Alan Dershowitz on Hardball...

[one_voice]

says prosecutor over charged. Said if this went to trail, Zimmerman would be acquitted. Said what she charged, 2nd degree is unethical.

edited to add: I think he's full of shit!

[spanone]

1. and what evidence has alan seen? none.

[elleng]

3. Right, ZERO!

[Renew Deal]

11. Probably the same as everyone else?

[vaberella]

29. What irritates me is that Tweety didn't call him on the exact same thing?

I know if it was Lawrence he would have clearly said what you said above. Since he said on his show that obviously they don't have all the evidence on hand.

[elleng]

2. Full of s***, as I've said in another thread.

[Solomon]

16. So did I. He's a pompous ass, and wants in on the csse.

Badly. Not only would he make dough from working on the case, but then he uses it to write books about it.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. So the prosecutor showed Dershowitz all the evidence?

Who knew!

[teddy51]

5. I think Alan Dershowitz should wait to hear the evidence before making that call. Would doubt

if he has seen anything first hand that would call for a lessor charge!

[MoonRiver]

6. Dershowitz also was ok with torture.

His opinion is meaningless.

[Typical NYC Lib]

19. Not just okay

On Sept. 12th, 2001, I saw him on TV justifying how we'd "probably have to use" it.

[lukkadairish]

7. You all

Beat me to it. I'm not really caring about his credentials at this point...he pontificated like a pompous ass who couldn't be bothered with the shooting death of a young black boy, in a gated neighborhood, by a gun toting zealot.

[Vattel]

8. He's wrong for one very simple reason.

The prosecution's case rests on the the claim that the pleas for help on the 911 recording are Martin's. If they are, then Zimmerman's crime clearly is second degree murder. Thus, they would be under-charging if they only charged manslaughter.

Edited to add: Keep in mind that those please for help lasted for 40 seconds prior to the gun shot. If the prosecution can show that that was Martin screaming, then Zimmerman's goose is cooked.

[Quixote1818]

22. I agree 100% and don't understand why this is rarely talked about by pundits. nt

[anti-alec]

25. Showed malice and depraved indifference

That is first degree murder, not 2nd. 2nd is an undercharge, and he should be lucky to get that!

[vaberella]

31. I understand what your saying but there's one thing here.

For it to be Murder 1 it would have to show premeditation and that includes planning. There's not much to show that Zimmerman planned all the details out to kill. Or I think the Prosecution is not planning on going there because that is very speculative and dangerous ground. While everything else included can be met.

[dpibel]

33. Premeditation does not require planning

If Zimmerman were in fact holding Martin at gunpoint for 40 seconds as Martin screamed for help (note the subjunctive--I'm not saying it happened that way) that could well be sufficient time to reflect and, as FindLaw puts it, "enough time for a reasonable person to second guess the decision."

Point became moot, anyway, as soon as Corey waived the grand jury.

Florida model jury instruction for Murder 1 says, in pertinent part:

“Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so. The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing. The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing. The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.

The question of premeditation is a question of fact to be determined by you from the evidence. It will be sufficient proof of premeditation if the circumstances of the killing and the conduct of the accused convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of premeditation at the time of the killing.


Per FindLaw:
Deliberation and Premeditation

Whether a killer acted with the deliberation and premeditation required for first degree murder can only be determined on a case by case basis. The need for deliberation and premeditation does not mean that the perpetrator must contemplate at length or plan far ahead of the murder. Time enough to form the conscious intent to kill and then act on it after enough time for a reasonable person to second guess the decision typically suffices. While this can happen very quickly, deliberation and premeditation must occur before, and not at the same time as, the act of killing.

[Little Star]

9. Screw Dershowitz! n/t

[Whisp]

10. figured he'd say something full of shit, he usually does.

on most any subject.

[FarPoint]

12. I was thinking along those lines myself.

The fact that no other charges being made by the Prosecution such a manslaughter will leave just one chance. If prosecution cannot make 2nd degree murder ...he, Zimmerman walks to shoot another day ...

[Solomon]

17. No he doesn't. Manslaughter is a lesser included

offense in a 2d degree murder charge. The jury can give him that if it wants to. That's the job his lawyer is focused on because he's a real lawyer. That would be a win for him.

But the jury is not going to let him walk just because they can't agree on 2nd degree murder. No sir

[arthritisR_US]

13. I think what's unethical is him talking out

of his ass!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. In his defense

he's Alan Dershowitz and just doesn't know when to stop talking shit.

[jenmito]

15. He sounded like Sean Hannity asking,

"Where's the part about the grass stains on the back of Zimmerman's shirt? Where's the part about the bloody head and nose? This affidavit is so thin that Zimmerman should get an acquittal..."

These things were disproven by the VIDEO. THAT'S why those lies weren't in the affidavit.

[Raine]

18. What an ASS, he hasn't seen the evidence but still

sounds off like he knows it all.

[hlthe2b]

20. This the same asshole that continually defended use of torture?

Who has never prosecuted a case in his life, as far as I can tell.

He's speaking as a defense lawyer, not a prosecutor. And he's an ass all the same.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

21. Question regarding the term "depraved mind"

In order to convict Murder 2 the prosecutor has to prove Zimmerman had a
depraved mind at the time of the murder. Can anyone answer if "depraved
mind" is a legit psychological term ? Also, from a legal perspective what qualifies
as a "depraved mind?" I'm just wondering how a judge instructs a jury as to what
qualifies as a depraved mind, or does he?

depraved |diˈprāvd|
adjective
morally corrupt; wicked: a depraved indifference to human life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. a depraved indifference to human life.

that is what they mean legally... has zero to do with psychiatry

[Solomon]

27. How 'bout ill will. thats all you need. Killing someone

out of ill will is a depraved mind.

[vaberella]

30. oh...If I am correct. Depraved mind = malicious intent

Where the person wanted something bad to happen in order to show this person had no care for human life. Hence the depraved mind concept. And I think depraved mine can be extended to many things.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

37. Thanx. This is going to be an interesting aspect of the trial. n/t

[marshall]

39. I found a legal definition online:

"The condition of mind described as depravity of mind is characterized by an inherent deficiency of moral sense and integrity. It consists of evil, corrupt and perverted intent which is devoid of regard for human dignity and which is indifferent to human life. It is a state of mind outrageously horrible or inhuman."

In this case one thing they could focus on is police testimony and eyewitness testimony about Zimmerman's actions and statements immediately following the incident. I have not heard an account, but I assume they have it. Did he attempt to render assistance to Martin? Was he distraught, or was he calm and cold?

And of course there has also been no evidence leaked about the trajectory of the bullet? Did he shoot Martin from behind? Did he shoot him from a near or far distance? Was he on top of him when he shot?

There will also be the evidence of whatever injuries were on Zimmerman (if any) and what injuries were on Martin (other than the gunshot).

[anti-alec]

24. Alan Dershowitz lost his relevancy

a long time ago. I used to admire the man - but no more.

He's just a pathetic flim-flam man.

[AtomicKitten]

26. The jury instructions will include manslaughter as an alternative, lesser charge.

[Solomon]

28. LOL. You're dashing hopes and fantasies

[former9thward]

35. Only if the parties agree.

That is how Casey Anthony got a not guilty verdict. There was no agreement to allow the jury to consider a lesser charge so the jury freed her.

[bigdarryl]

32. Where did Tweety find this old fart from he's been irrelevant for years

[former9thward]

34. He is not full of shit. He is correct.

Any defense attorney would tell you that. Given the three elements of murder 2 that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in Florida it was a breach of ethics by the prosecutor. She knows she can't prove them. Not the first time a prosecutor overreached.

[HooptieWagon]

36. Fuck Dershowitz.

He hasnt seen and heard the evidence. Prosecutor is no nonsense and has a strong conviction record. If she charged murder2, then she has a strong case.

[Zax2me]

38. No surprise. This is what defense teams of his kind do.