Say someone comes back from treating Ebola patients in Liberia,

[Nye Bevan]

checks their temperature the next day and has no fever, so takes the subway to the gym to do a vigorous workout, sweating like a dog all over the equipment, uses the locker room, showers, etc., then takes the subway back home (still somewhat sweaty from the workout). When he gets home he realizes he doesn't feel great, takes his temperature, and turns out to have a fever. Obviously at some point during his day he became symptomatic, but is not sure of exactly when (he's not checking his temperature every 5 minutes).

Does anyone see any problem with this scenario? Is it possible that self-quarantine for 21 days at home, with compensation paid for any lost wages, is a reasonable thing?

[Texasgal]

1. This very same scenario happens

everyday during flu season. Oh, and people die. Alot of people do.

[Nye Bevan]

2. Ebola has a much, much higher mortality rate than flu (nt)

[MFM008]

3. The 1918 flu

Killed millions. Don't discount it. Flu worked faster than ebola, shutting down breathing in hours.

[WinkyDink]

7. The Spanish Flu has been eradicated. Ebola has not.

[Texasgal]

4. So?

The flu still kills and only one person has died in the US. Maybe we should forcibly quarantine people that have the flu... sure would cut down on deaths.

[WinkyDink]

6. We have vaccines.

[Texasgal]

8. And those vaccines do not cover

all strains.

Why do you think we have so many deaths annually?

Staying away from others, washing hands and using basic sanitation methods is what works. Why quarantine a non-symptomatic person when so many people will run around with the flu and spreading it? Hey, if we are gonna quarantine we might as well do it do it for flu as well. Right?

[cwydro]

22. And nobody in the apartment with Duncan when he was ill

ever got sick.

Remember?

[ecstatic]

11. Only 4 facilities in America are truly equipped

to treat Ebola, and collectively, they have 9 beds total. At THP, an ebola patient died. At Bellevue, Dr. Spencer is in serious condition, which might indicate that regular (non-bio-containment unit) hospitals just aren't good at treating ebola patients. I won't be surprised if he gets transferred soon.

On the other hand, every decent hospital is equipped to treat flu patients.

That is why some people aren't willing to take even the tiniest risk when it comes to ebola.

[Texasgal]

12. Americans still die however...

By the thousands. Annually.

[amandabeech]

19. Bellevue has transferred ICU patients to a sister hospital

because the demands on its ICU unit from the one Ebola patient are so high that it can't treat as many ICU patients as usual. Bellevue, part of the NYU hospital system, is a terrific place.

What this suggests is that the several hospitals, aside from the facilities you mention, designated to treat Ebola patients may only be able to manage one Ebola patient at a time and will be degrading their overall ability to care for other severely ill patients.

Why Dr. Spencer has not been sent to NIH at this point is beyond me, unless there is an effort to see how well lessons learned from the THP experience can allow regular hospitals to handle Ebola patients. If Dr. Spencer dies at Bellevue, it won't be a good sign.

[uppityperson]

5. The risk is negligible. Now dealing with puking diarrheal stuff, or dead bodies, that is more risky.

We get it, you want people detained without due process and without being a threat because at some time they might be.

Do you want all health care workers working with patients with ebola mandatorily quarantined, even in the USA? Why not?

[seabeyond]

9. still very low risk. high virus load, that is someone dying. that is not the beginning of a fever.

even at the beginning of a low fever, the risk is nil.

no. i do not see a problem with this.

[seabeyond]

10. lets say a medical team is treating an ebola patient in the u.s.you want to quarantine medical staff

do we quarantine them after each shift, and ALL supporting roles, or do we lock them up at the hospital to care for the patient until the person is virus free or dead, and then start their 21 day isolation?

[Texasgal]

15. I wish someone would barf on me so I can

take a 21 day vacation!

I'm an RN so I should be eligible right?

[seabeyond]

16. lol texas. isnt this frightening? yet, just for those people, none of us people.

i have only had one person acknowledge this question and he was yes... isolate. though would not say lock staff up until the cure or victim dies, or a new shift, then isolation.

all the people i have asked and not one would answer

but on thread after thread advocating medical staff, giving their lives to care for ebola victims, who knows the disease, the play out of the disease, the danger of the disease, the effects of the disease and often the ending results of the disease, these people trying to end an epidemic, .... need to be the ones locked up.

not a single bit of gd sense.

[cwydro]

20. Perfect post Sea.

Has there been any response?

[seabeyond]

23. one. said lock em up. no clarity if after each shift, or lock them into care and then quarantine.

one in 5 days asking.

oh oh oh, and compensated pay too. amazing what we will give away out of fear, but need? fuck that shit.

[greatlaurel]

13. Your scenario at the very basic level is fear mongering and racism.

Why are you not calling for all the health care workers here in the US who have treated Ebola patients be quarantined? Why are you only calling for the health care workers who volunteered in West Africa be quarantined? This is classic divide and conquer propaganda based on racism and fear, because you are only concerned about the health care workers returning from West Africa.

Amber Vinson did not infect anyone when she flew on the airplane. The CDC and MSF guidelines have been more than sufficient to protect public health. The fact is no one in the US has gotten sick from treating Ebola patients except for the two nurses at Texas Presbyterian who were not given adequate protective gear because the hospital administrators decided to ignore the CDC recommendations from earlier this year about being alert and prepared for patients ill with Ebola.

I am shocked and saddened to see this ugly propaganda promoted on this site.

[seabeyond]

18. yes. i really want to know why we have a better ebola and the people over there had the worse ebola

i thought ebola was ebola. lock them up? lock ours up.

days and days asking the same people that repeatedly advocate locking up workers, and only one says... lock ours up too. we certainly would go thru medical staff fast. lock them up after a shift? then bring in a new team. or ock them in hospital for duration, then 21 day isolation upon death or virus free

[greatlaurel]

29. These people act like health care workers are in endless supply.

There is no reason to basically put health care workers into house arrest. They are of no risk to the public until they develop symptoms of the disease.

The obtuseness seems deliberate.

The pathetic twisting of the facts to try to scare people is infuriating, but they are revealing themselves for all to see.

[seabeyond]

30. these are the medical people, actually dealing with the illness. know what it does. preventing the

spread of the disease.

being accused of willy nilly with others health not caring if they give it to others. and of course, allowing themselves to die of a horrible disease they have been in constant contact combating.

what i am sick and fuckin' tired of is the unreasonable lack of logic people are arguing with.

[greatlaurel]

34. Spot on!

The lack of logic is astounding.

[riderinthestorm]

26. + 1000 nt

[greatlaurel]

27. Thank you!

The ugly twins of racism and anti-science ignorance are starting to get really out of control here.

[riderinthestorm]

31. I've actually wondered if the vitriol against Amber Vinson was race related...

[greatlaurel]

33. While I cannot think of a way to prove it, I think you are correct.

The reaction was beyond reason.

[morningfog]

14. No problem. No actual risk to anyone.

[Cal Carpenter]

21. This^

I've seen some debate about whether or not it can be transferred by sweat even when the viral load is very high later in the course of the disease. But assuming it can, if the person's first symptom is fever and it just started around that time, their viral load is minimal. You'd basically have to get a blood transfusion or have extremely intimate contact involving lots of body fluids or something for it to transfer to another person at that point. Even that may be a stretch.

The 'what-ifs' are driving me crazy around here. You'd think there hadn't been 40 years and thousands of cases to research this along with the current info.

The places where ebola is widespread are primarily places where families and neighborhoods and communities deal with the folks who are ill and deal directly with the bodies of their dead - take care of them and bury them. That is when and to whom most of these cases are occurring. It is not comparable. Not to mention the healthcare infrastructure in most of the areas that it is concentrated.

All cases that originated in the US have been health care workers, and their protocols when treating people with ebola are getting tightened up and improved, and more and more facilities are prepared. (I always have massive concerns about our healthcare infrastructure, but so far it is doing way better than I would have predicted, btw).

There are a lot of things we can do do prevent ebola from spreading in the US, many of them are being done, other things could be improved, but forcing quarantines on people with NO symptoms and negative test results is not going to help, in fact many in the health care community fear that it can have negative consequences.

Aaaaaaaahhh /rant off.

[greatlaurel]

24. Righteous rant, thank you for the facts.

I appreciate it.

[etherealtruth]

17. How many people returned from treating folk with Ebola in west Africa ...

... prior to Mr. Duncan's death (his death was the starting point for the media frenzy)? How many cases of ebola resulted from these folk living their lives?

[uppityperson]

25. Pssst, dogs don't sweat, they pant to cool down.

[magical thyme]

28. the only problem I see is that it is highly unlikely that the day after returning from

Last edited Wed Oct 29, 2014, 11:06 PM - Edit history (1)

a grueling month of intense, exhausting and heartbreaking work, followed by 15-20 hours of international travel, somebody is not likely to head to the gym for a vigorous workout.

And immediately after a vigorous workout your temperature probably will be elevated. However, after you have showered, you will not still be sweaty.

But seriously, Ebola is not very contagious in its earliest stages. I'm trusting the medical science on this one. The politicians need to stop trying to score political points and act responsibly. So far, other than President Obama, they are not.

The nurses that caught it were treating Duncan after he was highly contagious, when his body fluids were "out of control" in the words of the doctor, and they were involved with higher risk procedures. Pham was involved when he was intubated and with his dialysis. Vinson catheterized him and drew blood. He had projectile vomit, which aerosolizes into very small droplets and sends them a distance. I don't even want to think about explosive diarrhea.

[uppityperson]

32. And dogs don't sweat. But hey, science, facts.

[customerserviceguy]

35. What you're forgetting

is that anybody who treats Ebola patients is somehow immune from the disease, because they're doing the Lord's work.

See, problem solved!

Do I really need the sarcasm thingy?

[polichick]

36. Of course it's reasonable...

People here act as if health workers will know the second they become contagious.