be a typical Spiderman type pose, was also overtly sexual in ways that the Spiderman poses were not. The question is whether or not people who saw it differently were being actively misogynist or if they really didn't perceive how the picture could be offensive. Sometimes, that's a rough call. That doesn't take anything away from the feminists pointing out the arched back, the obsession with the butt; it all depends on whether or not you think someone is acting in bad faith or not.

Pointing out you find something to be sexist and telling people who don't fully agree with you that they hate women (misogyny) are two different things. People are gonna disagree, especially when they have seen other comics where males have had the same poses. If someone is critical of the whole Ferguson narrative I don't think it means they hate black people and have no interest in the subject of racism in general. We see things differently for a lot of reasons. Being an x cop myself I see the story in a different way to some extent than others might, a minority who has been harassed by cops has their views, and so on. Discussion and disagreement are part of parcel of many topics.

I was reading Home and Away magazine earlier today and noticed an ad with an elderly white man and white woman, his arm around her - the ad was about a free cell phone for emergency calls, etc. Leafing through the mag I didn't notice any with black people. No apparently gay people (ie, elderly man with his arm around another, etc). Another had a man and his daughter smiling sitting on the tail gate of their mini van, nicely dressed, really nice stuff in the car. It appears the magazine is aimed at older white people who have disposable income and not poor people, minorities (Indians, blacks, and so on). As an aside, on the cell phone ad, I was reminded how the right harps on black people and Obama phones - here a free phone is something you should want, etc.

Now, if someone else looked at the magazine and told me I was over thinking it, that it was targeted to a specific group and based on subscribers it only made sense - I might disagree with them, and could argue over it, but it doesn't mean I would be fair to label them racist/etc.

I don't know for sure. But often I think that misogyny is not taken terribly seriously in our world and that message boards reflect that.

On FB and elsewhere I have seen something we call 'obama derangement syndrome' where no matter what he does someone is mad about it. I'll have friends post the stupidest and often fake crap they find on the net and believe it. If I disagree I am commie loving liberal, hate America, etc, and have lost a few friends over not agreeing with them and being as upset about Obama as they are. There is a lot of sexism in this world, and indeed misogyny (again, along with racism, class-ism, etc). Labeling every single person who does not fully agree with you a woman hater tends to water things down. And then when people have a difference of opinion on the subject with you and you label them that, it simply fuels the whole 'this place is filled with it'. Not everyone who isn't upset with Obama hates America, and not everyone who isn't outraged over a magazine cover hates women and wants to keep them down.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
263. I can see your point about the magazine
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:51 AM
Aug 2014

There is, of course, a real possibility of overreaction. That's why I am careful with these things.

"Labeling every single person who does not fully agree with you a woman hater tends to water things down. And then when people have a difference of opinion on the subject with you and you label them that, it simply fuels the whole 'this place is filled with it'. "

I can see this point and believe that overreaction tends to be counterproductive.

I appreciate your well thought out post. I agree with you about Obama derangement syndrome. There are some people who would blame Obama for the weather.

I do think I may not stay here though. I have been attacked three times since I have been here and nothing has been done about it. The first time, I didn't know you could contact a moderator. The second time, I did alert, and nothing happened. Seven people voted against me. The third time, I could not alert because it was within 24 hours. (A guy on a weird thread accused me of being a "disruptor", but I couldn't alert because of the 24 hour thing.) Meanwhile, I joked with the guy in question that he was high. (Honestly, his post was inscrutable to me. I really didn't think he was coherent.) He alerts on me and my post gets hidden.

There is no fairness here, just a popularity contest. I worked politics for many years. I worked in political campaigns and every election day for 13 years, I was at the polls. To be treated like crap is not my idea of political activism. It's a shame because it's been interesting talking to you, but I now know that I am not DU material. I actually have done political work and find paranoia counterproductive.

Sorry to unload on you. You've been reasonable and interesting. Good luck.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
312. or. you could look at it from a different perspective. we have been talking to each other
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:58 AM
Aug 2014

for years and more. we know each others poisition. the poster you are having conversation with spent a year throwing in da doors, the doors, in every womans issue that came up on gd. it was all about dismissing womens issues. it was all about derailing.

there was an op on benevolent sexism. someone asked what that was. i gave a few examples, holding doors open, pulling out chairs. then the definition of benevolent sexism. a valid academic feminist position. merit for discussion. this poster grabbed onto da doors. women wont let us hold open doors. men threw out 5, 10, 20 ops about the bad ole feminists telling men they would not allow them to hold open doors.

that had nothing to do with one little ole post i made, providing a definition of benevolent sexism.

this poster then proceeded to bring up da doors... for a good year, in every conversation.

so. when that poster makes a statement that we are "overreacting", i get he is trying to define others behavior and maybe it would behoove me to investigate, as he has an agenda, rather than just by his caricature.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
303. And some would say the tan suit criticism was part of a pattern of racist treatment of the POTUS
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:41 AM
Aug 2014

even though the comment in isolation seems neutral on race. However, when the critics are the same group who criticize him for everything, considering bigotry as a motivation is not only prudent but likely to be true.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
22. True, though Tuesday's right.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:54 PM
Aug 2014

Many of us feminists actually do stand up for men who are being bullied as well.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
139. oh. you have slapped us upside the face with clue after clue after clue. not only is the puzzle
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:55 PM
Aug 2014

complete it is hanging on the damn wall for all to clearly see.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
274. And someone alerted this morning
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:23 AM
Aug 2014




On Sat Aug 30, 2014, 07:57 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

well, you have taken your feminist activism to a whole new level, havent you....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5463721

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S
COMMENTS



why is she bulling this poster?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:18 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ridiculous alert.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a stupid comment, but it's not "bullying."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: She isn't bullying the poster. She gave a simple response in the context of the thread. There is no personal attack here - and she has not gone outside of community standards.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
319. i imagine jury was busy al night long and will be thru out the day. i had lots of posts to alert on
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:12 AM
Aug 2014

in this thread. just need four that do not like me. easy peasy.

thanks just

ALWAYS wonderful seeing you

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
323. I was shocked at the alert
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:19 AM
Aug 2014

It truly was silly. Besides - I believe in letting people fight their WH battles. That was no Joe In Distress

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
24. it was defined, explained, examples given and IMPLEMENTED on du2. it CAN be done.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:56 PM
Aug 2014

they ALREADY have a blueprint.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
30. Just like misogyny, father's rights needs defining here.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:00 PM
Aug 2014

For the most part, I wouldn't see assuming that the mother automatically gets sole or primary custody as a feminist stance. In fact, it seems fairly sexist. If possible, joint custody. However, if there is abuse (of the mother or children) that changes things, and the abusive spouse/parent should absolutely have custody monitored/restricted and both parents have financial responsibilities for the children they brought into the world.

Is standing up for father's rights misogynistic? No. Is assuming women are all money-grubbing, evil creatures out to ruin men's lives? (Which unfortunately what these discussions devolve into?) Hell yes.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
316. Fathers have equal rights and always have
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:05 AM
Aug 2014

That's like worrying about "white rights." This is a false interpretation of family law used to put women down. It has been a long time since judges awarded custody of small children to mothers just because they were the mothers and at that point in history men were fine with it, as they thought that was the women's job too.

The laws now are equal and there is more and more shared custody.

Paying child support is not a violation of anyone's rights. Both sides are judged equally based on their income and the custodial parent supports the children too, as their income is reflected in the calculation.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
15. judging from the number of hof-worthy posts in gd,
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:43 PM
Aug 2014

And all of the recs they get, they must not be THAT chilling

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
16. I imagine that potential troublemakers are being careful to avoid the thread
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:46 PM
Aug 2014

However, let's see what happens.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
17. Do you want an itemized list of the abuse women on DU have to deal with?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:51 PM
Aug 2014

Personally I've had the following:
More creepy PMs than I can count
Some weirdo I had on ignore decided to speculate about my vagina because he was mad at my boyfriend
Some other weirdo decided to go on for hours about how I need therapy because I posted two sentences about the mentality of the man who raped me

That is not creating a woman friendly environment. That some women continue to post and assert ourselves does not make the current situation okay. It just means that we're badasses and you SHOULD NOT FUCK WITH US.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
50. Most of them are trolls, and they're a small minority.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:12 PM
Aug 2014

But they can be pretty vocal at times, and we have had a few problems with deep-cover trolls. But again, most people on DU are genuinely egalitarian, and we hope you'll stay.

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #50)

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
133. Glad to help.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:54 PM
Aug 2014

This place has been a bit of a minefield this past year or so, but perhaps we'll get over it at some point soon.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
351. Stop being concerned everytime one of us posts that we should try to change things
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:07 PM
Aug 2014

what the hell?

if you really agree with us, as you say you do, stop telling us to not take action.

it's getting old.

it makes it sound like you want to claim credit for agreeing with us, but only for the purpose of ingratiating yourself to us or others here in order to convince us not to take action on a range of issues.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
310. The ones who Lefty Mom referenced were mostly trolls? How do you know that?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:50 AM
Aug 2014

I witnessed one of the events and trust me, that DUer wasn't a troll at all. In her own words, these were mostly long time DUers.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
328. the point being, what women say, what women experience is irrelevant. average will tell us how it
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:23 AM
Aug 2014

is. that is his stance thru out the thread. we seldom have a poster make himself so clear.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
167. Well I don't expect much from Republicans except misogyny
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:27 AM
Aug 2014

I do expect a little more from Democrats.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
62. Why don't you alert on those posts/PM's?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:17 PM
Aug 2014

I don't mean to sound obtuse, but I would think those types of posts wouldn't be tolerated here.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
67. I know after 154 posts you're an expert on DU, but I did.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:22 PM
Aug 2014

The poster who wanted to speculate about my vag wasn't banned. My boyfriend was for replying in some admittedly weapons grade profanity.

The abusive PMers weren't banned for that, though most of them were banned later for other terrible behavior.

The guy who suggested that I was "playing the victim" for talking about my rapist's mental state was banned, but only after an enormous uproar and what seemed half the internet messaging the admins about it, and after literally dozens of posts to that effect made it past juries.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
87. I'm trying to understand the influx OPs of claims of misogynistic posts.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:33 PM
Aug 2014

I haven't seen a problem here, and the problems that do arise, the posts get hidden or the posters get banned.

No need for snark.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
128. Most people here seem nice and understanding.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:51 PM
Aug 2014

I haven't seen any problems with rampant misogyny. I saw a bad post in a thread yesterday, but it was taken care of swiftly.

Seems like misogynistic posts are rightfully not tolerated here.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
146. as i said, i have read your posts, listened to your position. i do not have faith, you would
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:00 AM
Aug 2014

recognize either sexism or misogyny. that simple. so you telling me you do not see it here, surprises me not. i bet you do not see it.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
151. So provide examples of it occurring here.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:05 AM
Aug 2014

I saw two examples of it in a goodbye thread and they were hidden. One poster was banned.

So...how is misogyny supported here? Here's the thing. People who make assertions about anything have to provide the proof of it.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
155. "People who make assertions about anything have to provide the proof of it." THIS.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:10 AM
Aug 2014

And yes, to be fair to her, it may be true that enforcement of the rules may not be perfect, and that we may sometimes fall short. But that is not at all the same as claiming that misogyny is actually supported on this site. Because it's not.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
158. I agree.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:14 AM
Aug 2014

The problems I have seen here when it comes to misogynistic posts gets taken care of. On one of my comic forums, I serve as a moderator and delete any sexist post. This site seems to do a good job of that as well.

I like it here and I like that it feels like a welcoming group that doesn't allow intolerance and bigotry. It doesn't look like there's a rampant problem of misogyny that some have claimed.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
160. To be fair, there are a few folks here who genuinely have had some bad experiences.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:18 AM
Aug 2014

Honestly, a lot of this does seem to be based in frustration over what they honestly perceive as a lack of action. And, on that note, we have had a few issues where we have fallen short.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
168. so, what does the man do. tell me i am not being healthy. dangerously close to mentally damaged.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:27 AM
Aug 2014

fuck that shit. he is playing a game. thru out the whole thread. for months. i did not even notice the dude, but was sure on a lot of others radar. so if, you are sincere. this would be an example of a long time dealing, for an eventual.

the tells are there.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
197. Honestly, honestly, honestly?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:33 AM
Aug 2014

To be fair, honestly, you could honestly be honestly mistaken, to be fair.



Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
258. What was funny about it? I thought it was as lame as it gets
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:41 AM
Aug 2014

And I'm a master at the art of clever snark, so when I say something's fallen flat, it's flatter than a can of Sprite that's been left open for two weeks...

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
320. Are you familiar with the posts of the person she replied to?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:13 AM
Aug 2014

Because he uses all those words/phrases - frequently - to explain to women and people of color why they're wrong about misogyny, racism, and privilege.

IMO, he writes that way in an attempt to soften his obvious trolling on those issues.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
208. Not a fan of your own work I see.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:48 AM
Aug 2014

If there was money to be made recycling words, you'd be rolling in dough.

Or you could get some of that free money that several people have offered you. Heck, put me down for $20.



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
162. well bully for you two boys, deciding there is no problem at all. women, we are all being silly and
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:20 AM
Aug 2014

hysterical. i guess we are done here.

thanks dudes. for fixing the problem.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
159. a longtime poster told a feminist she need to get laid. mens group have said we are mentally damaged
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:16 AM
Aug 2014

often. i have been called every standard name, had OP;s attacking me specifically and hof, and told my old uterus couldnt birth two boys. a whole thread of the men insulting me. host did nothing, until i was told abotu the OP and griped. he is still here. after two posts being hidden throwing cum all over me in his posts, flagged, still here. i have had threatening pms and they later got tosed for other stuff. i have been called a bitch more times, and when alerted, jurors call me a bitch, let it stand. (just a very few, FEW, of my many personal experiences).

we have men telling us tone
men telling us what we should discuss
men telling us we are hurting feminism, the party
men telling us a whole lot of shit.
telling us hobby lobby is not important.
men telling us how women dress matter.
men telling us they are the feminists and we are not.
men putting up an ugly dworkin picture to shame is in our ugliness.

on and on and on.

we had a couple women share personal experience and men and a woman call them liars. tell them to go get medical help.

on and on and on.

jury lets it stand.

i had one little turd create a little porn scenerio of rape for me.

these people are obvious trolls. they stay on months and months and years... then kicked off cause hey, lookie. a misogynist. yet we deal with them daily. then they pop up again with another name

on the other side, we have jurors that say... dont have to hide sexism, it is not in the tos

this is such a small small sample. and only my experience. i doubt there will be much of an impression at all.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
161. Those types of posts aren't tolerated on my boards.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:19 AM
Aug 2014

They shouldn't be tolerated here either. I guess just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Thank you for providing examples. I'm sorry you had to deal with that crap.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
243. Sweet goddess save us.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:59 AM
Aug 2014

I am so sorry sea. Your post makes me cry. And no. For those tag along peeps, that does not make me weak. It shows my humanity that some here seem to know nothing about!

For Christ sake they need to get a frigging life. Yes sea, I did that once here. I bared my soul about abuse, I got a hell of a lot of support and I also had the menz step in and say it was about them.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
181. Too many to list
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:00 AM
Aug 2014

But here, for me, is a prime example: the thread "Why I suspect reaction to Hobby Lobby is somewhat hair-on-fire". Feel free to do a search and read for yourself.

REP

(21,691 posts)
102. Oh thank god a man showed up to tell you what to do!!1!
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:40 PM
Aug 2014

I was getting worried for you, all alone by yourself.

REP

(21,691 posts)
109. I hope he tells me how to be a woman, period. I'm afraid I'm doing it wrong.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:44 PM
Aug 2014

I think things and say them out loud sometimes.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
113. You told me DU doesn't have a misogyny problem. I cited specific examples that have happened to me.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:45 PM
Aug 2014

You told me again that DU doesn't have a misogyny problem.

Either you have a reading problem, you're not arguing in good faith, or you have a real problem absorbing women's experiences. Whichever it is, knock it off.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
118. So the problems were resolved.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:47 PM
Aug 2014

Okay. Wasn't that what you wanted?

So what's with the continued snark?

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
125. That is literally not what I typed.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:50 PM
Aug 2014

We're done here.

You're clearly either arguing in bad faith or just plain thick, and I'm missing my Giants waxing the Brewers to reply to you. This subthread is an entirely inferior and less enjoyable waste of my baseball watching time.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
143. Don't worry about it.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:58 PM
Aug 2014

Chances are, you wouldn't have gotten thru, anyway. At this point, I'm about done trying to conversate myself.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
368. Yes.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:14 PM
Aug 2014

DU is worse when it comes to misogynistic posts than such sites as Discussionist, Fark (before the new policies), youtube, yahoo, Facebook, Twitter, men's health, ask men, etc. Etc. If you believe that, well, I have a bridge to sell you in North Dakota.

ancianita

(35,813 posts)
202. Ripped apart? Really. It's not fair of you to expect an instant laundry list when you haven't made
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:37 AM
Aug 2014

the patient effort of lurking for a while -- say, a few months. That's what people usually do who want to get some of the posting dynamics of forums.

Your claim reveals more of a presumption of service from you than evidence of any meanness from long time posters. Just make some effort to read lots of threads for a while. Answer and give at least as much as you ask and take. And when someone rushes upstairs to tell you the basement's on fire, you might not be so quick to say, "No, can't be; I don't smell anything; I'm cozy here; that's just not true; prove it!"

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
39. The history of feminism is a protected group for feminists to discuss issues
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:05 PM
Aug 2014

But a quick perusal of gd shows that a few posters prefer to post triggers and such in gd, and that those posts usually get many recs. Which kind of refutes the premise of this op

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
45. Triggers? Not sure what you mean here.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:08 PM
Aug 2014

Feminist issues are not in a lockbox, separate from society at large.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
53. Could you explain what you mean by "triggers?"
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:13 PM
Aug 2014

Because what I'm getting from your post is that, in your opinion, posts addressing women's' issues either
A: should be posted in HoF and not GD, or
B: if such posts in GD receive a lot of recs, that indicates that misogyny doesn't have negative effects here.

Can you clarify?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
132. he really is not saying triggers, as in what pisses me off, like the sport commentator and others
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:53 PM
Aug 2014

talk about women just being nice not to trigger her man to kick her ass?

tell me, that is not the mentality he implied.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
122. Are you saying you're an eavesdropper on HoF?
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:49 PM
Aug 2014

Interesting. I post there quite often and have never seen any contributions from you; neither have I spotted your participation at the Women's Rights & Issues group, where I also post quite often. I've never considered that participation in either group disqualifies anyone from posting or hosting elsewhere on DU, or from bringing particularly interesting topics that are being discussed there to a larger forum such as GD.

It seems to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" where HoF is concerned. Some seem to resent the very existence of HoF but when HoF topics and posters engage the larger audiences in GD and elsewhere, they get slammed for not keeping their conversations to themselves. Which shall it be?

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
137. Nope, doesn't refute the OP at all.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 11:55 PM
Aug 2014

Posting topics with trigger warnings is wholly different from throwing down sexist or misogynist horseshit and claiming that those offended are the problem.
Wanna know how common that is here? Rinse, lather, repeat.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
190. "But a quick perusal of gd shows that a few posters prefer to post triggers" I've seen that myself.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:19 AM
Aug 2014

Nothing wrong with discussion, mind you, but when it devolves into personal attacks on people, just over some minor disagreements, it can all just go to hell(and, I'll admit, I do tend to be pretty inclined to bite back a lotta times). And it's even worse if said OP was intended to be controversial and offensive.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
476. I think the problem is that DU on the whole has gotten away from it original purpose
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 09:43 AM
Aug 2014

Greatest page is mostly vanity posts, rehashes of the same old issues, duplicates, Tiger Beat items, cheers for republican policies like ACA, deficit reduction, charter schools, and so forth. As an example. BB's call-out, consisting of a list of symptoms of misogyny in the internet universe, got the anticipated hundreds of rec's, hundreds of replies, and lingered for days while contributing almost nothing of substance to the progress of man. Then of course Laelth's careful, polite response was locked as being a call-out.

The noise is so prevalent and loud that almost no signal gets through any more. I think the disarray of the site has tracked the disarray of the party apparatchik. As the DC Dems stray farther and farther from what made the party great in the 20th century, DU strays farther from its original usefulness as well.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
478. Baines answered a question asked her, not a call out. and no. probably not a lot of substance
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 01:45 PM
Aug 2014

for progress of man, but certain was for the progress of women.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
18. "It's a silencing tactic, and it's powerful." and every one of us recognize, and reject.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:53 PM
Aug 2014

we have some powerfully awesome strong women on this sit and a lot of men backing us.

 

Iron Man

(183 posts)
27. I'm lost.
Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:58 PM
Aug 2014

Many are saying this site is an MRA haven, but I have yet to see any MRAs here, and those who post MRA-type posts get banned.

Now, I admit, I'm new here but I've read many threads and never saw any MRA-type posts.

Cite examples of MRA behavior with links.

As far as internet discussion forums go, this one is really damn good at not allowing MRA posts here.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
362. and on both issues
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:44 PM
Aug 2014

the same 'usual suspects' show up to deflect, distract and end up the offended victims. Really transparent behavior from those suspects always.

Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #157)

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
193. Hey, sea...maybe it's better not to feed him...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:24 AM
Aug 2014

It's pretty clear he's trying to bait you into getting a hidden post.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
194. i know he has bugged others, but i pretty much ignored him. but... all the posts tonight,
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:27 AM
Aug 2014

he sure is feeling familiar. the rhythm and tone. and ya. he is. especially the.... it is not healthy for you. whatever.

night cyber....

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
203. Nah, Sea. Don't lie: you tried baiting me all night, hoping I'd prove you right.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:39 AM
Aug 2014

Unfortunately for you, I wasn't gonna fall for your little trap. And honestly, now I'm starting to understand why the Admins put you on an involuntary vacation earlier this summer.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
199. It's obvious who's been doing the real baiting around here, and it sure as hell wasn't me.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:36 AM
Aug 2014

Honestly, I'd wish that maybe you'd get a darn clue already.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
192. Every person is an expert in their own experience.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:23 AM
Aug 2014

I'll thank you to take a break from this thread and maybe post a recipe in the scooter group.

stage left

(2,934 posts)
375. Please stopping doing this.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:32 PM
Aug 2014

To be honest, it's not healthy. To be honest, I really hate the phrase "to be honest."

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
364. not really
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:51 PM
Aug 2014

these two issues of misogyny and racism are generally equal in intent and effect on large numbers of people and have always been closely tied to the male(usually white and in the case of misogyny not always) feeling threatened by people asserting their right to be seen as equal to any other human on this little dirt ball of grief. Just my take.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
352. I think the word missing there is 'blatant'.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:08 PM
Aug 2014

Or rather that as a society, we're finally getting a bit better at recognizing racism than we still are misogyny. Obviously those directly affected see things far more easily, but even white people are getting a bit better at spotting racial bigotry that isn't as blatant as white hoods and burning crosses.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
147. bulletin boards
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:01 AM
Aug 2014

you get the same thing on 'baby boards.' I used to post on a website for expectant mothers and the trolling, bullying and harassment was rampant!

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
253. around here there was a refusal to add the words sexism and
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:57 AM
Aug 2014

Misogyny to the TOS.

DU went one way and it appears many other sites will make safe spaces for women to post and root it out.

Not as cutting edge as they thought. The cutting edge is doing something about it not washing ones hands of it.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
270. Yep yep.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:44 AM
Aug 2014

It's sad that this place could have taken the lead on this issue. Now other Internet discussion businesses are reforming their practices, which will attract more posters.

Maybe the admins here might want to at least consider their bottom line, even if they are deaf to the moral argument.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
299. That could easily have been done when the doors of Discussionist were opened. Now there are two
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:36 AM
Aug 2014

spaces owned by the admins where misogynists can feel welcome.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
366. I went there for a while
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:03 PM
Aug 2014

and had to leave because of the blatant out and out racism and misogyny. I found my disgust for the racist culture in America growing exponentially. Disgusting yet eye opening place. That's why wilson and zimmerman fans don't surprise me. There are plenty out there and 'discussionist' proved it to me. To see misogyny and racism here is sad.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
411. But sexism and misogyny are already covered by the TOS
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:33 PM
Aug 2014

as I think was pointed out at the time:

Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic.


Sexism and misogyny are bigotry based on gender. Other words that describe specific bigotries, such as "homophobia" or "racism" (apart from explaining something about conspiracy theories, for the latter) don't appear in the TOS either - because they too are covered in that sentence.

Suggesting that DU has gone a different way from sites that make safe spaces for women is silly. DU has always those rules.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
415. I cannot think of something that would be bigoted about sex without also being bigoted about gender
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:09 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

(and gender identity is also in the list, so if there were someone who wanted to be bigoted and the difference between sex and gender, I think they're already covered by the TOS). Can you give an example?

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
424. gender bias and sexism and misogyny are different things.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:19 PM
Aug 2014

One is based upon sex, the other based upon gender.

Many feminists feel that boxing them into a gender role, in itself is sexist. Understand?

However there is gender bias when people who of a certain sex don't fit the gender society would usually subscribe to them based on their biological sex or persons who are transsexual/transgendered for example. That doesn't mean that trans persons don't experience sexism and misogyny as well.

Sexism and misogyny is bias/bigotry/hate based upon sex.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
426. But I still can't think of something that is bigoted concerning sex that isn't also bigoted
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:35 PM
Aug 2014

concerning gender. As you say, boxing someone into a gender role in itself is sexist. They overlap. I can see that something can be bigoted about gender without necessarily being bigoted about sex (since gender is sociological), but not the other way round.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
427. You can't. You don't think there is hatred/bigotry of women just based upon them being female?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:37 PM
Aug 2014

It has to be about their gender as well?

Please rethink that.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
428. That is my understanding of 'gender', yes. Hatred of someone because they're female
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:40 PM
Aug 2014

is bigotry based on gender.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
432. Female sex has nothing to do with gender.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:49 PM
Aug 2014

I don't know how much simpler I can put this.

Many women NEVER feel discriminated against because of their gender, but sure as hell do feel discriminated against based on their sex. Why because they assume the role society has given them and there is no issue based on gender for them to confront.

When feminists speak of misogyny/sexism, they are basing it upon sex not gender.

I will say though that many women are discriminated based on their gender. But even females who reject the feminine gender, can be discriminated against based on their sex.

Women do experience both, but they are not the same.

edit to add to above.

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
275. Have we seen what the impact is on Fark?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:27 AM
Aug 2014

I know there was the announcement, but what was the actual execution like? What changes did they put into place? What was the effect in the first couple of weeks? I'm not on Fark, have no interest in it, but has anyone written what the change has resulted in? I'd love to know.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
405. Good to see you too, sea.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:06 PM
Aug 2014

I just cited the article to show that the world hasn't ended at Fark because they put some standards in place. I'll copy and paste the section I was thinking of:

"Curtis tells us, however, that so far the response has been “nothing but positive,” and that there has been no uptick in commenters testing Fark’s new policy.

“It’s been surprisingly smooth,” he says.

As a story at Vice recently put it, Fark banning misogyny actually “facilitates free speech,” because it means women can be more comfortable expressing their thoughts without worrying about the dregs of the Internet threatening to rape them or otherwise harass them.

Fark’s move could indeed provide inspiration for other online environments to take similar action, and that’s one of the reasons the site has gotten some national news coverage for it.

Gawker also recently cracked down on users posting “rape GIFs” on its Jezebel site, though only after Jezebel called out the company itself in a blog post. This story also put the spotlight on the Internet’s rampant misogyny.

These moves from Fark and Gawker aren’t going to solve the whole problem, but they’re certainly positive moves in a better direction. Any other sites inspired to follow suit will just serve as additional steps."

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
402. Thank you
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:00 PM
Aug 2014

That's what I wanted to see, to see what the admins view of how it was implemented, the way it was received and the kinds of changes that it's making to the discourse there.

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
403. Also
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:04 PM
Aug 2014

I started an Ask the Admin thread using this link to the admins to start a discourse on adopting similar policies that will work within the DU framework. Definitely a good read and shows what the results are from the first month(?) or so of it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12596687

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
322. omg. what would be the impact of a site not allowing men to be misogynist trolls creating a hostile
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:18 AM
Aug 2014

environment for women.

ya

more important issues i tell you

rollin eyes... lol cause i am too lazy to get the little smilie

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
401. Seriously?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:59 PM
Aug 2014

I was asking how it worked out, what the reaction was and if it HAS turned into a better environment?

The way you responded basically says that you completely misinterpreted whatever tone there was. It was a QUESTION about how implementing that policy has turned out. Isn't THAT worth discussing? If we're going to hold it up as a model, it's worth finding out how it has been implemented, unfolded, received and what changes they've made.

But no, you basically attack me. Seriously?

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
174. Trolling Is At An All Time High Here On DU It Sure Seems...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:38 AM
Aug 2014

there are constantly so many threads criticizing Democrats while not holding Republicans accountable for the mess they are responsible for...

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
179. Having been at the receiving end of so much of that myself.....I can attest to that!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:58 AM
Aug 2014

It's a damn shame that we've had so many problems on DU. What happened to this place, huh? We've been tearing each other down over purity contests and boot-kissing, while the economy is still struggling, the Repiglicons are trying to take away women's rights, and make it harder for People of Color and poor people to vote, etc....and some people are busy playing the "you're not on my side if you don't agree with everything I say, unquestioningly" card. I remember the controversies we had during the 2012 elections, but we managed to stick together. Why are we falling apart now? Such a damn shame, indeed.

 

JaydenD

(294 posts)
241. Let's make some guesses why...
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:55 AM
Aug 2014

1. There are the ads, yeh yeh I know if money is paid you won't see them and the problems just miraculously all go away - the see no evil thing. Money solves everything. Ads that are very anti-Democratic. So if some rwbaggerass passer by comes to look see and sees the ads, hey, looks like this is my kind of place! I have to wonder if RW sites allow LW ads on their property and what the rabble would think of that if it was explained away like it is here.

2. Discussionist, the crazy uncle in the attic might have come to visit the parent DU and lay turds on the living room rug. Hey, ca-ching is all that matters. All we have to do is teach them to be better people, like feminists here have to teach myogynists the error of their ways. Okay class, your next assignment is to teach homophobes and racists the error of Their ways. Nope, doesn't quite work that way, does it, for other isms.

3. Fill in the blanks

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
329. i have thought about this. i have spent time at disc, not a lot. for the same owner to be tied
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:28 AM
Aug 2014

to these two sites, allowing one free reign on the "isms" tells posters that they are not really adamant about addressing this issue. if they can stomach it there, they can stomach it here, as conversation, education, discussion. i feel it emboldens the bigots wth acceptance. not to mention a verbal statement that sexism will not be placed in tos.

i think the message is clear.

i also think administration is saying... they oppose the "isms" as good liberal men.

two countering positions.

that is why we get some kicked off eventually. and that is why we have so many continually popping up.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
355. Who is 'not holding Republicans accountable'?
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:11 PM
Aug 2014

Everyone on here knows what total F-ups Republicans in office are. Just because they're not bothering to constantly mention that when they're posting about Democrats who screw up doesn't mean Republicans are 'being given a pass' or any such nonsense.

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
462. I Agree But When A Thread About A Corrupt Republican is Posted, It gets maybe 5 replies...
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 12:34 AM
Aug 2014

yet the minute someone say something about Hillary Clinton you get 500 replies most making comment about the being broke comment she made...

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
469. Corrupt Republican = Dog Bites Man story.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 08:21 AM
Aug 2014

It's not surprising or new, so everyone shrugs.

If Hillary keeps on being oblivious to the plight of most Americans, we'll get to the point where she's 'Dog bites man' too.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
185. It's a combo of (IMHO)
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 01:05 AM
Aug 2014

1) a bunch of formerly priviledged people ever more eager to hit people, not thinking that maybe the people they should be angry at are the some rich idiots in suits that have been leading them by the nose since well before 1776.

2) said powers that be realzing that the info game is key, and that they need to pay trolls to stir the pot.

3) the fact that for many people, the internet is where you go toe scape from society. I love the fact that you can explore things you never would on your own, that I can read papers and talk to poeple I would not have known, but the illusion that you do not have to be civil just because you are not within punchign distance of someone HAS TO STOP.

Amd yes, it is happening everywhere, but yes, we can, should and will hold DU to a higher standard since if so many LIBERALS, note I said LIBERALS did not give skinner money, there would not be a DU, or that awful site that rhymes with "reductionist."

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
269. The worst is when they hide behind the mantle of feminism
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:42 AM
Aug 2014

to promote their misogyny. That is particularly cynical and offensive.

betsuni

(25,136 posts)
271. It's diabolical
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 07:16 AM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:15 AM - Edit history (1)

A wolf in sheep's clothing saying, "No, I'm a sheep, have been for years. I'm a dedicated sheep. I might not fit the conventional mold for a sheep, but I assure you I'm quite sincere and if you think otherwise you are sadly mistake and have gone off the rails and are disingenuous on top of that. Did I mention hysterical? (Checks list.) That would be a horrible thing to say to a sheep, any sheep. We sheep need all the support we can get for the upcoming elections and we don't want to drive away any other sheep by discussing wolves. Stop, just stop, it's not healthy."

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
277. While also making a point of denying the existence of sexism and misogyny
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:31 AM
Aug 2014

in a particular or general context, as they side with misogynists and making sure to attack other feminists for failing to devote themselves to issues that make women more sexually available to men.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
321. As one of them pointed out, we are trying to chase shadows. That one is a particularly evil one
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:14 AM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:10 PM - Edit history (1)

and it is no coincidence that this smilie ----> <---- is used a lot by the culprits.

It is like a bat signal or something for them.

They think they are being cute and they get away with it all because they know the Admin will not do anything so, in essence they have the full backing of the admin to create havoc on this site.

It is beyond evil at this point.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
330. yes, using passive aggressive behavior and insults, while positioning themselves as fair and
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:30 AM
Aug 2014

balanced.

obvious to some. not to those not carefully following along. and that is what they count on.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
291. DU isn't Fark
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:13 AM
Aug 2014

Over and over, the same few posters label people who support feminist goals and equality as misogynistic trolls simply because they express a lack of outraged urgency over issues of eye rape, sexual fetishes of S&M/B&D, pornography in general, slut shaming and other behaviors that barely register on other people's radar.

The DU people about which some posters are complaining would never even register on the fark.com misogyny radar.

While there may be some people here with outdated attitudes regarding women's issues, they are mild and require a response from the DU admins about as much as they should respond to lacto-ovo vegetarians who decline to embrace the full-blown vegan lifestyle. Somehow I suspect the issue at fark.com is much-much worse, along the same level as the racist comments on the wilson crowd funding effort that prompted the administrators on the facebook page to end commenting.

It is fine to be the star of the drama of your life, but why do some people have to be the star of the drama of everyone else's life? Sometimes folks just have to have their outrage, and if other's don't share it, then that just adds to their outrage.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
301. No,it's not Fark.Fark is open to all political persuasions unlike DU which has strict
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 10:40 AM
Aug 2014

rules as to who can post here which does not include anybody outside of the democratic spectrum.I have to laugh at some who try to paint feminist issues as faux outrage "that barely register on other people's radar" as if they're not issues regularly discussed on other mainstream feminist websites.Please,educate me,which feminist issue do you think is a creation of DU feminists ?

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
363. Your response shows my point
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 12:50 PM
Aug 2014

Because I expressed a lack of outraged urgency over your yet-to-be-named issue (though I did give examples of "eye rape, sexual fetishes of S&M/B&D, pornography in general, slut shaming" as examples of topics for faux outrage), you respond as if I am against feminism.

Did you even read my post? I was saying that the misogynistic comments on Fark.com are probably obvious examples of misogyny, but that "the same few posters" on DU attack fellow feminists just because they don't share the same level of outrage for certain issues (see above) that many feminists see as something other than misogyny.

It's exactly like a DUer attacking a fellow Democrat because they decline to swoon over a particular candidate. I remember kids, both boys and girls, like that on the elementary school playground who would try to ostracize others, because the independent child declined to do what the person ostracizing wanted.

While your approval may be nice, I will decline to twist myself into unnecessary anger just in the hope of gaining that approval.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
342. it is never a FEW people, like with this thread. and a group continually tries to define it a FEW
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:43 AM
Aug 2014

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
381. Funny, I've never been labelled a misogynistic troll here
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:44 PM
Aug 2014

and I expressed no outraged urgency over eye rape, sexual fetishes, etc.

Perhaps those who do get labelled as misogynistic trolls exhibited more than just a lack of urgency.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
420. If you decline to engage in the discussion, then that is unsurprising
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:26 PM
Aug 2014

You are right, though. Those feminists that a few at DU label as misogynistic trolls do exhibit more than a lack of urgency. They actually express their opinion.

It sounds like what you are saying is that a person who disagrees with someone's opinion on gender should just be quiet. There is irony there.

In any conflict, there is the danger of becoming the thing we despise.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
421. I was responding to what you wrote upthread
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 05:58 PM
Aug 2014
Over and over, the same few posters label people who support feminist goals and equality as misogynistic trolls simply because they express a lack of outraged urgency over issues of eye rape, sexual fetishes of S&M/B&D, pornography in general, slut shaming and other behaviors that barely register on other people's radar.


"Labelled as misogynistic trolls because they express a lack of outrage..." That's what you wrote. I don't think expressing no outrage is the issue. More likely in what I've seen is the label is slapped on after a poster expresses a disdain for the other poster's outrage. It's one thing to say that you don't see the problem, yet another to dismiss the possibility out of hand repeatedly.

And no, I never asserted that someone who disagrees with another's opinion on gender should be quiet. I have and will continue to assert that some differences aren't just a matter of opinion and yes, those troglodyte opinions don't belong on a center-left discussion board because we as Democrats have evolved beyond them.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
388. "the same few posters label people who support feminist goals and equality as misogynistic trolls "
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 03:23 PM
Aug 2014

Seems we have hit a nerve.

"and other behaviors that barely register on other people's radar."
Obviously not on your radar either. Except for lacto-vegans, who don't suffer the same as women who have had to deal with misogyny, and all that the culture of rape and violence have wreaked upon our lives and our society. in my experience it isn't about shared outrage. It's acknowledging the truth of what is being done, and the costs. It's about personal responsibility to make this a more equitable universe. And if you can't start by owning the context of what you have written, then you have no investment in changing the status quo.

And I find it interesting that you draw a comparison to the extreme views posted on the facebook page to invalidate legitimate concerns right here on DU. Derail much?

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
404. Comparison is not derailment
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 04:06 PM
Aug 2014

Again, the symptom to see here is the anger from the people engaging in this subthread simply because I am not nodding like a chucklehead at everything someone points at as misogyny. That behavior is significant.

We have folks with extreme views everywhere. On DU, the extremes tend to go further to the left than to the right. When we have a nutjob repuke stomping around, the community alerts and boots him or her pretty darn quick. We are much more tolerant, and rightfully so, of stances from the far left. But those who hold those stances are also more likely to unfairly label persons of moderate viewpoints as having much worse characteristics. (i.e. Recent responses to my post)

There are two points I find myself defending. One, I question the criticism some people are heaping on DU for refraining from engaging in some sort of progrom to boot people. The current system is somewhat okay in my opinion, even though it is too vulnerable to hacking. If someone can find where fark.com is booting people because they tolerate porn, B&D/S&M, or someone looking with desire at another person, then I'll stand back. I'll bet money that Fark.com is actually dealing with real misogyny where a poster denigrates women, or advocates for infringement on rights based on gender.

Second, a few posters on DU are making a false comparison between the misogynistic comments on Fark.com and what they perceive as misogyny from thoughtful people who simply disagree that everything someone labels as misogyny (such as eye rape etc.) is in fact misogyny.

I absolutely support equal rights for the genders and sexual orientations. What I do not support is demonizing anything or anyone as anti-feminist simply because they find the particular non-feminist obsession unworthy of anger.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
430. THIS:
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 06:45 PM
Aug 2014
The people who stampede over other voices are the first to cry foul when they feel that their speech—their freedom to bully and insult—is threatened.

Very telling.

 

montex

(93 posts)
441. Everyone has to face criticism
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 08:22 PM
Aug 2014

Nobody (and I mean absolutely nobody) is above criticism, no matter from whom. Misogyny exists. Also, racism, ethnicism, homophobia and a long, long list of bigoted behaviors. All of us have to face something, but I would never stand up and claim that my particular group must forever be sheltered from anyone who hurts my little feefees. If someone types bad things about you in a blog post, so what? The manner of their character is displayed for all to see by their very own text. How you respond to them is the measure of your character.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
443. "forever be sheltered from anyone who hurts my little feefees."
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 09:50 PM
Aug 2014

The manner of their character is displayed for all to see by their very own text.

yes

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
444. Perhaps if you did stand up, fewer blog posters would try to hurt your little feefee.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 09:59 PM
Aug 2014

That would be a measure of your character.

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