Do you approve of hitting children to punish them, under certain conditions?

[Nye Bevan]

34 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	3 (9%)
	No
	31 (91%)
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[deathrind]

1. My "yes" vote is for spankings only.

Not left hooks or uppercuts.

[Beaverhausen]

5. Spanking a 4 year OK with you?

How about a 3 year old? 2?

[AnalystInParadise]

6. ^ this

n/t

We started at 12 and ended at 17. worked for us

[Humanist_Activist]

13. That makes no sense, literally less sense than spanking kids at younger ages than 12...

I know that sounds bad, but by 12, you kid should have a means of effectively communicating things with their parents, and you can communicate back, the fact that you find physical violence necessary, is, quite simply, stupid.

[Scootaloo]

27. Instill the fear of being beaten early, huh?

[Humanist_Activist]

43. Not arguing for it, I just find it fucking stupider than using violence as discipline....

at all. If that makes any sense.

[NaturalHigh]

31. Seriously? Spanking 12-17 year olds is okay?

I really hope I misunderstood your post.

[cali]

41. ugh. the component of that that's really sickening is

the sexual one- and yes, there is a sexual one when you spank pubescent kids. Also the humiliation of factor is nauseating.

I find that flat out disgusting. Oh, and if by 12, you need to spank a kid, you have failed completely as a parent.

[AnalystInParadise]

50. Not really

Both of mine
are college graduates raising their own families. Doing far better than my sisters crappy kids who were never spanked and are in and out of jail and rehab. There were no consequences in their lives, so they never learned. She specifically said she would never spank, she never did, three of her four are druggies, criminals, etc. both of mine were spanked and have successful lives, careers, and have never had one brush with the law. So yeah.

[tammywammy]

52. I was never spanked

I had consequences for my actions. I'm a successful adult, good paying job, own a house, working on a master's degree, never trouble with the law and not on drugs.

[AnalystInParadise]

62. I disagree

Sorry.

I am very comfortable with how I raised MY children. I love them, they love my wife and I and we feel we did an excellent job in raising them.

[JonLP24]

66. Drug addiction is very complex

Genetics & environment are the biggest causes but upbringing, morals, etc doesn't mean much. In fact more likely to become addicted if your childhood was traumatic or painful(abusive). Once taking the drugs and depending on the drug(typically revolves around dopamine), it hijacks your brain and leads to drug seeking behavior where the crime usually comes in.

I'm sure there are many drug addicts that you can find that were spanked as a child.

[cali]

69. yeah. I buy that. Not. spanking a teenager is sick.

[AnalystInParadise]

71. I disagree

I don't find it sick at all. My kids are happy, productive, respectful adults and they thank my wife and I for showing them more discipline than their peers received. You and I have a difference of opinion is all.....

[cali]

74. No. It's not merely a difference in opinion.

the vast majority of experts and studies back up my opinion. Yours? Not so much.

[AnalystInParadise]

75. Fortunately

I have free will and can make up my own mind about what I want to do with MY children. So again you and I disagree. You can cite anything you want, free will allows me to ignore your overbearing attitude and take peace and solace in the fact that both I and my wife feel we raised our kids very well. I have no regrets, and know my kids and further my grand kids will be raised as our family sees fit and in a loving manner. We love our children, and my kids love their kids. If we or they choose to spank for misbehavior, that is our choice and a spank on the bottom is not child abuse.

[Brickbat]

47. ROFLMAO.

[moriah]

63. Your teens really dreaded a spanking more than losing their cellphone privileges?

A spanking lasts a little while.

Cell phones are a kid's life, man.

[AnalystInParadise]

64. Kids weren't allowed

Cell phones until they were 17. Same with Drivers licenses. The spankings are credited (by them, without being asked about it) with helping them learn right from wrong. Different strokes for different folks.......

[moriah]

68. See, it wouldn't have worked on me.

At 11, the one time Mom spanked me and lost her temper, I didn't care about the pain. I was blatantly defying her, pissed off as hell, and felt that whatever she did to me couldn't be worse than what the kids at school had already done to me (concussions, broken arm, etc). So when she threatened to spank me if I wasn't ready to go in 10 minutes, I told her to go right on ahead and do it then.

And didn't make a sound, despite having blood drawn by the switch. I remember feeling it running down my legs after.

Since she'd caused so much damage, she couldn't send me to school anyway. I won.

If, at 11, I could handle that kind of pain, there's no way that any number of spankings would have taught me any lessons at all. She would have had to have done permanent damage before I would have submitted my will.


------

Edit to add: I actually was a really good kid. This incident was completely out of the norm for us -- it was the first time since I was a toddler I'd told her "No". I'd just completely and totally had my fill of being bullied, and refused to deal with it anymore. She only spanked me because she couldn't think of another solution right then, and was angry that I was defying her, something she'd never experienced before. Especially while trying to go to work to keep a roof over my little ungrateful head and all I was doing was causing her to be late, when the kids at this school hadn't made me require medical care yet. I knew they would if it kept on, though, and wasn't about to go through it again.

She enrolled me in a private, GT school that had about 15 kids, that was willing to take me on scholarship. And we never had fights about me going to school again, since I wasn't being tortured there.

As a teenager, the worst thing I ever did was run up her phone bill with long-distance calls to download files for my BBS. She punished me by making me take the modem out of my computer for two weeks. THAT hurt, far worse than being switched to the point of bleeding.

[gwheezie]

77. This is the 1st time I've heard of this method

No kidding. Granted I don't know everyone in the world but I've never run across this idea before. By the time my kid was 12 she was easy to reason with.

[Logical]

10. Sticks? nt

[NYC_SKP]

2. No, but if a child (or adult) is about to touch something dangerous, I may smack their hand.

Yes, smack it in a memorable way to make the point.

Nothing terrorizing, and even if simply holding their hand to prevent the touching will stop THAT touching, a memorable smack might prevent future touchings.

Beyond that, no hitting and especially no hitting as a punishment.

[Laffy Kat]

61. Sooooo . . .

In this case to "protect" a child from doing something dangerous? That's odd to me. You worry and are frightened that your child may hurt his/herself, so you smack them? Child grows up confusing "worry" with "anger." When my kids did something that worried or scared me I would tell them how much that act frightened me, and told them why and what could have happened. Once, when my youngest almost ran into a road with traffic I caught him, got down to his eye level, and told him how scared I was. I held his little hand up to my chest and let him feel how fast my heart was beating. It got the point across much better than a smack, IMO. Kids want to be safe, they want to be taught (disciplined) what is safe and what isn't.

[NYC_SKP]

70. Your example is a great one, it's nice when there is time to consider kinder ways to react.

However, should that same boy, your little boy, be reaching for a container of DDT (I was raised on a farm, we had shit like that), I think you might smack his hand away from it.

Take care.

[BlueJazz]

3. No, No, No

[morningfog]

4. Never under any circumstances.

If you wouldn't don't to an adult, you shouldn't do it to a kid.

And this goes beyond battery, in my opinion. Children are not respected as individuals. It is no wonder that we have a problem with understanding consent when children are routinely touched, tickled, grabbed, picked up, swatting, etc without any consideration of whether they want or would consent to the same. They are taught, during early childhood development that it is okay to use physical intrusion and violence to make someone act how another wants.

[Turborama]

7. You're putting tickling and picking up in the same bracket as smacking?

Do you have children? You don't have to answer that, but as a parent of 2 kids I find that argument ridiculous.

[morningfog]

12. Not in the same argument.

Hitting is always wrong, should never be done.

All of the other things we do to children that we would never think of doing to adults, should only be done with some awareness of the child's autonomy. I am a parent. It really bothers me to see adults, especially strangers, act is if they can do whatever they want to a child without taking the child's wishes in to account.

I am talking about two separate issues, and didn't mean to suggest they are on the same level, they are not. I think we could go far towards improving self respect and understanding consent if we treated children with the same respect that we do adults in terms of body rights.

A parent and kid may have a familiar tickle or flip kid upside down game they play, but it is not okay for another person to assume it is okay to tickle kids, punch faces, pick them up, etc. And parents should be aware of the kid's mood and whether they are receptive to whatever is going on. To be clear, this is wholly apart from hitting and I would thrilled if this is where our discussions were rather than "is it okay to hit your child." We still have a long way to go, but times have changed and continue to change.

[Turborama]

20. Well, I wholeheartedly agree with this...

"It really bothers me to see adults, especially strangers, act is if they can do whatever they want to a child without taking the child's wishes in to account." But I would go further and say it more than bothers me and would make me very angry if I saw a stranger picking up and tickling my daughter.


Also totally agree with, "And parents should be aware of the kid's mood and whether they are receptive to whatever is going on." When tickling I always stop instantly when I can tell they have had enough or say "no" or "stop".


Thank you for clarifying.

[oberliner]

8. Do you have children?

If so, do you refrain from tickling them without getting explicit permission from the child before doing so?

[morningfog]

15. I do.

And I respect their body space and do get permission (more often their request!) before tickle fights and swinging upside down. It takes only a brief pause in the approach to "getting them" or even just saying you're going to get them to gce them te opportunity to invite it or decline it.

[oberliner]

21. That is interesting

This is a POV I have not encountered before. Food for thought, certainly.

[notadmblnd]

54. My son used to tell us when he needed to be punished

He'd say,"Mom, dad, I think I need some punishment." However, punishment at our house was picking him up, holding him between us and smothering him with kisses.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

29. People who tickle without consent are SADISTS, in my experience.

My first MIL started tickling my ex. We were college students. She said, "Help me tickle him" and I said, "No, it's sadistic". She couldn't understand why I refused to join in. She was one of the angriest women I have ever met. I couldn't figure out why she had such a grim look on her face with a fake smile over it.

[laundry_queen]

32. wow. Weird.

Especially because of the age. That seems a bit, um, old for that.

My dad tickled me as a small child and never stopped when I told him to. Once he tickled me so much that I couldn't breathe and could feel myself start to black out. My body forced a breath in and as soon as I could I let out a blood curdling scream and started crying. My dad was PISSED at me for ruining 'his fun' and called me a baby. When I was older, he said he did it because he liked to hear me laugh. No thought as to how it made me feel. He 'teased' (I put that in quotes because it was more like torture) my brother and I often until we cried. He thought it was great fun.

I do tickle my kids, but it goes something like this. I say, "I'm going to tickle you!" if they yell no, I don't. If they start giggling, I'll do it for a very small amount of time and stop. I never let them lose their breath. Mostly they beg me to keep tickling them. I always stop when they tell me to. I don't know why this is so hard for people to get.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

38. That's awful.

Just as bad as teasing. Sadism disguised as "fun". And then when someone cries they justify it by saying "You're too sensitive!"

Bullshit. They're too aggressive.



Yeah he was about 20 and I was a few years older.

[JonLP24]

67. This sub-thread reminds me of a memorable Louie episode

In “Model,” the second of the first two season 4 episodes of “Louie” that premiered on FX Monday night, Louie meets a beautiful model (rather, a beautiful model pursues Louie), she takes him to her house, and they have sex. While in bed, the woman (Yvonne Strahovski) tickles Louie, despite his urgent warnings that he doesn’t like being tickled. Losing control of his body, Louie then turns and, fully accidentally, hits the woman in the eye. She is taken to the hospital, and Louie is faced with a potential lawsuit from the woman’s family, the disdain of his friends for hitting a woman and the knowledge that “her pupil is paralyzed.”

In the past, “Louie” hasn’t shied away from darker themes, tapping into uncomfortable conversations about existential loneliness, sexual assault and mental illness. In the run-up to the “Louie” premiere, FX’s publicity obliquely asked that the detail “of Louie hitting a woman and the aftermath” not be shared in advance. So it seemed, perhaps, that the show was going to make us wrestle with some question of moral ambiguity around Louie’s actions — anger problems, impulsivity, some weightier characterological question. But instead, Louie was the same island of perfect passivity as always — just a normal guy to whom things happen. Even in the case of hitting a woman in the face, it literally happened to him more than it happened to her. (Once she gets punched, we never see the character again, just Louie muddling through a meeting with his lawyer and bemoaning how much money he is going to have to pay the girl’s family.)

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/06/louie_hits_a_woman_but_of_course_its_not_his_fault/`

[joshcryer]

36. I dunno, I think pretend fighting for boys teaches them self-control.

I have two nephews who were never taught self control and who can be a biting insane mess with very violent and overpowering movements.

I have another nephew who I've helped raise and he does not hit at all, his "hits" are literally soft pats, he knows where the line is.

[notadmblnd]

55. I never allowed that.

It all starts out as pretending, but before you know it, someone takes it too far and someone is crying. No, pretend hitting is no way to play.

[NaturalHigh]

9. Nope.

[john kale]

11. Never.

I can't even imagine actually doing something like that, especially to a small child. How can a grownup not feel like the biggest piece of shit alive?

And let's get real, folks--it's usually done in a fit of anger. Like "How DARE you question my authority!" because THEY feel small. The child's "disobedience" triggers something within them that makes them feel inadequate, especially when it's being done by a three-year-old.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. Welcome to DU, john.

[john kale]

17. Thanks a lot.

That means a lot to me.

[NaturalHigh]

24. Great post.

Welcome to DU.

[laundry_queen]

33. Good observation.

Welcome to DU!

[yuiyoshida]

48. Welcome to DU!

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. I believe in walking away when I feel my emotions, my reaction, getting out of hand.

[Quayblue]

23. yep, cuz I'm usually mad about some other shit

speaking of which, I need to check myself more when I'm pissed when I get of off work. I need to start taking a walk or 7 around the block.

[laundry_queen]

34. I have had to do that before.

I was physically and emotionally abused and sometimes my first instinct is to lash out. I've never hit my kids because when I feel myself getting that angry, I put MYSELF in time out. I let the kids know why too. I tell them I'm so angry that I feel like I might do or say something I shouldn't, so I need time to cool down. And I go to my room. Usually when I do that (I've only done it just over a half dozen times as a parent - my oldest is 17) my kids are so shocked that they later apologize with no prompting and behave perfectly for quite some time after that.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. No, hitting a child means there's a serious failure at an attempt to discipline the child...

if you require physical violence to get a point across or to discipline someone, perhaps you should try raising them.

ON EDIT: Not to mention its the consensus that its counterproductive and can be damaging. There's no point in using violence outside of using your child as an outlet for your anger issues.

[tularetom]

19. If you're an adult and you have to make your point by hitting your kid with a leather belt

you've already lost the argument. As a child I was occasionally spanked, sometimes with a wooden spoon. Sure it hurt, but I never gave them the satisfaction of a reaction and when they perceived that I wasn't going to cry, beg them to stop or promise to be "good", I think they got smart and stopped doing it.

Well, that and the fact that I grew 8 inches in about 6 months at age 14 and they probably realized how ludicrous it was to spank a 6'1" kid.

If you have to resort to hitting a child in anger in order to make him behave, that child has the upper hand, whether he realizes it or not.

[davidpdx]

22. I voted no

I'll make two observations about abuse in schools:

1) My 1st grade teacher slammed my head against a desk several times and to my knowledge never got in trouble for it (of course she may have later, I don't know).

2) I work in South Korea and teachers used to hit students. A law was passed several years ago making it illegal (I have no idea about the details). The first hagwon (private institute) I worked at I saw a Korean teacher "quizzing" a student after class and when he gave a wrong answer she smacked him on the hand with a ruler. Later when I worked at an elementary school I saw another teacher approach a student who had fallen down (I can't remember why now as that was quite along time ago) and the teacher tried to stomp on him with his shoe. In both situations I believe the teacher was wrong and should have been reported.

[flvegan]

25. I don't believe in violence.

If any action or reaction is to be one done out of violence, I don't approve.

[madamesilverspurs]

26. I voted "no" but only because

there wasn't an option for FUCK NO!

[Wolf Frankula]

28. It Is My Hope

that if you hit your child, when that child is of an age to hit back, that he or she revenges himself tenfold. Let spankings be repaid by floggings, and blows of the paddle with blows of the bullwhip.

Wolf

[joshcryer]

35. "Timeout" is 10000x more effective.

Physical punishment "works" but it is not effective at all.

[nomorenomore08]

40. I have to agree. I was spanked maybe once or twice as a small child, but I don't really remember it.

What I remember is being firmly told to behave myself. That's what "worked" in my case, if anything.

[joshcryer]

42. Physical is quickly forgot.

Slap, spank, done.

Timeout is psychological. That minute in the corner is literally a minute.

That spank on the butt? Maybe it hurts for a minute the first time, but after awhile? It's nothing. Seconds.

In a way, timeout is more psychologically controlling, because it never loses its power. A child cannot adapt to it. A minute, two minutes, that period of time transpires, and they can't make it shorter. It's in my mind why my brothers don't like "timeout." They can't deal with the child crying or screaming in the corner because it "feels" more painful to them as parents. But to the child, it's empowering, because they find themselves in a situation where their behavior must be calmed, and they ultimately calm it, themselves, in the corner. Self-soothing and developing a very strong character of self-control.

[defacto7]

37. Nope. Not this side of hell.

If you have no verbal or parental skills to deal with a child other than hitting, then you had better get some professional help to know what works both for you and the child. Hitting in any form is unnecessary. Yelling and belittling is worse.

[nomorenomore08]

39. I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, even if I recognize that there are different degrees of it.

But obviously, what Peterson did went way beyond a simple "spanking." This was a vicious beating.

[elleng]

51. No.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. No.

Not how I parent my kids.

[BillZBubb]

56. Not under any conditions.

I can understand people giving spankings in the distant past when it was widely believed that was an effective teaching method. But, it has been very clear for a long time now that violence toward a child is not effective and can be very counterproductive.

There is something viscerally wrong with a large adult beating a smaller, defenseless child. It is sickening and inexcusable.

[MohRokTah]

57. It is never EVER proper to use violence to punish children.

Okay, children who are in diapers? A swift swat on the butt (never hard, you aren't aiming for pain, just the noise of the swat on the pampers) serves to get their attention, especially since you cannot communicate effectively as they are unable to form speech patterns.

They cry. It's not due to pain. It's due to the sudden attention grabbing noise of the swat on their pampers. This is not violence. There is no pain as the swat is absorbed by the diaper. There is a swift grabbing of the child's attention so they know they have done something wrong.

By the time they are able to talk, you don't need to do that any longer, even if they are still in diapers. You communicate with them. You time them out. two minutes at three years old is an eternity. They learn from it.

Violence solves nothing with children. All it does is perpetuate violent behavior for at least one more generation.

[Laffy Kat]

59. No. Never.

It is NEVER OK and I do not understand parents who think it is.

[bravenak]

60. No, not really.

I still slightly hate my mom for beating me. My kids would never trust me if i did that. I tell them to keep their hands to themselves and to ask permussion to touch others. It would be hypocritical. Besides, it would make them act out ithink.

I rarely got them but when i did, it was naked, bent over touching toes. I had to threaten serious consequences to end that madness. My mother never knew it was not normal until i sat down and explained to her that if i took my clothes off at school she would be arrested. I looked like Penny from Good Times.

My kids never experienced this. Yes they are mouthier than i was and they sass me all day. I find it nice that they feel comfortable back talking. They are free to speak as they please. My mother gets a kick out of my four year old arguing with me on every point, all day. She now sees that the beatings just made me quieter, depressed, and scared to make a mistake. As a young adult i rebelled and made a series of blunders that i could have avoided by having confidence. They would never understand it if i hit them.

[Lancero]

65. It's intresting how similar the defense for 'corperal punishment' is to domestic abuse.

In both cases, the defense is that 'it's the only way to teach a lesson!'

The results are resoundingly no for this poll, but I have to wonder if asking "Do you approve of hitting women to punish them" would get the same results, or more no's.

[fadedrose]

72. I don't approve, but sometimes it can't be helped

Tempers flare, etc., and a hand smack on the bum, gentle, might calm things, especially if a kid is overtired, hungry, or denied some toy at the toy store. Sometimes there's no time to wait till the trantrum is over....


No beatings....and slaps are so rare they are memorable to the parent even years later...

An example of mine is when I slapped my grandson on the bum when he was very young because he was touching and attempting to eat kitty litter in the laundry room. He had to know that this was not acceptable. He was so surprised he never touched it again.

In the cases I mean, the parent feels worse than the kid when the slap is necessary....right or wrong, it happens...and when it's not a pattern or habit, the kid will be okay.....

[a la izquierda]

73. No. Never.

My mother hit me so hard once when I was a kid I fell over and my head hit the wall, leaving a dent in the drywall. My father lost his mind.

It was the last time she hit me.

[gwheezie]

76. I remember only being hit once

My dad snapped. It scared the hell out of him me and my brother. He apologized.
I never ever hit my daughter. She is 46 and a happy person who never had any issues growing up. She doesn't hit my grandson. He's 9 does great in school and has terrific social skills.

[jberryhill]

78. If God asks, I'll think about it