General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time to get mad about the outrageous cost of health care - Consumer Reports
Person for person, health care in the U.S. costs about twice as much as it does in the rest of the developed world. In fact, if our $3 trillion health care sector were its own country, it would be the worlds fifth-largest economy.
If you have health insurance, you may think it doesnt matter because someone else is paying the bill. Youd be wrong. This countrys exorbitant medical costs mean that we all pay too much for health insurance. Overpriced care also translates into fewer raises for American workers. And to top it off, were not even getting the best care for our money.
First, be aware that even if you have insurance, it doesnt always fully protect you. Four years ago, Joclyn Krevat, a 32-year-old occupational therapist from New York City, collapsed with a rare heart condition and ended up needing an emergency heart transplant. She had it done at a hospital in her health plans network, but no one bothered to tell her that her transplant surgeons didnt take her insurance. They billed her $70,000 and sent collection agencies and lawyers after her while she was still home recuperating. In studying the problem, Consumer Reports has heard dozens of similar tales about surprise out-of-network bills. (If you have one, consider sharing it with us).
Second, higher health care costs mean higher health insurance premiums for everyone. Its Health Insurance 101: Insurance is about pooling risk. Thats a good thing because it protects you against unexpected costsbut companies have to collect enough in premiums to pay for members health expenses. The higher the expenses for the risk pool, the higher the premiums for everyoneeven if you received little or none of that care.
And if youre wondering why you cant get ahead financially, blame it on the fact that health care is eating your raises. Since 2000, incomes have barely kept up with inflation and insurance premiums have more than doubled. The average employer family health plan that cost companies $6,438 per staffer in 2000 shot up to $16,351 by 2013. Thats money that could have gone into your paycheck but didnt because your employer had to spend it on your health insurance instead.
The kicker: We dont get much for our money. In a 2013 Commonwealth Fund study of 11 developed countries health care systems, the U.S. ranked fifth in quality and worst for infant mortality. We also did the worst job of preventing deaths from treatable conditions, such as strokes, diabetes, high blood pressure, and certain treatable cancers. (See graph, below).
Made-up prices and a yen for brand-name hospitals
All of which brings us to the big question: Why exactly is our health care so expensive?
Health care works nothing like other market transactions. As a consumer, you are a bystander to the real action, which takes place between providershospitals, doctors, labs, drug companies, and device manufacturersand the private and governmental entities that pay them. Those same providers are also pushing Americans into newer and more expensive treatments, even when theres no evidence theyre any better.
More here: http://consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/11/it-is-time-to-get-mad-about-the-outrageous-cost-of-health-care/index.htm
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)getting charged for this and that. al money out of pocket even with insurance, cause a 15k fuckin deductible.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)What a great return on investment. K&R
jwirr
(39,215 posts)an insurance based medical system?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The problem is there is too much money in a closed system. That invariably results in inflation.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)but maybe the hospital's absurdly ridiculous charges are why they try to get out of paying.
Why isn't anyone looking at the costs at hospitals?
Now we are forced to have insurance with 30% copays, is it time to start regulating costs at hospitals?
30% is way to much for people to pay
In Japan an MRI cost $97
subterranean
(3,427 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Autumn
(45,042 posts)a generic brand of another medication that only costs me $60.00 which doesn't work as well. But hell it's better than no medication. Thanks Billy.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)msongs
(67,394 posts)as they are licensed by "the state" the state has the power to require this. Then we can have some good old fashioned competition between practitioners.
physioex
(6,890 posts)It is the drug companies, device manufacturers, and insurance companies.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)There are many reasons why healthcare costs are rising. The cost of technology, increased paperwork and administrative overhead, rising insurance rates, cost recovery from nonpayers, and many others. Even the doubling of American obesity rates in recent decades has been cited as a cause (obese people require more healthcare, driving up costs for everyone). Tackling any one of these issues will make little difference to the overall costs, and our ADHD government doesn't have the focus or attention span to tackle them all at once.
Initech
(100,060 posts)They all need to be locked up and have the keys tossed.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)every damned year.
It's criminal.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)And the facts are these. For employer-based insurance in 2014, the increase was 3%:
This years increase continues a recent trend of moderate premium growth. Premiums increased more slowly over the past five years than the preceding five years (26 percent vs. 34 percent) and well below the annual double-digit increases recorded in the late 1990s and early 2000s. This years increase also is similar to the year-to-year rise in workers wages (2.3 percent) and general inflation (2 percent).
Annual premiums for worker-only coverage stand at $6,025 this year. Workers on average contribute $1,081 toward the cost of worker-only coverage this year.
http://kff.org/health-costs/press-release/employer-sponsored-family-health-premiums-rise-3-percent-in-2014/
For small business coverage, premiums rose by just 1% this year:
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/small-businesses-see-only-a-small-increase-in-health-premiums/
For individual coverage on the private market, through Obama care, it's too early to tell. It hasn't been in force a year yet, and next year's premiums are not set. Tens of thousands of people got Medicaid coverage, and more received government reductions for regular private plans. We do know the number of uninsured has dropped significantly.
Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)And don't say single-payer, because that won't do much re: the COST of health care with respect to the overall system. Because a $3,000 MRI scan is still gonna cost $3,000 no matter if a private insurance company is paying or the government is paying.
So what's the answer? Stop getting expensive radiology scans and so forth that can and do detect issues that can be treated so as to save lives or relieve suffering? People just quit using the health care system? Stop trying to find cures or new, better medications for diseases or maladies that will save lives or relieve suffering? People just need to suffer more, like in the good ol' days? Government price controls (because AFAIK those rarely work, price controls only serves to reduce supply)?
This isn't intended to be snark. I'm truly interested. What is the answer?
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)who provide the treatments screw everyone over and pretend they aren't.
So that $3000 test may only cost a few hundred elsewhere, but people here are so used to being screwed over they think that is normal. It doesn't even occur to people that they have created the very thing that is going to be their undoing.
The real chains that bind, not the metal ones that are so easy to take off, are still attached as tightly as they ever were.
Just like the thieving banksters and their friends in the political parties manipulated the economy to take more of the results of our labor, destroyed, the thieving healthcare industry and the politicians they own have become far more devoted to profit than people. It would take pain and death, just like we are going through now with jobs, housing, etc, to blow up and then re-organize health care for the people. But it's really just a symptom of a country being run by the .01%.
It's not broken, it's designed to be exactly what it is. To change it is going to take more than just fixing "health care". That's just a task to keep people distracted from the larger picture.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Instead, spending decisions sit squarely in the lap of those profiting from those very decisions.
It's Weaponized Capitalism.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)at the top on the other side.
And they are telling US what to do?
No, seriously. That's really a big mis-match. Seriously?
Sounds more like we are just giving up.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Unity requires a strong leader, structure, strategy and clear goals.
You wanna step up, Laffin' Jack? I sure don't know how one does that, but you seem to know.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)different.
Or maybe just people who are more willing to work with their neighbors than they are to worry about the master's house burning down.
I step up all the time. Didn't see you there. Maybe that's why...
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Instead of sharpening your snark, jumping to rotten conclusions--- on people who are ALREADY ON YOUR SIDE.
yeesh.
spooky3
(34,429 posts)Or watch the public TV videos on YouTube.
He visits several countries with lower costs and better outcomes, and describes the advantages and disadvantages of each system.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)1. Medical expenses are the one area where a patient can't even get a cost estimate....prices are arbitrary, as may studies have shown.
And there is little oversight.
In contrast, THESE doctors have taken the rip off prices head on:
In Oklahoma City, one surgical center is successfully reducing the price tag for their procedures by thousands of dollars and encouraging nearby hospitals to follow suit.
Whats the secret?
The two doctors who started the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, Dr. Keith Smith and Dr. Steven Lantier, are committed to charging fair prices, and they founded their hospital with the goal of price transparency. What weve discovered is health care really doesnt cost that much, Dr. Smith told KFOR-TV. What people are being charged for is another matter altogether.
They have been posting all of their prices online for the past several years, and they charge significantly less than other hospitals in the area.
2. Pharma monopoly on drug prices in this company, to the extent they have had laws written to prevent people from getting cheap drugs elsewhere.
Europe and Canada do not do this.
I have challenged the cost of care by calling the clinics and hospitals where I have had to have tests and care and asking them for the charges before I make my appointment.
This has been a very eye opening exercise.
Fortunately, there is a thing called The Patient Rights law that says we can get all sorts of info, and once I wave that around, I get answers.
Actually, last week when making a testing appt. with a new doctor office, I was pleasantly surprised to have them tell me what they would charge my insurance and what I would have to co-pay for, before I confirmed the appt.
Bottom line, we as patients are too silent and need to educate ourselves and make the docs listen to us.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Since no one else is doing consumer education.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)or lying. Single payer, whether implemented here as Medicare or in the civilized countries across the board, costs a fraction of private insurance per capita. 20% of what we pay is profits.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Don't like that? Socialized med like the UK
Omaha Steve
(99,573 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Administrative costs are a big part of the problem and where we would find considerable savings of we had a single payer system....
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-10/the-reason-health-care-is-so-expensive-insurance-companies
It kind of reminds me of how the budgets of so many churches has grown out of control because they are constantly building larger churches.
KG
(28,751 posts)woohoo!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's like social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the voting rights act all rolled into one!!
frazzled
(18,402 posts)If you haven't been reading all the analysis, health care costs are significantly down; premiums have risen at record low rates; and more people are insured than ever before.
But don't believe the facts, believe your inner thoughts.
bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)they just announced. 2014 was the first year they didn't have an increase in ages, and 2015 will be the first year with a reduction in premiums, ever. That's in spite of improving coverage to comply with ACA regs.
Its a huge problem to fix, and it was left to festered away for far too long, but it is getting better now.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)So what? Heritage Care has two goals
1. Guarantee billions in profits for Big Insurance
2. Get democrats on board with a far right republican plan
To those ends it has been an unqualified success
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)the insurance companies, providers & pharmaceuticals are going to f*** us for every penny they can squeeze out of us or deny us service ~ because they can. insurance will only cover so much - and we must pay the rest. period.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Single Payer and getting real about costs. No more $12 per Band-Aid anymore, no gouging on medical costs.
No more CEOs skimming off millions and millions at the top. Get it back to what it was pre HMO - bookkeepers and a boss for the bookkeepers making good money but not obscene money. Get it, as Margaret Flowers has said, back to where you're greeted at the desk with what can we do for you rather than how do you plan to pay.
For profit health care is a scam and it's basically only us among industrialized non backwater nations.
malthaussen
(17,184 posts)Somehow, I am reminded of the old Premature anti-Fascists who objected to Hitler and his ilk long before it was fashionable, and were rewarded with suspicion and prejudice when it became fashionable.
-- Mal
hunter
(38,309 posts)The more money flowing through their systems, the more they can skim off.
The more they can squeeze doctors and patients, the more money they can skim off. Frustrating the patient with denials and hoops to jump through, partial or late payouts, and cutting the time a doctor spends with a patient today will often means the patient will return with more serious and expensive problems later, problems that might have been prevented.
It also doesn't help that bad medical debts can be traded like baseball cards, or that pharmaceutical companies can set prices wherever they wish before their patents expire and sometimes longer by various underhanded political and marketing schemes.
It's a system of very perverse incentives and the non-medical financial people with multi-million dollar incomes like it that way.
JEB
(4,748 posts)yellowwoodII
(616 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)K&R
staggerleem
(469 posts)... is from BEFORE the Obamacare exchanges were opened.
A year ago at the beginning of October, when that messy roll-out began, my company re-negotiated our health insurance plan with Company U. The new plan featured $3,000 deductibles, and a family out-of-pocket maximum of around $15,000. The HR department encouraged us all to open Health Savings Accounts, so we could at least pay the deductilbes and o-o-p expenses with pre-tax money.
This year, at LESS expense to the company, we have a new plan, with ZERO deductible (in-network, $500 out-of network), a max family o-o-p of $2000, and a MUCH better prescription plan. Our biggest problem now is figuring out how to use the cash in our HSAs (which we can no longer contribute to with our deductibles so low), without incurring a penalty.
So, believe it or not, the ACA IS WORKING! Yes, we STILL pay more than any of the other "big-boy" countries, but the curve IS being deflected downwards.