DUers - Is there a law in the United States requiring people to have IDs?

[malaise]

Is there any such law in any state?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Isn't Arizona's 'papers please' law one such?

SB 1070 or whatever? Prove you're a citizen, or we'll deport you?

[yeoman6987]

38. Why not just add a picture to everyone's social security card?

Seems so simple. Or the states give free IDs to its citizens of the state. Or the RNC and DNC give up some of those millions to give an ID at registration. Or how about a picture on the voter ID card. Both sides are making this bigger then it needs to be. I find it amazing today with the best technology, we can't easily figure out a simple thing like an ID card. No wonder our country is in such trouble. No common sense anymore at all.

[logosoco]

42. I don't carry my SS card EVER

It would be a pain to get a new one. Plus, these are usually obtained at young age (when applying for assistance or a new job). Then that would be something else to have to renew like a drivers license to update the photo.

[yeoman6987]

44. We can't have it both ways

Obviously we are losing the fight over IDs. In fact, we just lost Missouri today. So now that we know. We need to do something. Maybe the voter ID can have a picture then. We are talking at most 9 percent of the population do not have an ID card. Something needs to be done to have an ID card for them. Once done, the issue goes away.

[logosoco]

45. Oddly enough, I lost my voter ID card years ago ,which is funny, because I

rarely lose things, especially important things! It happened when my kids were small. I have used my DL when voting for years now. I don't think i needed an ID when I registered to vote, it's been a long time , I don't remember what was needed. But the DMV does ask everyone when they renew their DL if they are registered to vote, so that is good.
As far as I can tell, everyone uses a DL or state ID. It is hard to get by in this world without one of those. I have an aunt who has never driven, but she has a state ID.

They are making it next to impossible for some people to vote who don't have ID, but I don't think one needs any form of ID to walk down the street. And a cop should never handcuff someone just because they did not show ID.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Many state have laws requiring people to show ID to cops when asked.

The Supreme Court is cool with it.

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada

Supreme Court of the United States
Argued March 22, 2004

Decided June 21, 2004

Full case name Larry D. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, Humboldt County, et al.

Citations 542 U.S. 177 (more)

124 S. Ct. 2451; 159 L. Ed. 2d 292; 2004 U.S. LEXIS 4385; 72 U.S.L.W. 4509; 17 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. S 406

Prior history Defendant convicted, Justice Court of Union Township, Humboldt County; affirmed, Sixth Judicial District Court, Humboldt County; affirmed, 59 P.3d 1201 (Nev. 2002); cert. granted, 540 U.S. 965 (2003)

Subsequent history Rehearing denied, 542 U.S. 960 (2004)

Holding

Laws requiring suspects to identify themselves during investigative stops by law enforcement officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment, and do not necessarily violate the Fifth Amendment.[1]

[loyalsister]

8. AND, since they are issued by the state they can be confiscated by police

even on election day.

[NutmegYankee]

15. No requirement to carry an ID.

You just must state your name and address.

[antiquie]

3. States with "stop and identify" laws

Alabama Ala. Code §15-5-30
Arizona Ari. Rev. Stat. Tit. 13, §2412 (enacted 2005) & Tit. 28, §1595
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. [1]§ 5-71-213 - Loitering
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-103(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902, 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. §901.151 (Stop and Frisk Law); §856.021(2) (loitering and prowling)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b) (loitering)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14
Indiana Indiana Code §34-28-5-3.5
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A); La. Rev. Stat. 14:108(B)(1)(c)
Missouri (Kansas City Only Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. §46-5-401
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §29-829
Nevada Nev. Rev. Stat. §171.123
New Hampshire N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §594:2, §644:6
New Mexico N.M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3
New York N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law §140.50
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21 (PDF)
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code §2921.29 (enacted 2006)
Rhode Island R.I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. §77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. §968.24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

[malaise]

4. Thank you

[PoliticAverse]

16. Identifying yourself and 'having id' are different things. Note for example

the Alabama law, which states...

http://law.justia.com/codes/alabama/2006/14214/15-5-30.html

A sheriff or other officer acting as sheriff, his deputy or any constable, acting within their respective counties, any marshal, deputy marshal or policeman of any incorporated city or town within the limits of the county or any highway patrolman or state trooper may stop any person abroad in a public place whom he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed or is about to commit a felony or other public offense and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his actions.

[NutmegYankee]

18. You don't have to carry an ID with those laws.

Say you are jogging and are stopped by police. You only need to state your name and address. You cannot be legally arrested for only wearing pocketless jogging pants.

[underpants]

5. No

You do have to have a license to drive but if you don't drive or can't (like my brother) you only need an ID for things like cashing checks or certain purchases. About 10-20% of adult Americans have never had a bank account.

[hollysmom]

7. ha ha about cashing a check

I lost my driver's license in NJ, I called and they said I could not use a credit card when getting my new license if I did not have my old driver's license, needed cash. Went to the bank to get my id out of my safety deposit box and to cash a small check so I could get my new license. They asked for ID - a passport or a driver's license or any state id. well, duh, I did not have one -I WAS TRYING TO GET A NEW COPY OF MY LICENSE SO I COULD LIKE DRive!!!!! Well,finally talked one person into vouching for me, but if I did not come into the bank in person with some frequency to make deposits or withdrawals, that would not have happened as they seem to change staff annually now. I use to walk into that bank and feel like Norm on Cheers -with everyone shouting hello to me, not any more.
Honestly!

How did I lose my driver's ID - funny that you asked - the state has a form that has to be mailed in that offers a tax rebate to seniors - but it wants a photo of your driver's license - duh. So I went to make a copy and either dropped it when I was leaving or misplaced it.

I feel like I was lost in a bad ID nightmare.

[malaise]

17. So the lady in this story did not need an ID?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025533138

[suffragette]

22. CA has had several lawsuits about this. Police keep trying and public keeps winning.

From the wiki page referenced above:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes#cite_note-41

The California Peace Officers Legal Sourcebook ("CPOLS"; written by the office of the California Attorney General) maintains that failure to identify oneself does not constitute a violation of California Penal Code §148(a)(1), resisting, delaying, or obstructing a peace officer:
Unlike Nevada and 20 other states, California does not have a statute mandating that a detainee identify himself, and that obligation cannot be read into Penal Code Section 148. (Rev. 1/08, p. 2.14a)

[malaise]

25. Thanks suffragette

[suffragette]

29. Glad to help. More info here.

When I lived there, I remember a key case being fought about this. It was in the news every night for some time in the 80s.

Sadly no surprise, they kept stopping him for walking while being Black. Took a lot of courage on his part to fight back.


Found it here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_C._Lawson

Edward C. Lawson was an African American civil rights activist, who was the plaintiff in the case of Kolender v. Lawson, 461 U.S. 352 (1983), in which the United States Supreme Court ruled that a California statute authorizing a police officer to arrest a person for refusing to present identification was unconstitutionally vague.

Between March 1975 and January 1977, Lawson was detained approximately fifteen times, as a pedestrian or as a diner in a cafe, and asked to present identification; some detentions lasted minutes, others lasted hours. He was arrested several times pursuant to California Penal Code § 647(e),[1] but prosecuted only twice, with one conviction (the second charge was dismissed). In 1975, Lawson, representing himself (known as pro se), brought a civil rights action against San Diego police chief William Kolender and others, taking the case through U.S. District Court and ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled in his favor.

The U.S. District Court ruled in Lawson's favor, enjoining enforcement of the law. Kolender appealed the ruling the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit; the ruling in Lawson v. Kolender, 658 F.2d 1362 (9th Cir. 1981) upheld the District Court, voiding § 647(e).[2] Kolender appealed the ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which in 1983 upheld the Court of Appeals in voiding the law.[3][4] This case is of historical importance not only because the California statute was voided, but also because it is one of the few examples of an ordinary citizen successfully representing himself all the way through the U.S. Supreme Court. Lawson received political support at the time from prominent Black leaders including Jesse Jackson, activist/comedian Dick Gregory, U.S. Congresswoman Maxine Waters D-Los Angeles, U.S. Congressman John Conyers D-Detroit, and others.

Lawson's Supreme Court brief was accompanied by amici curiae briefs from the ACLU, the National Lawyers Guild, the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and others.

[malaise]

33. Very interesting

Thanks

[Comrade Grumpy]

43. I remember that guy! A black dude with dreads.

[suffragette]

46. Yep. He liked to walk and got tired of being repeatedly stopped and asked for ID.

So he took it to court and won.

[daredtowork]

19. You need an ID to get a job and to enroll in mandated health care

I've been pointing out the discrepancy between the State of California requiring and charging for these IDs even to people on welfare who have been denied direct cash help.

Think about that. You've told people on welfare to "get a job". You've already hobbled them by not subsidizing transportation: they may be trying to "get a job" with out being able to communicate via phone or email, without being able to do laundry or buy soap for a shower. And now you say "we also require you to pay for this ID to get a job".

And you wonder where all the begging, prostitution, and crime comes from?

California, sense you make not.

[jwirr]

6. Anyone but me remember when we so upset because the USSR reguired everyone to carry an ID?

[U4ikLefty]

9. Shhhh..that is NOT supposed to be mentioned.

We are the good guys.

[jwirr]

13. Yeah I know - funny how we are using so many things we learned from our enemies.

[KittyWampus]

14. The USA is still NON-Compulsory ID Cards:

Unfortunately, a few states have fallen under the thumb of the far-right:

The Passport card is issued to citizens upon request. Although its main purpose is for land and sea travel under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, under the REAL ID Act, the passport card is also accepted for domestic air travel.[21] U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has indicated that the U.S. Passport Card may be used in the Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9 (form) process.[22] The passport card is considered a "List A" document that may be presented by newly hired employees during the employment eligibility verification process to show work-authorized status. "List A" documents are those used by employees to prove both identity and work authorization when completing Form I-9. The passport card can be used as valid proof of citizenship and of identity both inside and outside the United States.[23] Most people, however, use state issued driver's licenses, or state-issued (generally by the state's DMV) non-driver's ID cards, as identity cards.

In several states there is an obligation to identify oneself to the police on request. See Stop and identify statutes.

[malaise]

20. 24 states is almost 50%

Still there are no Federal ID laws.

[jwirr]

21. Many states do demand it for certain situations. I am fortunate to live where we do not. In 2012 I

went in to vote and was signing in with my drivers license in my hand. The four people setting at the table took one look at me and waved it away. They said, "We do not need that here." The next time I voted I had to register again because of a move. They remembered me and asked if I had moved out to the precinct which I had not. They asked where I had moved, wrote it down and that was that. That is the way I have voted all my adult life and I hope to continue that way the rest of my life.

[malaise]

11. or South Africa

as in apartheid South Africa.

[jwirr]

23. Yes, and Hitler's Germany if you happen to be a Jew. Not such great examples of what freedom is

all about.

[KittyWampus]

10. List of National Identity Card Policies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country

[cemaphonic]

34. Yeah, it's not as if only totalitarian states use them.

We had them when we lived in Belgium.

[frazzled]

39. Compulsory in Netherlands

Everyone's favorite country here (not mine!).

I'm surprised France isn't on that list. I was a student there back in the late 60s, and thought it was the case then. I had three friends who spent the night in jail because the flics stopped them and they didn't have any ID on them.

[Cleita]

12. Back when we were a democracy, a national ID was discouraged as being

too totalitarian. Yet our SS cards seems to have morphed into a defacto national ID.

[hunter]

24. I don't usually carry any official I.D. with me. I know who I am.

I'm a licensed driver but ever since clerks stopped carding me for beer or wine in grocery stores and restaurants I have no reason to carry official I.D. with me.

[monmouth3]

26. Here in FL we have a State ID with a strip running in the back of the card. I don't know for sure

would imagine your police record (if you should have one) is information recorded on that strip. You can't do much down here without using your ID...

[malaise]

30. We have national IDs in Jamaica

but they're only required for voting. You can use them but most people use a driver's license, passport or work ID.

[Xithras]

27. Only if you're driving.

I'm pretty sure that all states have laws on the books requiring you to carry a license when operating a motor vehicle. Outside of that scenario, you are not required to carry an ID in any state.

As this relates to the discussion above, "carrying ID" and "identifying yourself" are different things. You are required to tell the police who you are if you're the subject of a legal Terry stop, but you don't actually need to have a state issued ID on you to do it. I don't carry my license on me when I'm riding my bicycle or jogging in the morning, but if an officer stopped me and had a legitimate reason for asking, I'd obviously have to give him my name, address, and drivers license number (and giving fake ones to a police officer IS a crime).

[malaise]

31. We have 48 hours to show our drivers' license

but no one asks for an official ID unless you've shown up to vote.

[Blue_In_AK]

28. The only time I have an ID on me is when I'm driving or taking a plane somewhere.

Even when I'm riding in the truck and my husband is driving, I don't carry my ID. I hate carrying a purse. And like Sarah, I can always yell, "Don't you know who I am??"

[logosoco]

41. LOL It is funny that she and zimmerman were both in the news this

week quoted as saying that exact line, then this woman gets in trouble for not having an ID, and she was in a movie!

Funny world we live in.

[treestar]

32. I don't think so

though it would be hard to live without one. Very off the grid.

[gollygee]

35. You certainly aren't required to carry it at all times and show it to police when asked.

I think the rules about having an id are more related to not being able to do a lot of things without one than a legal requirement to have one for its own sake.

[951-Riverside]

36. California Penal Code Section 148 trumps all rights including the constitution

Lets say you are a photographer and the police asks you to leave, the moment you ask "Why?", you will be placed under arrest for 148PC and YOU will be on the hook for lawyer fees and bail even if the charges are dropped also your name will be listed in various public arrest record databases for the world to see.

Good luck getting certain jobs with an arrest recorded for Obstructing a Police Officer and Resisting Arrest (Even if you were found not guilty).

And if the officer feels like throwing you to the ground, you'll get hit with Penal Code 69 -Resisting Arrest Using Force or Violence-.

This happens all day, everyday in California.

My best advice is keep your papers with you at all times preferably in the sun visor not the glove compartment, don't ask any questions when they contact you, answer their questions without hesitation, don't make eye contact, don't make any sudden movements, speak with in soft and humble voice and if you slip up say "sorry sir, it won't happen again".

[Amonester]

37. In Canada, we have (in my province) the federal SIN card...

SIN is for Social Insurance Number: required for everything federal government services like Seniors gov'nment pension plans, for example, and yearly tax-return fillings.

Then the provincial Carte d'assurance-maladie with a color picture on it is mandatory to access provincial healt-care services for free ($0.00), or some (newer treatments) at big discount prices.

Picture that: a government-issued health-care card with your PICTURE on it...

I have them all (no driver license since I use my feet, city transit, or shared bike utility), and never had any problems (at 61½ now).

[malaise]

40. We have a TRN number which is the same number as a driver's license

That Taxpayer Registration Number (TRN) is the most important card - if you don't have that - have fun getting any government service.