Charles Barkley Goes Off on "Unintelligent" Black People

[FrodosPet]

Is this part of his hazing to join the KKK?

Ummm, Charles, your white robes are showing. Why should African Americans have to give up their culture and organic social structures to make the dominant power group happy?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. He must be hanging out with Bill Cosby...

[lpbk2713]

6. Or Calypso Gene

[brush]

27. His mistake was implying "all black people" practice this stuff

There' a minority of people in the black community that haven't been exposed to much outside of the "hood" and expect everyone to speak ebonics and not try to gain marketable skills in school.

It's not everyone, not my family and not my friends.

It's a minority in the black community and Charles knows better, or he should, because he came from a black neighborhood in the South and he's done ok.

Guess he forgot he wasn't the only one that got out of his "hood".

[mythology]

2. Do you really mean to imply that the cultural social structure of blacks is to avoid education?

That's what Barkley is talking about. He's saying black kids should go to school, get good grades and so forth. If you're saying that organic black culture is to not go to school and get good grades, I'm not sure how that makes Barkley the racist.

Statistically getting an education is the best route to the middle class. That means going to school and getting good grades. Yes some people escape poverty by having athletic gifts. But there are more black cardiologists than there are black NBA players.

[BuelahWitch]

14. Or go to jail for "street cred"? n/t

[PCIntern]

3. I see him Sunday Mornings at my Acme Supermarket...

believe it or not, we used to occupy lockers in a Bala Cynwyd Exercise club about 28 years ago which were right next to each other. No, I am not answering any obvious questions...

[linuxman]

4. I watched the video.

Klan robes? Really?

My racism detectors at be broken. Can you break It down for me?

[ChazII]

5. +100

I heard only common sense.

[Nye Bevan]

7. Black kids being accused of "acting white" because they get good grades

is indeed a problem IMO. Do you disagree with Barkley on this?

[kwassa]

28. What country are you from?

and where do you live?

I see you are named after a Welsh labor leader responsible for the national health service in England.

Yet you constantly comment on the race threads here on DU. Why?

[Nye Bevan]

29. I live in Connecticut and my username reflects my support for health care reform in the US,

honoring the person who fought for the National Health Service in the UK.

Do you agree with me (and Charles Barkley) that it's a problem when black kids are accused of "acting white" when they get good grades?

[kwassa]

30. This is not unique to black kids. White kids who excel academically can get pressured to ...

dumb it down, not stick out too much. Social pressures among adolescents can be amazing. Yes, it is bad in the black community, and it is called something different to the same effect in the white community.

Those that excel are described as nerds, or some other pejorative. I was one of those kids, and felt those pressures.

Only about a third of white kids graduate from college, so maybe the bulk of white kids are not role models to emulate.

edit to add: Barkley is not remotely new in making this critique, and is not particularly insightful about it. This isn't a "dirty dark secret" this has been discussed publicly for years. This is just Barkley being Barkley.

[AndreaCG]

32. Well said.

[Nye Bevan]

37. So should prominent blacks never mention the "acting white" problem?

Or should they speak out in the hope of changing at least a few minds in this regard?

[kwassa]

38. Prominent blacks should do whatever they want to do.

It is not up to me what they choose to talk about.

I am merely pointing out that the discussion of this issue is not new, and the phenomenom is not restricted to black children only.

[joeglow3]

49. I graduated with a 4.0 and was never attacked. My brother-in-law?

He is black and had a 3.0. He as not known to be smart or a nerd. And yet, him and both his sisters endured years of being told they were acting white.

[PorridgeGun]

36. lel.. talk about shooting the messenger n/t

[madville]

8. I understand his point

I'm witnessed it myself, mainly in high school and when I played football. There was a tremendous amount of peer pressure on the black teenagers who excelled at academics or "acted white", seen them ridiculed by the other black teenagers and called "sellouts". This was over 20 years ago in a rural southern county with a tremendous amount of both white and black poverty.

[Le Taz Hot]

9. Uh, I don't see the racism here.

As a white woman, I can't speak for the African-American experience but I know, in general, you can't be smart without being shamed for it. That goes double for women (of which I do have experience). He's putting it in the context of the Black community as he sees it and gives the quote that, if a Black kid seems too smart he/she is accused of being white.

[madville]

10. President Obama and Michelle have given that same speech directed at black youth

Michelle Obama last year: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/17/michelle-obama-challenges-black-youth-priorities/

"Today, more than 150 years after the Emancipation Proclamation, more than 50 years after the end of Separate But Equal, when it comes to getting an education too many of our young people just can't be bothered," Obama said. "Today instead of walking miles every day to school they're sitting on couches for hours playing video games, watching TV instead of dreaming of being a teacher or lawyer or business leader they're fantasizing about being a baller or a rapper."

Citing her husband, the first lady urged students to "reject the slander that says a black child with a book is trying to act white."

That's pretty much exactly what Charles Barkley was saying as well, are they all racist? I don't believe so, there is truth to what they are saying.

[politicaljunkie41910]

12. As a black women and mother of three who are all college grads I agree with what Charles said here.

This doesn't mean that what he says applies to ALL Black people, but unfortunately, it applies to enough Black people that it continues to be disheartening to many of us, and particularly me as a Black woman. Much of it is rooted in a lack of education, and it's sad to say, the majority of it IMHO is rooted in the breakdown of the Black Family. When Black families are intact, with a Mother and a Father in the home, children tend to be more successful. I know some will say, that can be said about any race of people, but it is more profound regarding Black people because they were the ones who were hunted down in their homelands, and brought to this country and families broken up, and sold off.

Once slaves were freed, they had to find a way to make a living, and a hundred years later, they were still seeking justice and opportunity in America and some people gave up. After all, is a Man without his dignity really a Man? After seeming to play by the 'rules' and falling further and further behind, some have given up. People forget that the proliferation of illegal Mexican workers parts of America began as a means to thwart the efforts of black workers who were trying to organize in an attempt to earn a living wage and to be treated with dignity. Businesses would bring in Mexican workers to do labor that had previously been done by black workers, at a cheaper price.

After several more decades, a new breed of young men have taken hold in the black community. It's rooted in misguided attitudes, but it exists nonetheless. Many no longer have hope of achieving white America's version of the "American Dream". If they can't own a home, at least they can dress cool in $200 sneakers. Another misguided idea. With no fathers as role models in the home, the culture of single motherhood as 'normal' proliferates communities. And the ultimate misguided idea is that the oppressed no longer wanted to look or sound like their "oppressor" so they want to talk their own language (shunning the English language) and dress the way they want to dress. Speaking well and doing well in school in a small but influential circle, is mocked and ridiculed.

I thought that the election of President Obama was just what the black community needed; an infusion of Pride. Someone who had come from humble beginnings, and looked like them, had played by the rules and risen to the top position in the land. The Presidency. Surely, we had overcome? Chris Rock joked, "Wouldn't you know, we finally get a Black President and the nation's BROKE?"

But the racists elements of the Tea Party and the Republican Party were having none of it. They couldn't stand the thought of a black man having beaten them at the ballot box, and the conspiring to see him fail began at once. The black youth saw what the Tea Party and other extremist groups were doing to this President, and they had to be thinking, "if they could do this to his man who is a Harvard Graduate and was voted the editor of the Harvard Law Review by his non-white peers, and a former U.S. Senator who had reached across the aisle while a Senator to work with members of the opposite party to get things done, what chance do I have. And unfortunately, that would be one of the things that they would be right about. How the Republican Party treated President Obama, was disgraceful, spawn out of racism, and will take decades to repair with the black community, if ever.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. Thank you for posting these insights about The Black Experience.

Very thought provoking. Thank you.

[Rhinodawg]

73. " it applies to enough Black people "

if anyone else said that, DU would

[badtoworse]

13. Does anyone remember Ebonics?

[bravenak]

26. I do.

I consider myself fluent.

[badtoworse]

33. Do you think speaking that way reflects well on the Black community?

[bravenak]

35. I think people underestimate people who speak ebonics.

It's not like we speak proper english in America anyway. It shows how biased our society is and how silly.

[badtoworse]

42. There is a broad spectrum of English speaking skills.

The fact that most people make some mistakes speaking English does not justify atrocious English. Jesse Jackson referred to Ebonics as "talking trash" and I agree with him.

You might think it's silly for people to make judgements about people based on how they speak, but that's reality and it's not going to change. For your sake, I hope you don't speak fluent Ebonics in a job interview.

[bravenak]

43. Don't worry about me.

My english is better than most, my spanish is decent, and my German is passable. I was born in a poor neighborhood but my IQ is quite high. It help me to be able to navagate most situations and I never hav to put much effort into it.
When I went back to the 'hood' I was very high minded and looked down upon those who spoke in cant or 'ghetto' vernacular. I realised that many of those people could speak just like me if necessary. And they did. But it was an affectation and it was unnecessary to use it at home. Also, it is deemed as impolite to speak over the heads of people who are not as educated as you.

[badtoworse]

45. That's encouraging, but I think that speaking that way does the Black community a disservice.

It helps maintain the stereotype that Black people are ignorant and/or unintelligent. It makes no sense to me that an intelligent person with good language skills would do that under any circumstances.

Your speaking at the level of an uneducated person does them a disservice too. Speaking at their level validates poor language skills and takes away the incentive to do better. In that sense, you become an enabler. Moreover, you're wasting an opportunity to help them with their language skills - just hearing reasonably good English spoken would help them learn proper usage. You can do that without speaking in a way that is a put down.

What about Black kids? I understand that many young Blacks believe that if they come off as being smart or if they speak well, then in some way they are betraying the Black community by being too white. I presume you are old enough to set an example and speaking poorly with such young people would reinforce a damaging, misguided belief. Why wouldn't you want to send the opposite message by using good language skills?

[bravenak]

47. They hear well spoken english every day.

They are not living in a cave somewhere. Most speak regular english at work and school. And speaking over someones head does not help them at all. Communication is about inderstanding each other not showing off for each other. Every language has differnt dialects and these are ours, love it or hate it.

There will always be a separatation from the way those with money and education speak and the way regular folks speak. If those with proper english skills go to their neighborhoods, they would kack the necessary skills to communicate their ideas effectively. That is why you must tone it down and interact with people in a way that will facilitate communication.

[joeglow3]

50. I really hope you are right.

A friend of mine spent years working for an outreach not for profit in Chicago that helped people find jobs. She has some sad stories including the guy who put his email address (knifeslasher69) on his application. She had one person who talked about not getting any offers, so she called his phone and heard the most offensive voicemail message she has heard.

Some of her stories are so egregious that I really believe (and to a certain extent hope) these people just don't know better.

[bravenak]

56. Thats a whole different set of issues besides language.

Some people just lack common sense. If you have studied other languages, you find different tenses depending on how verbs are used. They have informal and familiar tenses. High speech and low speech, regional language, etc. We have it too. I pretty much see American English as a dialect of English.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

82. I'm sure there are white kids who are doing the same stupid shit now

Trickle down ignorance. Cuts to the school system in areas that can afford it, so older white folks without kids or grown kids can avoid property taxes. Pretty soon, the inability to be professional when seeking a job will be a multi-cultural epidemic.

[badtoworse]

77. I understand what you're saying and to an extent I agree with you.

I can't say from experience how well and how many Black people are able to "turn off the dialect" when it's inappropriate. My gut tells me that too many lack that skill and will be greatly handicapped in life because of it.

On balance, I think the dialect, Ebonics, talking trash, whatever you want to call it, is harmful to the Black community. We're not going to agree, but I enjoyed the dialogue.

[snooper2]

86. What do you think about this ladies views

[bravenak]

89. I used to be her.

Then I grew up a bit and stopped being so judgmental. I realized that we had learned to judge each other from somewhere, by people who wanted to keep us bickering and infighting.

They have done this since slavery. There would be the women like me, well spoken, pretty, mixed, and we would be treated a certain way and would treat our brethren differently based on what we did. Field hands were rough, poorly spoken, and we judged them according to how whites wanted us to. Now we model our behavior after them and we have our uncles who must down their brothers to get some satisfaction and prove to the white man that they are acceptable negroes. I no longer care WHAT the white man thinks. My mind works just fine.

I get told I talk white all the time. I just say. I better! I have to work. And we laugh and have a black moment. White folks wont let me work unless I'm an acceptable negro. I say. And they nod, cause they know. And it's true. It used to be the opposite. Well spoken negroes were treated with suspicion once, while our slangy poorly spoken brethren were what negroes should be.


There has always been rules that change for us as soon as we learn the rules. I am not a conservative. I do not hold on to the past. Language changes rapidly and we are changing ours for better or worse. English is not OUR language, it was forced on us. THIS is how we make it ours. It's one thing white folks can't force us to change to suit their sensibilities. Those of us who can code switch, change up, and semi assimilate do it, but that doesn't mean we should look down on our brothers and sisters. We already HAVE the advantage over them. No need to rub it in by downing them even if they make fun of our overly educated, extra enunciated selves. I see myself in every caricature of Black folks our society uses to keep us down. And fuck going along with the program.

[snooper2]

90. Thanks for your perspective...hopefully in another 100 years none of this will matter

[bravenak]

92. I think there will be a common tongue. We will speak Internet or version of it.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)

https://m.

This thread made me think of this. One of my Favorite movies and an appropriate song.

We haven't spoken English in America for years according to the good professor.

[kwassa]

48. I don't think you understand this subject.

The judgement that black people who speak this way are ignorant or unintelligent comes from YOU.

It is called code-switching. Blacks often talk to other blacks in a vernacular that makes perfect sense to them, and also denotes a recognition of shared experience. They also speak standard English in the workplace, or mixed settings. It is a cultural thing.

It is all about the context of the situation.

Frankly, I find you wildly judgmental about your imagined effects of this practice, which indicates to me how little you understand African-American culture.

[badtoworse]

76. I'm not Black and probably can't relate to the Black experience.

I'll defer to what some prominent Black Americans said about Ebonics in 1996 when the Oakland School Board wanted to recognize it as a primary language for Black students:

Jesse Jackson:"You don't have to go to school to learn to talk garbage."

Maya Angelou: "The very idea that African American language is a language separate and apart is very threatening, because it can encourage young men and women not to learn standard English."

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-23/news/mn-11966_1_oakland-school

In any case, I make no apology for making judgments about people based on how they communicate.

[kwassa]

80. I think you should make that apology.

If you drop your judgementalism, you might actually learn something about them. Simply because someone doesn't communicate the exact way that you do doesn't mean that they don't have something important to say. This is your loss, not theirs.

And Ebonics hasn't been an issue since 1996, either.

[badtoworse]

81. The term "Ebonics" might not have have been in use since 1996,...

...but the issues associated with trying to legitimize substandard English are as relevant today as they were in 1996. It's one facet of what Barkley was talking about. I think his comments were spot on and I make no apology for mine.

[kwassa]

96. Whatever.

You don't know what you don't know.

[TheKentuckian]

111. While I lean toward disagreeing with you, like in a 75/25 sort of way, I do wonder

why the relative levels of hand wringing about Boomhauer Americans and other flavors of unintelligible white folks is so low and there is nearly zero percent "switching" with those folks, they can't clean up.

The reasons I disagree more than agree though is related, many can't "switch" and that reduces their opportunities and increases their trouble. I firmly believe this adds significantly to the prison disparity. I see negative ramifications with no upside at all which I read as bad practice.

I'm also disinclined to rationalize the mentality that led to me literally having to catch asswhippings for "talking white" nor will I second guess my mother who taught me that I was not "talking white" but rather speaking correctly.

Mostly rationalization, I think.

[Kalidurga]

51. You are a saint...

and Kudos for maintaining your ability to code switch.

[bravenak]

52. Thanks.

[Kalidurga]

53. I have to admit I mighta gone off

I can speak a bit of the urban language of Minneapolis and I used to be fluent in Hillbilly. I really really despise language snobs.

[bravenak]

55. I am getting used to language snobs around here.

Last time it was about my terrible grammar (from one person, too black) and then for talking 'valley girl' like a white person(from somebody else). Can't win for losing around here. It really is a fact of life for me. The number of times I have gotten kudos on how 'well spoken' I am could fill a book. I laugh at all language snobs now. Bunch of Henry Higgins'!

[Kalidurga]

57. I am going to college and the non snobs actually far out number the snobs...

I catch it more from middle aged ladies (people a bit younger or older than me) on the street. I'm like srsly? I think it's kind of funny in a way. But on the other hand I can feel how it affects people other people that they aim that crap at. I hear cussing and as long as it isn't loud I am cool with it. I can feel heads spinning though just cuz some people talk that way, I mean they are literally just talking and they are literally speaking my language. I also have terrible grammar and I don't speak academic, I am learning to incorporate my language in my papers. I am doing okay grade wise with that, not As on papers that are supposed to be strictly academic, but a B is way better than an F that I would get if I tried to do a whole paper like that cuz I really don't get academic reading unless I translate it first, but to spit it back out after that is rough.

[bravenak]

58. I think that the evolution of language is the domain of the young.

I am a millenial, my mom corrects my pronunciation when ever she gets a chance. It's like a reflex, you know? But at the same time i find myself having to translate slang to her because she lovez hip hop. I think that in 20 years our way will be the standard and kids will just keep making up new stuff. But, since we are all connected (internet, technology) basically from birth, we will end up with a more common tongue. And it will change less the more connected we all are.

I always see language snobbery as a conservative thing. Trying to make a homogenous people.

[Kalidurga]

60. I am an old fart...

So I have a bit of language from my elders so language from the 40's and I am around college age people so a little of that. Then on the internet who knows, but I got quite a bit of net speak that comes out in real life once in a while, like the word srsly and lots of others. I pick up whatever I hear on the streets as well.

[bravenak]

61. You sound youthful, I like it.

I like the fact that we are starting to see a blending. You just made me decide I'm not too old to go back to school if i want to. I feel old sometimes. I speak internet all the time. Its the new english.

[Kalidurga]

62. You should definitely do it.

I am in Minnesota so I don't know if it is mainly the culture here, but the young people there are very nice and not snobby at all. I had this idea it would be uncomfortable with the way I talk and my age, but it isn't at all. YMMV on that front. But, you will still learn a lot and being around young people is kind of fun even if I can't do a lot of the on campus activities. I agree internet speak is going to be the new english.

[bravenak]

66. I think I will give it a go.

And we are fortunate in our lack of snobs. They are few and far between.

[Kalidurga]

69. You are just in time to apply for financial aid if you need it and plenty of time

to sign up for classes. The best ones are still bound to be available.

[bravenak]

70. I have to wait until next year because of some issues.

My sister works in financial aid and has been trying to boss me around forever. I may let her win this summer. I have many interests and no debt so I think I will be ready when my youngest starts school in the Fall. We can start school together.

[Kalidurga]

71. That's awesome say hi to your sister for me.

[bravenak]

72. I wiil! She reads us sometimes!

I'll tell her she got a mention. She'll like that.

[ieoeja]

87. That urban language is really an off-shoot of Hillbilly.

The Black Diaspora didn't come from Africa. It came from southern farms.

I grew up on a farm myself. I had a pretty hard go of it when I moved to Chicago until I started dating a Black gal. Hanging out with her older relatives was like hanging out with my family.

[Kalidurga]

98. I still can't figure out why my family talks the way they do

As far as I know my dads roots are all Northern Farmers. But, on the other hand a family tragedy meant that my great great grandfather had to hire some live in help and they very well might have been relatives from the south.

[JI7]

54. how did Bush's speaking reflect on the white community ? at least black people didn't

support someone who speaks horribly to become President of the United States.

[badtoworse]

78. That is a ridiculous comparison. Bush mispronounced some words like "nucular" for nuclear.

Aside from that, his English was pretty good. I don't remember ever hearing him use "I be", "you be" and "we be" as forms of the verb to be.

[bravenak]

91. Have you even been down south?

We learned the i be's and you be's from our Southern White folks. They still use it and so do we.

[badtoworse]

93. What difference does that make? Bad English is bad English regardless of who's speaking.

[bravenak]

94. It matters because this is how language is.

It evloves from everyday usage between people. As we move away from each other the inflections change. We speak terrible English in America. The Englsh pronably cringe listening to us and I find it silly that we despise each other over a language we All Speak poorly.

Very classist we are.

[JI7]

99. you are the ones demanding black people do something about it while excusing Bush

most white people voted for BUsh to be the fucking president of the united states.

i don't see most black people pushing some ignorant ass like Bush for leadership positions.

[badtoworse]

100. I'm not demanding anything.

I've opined that speaking a certain way does the Black community a disservice.

[JI7]

101. so why doesn't the way Bush speak do the same for white people ? white people voted for someone

who speaks like that to be the president of the united states.

[badtoworse]

103. Because voting and speaking are not the same.

People vote based on positions and ideology. Bush's speech was good enough to communicate those things to the voters.

[JI7]

104. so it's ok for white people if they can't speak well because they form a majority

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

[badtoworse]

107. I addressed that in Post 93.

Bad English is bad English whether you're Black or White.

[JI7]

108. no, you made excuses for bush and keep calling on black people to do something

within their own community.

[badtoworse]

109. My comments on Bush were in Post 78.

I do think that Blacks would be well served to discourage the use of substandard English, particularly by young people. That's my view and I'll stand by it.

[JI7]

110. only blacks

[kwassa]

113. This is completely false.

George W. Bush never spoke with a Texas accent until after he lost his first run for Congress. He grew up in Connecticut. His accent is completely affected.

There is no universal good English standard. There are multiple American English standards.

You somehow see yourself as arbiter of such standards, but I was not aware that you were elected to such a position.

[badtoworse]

114. I just know good English when I hear it.

I also have a good sense of what will get you a second interview and what will get you a short first interview.

[kwassa]

115. I'm so glad to hear that you think yourself the final judge of this matter.

Not.

[LanternWaste]

95. His grammar skills were consistently bad, hence, the term 'Bushism' made popular during his reign of

"Aside from that, his English was pretty good..."

His grammar skills were both dramatically and consistently bad, hence, the term 'Bushism' made popular during his reign of errors.

However, I certainly understand one's desire to see it otherwise to appear consistent.

[Jamastiene]

63. Ebonics is spoken by many races in the South, including white people.

Even teachers and coaches speak it. It's just another way to communicate. Southern American English and Ebonics are not all that different and neither one has anything to do with intelligence. It is not like we use "proper" English in America anyhow. If we did, we would pronounce the H in herbs and add a u to a lot of words.

I don't see the need to look down on someone who speaks Ebonics. It has nothing to do with their level of intelligence. It is just another dialect of English.

Do you think looking down on someone for how they speak reflects well on you? Would you single out someone from Brooklyn or New Jersey and tell them they sound unintelligent because they have a different dialect than you?

[gollygee]

74. You should google "linguistic oppression"

and read a bit about it.

[badtoworse]

79. I read the Wikipedia piece and it didn't change my opinion about AAVE.

Butchering a language and speaking an entirely different language are not the same.

[tkmorris]

15. KKK? White robes? This is absurd

What an embarrassing thread.

[Throd]

17. So the authentic black American experience is to be an uneducated criminal?

That sounds racist to me.

[Oktober]

68. Nailed it...

Is that the way one really wants to define black culture?

[DemocraticWing]

18. This is the same message President Obama delivers when he speaks to African Americans.

[mstinamotorcity2]

19. charles Barkley speaks for

Charles Barkley

[former9thward]

22. As does every other individual.

[Reter]

20. KKK? All I heard was truth

Good for Sir Charles.

[former9thward]

21. Right, if he disagrees with you he is KKK.

Got it ...

[butterfly77]

23. Is Charles saying..

If you speak in ebonics you are unintelligent? or if you are successful in making money you are intelligent? Can you speak ebonics make money and be intelligent? If you speak proper English does this mean you are intelligent? When did Mr. Barkley become an expert on all black people?

[BronxBoy]

24. As a Black man,

I agree with Charles one hundred percent. And I suspect that many, probably the majority, of a lot of our people feel the same way. I think that the majority of people who might get upset with Charles will do so not because of the the substance of what he said but more because he said it "in front of company" These issues do get discussed in Black households as do "thugs", "saggy pants" and the street cred mentality. I'm sure that once my wife sees Sir Charles' comments, we'll be discussing it again.

Someone posted a thread in GD the other day about how we need to really have a national discussion about race. The day was nice and I didn't participate too much in the thread but I did post that I don't think we will ever to that point because it would mean that groups would need to take a hard look at problems in their communities and then discuss them with other groups. This is a good example of that. Not many people want to have this type of conversation in the light of day and potentially subject themselves to some very unflattering criticism.

And Black people aren't the only group that feels this way. I remember reading an article back in the 80's when the junk bond scandals were jumping off. The article had a quote from a wall streeter who was Jewish. They had just released a large collection of indictments and this person recounted the shame and dread he felt upon seeing that so many of the targets of the indictments had Jewish surnames.

So rather than being mad at Charles, I do hope that his comments lead to even more discussion about some of the pathologies within our community

[Cha]

34. Thank you for that, BronxBoy

[BronxBoy]

25. That's not what he is saying......

Unfortunately, there are some segments within our culture that have some screwed up priorities. He's just speaking to that.

[AndreaCG]

31. I'm a college basketball fan. A big one

Watch well over a hundred games in the regular season plus the tournaments. Not just my team or those in their conference but the mid majors too. And the women. And I can tell you with certainty that I, and the posters on my basketball internet board, consider Barkley a total ignoramus when he works the NCAA tournament. Embarrassingly so. It's obvious he doesn't follow the college game till he's paid to do so. I have no idea how good or bad he is at announcing the NBA, but this knowledge of his performance leads me to believe he's a fool in many areas.

[ProfessorGAC]

97. He Has Very Strong Knowledge of the NBA Game

Past and presesnt. He's also quite sharp and glib. You may be right about his knowledge of the college game, but he's no fool about the pro game. If fact, i've seen little evidence that he is a fool of any kind, whether one agrees with this recent statement or not.

[Maedhros]

105. And really, his performance as a basketball color commentator has no bearing

on the quality of the substance of his comments on race.

[kwassa]

112. Indeed, his comments on race have very little quality.

[NCTraveler]

39. Charles not black enough for ya.

Your op just made his case.

[FSogol]

40. Unrec. Klan robes?

[R.Quinn]

85. Agreed.

OP went way too far.

[dilby]

41. Is he wrong or right?

If the black community does not do what he is saying then call him out on that, but don't say he is part of the KKK because he decries what he perceives as a problem in the black community.

I personally don't know if this happens or not, I am not black and can't say I have ever seen this happen before. There are other posters on here who have testified they have had this happen to them. I can't vouch for them but I have no reason to believe they are lying.

[bigwillq]

46. CB usually speaks the truth.

He does it again.

[demosincebirth]

59. Right on, Charles!

[ChazII]

64. Sir Charles on Jimmy Fallon in a few

minutes. It will be interesting to see what is said.

[Jamastiene]

65. African Americans are not a monolith.

Each individual has their own opinions. No, it does not mean he is trying to join the KKK. It just means he has his own opinion, just like any other person, regardless of their race.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

67. Barkley is right

I remember my former husband telling me this back in the early 1970's. He was born and raised in SE DC and attended an historical black university. In grade school he was accused of acting white and selling out just for getting good grades and expecting to do well with his life. His parents sent him and his brothers, to a private high school to get him away from the very bad influence.

Back then, before baggy pants were invented, the pimp limp went a long way to giving you street cred, lol. I thought it was bloody ridiculous and raised our son thousands of miles from DC.

Fuck that kind of "culture and organic social structures" as you put it.

I forgot all about this awful attitude until I saw Sir Charles talking about it. My son, completely without any street cred, managed to retire from the military this year.

[Paladin]

75. From what I've seen, Barkley lacks the standing to call ANYBODY unintelligent.

Stick to sports and lay off the social commentary, Mr. Barkley. You don't have the "cred" for the latter.

[Maedhros]

106. Pot, meet kettle. [n/t]

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. I think much of what he says can be said about young men in general.

Look at any high school top ten graduates photo, you see very few boys.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

84. I suspect if this was a "Hey, look at this Uncle Tom" post....

....you failed badly.

[ReverendDeuce]

88. Epic reactionary butthurt thread! LOL! Barkleygate BEGINS!

Overly sensitive types staging a mass freak out when a black person speaks from their point of view. If it's not the teabaggers running around calling everyone racist it's the liberals too!

I can't facepalm hard enough when I see the hand-wringing that goes on here sometimes... Good God almighty!

[bravenak]

102. Funny he brings up lawbreaking.

http://deadspin.com/5121873/charles-barkley-i-was-gonna-drive-around-the-corner-and-get-a-blow-job-



I love the way he plays plantation Foreman for White America. "I tell my White Friends....."

So, he publicly bashes us for their benefit and his own ego, while his own dirty laundry stinks. And just look how easily so many have taken his bait.

They say to themselves, "look! That black guy agrees with us!" Knowing he is just regurgitating the same crap that they have been feeding him and us and themselves since we landed here in chains.

Now he can comfort himself, that he is an acceptable negro. The bad ones are over there.

[JonLP24]

116. Basically all over what seems to be a manufactured controversy

I've heard nothing but good things about Wilson's support from the locker room way before the Super Bowl and here comes this quote out of nowhere which Sherman said wasn't true and couldn't really see it. Despite some of the public's prejedices and preconceived notions he is far from the only educated, well-spoken black-athlete even on that team. Seeing how the team came to Lynch's (who was required to attend Super Bowl media events but has big-time social phobia) aid & defense told me everything I needed to know about the locker room and the support they show for each other.

[JonLP24]

117. Here are the mistakes he is making

First I reasonably believe he is factoring some personal experience into this which may be more of a reality in the time or place he grew up and he is far from the first person to ever utter such a thing but I agree it isn't as widespread he seems to suggest.

Part of the era which I gather from fiction (I know, not really reliable) of other races is generally the ones who did well or aimed to be smart were not popular or dissed by the slackers. My experience in high school which was a little over a decade ago was different. In Flagstaff, the coolest dude not just by me but what seemed general opinion (I thought if I smoked as much weed as him I'd be like him) chastised me for not doing the assignment. He always seemed to attempt, complete, and turn in school work.

There were no stereotypical groups. There were stoners on the football team, the HS in Flagstaff I had a sudden unexplained brief interest from girls including 2 cheerleaders and even though I could play sports no one there knew that. In Mesa things were skewed by the high Mormon population who were by-and-large goody two-shoes but popular based on volume but were on the sports, student body, etc.

Generally anyone that looked and behaved radically different were picked on and class clowns were always the most popular but in my time the ones who choose to be class clowns were good at. Not likely someone choosing to disrupt with something legitimately not funny.

On edit - we had a few African exchange students but the few we did have weren't bullied much because they fought back. I attempted a crumbled up paper ball at a friend (can't remember why but I think we were throwing them at each other) but since it is hard to throw them with any sort of a degree of accuracy it landed on the exchange student which I tried to say was accidentally and meant for someone else he misunderstood it another way. After class he grabbed me by my throat and lifted me a couple inches off the ground. Then there was another incident with another student that I can't remember the details but based on a low self-tolerance for bullying.

The other thing he conflates is street cred. Street cred is important on the streets no matter the race. If you care about your status on the streets than it is important, otherwise I don't see the issue. I'm not at all interested in contributing to this nation's massive incarceration rate but lack of arrests, tattoos, clothing style, etc made me suspected the few times it came up but didn't care since it isn't something I'm interested in building since I don't earn income through illegal means (though you can rip off a hell a lot of more at-the-top legally).

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

118. Thanks so much for this discussion.

I think your points are well made.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

119. I think folks who are co-signing with Barkley's oversimplistic assumptions about us

black folk and our supposed "lack of intelligence" would do well to read the other thread on this story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025725946

Then, please read Ta-Nehisi Coates' absolutely brilliant rebuttal regarding the Barkley remarks.

It's long but really good:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...blacks/382022/