"Women wouldn’t mind catcalling ‘if all the guys were hot"

[davidn3600]

On Saturday, CNN Newsroom hosted a discussion of the now-infamous catcalling video in which a woman filmed herself getting catcalled and propositioned by men on the street more than 100 times over the course of 10 hours of walking in New York City.

Anchor Fredricka Whitfield welcomed stand-up comic Amanda Seales and Steve Santagati, author of The MANual: A True Bad Boy Explains How Men Think, Date, and Mate and a new book called Code of Honor.

---

“No, no,” Santagati protested. “I’m more of an expert than you and I’ll tell you why. Cos I’m a guy and I know how we think, more than you guys will ever know. I can’t get in a woman’s head any more than just like, uh, thinking about it.”

“The bottom line is this, ladies,” he went on, “you would not care if all these guys were hot. They would be bolstering your self-esteem, bolstering your ego. There is nothing more that a woman loves to hear than how pretty she is.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/bad-boy-mens-writer-women-wouldnt-mind-catcalling-if-all-the-guys-were-hot/

[seabeyond]

1. this mans argument is, he is expert on how guys think, cause he is a guy, so let me tell you WOMEN

how you think?

did i get that correct?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. is this a classic example of mansplainin' or do I misunderstand the concept?

all I know is I don't care what he thinks and I hope I never hear or see the name again.

[seabeyond]

10. so... mansplain' 101. and all you guys getting bothered, i do not use the word

just sayin' ya tuesday, this would be an in your face.... mansplainin'

so. i did not misread or interpret that wrong? correct? the audacity actually has me laughing.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. I have never used the word either but, dang ...

I can see why it evolved.

[Warpy]

24. Oh, yeah, this is total mansplaining

[KMOD]

11. Yup!

[seabeyond]

12. that takes guts to be such a blatant, in your face hypocrite, right there on camera. lol. thanks.

i just knew i had to be reading that incorrectly. and lookie, not. lol. absurd.

[KMOD]

18. He doesn't need guts, he's stupid. :)

[seabeyond]

21. I have never been able to grasp that level of stupid. Nt

[Warpy]

25. I think it's the selective deafness that bothers me

the most about mansplainers. They go to their male buddies when they want to know something about women, buddies who are equally deaf and equally ignorant. The last thing any of them would ever consider doing is asking a woman.

[Fumesucker]

26. A former neighbor of mine was and is a big time catcaller

Not particularly good looking and definitely not well educated or wealthy but he's about to turn fifty in a year or two and he's living with a cute natural blonde twenty year old, I don't care for him but the girlfriend is actually fairly nice and not actively stupid, just ignorant and naive. The irony is they have a daughter now who is about two and very cute, he adores her and there is no doubt in my mind that he will go ballistic at anyone who says a word to that little girl but he won't relate that to his own behavior.

The more aggressive catcalling you see is just a sales technique, in Jamaica some of the street vendors there have exactly the same attitude about selling every tourist their stuff that you see from the more aggressive catcallers, they latch onto someone and follow them while trying every verbal trick in the book to close a sale. It works often enough that it's profitable for both the street vendors and the catcallers. Do it to every single tourist and some will not be able to say no, do it to every single woman/girl and some will not be able to say no.

"Suave Porsche driving studs who get their conversation from People Magazine" was how one smart and attractive woman I knew described the guys who constantly hit on her while she lamented all the smart men she actually wanted to meet would never presume to speak to her.

Women get so used to tuning out the jerks that a non jerk has a difficult time breaking through the reserve and caution women understandably develop, it's a wonder any of us ever connect at all I think sometimes.

[mercuryblues]

39. Your

Last sentence is spot on.

Imagine a woman walking down the street. She hears hey baby I wanna f you. 15 minutes later she hears nice boobies, can I touch them. A few minutes later a nice guy just says hello. By then she is fed up and he is going to get the brunt of her anger.

Is it fair. Yes and no. Until these nice guys start shaming other men for their obscene behavior, until they stop defending this behavior as benign they own it.

[Warpy]

43. Vendors are trying to sell something

Catcallers are just showing off for their male mates while informing women that they're just pieces of meat who don't deserve to be in the world unless they're being used by some man.

Haymarket vendors in Boston calling out their stuff can be pretty funny sometimes and they pick on both sexes. It's different and we all know it.

Your neighbor will be pushing up daisies when his daughter has to deal with jerks like him. He will never know who and what he really is.

[seabeyond]

44. he is probably teaching the daughter, right here and now, that this is her worth, ....

and will be one to say, i NEED a man to catcall me to let me know i have worth.

interesting

[Fumesucker]

48. I specifically mentioned the more aggressive ones

The men who follow and try to get a conversation going, evidently something some women find particularly creepy.

It's a high pressure sales technique and they are using it to get what they want.

It's a technique that works often enough that it pays off for men who just don't give a shit what anyone thinks. Like anything else humans do hitting on the opposite sex is subject to the practice effect, you get better at it the more you do it. If a guy is really comfortable talking to and flirting with women he's more than likely done a lot of it. If a guy hits on a few hundred women every day sooner or later he's going to find one who can't say no. And the thing is when someone gets to that point the behavior is compulsive, they don't stop at one woman, or two, or six.

He'll be in his early sixties when the kid hits puberty, I think he's forty eight or maybe forty nine now.

[davidn3600]

20. He did blow himself up there...

...of course whenever someone has to remind you they are an "expert," it's usually trouble ahead.

[LWolf]

36. Yes.

Being an expert on men makes one an expert on everything.

Or, to be more clear, being male at all makes one an expert on everything female.

[Iggo]

42. You got that exactly correct.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. We DO like to hear we're pretty---from people we know and RESPECT, idiot. n/t

[Hatchling]

49. Being told that can be an ego boost.

But I'd rather be complemented on how smart I am, or kind or creative. I can live without pretty but it's really great when someone notices the awesome things that make up your insides. The outside fades quickly enough.

[treestar]

3. Telling us what we want and think

With the usual condescending "ladies" address.

[geek tragedy]

4. Sexist jerk offers sexist commentary on sexism.

Is this asswipe the best CNN could find?

[Recursion]

5. I hear this one from MRA types more and more lately

"It's only harassment of she doesn't find the guy attractive", etc. Not sure of the best tack to take on that one; it's like a lot of men need to simultaneously feel less entitled (sex is not a commodity women have and are denying them unjustly) and more empowered (their sense of self worth should not depend on how many women want to have sex with them).

[Rozlee]

13. That's exactly what he sounds like.

He's the kind of guy that we would never want to date because he was so slimy and we knew he had no respect for us. And no, thank you, we don't consider catcalls compliments. I'd always feel frightened and threatened when men would whistle and catcall to me in my younger days. I was a tiny person, just 5 feet tall and 90 pounds and I was always worried that I'd get followed and strangled or something since I was always having to catch the bus late in the evening for work or school. I can't believe men actually think that we're flattered by attentions like this when we're fearing instead that one of them might mean us harm.

[seabeyond]

16. actually, i have never seen a good looking man cat calling. maybe they do not need to resort to

that behavior. i was going thru my mind all the different experiences and i have thought about this when brought up in the past.

the good looking men kinda like.... just talk to women.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. Thank you for your honesty sea

On the one hand - he's telling us what we think. Not good.

On the other hand - there's you pointing out an observation I've had in my life.

I don't think all men engage in this behavior.

[A Little Weird]

32. I have seen really attractive men catcalling

It's very odd. I'm not a particularly attractive woman and I know that in regular interactions (at a party or a club or whatever) these guys wouldn't give me the time of day. They catcall to intimidate - not to try to compliment or get a date.

[Brickbat]

38. I have.

[treestar]

50. And notice the idea that what a woman finds attractive isn't fair or should not matter

That's the key. They don't think women should have choices on who they find attractive.

I heard that as late as the 70s. Being picky, I often didn't want to go out with someone who was asking. My family, females included, or female friends would be telling me I should give him a chance and I would find him attractive later. Totally obnoxious. No wonder some men feel entitled.

[Recursion]

51. I'm toying with this "empowered not entitled" idea.... I think it may be useful...

we'll see. But, yes, I totally agree with you: women are expected to just deal with men they don't like...

[CrispyQ]

53. This:

sex is not a commodity women have and are denying them unjustly

and this:

their sense of self worth should not depend on how many women want to have sex with them

It seems to me that our culture cultivates the sense of entitlement & it has gotten more extreme since I was a young woman.

[seabeyond]

55. porn and our constant entertainment tell them so. in your face insistence this is womans role

everywhere we turn. it was not to this constant extent even a decade ago, let alone two.

[kwassa]

6. Cable news is such a dire pit of stupidity.

It ain't news, it is filler by anyone with a pulse that can take up airtime.

Self-appointed "experts", everywhere.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. You are right, dude. I don't care what you think. n/t

[SunSeeker]

9. Catcalls and compliments are two completely different things.

And men know that. As do women.

[graegoyle]

45. Creeps don't.

[SunSeeker]

47. Yes they do. They are establishing their dominance over that woman with their catcall.

They know exactly what they are doing. Even the dumbest of the creeps knows he's not really trying to be nice.

[KMOD]

14. LOL, freakin' moron

[uppityperson]

15. My self esteem has nothing to do with strangers intrusive comments. What a moran.

[demwing]

19. “The bottom line is this...ladies”

An easy way to sound like a creep is to add the word 'ladies' to the end of things you say. It can be harmless too, but it just makes you a creep:

"Yeah after college I spent two years in the peace corps...ladies"

The more harmless it is, the more of a creep you become:

"I broke my arm. I need help...ladies?"

[DRoseDARs]

22. Just once, when someone mansplains this egregiously, I really wish...

...that the woman on the panel, on live television on a major network, would leap out of her chair without saying a word and start beating the ever-loving shit out of the asshole.

Never mind ... not just once. Every time.

[No Vested Interest]

23. Booooooooooo. nt

[eShirl]

27. "You'll shut up and LIKE it!"

No.

[Inkfreak]

28. I bet his book is just filled with great info....

[Le Taz Hot]

30. Any guy catcalling comes off as a total douche

no matter what he looks like. THAT'S what women think. It's like the guy you go out with that stares at anything in a skirt. He's CONSTANTLY on the make and you might as well not even be there. You could be the most beautiful woman in the world and he'd still be casting his eyes around the room looking for something better. I had more than one date in which I asked the hostess to call me a cab before the entre had arrived. A good reminder to those who are still dating, ALWAYS have cash with you. ALWAYS.

[CrispyQ]

54. Remember life without cell phones?

Dating would have been much less stressful with cell phones. Granted, pay phones were more plentiful back then. Hell, I remember when they didn't let you dial 911 for free. If you didn't have any coin, you were SOL. Showing my age here.

And yes, number one rule - always carry enough cab fare to get yourself home. Actually, not a bad rule at any age, any gender.

[Ilsa]

31. And by extension, we would like rape if the perp is handsome?

His logic fails.

[Trailrider1951]

33. Look, I don't care if it's George Clooney, Harrison Ford, Billy Dee Williams, or some other good-

looking man. Talk to me as if I am an intelligent Human Being, and not some piece of ass you'd like to grab hold of. Jeez.

[boston bean]

34. This is a guys way of making him a victim of his own bad behavior.

ie, it's the ladies who aren't nice. Cause if I was good looking they wouldn't mind.

Trying to deflect by making women appear to be superficial and mean.

[chrisa]

35. Ohhhhh. He's a Bad Boy! He's so cool!

[Brickbat]

37. .

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[spanone]

40. appropriate cnn brings in comedian to discuss this since they are the Comedy News Network

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. During Spring Break there was a trend where groups of males and females would hold up signs...

During Spring Break there was a trend where groups of males and females would hold up signs and grade males and females on a score of 1-10 as they walked by. Females were more likely to hold up signs than men.

On the other hand a young woman friend of mine asked me to walk with her on the beach during Bike Week because she didn't feel comfortable.

[MADem]

46. Why are they bouncing this topic off a ... comic?

There's nothing amusing going on here. It's verbal assault. You don't need to frame it with comedy or even a "lifestyles" author because there's nothing funny about this, and it's not a lifestyle choice to abuse or be abused on the street.

Major fail, CNN.

[SheilaT]

52. For some lucky reason I've experienced

almost no cat-calling or harassment when out in public. Probably I was rarely walking around places where that happens, and I'm remarkably capable of ignoring things like that. But even something at a low level, such as being commanded to smile, is highly irritating.

It has nothing to do with how attractive a woman is, although I'm sure it happens even more to the young and attractive, but has everything to do with (as others have said many times) the notion that no woman is truly an independent operator.

It feels very flattering when a man talks to me as a person, especially an attractive man. But a vulgar shout-out from a total stranger? No.

[JonLP24]

56. That is the funny thing with these sort of things

The line on sexual harassment is when its unwanted.

I was there for marijuana position sitting in one of those court-side holding cells with 4 other people, woman walked by in regular clothes with a lawyer to the courtroom & lawyer boxes and this one guy went with the catcall of all catcalls and the 1 other started to join in and all attention focused. She clearly appeared miserable for whatever reason arriving there but she enjoyed the attention he was getting from him or doing a very good job of pretending to and that misery, unhappy-to-be-there look was gone. Guard was making empty threats pointing at him & me, which was odd because I showed the least much less expressed attention to her of everyone in there.

The guy that started it all said it was all home which followed the same guy saying me too, none of these other guys had anything to do with it. We all could overhear the guard acknowledge what the other guy said but that he didn't care about him because he didn't bug him unlike the first guy.

Before all this he knew he was going away for 10 years, it was some sort of conference type of thing he was attending told me stories when he previously was in prison held at the Morey Unit which seemed to be a very violent place based on what he was telling me so after the guard threat to charge him or us or something, he expressed concern over what was behind the threat "I can't go to prison with no sex charge." I explained for him to be guilty of sexual harassment would require her to press charges and he relaxed immediately given the unlikeliness based on her reaction.

I could never do that because my mom never liked and remember it too often when she walked me down the street--uncomfortable for me too. Also aware of the line--the Army actually goes with a "tell him/her not to do it again -- sexual advances, staring, etc" then if they do it again then it is sexual harassment, sexual harassment policy. Bottom line, just don't do it.. the catcalling to strangers.