Climate change is a myth... right?

[Veilex]

A staggering 97 to 98 percent of scientists agree that Global Climate Change is caused by people.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article
These are our best and brightest who've chosen to dedicate their lives to the objective study of, and understanding of Climate issues

Then, there are the deniers who'll go out of their way to present bogus information in an effort to "debunk" science...
these people are typically "talking heads" and other media types that are NOT scientists... and more particularly, who's field of study has little to nothing to do with Global Climate Change. In the exceedingly few cases where an actual scientist has presented an argument against Global Climate Change, pretty consistently, its because they need the money... and there are some mighty big wallets looking to fund anti-Global Climate Change stances.

The problem is a paltry 41 percent of Americans believe on Global Climate Change.
http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/more-americans-dont-believe-global-warming-happening-survey-20140117

There seems to be this notion that the average American gets to weigh in on science these days. As if it were some blog-kibitzing, where snark and one-upsmanship could suddenly make the denier right. Science doesn't work that way. A clever turn of phrase will never make a non-scientific position right. Ever.

So, to all those who want to have a voice regarding Global Climate Change, you can talk about it all you like... but I have bad news for you: On this topic, you don't get a voice. Your opinion doesn't matter. Only the science matters.
Generally at this point, a denier will pipe up with "Oho! Trying to silence dissenting science!"

No... not at all... that's why we have the http://www.ipcc.ch/ , who takes ALL presented scientific papers into account regarding the issue. I'm not trying to silence science at all... just people who's opinion is completely irrelevant and has absolutely no bearing in science. As the old saying goes: You're not entitled to your own facts... or in this case: science.

The reality is this: There is NO debate over Global climate change.

There are deniers (often getting paid to BE a denier) and there is the 97% who sate unequivocally: The world is getting warmer, and people are mostly to blame.

Pretending otherwise is exactly that: pretending.

[spanone]

1. it's a myth to republican lawmakers...few others.

[Veilex]

2. I wish that were true...

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/more-americans-dont-believe-global-warming-happening-survey-20140117

Media coverage surrounding the release of the IPCC report in September may be the explanation for the shift of more previously uncertain people into disbelieving climate change, Leiserowitz told LiveScience.

-snip-

the media framing of the story may have contributed to more doubt among those who were not firm in their convictions, Leiserowitz said.

"Media frames can be really important in shaping the way people interpret the news," he said.

One thing the Kochs know, is media messaging works while in the vacuum of a contrary message.
We're losing the information war on this one.

[deathrind]

3. Very true. Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Tyson

And many others have been saying the something for sometime now. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (be it right or wrong) but nobody's opinion trumps facts based in reality. Global warming is happening at an accelerated rate and the accelerated rate is human caused. There is no debate about this. 90+% of climate scientists are in agreement on this as well as many scientists from other disciplines.

[Wellstone ruled]

4. The Krotch Brothers stand to loose Billions if we

suddenly put a lid on fossil fuels. Our big Banks are leveraged to hell with Oil and Gas future's. It's all about the money.

[Veilex]

5. "It's all about the money" - Absolutely!

The enormously frustrating part, is there is a not insubstantial amount of money in green-energy and environmental conservation.
They just don't want to go that rout. Oil is easier.

In the geekier sense:
Its very much choosing the quick, easy and decadent Dark side of the force, rather than the much more harmonious and long-viewed Light side.

[Louisiana1976]

7. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[Veilex]

9. Would seem the trolls are out in force all of a sudden!

I'm seeing a rash of "Name removed Message auto-removed" all over the place.

Kinda gives me a warm and fuzzy

[drray23]

10. yes I alerted on his post

but it seems that the MIRT team got him first.

[Veilex]

11. Apreciated all the same!

[edbermac]

8. "Happy trails to you..."

[Enthusiast]

21. ...

[sendero]

12. No it isn't...

... but the idea anything will or even can be reasonably done about it is a myth.

I prefer to tilt at windmills that have a possibility of actually moving.

[Veilex]

13. Thats an interesting take...

Have anything to back that position?

[sendero]

14. Common sense..

.... even if you could cut carbon fuel use by many percent it would make no difference. And if you could manage to do so in the US how are you going to get China and India to go along? You aren't.

This is happening. Much better to spend time and effort dealing with the consequences than in a futile effort to do the impossible.

Rather than try to prove the unprovable, I'll just say come back in ten years when something real has been accomplished, I don't think it will.

[Veilex]

17. "Common sense" often isn't... and more important, it often lacks scientific backing.

"even if you could cut carbon fuel use by many percent it would make no difference." - according to whom? You? And you got your degree in climatology where exactly?


"And if you could manage to do so in the US how are you going to get China and India to go along? You aren't." - You're presuming they haven't already started. Do you know where the vast majority of solar panels are coming from? I'll give you a hint: its not the US.


"This is happening. Much better to spend time and effort dealing with the consequences than in a futile effort to do the impossible." - This sounds exactly like a Koch Brother message to me. You've provided no evidence that it is indeed a "futile effort" or "impossible"... and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just take you opinion for fact on it.

"Rather than try to prove the unprovable, I'll just say come back in ten years when something real has been accomplished, I don't think it will." - Deflective and dismissive. You provided nothing to support your opinion... and thusly I dismiss it as just an opinion.

See you in ten years.

[pscot]

19. Do you have any evidence at all

that humans are actually cutting carbon use? The amount of CO2 we dump increases every year. We'e about to go off a cliff and we aren't slowing down. We're accelerating.

[Veilex]

23. "Do you have any evidence at all that humans are actually cutting carbon use?"

Why would I have evidence to this effect when that is not my argument?

The comment I reacted to was

"the idea anything will or even can be reasonably done about it is a myth"

I'd say you and I have a peas and carrots variety of argument...but its more like spaghetti squash and grapes... sure, they're connected... but their not the same thing.

"We'e about to go off a cliff and we aren't slowing down."

Sooo, what? we should just give up? Call it a day? It was good while it lasted? That's what the message the Koch Brothers want people to buy into: We cant do anything... so why bother?

This is the same kind of logic that says "Government is corrupt...why bother trying to get money out of politics..." - I don't, and wont buy into that self-defeatist kind of crap.

I'll tell you why. Because its our freaking planet...and last I checked, we haven't got a spare!

Even if it is too late, and we're going to face dire circumstances, we STILL have to DO something about it.

And now's looking pretty good as a time to start!

[drray23]

15. We may not be able

to completely revert the trend but we can slow it down enough that it leaves us time to adapt.

Insurances companies already have been planning for this long term by recognizing that some areas will be affected and taking this into account. The same is true for real estate investors.

The hope is that if you act forcefully, you can slow it and by coupling that with technological advances, you might be able to blunt the effect of climate change.

It is ironic (and pathetic) that countries like ours who have the means to make a difference are not willing to do so when less fortunate countries that are unable to do anything are the one going to take the worst hit.

[sendero]

16. Insurance companies..

... are doing the sensible, planning for the inevitable, because it is coming. And the damage is already done and knocking carbon use down even 10%, an almost inconcievable task, would not stop it. Slowing it down a few years is a waste of time.

My advice, if you own beachfront property in FL, sell now.

[pscot]

20. When?

How much time do you think we have left?

[drray23]

24. not very long

The union of concerned scientists has put up a website http://www.climatehotmap.org which attempts to gather information regarding the effect of global warming on various locations.
I live not far from Virginia Beach, VA, so I looked that up:

Rising sea level caused by global warming[6],[8] threatens Virginia Beach, a resort on the Atlantic Ocean and Virginia's largest city.
Global sea level has been rising over the past 50 years. Relative sea level -- which accounts for local geologic movement -- rose more than 8 inches (20.3 centimeters) in areas near Virginia Beach.[8]
A two-foot (61.0-centimeter) rise in global sea level -- well within the range of scientific projections for the end of this century -- is likely to result in a relative sea-level rise of approximately 2.9 feet (88.4 centimeters) in the Virginia Beach region.[8],[14]
If global warming continues unabated, rising sea level risks profoundly affecting Virginia Beach, inundating low-lying areas, endangering coastal property and infrastructure during storm surges, and altering coastal ecosystems.8

Then, they attempt to project what will happen if we try to stop it as best we can :

Scientists expect a warming global climate to cause further sea-level rise during this century and beyond.[8],[10],[11] If we do nothing to reduce our carbon emissions,[12] global sea level is conservatively projected to rise at most 23 inches (59 centimeters) above recent average levels by the end of this century.[13] If, on the other hand, we make significant efforts to reduce our emissions,12 sea-level rise between now and the end of the century could be limited to 15 inches (38 centimeters).[13]

If you take the most optimistic number, that is rise of 15 inches instead of 20.3 inches, you still have a lot of houses, businesses and significant infrastructure under water.


Does this means we should not make any effort ? I do not think so.

The first step is to convince people it is a real problem. Sadly, in our country even that seamingly simple step is hard to accomplish.

Something else that should be done is have cities and counties not issue more building permits in zones that we know will be flooded by the end of the century. Another political hurdle. There, however it is likely the market economy will force the move. Insurers will not want to take the liability.

[daleanime]

18. K&R....

[Enthusiast]

22. K&R! The public deniers imagine that science is a matter of opinion.

This is especially apparent when we discuss the subject of human evolution.

"We should teach both sides so the children can decide for themselves."

[Prophet 451]

25. Climate deniers make me want to stab them

They are literally killing us. There is an actual existential threat to our civilization and they are talking us to death.

[Uncle Joe]

26. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Veilex.

[Veilex]

27. Happy to be of service!