Tales from the Police State: Mow Your Lawn Or Else

[eridani]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/22/1338387/-Tales-from-the-Police-State-Mow-Your-Lawn-Or-Else

Stories like this should fall into the "absurd exception" category, if they didn't happen so often.

Karen Holloway just spent six hours in a jail cell for failing to maintain her yard in accordance with the standards set by the city.
The saga began last summer, when Holloway was sent a citation for her overgrown grass and shrubbery. Holloway, who works a full-time job and has two children living at home, a husband in school, and one family vehicle, admits the yard needed some attention but that it just wasn't feasible to do the work...
Holloway feels this was all just too much, saying, "It's not right. Why would you put me in jail with child molesters and people who've done real crimes, because I haven't maintained my yard."

This isn't the first case in South Carolina like this. Linda Ruggles couldn't pay $500 for loose shingles and spent six days in jail.

Stories like this usually don't get us excited because we think of them as uncommon. In fact they aren't that uncommon at all. After all, police arrest someone in this country every 2 seconds. We have 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's prisoners. That's a crisis by any standards.

Here are some random examples:

Man arrested for "passive aggressively" stabbing a watermelon

New Jersey threatens to take 13-year old from father for “Non-Conforming Behavior”

[Renew Deal]

1. Unmaintained lawns make the neighborhood look bad

One of the responsibilities of home ownership is cutting the grass. It doesn't matter if she does it or someone else does it for her. She doesn't even need to maintain the trees or bushes. But she has to cut the grass occasionally.

[demwing]

4. Why?

If its my property, and doesn't cause harm? What if I LIKE big bushy, overgrown lawns?

More importantly, why is non compliance deserving of jail time?

[theHandpuppet]

10. Great. Then you won't mind your property values going down, either

Last edited Sun Nov 2, 2014, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

I live across the street from some neighbors who do absolutely no maintenance on their large yard. The grass and weeds are thigh-high, the fences are falling or laying on the ground, bushes now look like something out of horror movie, carpets of poison ivy have now crept across of the porch and trees are growing out of their sidewalk. The yard is littered with garbage that gets caught up by the overgrowth and I've seen more than one rat dash out from this mess.

My wife & I invested out life savings in our home and not only is it such a lovely sight to see that mess smack your eyeballs every time we leave the house, when we decide to sell our home and retire, who the hell wants to buy a home across the street from a place that looks like a derelict crack house?

The owners of this home aren't poor; they're young, middle class professionals who bought what was once a nice old Victorian home but apparently found out home ownership requires that you do your own maintenance.

I don't believe anyone should go to jail for being an irresponsible neighbor but I do believe the city should work with folks like these and make some kind of agreement for basic upkeep.

[demwing]

17. Rats, trash, and broken fences are a far cry from an overgrown yard

I'm not saying that you shouldn't keep up your property, I'm saying that an overgrown yard can look beautiful, and that violating a "community standard" shouldn't be considered a criminal complaint.

[joeglow3]

44. That sure as shit doesn't look "beautiful"

[DisgustipatedinCA]

63. Yes, actually it does. You haven't been to the west coast, have you?

Enjoy your house in Disney's Sterile Acres development.

[joeglow3]

64. Enjoy your rat and snake infested yard.

With all those rodents making their way into your house.

If you call the absence of that sterile, then call me guilty.

[Sunlei]

102. garbage/food attracts rodents not plants. snakes eat rodents.

I've got lots of grass surrounded by acres of fields, never once used a weed killer or had any rodents in the house.

[Warpy]

167. That only happens if you throw meat and bones outdoors to attract them.

Yards here xeriscaped with native desert plants like chamisa and Spanish broom are beautiful, some blooming all summer. You just can't practice your putting on them.

My own yard is rather bare, a line of desert plants in front of the portal and a mulberry tree with low branches in the middle. It's neat and tidy and I never have to mow it.

Lawn crazy people just have no idea how beautiful meadows can be, whether temperate with bluebells or lupines or desert like we have here. If it doesn't look like a golf course, it must be bad and oh my great aunt Nellie it must be infested too.

[LanternWaste]

181. The pasteurized and delicate complacency of the Righteous Urban Dweller is bemusing.

The pasteurized and delicate complacency of the Righteous Urban Dweller is bemusing.



(I thought I'd add as much melodramatic to my post as you did to yours... and though I now certainly do understand the visceral yet ineffectual self-satisfaction that comes from doing so, I don't think I'll do it again-- I can't act like a third grader anywhere as well as others...)

Rat and Snake Infested Yard. Lordy!

[stevenleser]

185. You mean suburban. Urban dwellers don't have yards. nt

[leftyladyfrommo]

197. We have subdivisions here where things are left wild.

I really like it. They have planted tons and tons of daffodils up there and every spring the whole place just looks amazing. Lots of wild flowers. It's a very upscale area and it really looks good like that.

[Mojorabbit]

153. It does to me

I don't like yards manicured to within an inch of their lives. I love a more natural look.

[Eleanors38]

229. I logged my yard a year ago, neighbor cats are pissed.

[theHandpuppet]

48. Believe me, that looks like the Taj Mahal compared to their yard

And they don't neglect it because they give a crap about the environment, either.

[Jamastiene]

108. Thank you.

I do have my yard mowed several times each summer. When I do, it puts the rest of the neighbors' houses to shame as far as being beautiful. The thing is, it does get tall in between being mowed and most of it is wildflowers and some planted flowers as well. They just don't always bloom every season of the year. My home, itself, is maintained much better than any of the other homes in this area of my neighborhood, besides that one across the street and to the right. I think they use fingernail clippers, a micrometer, and calipers to keep even a single blade of grass from touching the retaining wall down at the road. They have two "ferocious" min pins that drive me nuts by barking at me (the only dogs I have ever met that don't seem to like me) when I try to go out in my own yard, but I can ignore that as they keep them on leashes and are with them.

The point is, that even in between when my yard gets mowed, it's still nice looking and my home is well maintained. I don't get mowing every inch of yard around a house. It is not necessary. When I lived in the city limits, I had to mow even more often, because the city required it. There is a difference between something becoming a huge health hazard and something just a little overgrown.

[lunasun]

126. Very nice and natural

[Travis_0004]

134. where I live if your lawn looked like that the city would cut if for you

Then bill you on your property taxes

[demwing]

138. Well, with all due respect, it's good for both of us that we're not neighbors

I'd always be guilty of "Non-Conforming" behavior

[leftyladyfrommo]

231. Me, too. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

220. +1

The worst that would happen was maybe a fine for "blighted" property or whatever, and if it got bad enough, the local authorities would send someone to cut it

[Control-Z]

148. Gorgeous!

I just love the wild flowers.

[ZombieHorde]

172. I like that look.

But I grew up in western Montana, so wild places are pleasing to my eye. I like fields and woods and rivers and mountains.

[Bettie]

188. Well, I think it is beautiful

But I like wild flowers and hate it when every yard looks exactly the same, with every house being precisely the same with the exception of being allowed three different floor plans and twelve slightly different shades of beige.

My husband does the lawn maintenance here and he lets the grass go to seed a few times a year, which means it is longer than most of the lawn enthusiasts would prefer. Lucky for us, we're in an area where people don't flip out over that.

If the length of someone's lawn is your biggest problem, you're doing pretty well in life.

[blackcrowflies]

205. demwing, that is a beautiful yard

I would be thrilled to have that in my neighborhood, or have my yard look like that.

That's what the environment is all about, not polluting the earth with herbicides and creating a sterile monoculture lawn.

[MattSh]

100. So that's what the world has come too?

Property values is the only thing that matters?

Throw all your other values out the window. Only property values matter!

[Live and Learn]

113. Yep. And why aren't they suggesting offering to help her?

I think there are many that actually like throwing people in jail and ruining lives for not conforming to their ideals.

[KansDem]

163. I think you just described Republicans

I think there are many that actually like throwing people in jail and ruining lives for not conforming to their ideals.

[theHandpuppet]

165. Let's see... what did I actually say...

"I don't believe anyone should go to jail for being an irresponsible neighbor but I do believe the city should work with folks like these and make some kind of agreement for basic upkeep."

Yes, I am one horrible person who has thrown all my values straight out the window.

[Ken Burch]

142. Your post illustrates what property does to people.

You're a good person, but the fixation with property values has brought out something petty and meanspirited in you, something unworthy of your better nature. It has filled you with resentment towards people you may not even know.

Not your fault, just an example of how property twists people.

It's why we need a system that puts human beings ahead of property and profit.

[theHandpuppet]

151. Really?

I could say something truly meanspirited here but you've already done that. Kudos.

[Ken Burch]

155. I wasn't attacking you.

I was just pointing out what the property system does to people.

There's something basically wrong with a set-up that makes people end up resenting and seething about what other people do to their lawns. Something deeply not healthy.

We need to have a way to secure people's futures and retirement finances without causing such feelings.

That's all I meant.

[scarystuffyo]

159. That's what zoning and code enforcements are for, because for many a home is their retirement future

"We need to have a way to secure people's futures and retirement finances without causing such feelings"

[theHandpuppet]

161. Yes, you were.

The only thing I even said regarding this particular case was, "I don't believe anyone should go to jail for being an irresponsible neighbor but I do believe the city should work with folks like these and make some kind of agreement for basic upkeep."

The rest of my post regarded a very particular situation in MY neighborhood. I live in a working class neighborhood where slumlords and absentee landlords have swooped in, chopped up the old homes into as many apartments as possible, then do absolutely NO maintenance. I mean NONE. Meanwhile, we're just hoping that when we're ready to retire we can at least recover what we've invested in our home. We have to live, too.

The facts of this case (the one of the OP) are that the woman who owns the home doesn't even live there. She and her husband bought the property in 2000 with the intention of flipping it but never did, and ever since the property has been going to seed. For 13 years the city has been sending her citations to do some maintenance on the property, citations she has ignored. She admitted she hasn't kept up the property and probably should have asked for help. Well, that might have been a good idea. She didn't have to live with the mess but the people in that neighborhood did, for 13 years.

Do I believe she should have gone to jail? Hell no. But I understand the frustration of dealing with absentee landlords and irresponsible neighbors. Further, only I know what's happened here in my own neighborhood -- you don't.

[markpkessinger]

175. Where in the Constitution . . .

. . . are we guaranteed freedom from declining property values? I guess I must have missed that part . . .

[theHandpuppet]

176. We aren't

So if your home is your main investment and you find that absentee landlords/slumlords/bad neighbors have trashed homes and in some cases, entire neighborhoods, I guess you're just shit outta luck.

[BubbaFett]

179. Have you actually checked

to see what cash value you have actually lost due to your neighbor?

If so, what is the percentage?

[joeglow3]

42. It does cause harm

[joeglow3]

216. No. Garnish wages or put lien on the property.

[scarystuffyo]

141. Your argument is against zoning and codes

'If its my property, and doesn't cause harm'



Having junk cars all over my front yard won't hurt you either.
Would you be okay that if you lived right next to me?

Your home my home less than 25 feet away

[demwing]

145. that really depend on what "Having junk cars all over my front yard" means

If you mean 1 or 2 cars in mid-repair? No problem!

If you mean this:



Well that...that's how you get ants!

[scarystuffyo]

147. lol but that's what I'm saying

The home owner knew the codes and zoning regulations before buying the property



I know people keep saying she was arrested for not mowing her lawn but
she was arrested because of a court order due to zoning and code violations .

This is no different than the guy who decides to build his own home in that city and break
every building code in the book.

If he couldn't get a CO and said "fuck you city" I'm going to live in my home anyways
what do you think would happen.

If people don't want to deal with zoning laws and codes they should buy where there aren't any.

Where my brother lives in NC you can hand build a cabin on you own land , have only an out house

When we as a people agreed to live in close proximity to one another. We as a people and state established rules and zoning laws .

[demwing]

152. Not all laws and codes are created equal

and I'm not going to get sucked into defending front lawns that look like a pick-your-parts.

What I'm saying is simple - a junkyard is not natural. A wild yard is.

you're punishing someone, even to jail time, for letting their yard look the way nature intended,

That's wrong and dumb.

[scarystuffyo]

156. Then the people of the city can vote out that code

but for the mean time that city and it's residents seem to agree with that code because I haven't read of another person
having this problem to this extent in that city.

[demwing]

166. Two things:

1. Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

2. I don't want to inflate this issue beyond its importance. It's a local code, designed for the common good, with an unreasonable penalty, that's all.

That being said, the argument that "the people of the city (county, state, nation, etc) can vote out that code" is an argument that has often been used by a majority group that wants to "legally" inflict some hardship on a minority group. It's a crap argument.

That's all I got

[scarystuffyo]

169. .

[stevenleser]

189. Yep, there is another word for that. Democracy.

If the majority votes that this is the way property needs to be maintained, that's Democracy at work.

Ultimately what this comes down to is that the property owner was lazy. This wasnt about their freedom to have property the way they wanted, they just were lazy.

[scarystuffyo]

194. To me and I'm sure someone will disagree but this woman is trying to portray her self more of a

victim than she actually is.

She's acting like this is something that happened over night.
She had damn near 13 years to take care of this.
She doesn't live in the home or has ever lived in the home , it was an investment purchase

She said she still has children living with her so these aren't little kids .
I said in another post spend $120 buy a small push mower from Lowes and send
one of your teenage kids over there to mow the lawn.

Her husband that is a full time student can find some time also to mow the lawn.
The excuses she gives for not getting it done is ridiculous..............

If she's going to leave the home neglected and vacant for 13 years as she her self has said then maybe she's not cut out for being a real estate investor or a good land lord, she sounds like she would be a slum lord when her tenants would complain about things being broken .

I wouldn't want my home next to it either if a buyer buys a house for an investment and leaves it vacant and neglected for 13 years

[tammywammy]

199. Thank you.

That's what I think too. Yeah if you ignore notice after notice for years on end shit like this happens. And she has bullshit excuses. Lawn maintenance is part of homeownership costs.

[blackcrowflies]

206. scarystuffyo

I would a lot rather have a yard with junk cars next to me than a neighbor going ballistic over the length of my lawn.

[scarystuffyo]

208. When I was a little kid I wanted a pony to keep in our small back yard growing up in the city

I did extra chores just to show my parents how responsible I was at 8 years old but I didn't get the pony.




Some thing that seemed just so crazy that I couldn't understand when I was 8 years old was told to me.

My parents tried to explain zoning laws and regulations that cities impose on the residents that live
within city limits.

But I said ! Jimmy has one where he lives!!

My parents said , yes he does but your friend Jimmy lives on a farm in the country not inside the city limits.


My parents never made any sense

[snooper2]

184. She is a hoarder, trash and junk everywhere-

Here is a video, you can see it is cleaned up now but check out the hoard pile at the end LOL-


Take your trash inside lady

[markpkessinger]

230. If that's truly the case, she needs psychological help, not jail n/t

[Capt. Obvious]

200. Are you my neighbor?

[demwing]

201. Not unless you live in St Peteresburg, FL

why?

[Capt. Obvious]

202. Because my neighbor doesn't take care of his property.

[demwing]

203. Ah, I missed the snark

savor the flavor, won't happen again

[marble falls]

227. Reasonable questions, the only thing unresonable is jailing for it. Here in drought stricken..

Texas longer grass is better for the grass and uses less water. Mowing too short stresses the grass and encourages evaporation from the soil.

[yeoman6987]

5. I actually don't feel sorry for her

She chose where to live and accepted the responsibility that comes with it. Get out and mow your lawn like the rest of us. We all have responsibilities like jobs and children and manage. Her poor neighbors. She sounds like she is doing it on purpose.

[demwing]

21. "We all have responsibilities like jobs and children"

So if you don't keep your job, should you also go to jail?

What about children? Should I have them or not? What's the community standard, and what's the jail time for non-compliance?

[joeglow3]

46. I guara-fucking-tee they have 45 minutes a week to do this

It is not a high priority, so they decide they will fuck over their neighbors. A coworker of mine listed their house this year and had one of these people move in next door six months before they listed. Their realtor estimated it cost them 7-10 thousand dollars in their sale price (over 5% their value).

[blackcrowflies]

207. 45 minutes a week

And you're an older person, so you know how much energy it takes to do that while you worry about your heart, and you live in an area where it costs $50 a week to hire someone to do that. That's $200 a month you don't have, but hey, must keep things up to the standards of the neighbors.

[joeglow3]

215. That is part of home ownership

If you cannot afford it or are incapable of it, you should find an alternative that you can afford.

[yeoman6987]

76. Totally irrelevant to the selfish homeowner

The homeowner either has a serious time manAgement problem or is seriously arrogant and thumbing their nose to their neighbors. Mow your lawn!!!!!!!!

[demwing]

91. NOW it's irrelevant...but you opened the door

If you don't want to have irrelevant conversations, don't make irrelevant analogies.

[yeoman6987]

93. You brought up losing a job or not having kids

Not anything with the story. I thought you were replying from another story in DU.

[ReRe]

177. Ahem...

... what's this "she" business? In the world that I live in (mid-America,) the man of the house is responsible for doing the lawn work. If the woman works and also has kids to raise and a house to keep, she is not to blame for her yard going to hell.

[yeoman6987]

180. Wow! You are 100 percent correct!

[snooper2]

186. that is sexist

[ReRe]

187. I am being sexist?

If so, how so?

[tazkcmo]

209. Ahem..."Man's Work"?

What's "women's work"? Cooking?

"If the woman works and also has kids to raise and a house to keep, she is not to blame for her yard going to hell."

I partly agree with this statement except the 2nd part. They are both responsible as they both own it. Home ownership is more than paying the mortgage as we all know or should know before purchasing property.

I'm also from mid-America but fortunately not in an area where this is still "women's work" and "men's work".

[ReRe]

210. Come on...

... how would you divide the labor in that household? If I was in her position and I had a husband that would not or could not handle the upkeep of the yard for some reason, I would pay a kid in the neighborhood to do it every week or 10 days (depending on the rain in the area.)

[tazkcmo]

212. Oh, I agree with that!

I'd also read that man the riot act. What I won't do is characterize yard work as "man's work".

[ReRe]

214. I know allot of women...

... who like to do yard work. But they don't have a job and little kids and a house to run. They do it for exercise.

[tazkcmo]

217. Like I said

I agree the man is dropping the ball here but that is not the same as he should be doing the "man's work" which were your words. THAT is my point of contention.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. Do you think it's important enough to use tasers and guns to enforce this?

[alphafemale]

12. At least mow the front and anything else that can be seen from the street.

That would take 15 minutes tops in most neighborhoods.

And as usual with these types of headlines it was from a refusal to pay the fines rather than the not mowing the lawn itself.

[kcr]

28. Still not okay. Debtors prisons, especially from lawn fines are outrageous.

No civilized society should put up with this.

[Duckhunter935]

31. this has been going on for over 10 years

and she ignored many court orders.

[NutmegYankee]

34. Still. Jail for infractions is nutty.

Just mow the lawn and bill her on the taxes. If she doesn't pay the taxes, the city can take the house and solve the problem once and for all.

[Duckhunter935]

36. That is true

That is how our city handles it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. In my city they have contractors do the work if you refuse

and they add the cost to your tax bill as an assessment. I've never heard of anybody going to jail for a messy lawn. If you don't pay your property taxes you have another problem, but that problem doesn't happen very fast.

[deurbano]

154. Makes much more sense.

[COLGATE4]

69. She's not in jail because of the infractions. She's in jail

because she disobeyed a Court order which = contempt of court. As the saying goes, 'she has the keys to her cell in her hand'. All she has to do is agree to comply with the Court order and she's out.

[alphafemale]

162. But poutrage is so much more fun.

"Help! I'm being oppressed!"

Get down from the cross.

We need the wood.

[stevenleser]

190. I don't like how contempt of court seems to be landing so many folks in jail. On the other hand...

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 02:04 PM - Edit history (2)

I have seen one alternative and someone mentioned it above, and that is the city comes in, mows the lawn and does whatever other cleanup to bring it up to code, and then bills the property owner on their property taxes and if THAT doesnt get paid, the house gets repossessed/foreclosed.

I am not sure which people would be more upset about.

Getting back to 'contempt of court', it seems more and more these days that "contempt of court" is being used to enable a defacto debtors prison on a number of issues.

[kcr]

50. And?

That's still not excuse for jail. Jail is not the remedy for every little problem.

[Duckhunter935]

54. No jail, city corrects the issue and she pays the bill nt

[kcr]

56. She went to jail per the OP n/t

[Duckhunter935]

70. I know nt

[joeglow3]

47. Agreed. Just seize the house and sell it to pay the fines

No need for jail. They obviously cannot afford the cost of owning the home they selected. It happens.

[kcr]

52. Or garnish wages n/t

[yeoman6987]

79. Oh I think the outrage over losing the home

Would be worse on here. I can see it now. They lost their home for not mowing their lawn and refused to pay the additional fines on their priority taxes. Lol. The outrage would be legendary.

[demigoddess]

98. add the fine to the property taxes

and they will have to pay it. In Neb, where we lived once, if you allowed your property to get in such bad shape that it was a fire or health hazard the county would clean it up, and add the cost to your taxes. You either paid for it or lost your property.

what I hate in our neighborhood is the people who throw their garbage around and attract rats. It is an actual thing! believe it or not!

[kcr]

26. Okay. But jail?

There's no need for such a disproportionate punishment.

[Man from Pickens]

38. Throwing people in jail for BS reasons make the neighborhood look worse

Seriously, there are other potential solutions to things than putting someone in a cage.

It would have been less effort for the cop to find a mower and do the job himself, than all the work of arresting someone, maintaining them in jail, going to court, filing all the paperwork, etc.

If all those other people who are so concerned about their property values had a lick of sense they'd arrange to get that lawn mowed on their own. If the condition of the lawn has such an impact on the community that it's worth throwing someone into jail over, then surely a civilized community could get together to get the job done in a less hostile and unreasonable way.

[joeglow3]

55. Why should I have to pay for you to mow your lawn when it is the law?

[kcr]

59. Jail isn't free either

We'll have to pay to jail the people authoritarians insist on jailing. It's a hell of a lot more expensive than lawn care.

[joeglow3]

60. I agree. Garnish her wages or seize the house and sell it.

[thucythucy]

127. Why not execute her

and harvest her organs?

[deurbano]

157. Oh god, that was good.

[Man from Pickens]

80. If your sum total interest is your self-interest...

... then you should do so because it's cheaper than throwing someone in jail - you could probably mow a hundred lawns for the cost of putting one person in jail.

Of course, what I was really getting at is that you should live in such a way that the well-being of people around you matters enough that you engage with them and help them to find ways to solve problems together, without needing to use violence.

[Live and Learn]

114. +1 nt

[blackcrowflies]

204. several of those mow the lawn cases have gone to court. the neatniks have lost all of them.

I'm happy to say.

[avebury]

2. Where I live, the City would post a Code Enforcement

Notice and if you failed to mow your law within the allotted timeframe, send someone out to do and and send you a really expensive bill for it.

[Arkansas Granny]

8. Same where I live. After the first violation, they inspect regularly and don't have to post

additional notices. They just schedule the cleanup and charge you an exorbitant fee.

[newfie11]

3. so glad I live very rural

I'm sure we would have been banned for many things least of all the grass getting to long.
I've never lived in a subdivision so maybe their not all bad and yes in a rural area your neighbor might have a car up on blocks with weeds growing.
The difference is that neighbor is 5 or more miles down the road and you know him well. He's pulled you out of the ditch after sliding off in snow etc.

I could go on but suffice to say people need to chill! Don't sweat the small stuff.

Do sweat our police state!

[NOLALady]

82. I live in a semi rural area.

We've been here nearly 30 years and we also know the neighbors well. We've pulled each other out of many ditches, etc.

I could care less about how their lawn looks.

Every so often someone from "the city" buys back here. In no time, they call authorities to complain about "something". They usually don't last long back here. I think they get tired of calling and complaining.

[newfie11]

119. +1

[giftedgirl77]

6. Ummm long grass & unmaintained lawns

invite snakes, rats & other nasty creatures. They are a 2 parent family with kids. Get off your ass maintain your yard or get an apartment where you don't have those responsibilities.

[thucythucy]

7. And intensive lawn work promotes

global warming, and the contamination of our air, soil, and water through the use of gasoline and fertilizer. Not to mention the noise pollution generated by riding mowers, weed whackers and leaf blowers.

I know people absolutely obsessed with their "lawn maintenance." And the sad thing is, the over-use of polluting gasoline powered machinery to cut blades of grass is rapidly becoming the new normal.

Centuries from now people will wonder at our obsession with growing and then cutting grass, in the face of a global climate crisis.

[A Little Weird]

13. +1

[giftedgirl77]

24. Holy shit running a lawn mower over the yard...

doesn't cause global warming. It promotes good health to get outside & do something productive.

[liberalhistorian]

37. So it should be a

CRIMINAL matter, instead of civil, and you should actually go to JAIL for it? Really? Wow. This place sure is changing. And not for the better.

[joeglow3]

57. No. City should mow it, charge a fee about 150% what a service does

To cover the administrative cost of collecting. If they don't pay, garnish wages and, as a last resort, put a Lein on the property/seize it.

[scarystuffyo]

58. Get a bunch of parking tickets and just keep refusing to pay....see what happens....same as this

[liberalhistorian]

61. What happens is that

you get a boot on the car so that you cannot drive it at all, and the boot only comes off when you pay the tickets. You don't get thrown in the slammer for it, nor should you be. But then again, private prisons gotta keep those profits rolling in, so who knows?

[scarystuffyo]

87. I don't know where you got that from but what can happen is as the fines grow

eventually a bench warrant will be issued and if at anytime you are pulled over they will
impound your vehicle and arrest you on the spot

[truebluegreen]

75. Holy shit, it sure does:

U.S. Lawn Care Facts as Annual Totals & Percentages
From Redesigning the American Lawn by F. Herbert Bormann, Diana Balmori, Gordon T. Geballe, Yale University Press, 1993

A lawnmower pollutes as much in one hour as does driving an automobile for 350 miles. (We have found that this information, though valid at the time of publication, is no longer accurate. Based on current calculations, EPA estimates that the amount of pollution emitted by a lawnmower operating for one hour is equivalent to the amount of pollution emitted by a car driven for approximately 45 miles.)
30 to 60 percent of urban fresh water is used for watering lawns (depending on city).
$5,250,000,000 is spent on fossil fuel-derived fertilizers for U.S. lawns.
67,000,000 pounds of synthetic pesticides are used on U.S. lawns.
60,000 to 70,000 severe accidents result from lawnmowers.
580,000,000 gallons of gasoline are used for lawnmowers.
$25,000,000,000 is spent for the lawn care industry.
$700,000,000 is spent for pesticides for U.S. lawns.
20,000,000 acres are planted in residential lawns.

Powered mowers contribute to noise pollution and hearing loss.


"An old error is always more popular than a new truth." -

German Proverb

Now, if you use a push mower, that would promote health.

[thucythucy]

129. Thank you for this

excellent post.

[Duckhunter935]

32. no you use a cheap

reel type mower, no gas and the grass clippings are fertilizer. Good exercise also.

[theHandpuppet]

41. Of course some of us manage to do the work by hand

That includes the use of a pushmower and pulling weeds by hand. We have also replaced ornamentals with fruit trees and in the backyard, an organic garden where wild millet for birds and milkweed for butterflies is also allowed to grow. We have a composter for fertilizer and rain barrels we use to water the garden. You can be a responsible, environmentally conscious homeowner without your place looking like it should have yellow tape stretched around it. It's not an either/or situation.

[yeoman6987]

78. If I can get another 10 grand on the sale of my

Home due to routine maintenance then it is 100 percent worth that little supposed damage to the Earth. That is hardly the biggest problem with global warming. Besides I pay to have mine done weekly which promotes the economy which tops all at this time.

[demwing]

143. Wow. I don't know you, but just judging by this post

I'm 100% OK with that...

[gollygee]

164. Promoting the economy tops all?

Really? All?

[yeoman6987]

170. A littl exaggerated

But without a healthy economy not much can get done.

[scarystuffyo]

23. It's bullshit , you can't tell me He or She can't find 1 hour a week to cut that grass

[giftedgirl77]

27. Especially, trying to say her husband is a full-time student

is an excuse. Have the whole family help, the excuse of a full-time job & a couple of kids is silly. Somehow people have been doing it for years, like I said if you can't maintain it move somewhere where you don't have to.

[theHandpuppet]

68. Yep. My wife commutes and works full time

I'm dealing every day with the pain and fatigue of battling MS and Parkinsons. We're both in our 60's yet somehow we manage to maintain our property (organic and environmentally-friendly) and try to be considerate of our neighbors in that regard. I've even helped out others in the neighborhood who, because of illness or disability, couldn't do the work on their own and asked for help. It can be done. It's called being responsible and considerate of your neighbors.

[sibelian]

191. That's not the point.

The OP invites discussion of the appropriateness of the penalty to the "offense".

[giftedgirl77]

192. Ok, so ignoring years of fines for not maintaining

the yard of the house you own should have repercussions? The consequences of not maintaining your lawn because it causes rodent issues is fines. The consequences of not paying fines is jail, 6 fucking hours mind you. They are lazy & looking for excuses l, don't own if you can't or won't maintain.

[sibelian]

193. Rodents, boo hoo.

The fines shouldn't exist either.

[randome]

9. Police arrest someone every 2 seconds equals "not uncommon stories like this"?

You're trying too hard.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[IDemo]

14. Xeriscape

I'm not seeing a link to the actual city code, but unless they and/or a covenant restricts it, rip the water guzzling lawn out.

[PumpkinAle]

109. +1

I would like Xeriscape be the only way to go.

[NutmegYankee]

130. Xeriscape isn't going to happen in the Northeast.

Grass is native to the region.

[PumpkinAle]

137. Just because grass is native

doesn't mean there are not alternatives.

http://eartheasy.com/grow_xeriscape.htm

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2708&q=492072&depNav_GID=1763

[NutmegYankee]

139. One does not need to water a lawn here.

I haven't in several years. I don't even fertilize it. My gardens on the other hand...

[LeftInTX]

120. I've got xeriscape

It's just as much work. I would live a hackberry, loquat, ligustrum infested jungle if I wasn't constantly pulling weeds.

The woman in the OP lives in S. Carolina where weeds would be even worse than droughty South Texas.

[steve2470]

121. can you put down a tarp or plastic sheeting to cover the ground under the rocks ?

Or does that cause problems ? Sincere question. I know here in Florida, the heat and humidity would probably degrade the tarp pretty fast, plus the heavy rains would cause puddling and runoffs.

[LeftInTX]

122. Been there done that.

I don't have a gravel landscape, I've got a native landscape with hardwood/leaf litter mulch. The landscaping fabric tears and breaks down. Any changes in the landscape result in shreds of stuff. Plastic is a real no no as it can cause quite a bit of overheating in the soil.

The only place that landscaping fabric works for me is on paths and areas where there is no desired vegetation. If my landscape was "static", maybe it would work, but things are always changing and growing etc. etc.

[Warpy]

168. Texas is humid as hell to those of us over in NM on the other side of the mountains.

There really aren't that many weeds to pull here, just spurge, tumbleweeds and in a damp year, mustard. If you go out after a shower, they're all easy to yank up.

[A Little Weird]

15. That's absurd

Failing to cut your grass or fix loose shingles should not be a jail-able offense.

[redgreenandblue]

16. As a German-American dual citizen, the obsession with lawns is something I only recently understood.

In Germany, where I lived most of my life, lawn maintenance is something that some people do and some don't.
People are generally relaxed about it. I think being obsessed about lawns is something the Americans inherited from
the British, who are famous in Europe for being totally anal about lawn maintenance.

[TransitJohn]

18. I'm surprised they didn't use a SWAT team

to get her, kill her dog, and detain others.

[Duckhunter935]

19. This has been going on for over a decade

"In this particular case this has been going on for 12 or 13 years. The Holloways have been cited in the court a number of times," he said.

In photos White provided 10News, you can see the property in 2013 and another in 2014 - virtually unchanged.

"It's just not fair to the other residents and we're trying to make the city better across the board. We want it to be clean, we want it to be attractive, we want other people to move here," said White.

City inspectors say overgrown properties also pose a safety hazard for kids who might sneak in and get hurt.

"If there's rotted floors and the house hasn't been maintained and there's leaking roofs and electrical problems and if the house is so overgrown someone breaks a window and no one knows," White explained.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/20/lenoir-city-woman-jailed-for-6-hours-over-dirty-yard/17600033/

and she ignored many notices. I have no sympathy for her.

[scarystuffyo]

20. Health hazard

When your actions affect other people close by then your rights stop


If she didn't want to be bothered with this buy a home out of the city with no zoning laws

She could have a pig farm in her front lawn

[NutmegYankee]

29. I have yet to see a person die from tall grass.

There is no danger to others. Some just think it looks ugly.

[scarystuffyo]

33. It will fester rats and mice

I've seen it happen in a home in Norwich CT

When other homes are in close proximity they are affected by it.

[NutmegYankee]

35. You live in Norwich?

[scarystuffyo]

39. No , my family owned a rental property there at one time

[NutmegYankee]

96. The city is surrounded by dense woods in all directions.

One tall yard won't make a dent. Ever notice the large feral cat population?

[scarystuffyo]

112. I never grew up there

We lived in Hartford county but the home was a 2 family he bought . All homes were real close together at the most
20 to 25 feet apart . When My father had an exterminator come what he found were all
the rats and mice were living on the other property not his.

When the exterminator also investigated with other home owners they were all having a problem but
the rats and mice were coming from the home that was un -kept by the person

[Historic NY]

22. In my town, they will cut it and bill you on your taxes...

too many untended homes here (foreclosures etc.)

[packman]

25. When I lived in Maryland

a guy in a subdivision got fed up with the Nazi-like tactics of his homeowner's association which bordered on harassment and killed all the grass in his front yard and had white, crushed rock laid down.

I lived in an overpriced , stamped out type of neighborhood of nice houses whose elected homeowner's association would assign days to each member to ride through the neighborhood with a notepad writing down various "violations" to the association code - rust stains from water sprinklers on house, shrubbery too high, cracks in driveway, wooden fences too weatherbeaten, mold on downspouts, weeds in the flowerbeds, etc., etc. Those members were retired busybodies with nothing else to do and were the bane of the neighborhood.

[NutmegYankee]

30. One of the reasons I live in an old house.

You can live in an old subdivision, getting the water, sewer, and gas, but have no homeowners association.

[Octafish]

40. Something is very wrong when people are subject to things.

For some people, property is more important than human life.

PS: It's really odd to see DUers feel that way.

[theHandpuppet]

43. Wrong.

Who here is saying that property is more valuable than human life? That's insulting and wrong. Even folks who believe folks should take some responsibility for the upkeep of their property don't believe anyone should go to jail because they don't cut their damn grass. Don't engage in hyperbole.

[Octafish]

62. Look at the thread. Some argue people deserve jail time for not keeping up a yard or paying a fine.

A person's life is more important than "justice" being served in the form of a jail time over things not being "right" in their yard.

So, when that's true, that's not hyperbole. Right, theHandpuppet?

[joeglow3]

65. No. They argue that wages should be seized when lazy people screw others over

[Octafish]

67. Good point. If so, I am mistaken. My apologies to anyone whose feelings I hurt.

Nevertheless, people don't deserve to lose their freedom, even if only for a few hours or days, for failure to comply with civil infractions. The fact others don't see that as being illogical, immoral and immane is puzzling to me.

[Live and Learn]

115. I don't think you needed to apologize.

I read the thread and you are correct. Besides, I don't think seizing their wages is appropriate either.

How about offering to help them out, instead?

And these judgement calls about her being lazy are ridiculous. Nobody knows what somebody else is going through.

[noiretextatique]

158. this is absolutely insane

i just think about the resources that are being wasted that could be allocated to serious crimes. it is insane.

[Triana]

45. I don't feel sorry for her. I also don't think tossing her in jail is appropriate.

People buy homes in particular neighborhoods with neighborhood standards and local laws and they need to be prepared to comply with those standards and laws or face complaints. NOT jail time, but complaints and pressure to comply. She should expect the pressure. Jail time is not appropriate and is overkill for this particular problem.

She or her husband or kids or a lawn service or neighborhood kids could easily mow her lawn. There is no excuse for her neglect of this task.

Even in my very relaxed and open-minded 'hood one can lodge a complaint about overgrown lawns or yards that harbor snakes and rodents (and they DO if they're overgrown and not maintained at least minimally). Of course they don't toss folks in jail over it but a notice is issued to the property owner and a period given to comply after which gradually increasing fines will be levied if they don't.

Bottom line: it should be expected that you at least minimally maintain your yard if you're a homeowner. No excuses. If you can't do it, find someone who can do it for you for a nominal fee.

Most people who own homes work and have families. That's no excuse. For anyone.

[scarystuffyo]

49. I'm pretty sure the arrest was due to a bench warrant issued because of

failure to pay the citation

That would be the same as if refusing to pay a speeding ticket where the fine would keep increasing.

[Takket]

51. She should work out a deal with Cliven Bundy's cows for grazing

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

66. My next door neighbors keep calling the city on me

because I don't have a lawn at all and with the help of a professional landscape designer I planted native plants, shrubs and flowers instead. The neighbors hate this and have said so - they like vast expanses of perfectly-maintained green grass, which wastes water and causes people do use ridiculous amounts of fertilizer and herbicides (we have no "vast expanses" at all; these are small city lots). However, I remove weeds, put down mulch, etc., so it doesn't look untended. Nevertheless, the neighbors are always trying to find a way to make things difficult for me. Last year they cut down a bunch of shrubs and branches on the property line that belonged to me and threw them in my back yard (about 200 lbs. of brush I ended up removing myself because they just yelled at me when I complained). This sort of thing had happened several times before and I finally had to put up a tall fence.

Then I got a notice from the city about "poison ivy" in my yard. There wasn't any; what they saw (and would have had to go into my yard to do it) was a three-leaved vine called hog peanut which is a useful nitrogen-fixing legume that doesn't really look like poison ivy at all. So I had to sort that out with the inspector. Two weeks later I got another notice about "weeds" on the boulevard. There were no weeds; there was a native plant called Solidago which the neighbors decided must have been a weed because they didn't know what it was. I had to explain that, too (the city inspectors aren't that good at botany, either).

I think the city has finally figured out that my neighbors are just harassing me and I'm not doing anything wrong. Nobody else in the neighborhood seems to mind my landscaping (the no-lawn look is actually catching on). Maybe the people mentioned in the OP should do something like this. Once it takes hold it's very low maintenance.

[MindPilot]

71. I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread!!

Supposed liberals calling for property seizure, wage garnishment, prison time -- for inadequate lawn care.

Wow.

[NutmegYankee]

73. Property seizure for not paying taxes.

Which is standard for Fee Simple land ownership.

[joeglow3]

74. Why should I lose thousands in property value

Because someone is too lazy?

[AZ Progressive]

84. You fine people, not put them in jail

And even that is harsh IMO.

[joeglow3]

99. They did fine them. Over ten years someone said here.

[lumberjack_jeff]

174. If your net worth is contingent on the height of my lawn, diversify. n/t

[joeglow3]

195. Really? That is your response to people losing thousands

In value because of one lazy persons illegal decision?

[lumberjack_jeff]

223. yes. nt

[joeglow3]

224. And we thought selfishness was a monopoly of the right

[lumberjack_jeff]

225. It is one thing to be so selfish that I don't want to mow my lawn weekly.

It is an order of magnitude more selfish to demand, punishable by jail, that your neighbor will.

I'm comfortable with the liberal high ground here.

[joeglow3]

226. City mow it, charge them and garnish wages

No jail time.

[yeoman6987]

86. I sincerely hope you never live next to such a

selfish homeowner. It is one of the biggest stressors and tragedy you can have. It can cause heart attacks for the other neighbors having to deal with the situation. I feel so sorry for the neighbors. 12-13 years they have been on the losing end of this. I just hope you never have this reality like these neighbors do.

[demwing]

101. If I did, I'd just mow their damned lawn instead of calling the police

I sincerely hope that none of us ever lives next to a neighbor that puts esthetics in front of ethics.

[thucythucy]

128. Well said!

[tabbycat31]

198. Someone else's lawn can cause heart attacks?

This post seems like it's coming from the retiree busybody HOA president. And here I thought my parents were bad with their HGTV obsession and constantly finding something wrong and dropping way too much $$ to fix things up (they could have bought a few Rolls with the $$ they spent on home improvements).

Not maintaining a lawn is a tragedy? Really? I dare you to tell that to the parents of Newtown, CT.

I guess I just don't give a shit about what other people do as long as nobody is being physically harmed. Maybe it's a product of my generation (who is not buying homes like their elders did at their age) but I just don't care if your house is neon purple or an approved shade of beige (which I personally find ugly). I don't care if your lawn looks like a golf course or if you don't have one at all. Live and let live.

I guess I'll never understand the homeownership culture (I for one would not even buy a house if I won the lottery).

[AZ Progressive]

89. They are not liberals, they are strict statists

[yeoman6987]

160. Yes allowing your lawn to destroy the entire

Neighborhood and expecting accountability is statist. Roll eyes. The woman is selfish period. So happy super majority agree with me.

[Live and Learn]

116. +1 nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

173. Agreed. I'm sure many consider themselves free thinkers. n/t

[WinkyDink]

72. Places have laws: Zoning; maintenance of lawns, sidewalks, and domicile; "pooper-scooper"; etc. NO

SYMPATHY for this adult.

Maybe she needs a condo situation.

[tblue37]

77. The watermelon story is not as bad as the others, because it does sound as though the man

intended his actions to serve as a threat to his wife following an argument. If he is an abuser, which is of course quite possible, then her reaction could simply be a rational response to signs of a sort that she has seen all too often, signs that he intends to show her who's the boss in their home.

Women who are abused by their partners are intensely aware of signs that things are about to escalate to physical assault. Most don't feel as though they can take action to prevent the abuse, but if this is one who managed to break through the conditioning that blocks abused women from reporting their abuse to the cops, then I'm all in favor of her reaction. I have no evidence either way, of course--but I think the very real possibility that this is what was going on means that you shouldn't use this case as an example of the authorities' outrageous overreaction to innocent behavior.

[hollysmom]

81. maintaining your property yes, jail time no.

The trailer park used to hire someone to take care of the un-weeded properties and we would be fined$30 a weeding, so most people weeded. If you accumulated a big enough fine and you could be evicted. In my town, when We moved to our house, my mother in law was dying, I had just changed jobs and had a work load and my husband was working and going to school. after months of negledt, our neighbors got together to mow our lawn until we could get our lives under control. It was not done resentfully,but kindly and sort of notice this is what they expected. Now that I maintain it myself and I have aged a bit, it is not the most beautiful lawn, but it is just about passable, heh. next year I have to reseed patches because of crab grass patches, but other than that, it is OK.

I have been to states that have no zoning, and I live in one with zoning, I prefer zoning. Someone paved their lawn so they did not have to take care of a lawn and had space to park cars, they had to rip it up. This is a neighborhood, not a parking lot. Some people don't have lawns, they have ivy or flower gardens or shrubs. But you can't have pavement here.First of all, for the space of expansion, the town owns the first 14 feet of my property, they did not seize it, they have claimed it for when this areas was first developed over 150 years ago. It is for road expansion and/or sidewalks (we only have sidewalks on one side of the street right now). The town maintains 2 trees per lot in this 14 space, I can have a lawn or what ever else around it, but can't cut down those trees.

[Sunlei]

83. Nearly one out of every three American adults are on file in the FBI’s master criminal database.

[alarimer]

85. Ridiculous

I suppose if I were them, I would have found some no maintenance option. Like rocks or something. I despise our obsession with lawns. It's unnatural and damaging to the environment, from fertilizer runoff which kills streams to water use itself, which is incredibly wasteful.

[NutmegYankee]

88. In the Eastern portions of the country, grass is natural.

I don't fertilize or water my lawn, yet it remains year after year.

[napi21]

90. Wouldn't it be better to issue a penalty of "Mowing the lawn NOW" instead of jail time?

If the police have the authority to arrest someone for "Now mowing the lawn" then shouldn't they have the authority to "Force someone to "Mow the lawn now"? At lease it would accomplish the goal of a neat lawn without jail time that accomplishes nothing!

[Nye Bevan]

92. This should be purely a civil matter.

Ridiculous that the police are involved, and amazing that she spent time in jail.

[hunter]

94. I couldn't live in a place like that.

The police and courts in our city are too understaffed to give a rat's ass about stuff like lawns. They generally only show up in situations of blood, people on fire, and other general mayhem.

If you don't like your neighbor's overgrown lawn, your only option is to knock on their door and offer to mow it yourself. Our house doesn't have a front lawn. My wife and I got rid of it shortly after we moved in.

We had a neighbor who had a stroke and subsequently lost his job and his house. But while he and his family were there nobody begrudged him his overgrown lawn and often neighbors would simply mow it when they mowed theirs.

When our neighborhood was in bad shape after the housing bubble burst the banks created the worst neighborhood eyesores leaving the houses they'd foreclosed on empty and unmaintained.

[Sunlei]

95. local gov is the most oppressive of all. The family did not even live in the old house. here's a pic

Just like what happened with the people in the Ferguson community, the local gov. starts ticketing the hell out of people, fines add up and peoples lives are ruined if they can't pay. They end up in prison sometimes, and have massive debt from fines. Especially hard on people who live on the fence of poverty. All it takes is a crabbie neighbor to start calling code inspectors. People lose their homes over this all the time.

A tiny yard!

[demwing]

97. HEY. Put a waning label on that!

My kids might see that shit and get scarred for life...

[sunnystarr]

103. Lawn or House?

They bought the house in 2000. It was a fixer upper but they never got the money to do the work so they never moved into it. The family lives in an apartment. At first I thought this picture was taken after the neighbors mowed it but in the video the city official shows the guy comparing a similar picture with another from the previous year - showing the same condition. The grass wasn't overgrown in both. But the leaves weren't picked up and the shrubbery was overgrown.

[link:|

[sunnystarr]

107. picture

[link:|

[randome]

104. Another way to look at this.

We pretty much all agreed with penalizing or even jailing what's-her-name for desecrating national parks. Why not hold this homeowner to the same consequences for desecrating her neighborhood?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[TheKentuckian]

219. Her property is not the national park and neither is a neighborhood. What is the comparison?

The National parks are commons that belong to all of us and that we hold in trust for future generations not your flop and/or investment.

How do you compare doing damages to parks to long grass anyway? What desecration? Inflicting direct damage and allowing something to exist naturally is in no way comparable and your tastes in landscaping is not a national treasure.

[LWolf]

105. Typical

of American culture, appearances mean more than substance.

[diabeticman]

106. One word. For-profit Prison system....She has a record...repeat minor offensives are being used to

get people into the prison system.

[Live and Learn]

117. +1 nt

[steve2470]

110. I used to mow lawns as a kid, in 90+ heat and stifling humidity....

You can't mow the yard in the dark and in Florida, the morning grass typically has dew on it, which is bad for mowing and slipping on. Mowing the grass in the late afternoon/early evening many times was not practical because it had rained heavily or was still raining.

My point is, I hate mowing yards. Therefore, I have a condo. Yes, I could pay someone to mow my yard but I don't want a yard that badly.

I think it's absurd she went to jail. Mow her damn yard against her will, and eventually sell the house if she refuses to/won't mow it. If you don't want to mow your yard, move to a rural area where it doesn't matter.

[marym625]

111. K&R! Let's not forget the assaulting an officer

For holding a pumpkin

What is worse about this type of incarceration, and what is happening more and more, is it is a "debtors prison."

People are fined because of things they are unable to afford to fix or do. Then they can't pay the fine, they go to jail. Where they work for slave wages then are charged when they leave for other court and legal fees. They can't pay those, they can't fix the original issue, and around we go.

Great post!

[MissB]

118. I live in an urban area. House values are ridiculous.

My half acre property is worth much more than the house that sits on it. Nearly overnight, I could sell this place for upwards of a cool million. The next owner is very likely to rip the structure down and build a new, bigger home on the same footprint. And to be clear - the house is in no way falling down. It's a 1920s era 3-bedroom/2bath home with enormous common rooms, plus a good-sized sunroom and den. We've added an enormous wrap around covered porch with hand carved railings.

Everyone here has hedges, including us. We have a tiny spot of "grass" which has more dandelions than actual blades of grass. From the street, it does look green. I have tons of trees, including a towering stand of old growth fir trees. But most of my perennial beds are best described as "cottage" style which loosely translates to messy but pretty and certainly not manicured. I've hired two different landscape architects over the years and neither of them get my style so I never follow through with their plans. The landscaping/hardscaping pleases dh and I.

Since the house will end up being torn down, we don't particularly care what folks think about our yard. It's very forest-y in places and I wouldn't dream of throwing down mulch (natural leaf and fir needle mulch is just fine!)

Sterile yards are not everyone's style. I live outside the city limits and in an area without a homeowners association. Folks that hate my yard can walk right on by. My neighbors tend to walk through my yard.

[shanti]

123. no fine?

i went thru a rough time when i didn't mow my very tiny front lawn for a couple of weeks. the grass was about 6 inches high. anyway, i got a notice in the mail from the city code enforcement people. said i'd be subject to a $250 fine if the lawn wasn't mowed, and higher fines for repeat violations. so i mowed the lawn and haven't had a problem since. my city will also fine you if your trash containers can be seen from the street. before they became a city (fairly recently), there were never any of these kind of admonitions, so it's obviously a moneymaker for them.

now i just hire lawn care people. $30 a month, mow and blow every friday, everybody's happy.

[tammywammy]

131. According to another link posted on the thread

This has been going on for a decade and there were multiple attempts/fines before it got this far.

[theHandpuppet]

140. Yep. I've investigated this case a little further

The problem with this property has been ongoing now for about 13 years. The couple who own the property don't live there; they bought it in 2000 with the intention of flipping it but for one reason or another never got around to it. In the meanwhile they let it go to seed and ignored numerous citations over the past decade to keep the property up. The owner admits that perhaps she should have asked for some help. She landed in jail not because she had a messy lawn but because she's been ignoring citations for a decade.

I don't believe anyone should go to jail for a messy yard but there's a lot more to this story.

[woo me with science]

124. If you want to see how sick, perverse, and warped by punitive authoritarian propaganda

this nation has become, just look at the direction of this thread.

Here we are, on what is ostensibly a discussion board for left-leaning, thinking people in a deeply politically corrupted nation that already imprisons - increasingly for PROFIT - more people than any other nation in the world....

...and we are humoring arguments about whether it's a good idea to throw people in JAIL for not mowing their lawns.

Good god. Dog help us. I'm reminded of that jaw-dropping thread about a year ago when our resident repeaters of authoritarian talking points were trying to make an "argument" for jailing people who toss a cigarette butt in the gutter. Yes, that was a real "discussion," too.




How does authoritarianism happen? Bit by bit, step by step, through changing people's thinking and gradually shifting what they perceive as normal and acceptable in terms of government use of punishment, its scope and purview. We are continually acclimated to the idea of police state-style tactics of dealing with citizens, down to the most mundane matters. We are constantly invited to discuss, in utter seriousness and with great respect for the opposing arguments....expansions of our government's use of one of its most extreme powers:

[font size=2]the power, literally, to take our freedom, pull us out of our lives and families, and LOCK US IN A BOX.

[/font size]

Now it's for not mowing your lawn.

Think about that. Think about what that really means, and what kind of society you are asking for when you even humor these "arguments" justifying this garbage. We do not entertain "serious" and "rational" debates about the pros and cons of killing and eating small children. Yet every time we hear of an American being locked up for a new reason that would have left our grandparents open-mouthed, there are serene authoritarian voices inviting us to "discuss" it, to see both sides...to normalize it.

And this sick way of thinking now darkens, pervades, and pollutes conversations ranging from whether we really need our fundamental Constitutional rights and protections to how we should deal with the crabgrass down the road.

It is a *way of thinking,* and it is being bred and nurtured in us. And it is sick and perverse, no matter how much the oh-so-reasonable voices will assure you that it isn't. No, the observation that unmaintained lawns make neighborhoods look bad does not (in any sane society) lead rationally to the conclusion that failing to mow a lawn therefore justifies locking up human beings.

The truth is that lots of other more enlightened countries don't do this. Their citizens don't automatically think this way. They don't view every civil nuisance and disagreement, every problem that arises in a civil context, as an opening to call in the government to criminalize it, to punish, to lock someone up. They handle these things in other ways.

We are taught not even to conceive of other possible ways. Ways like engaging community to sove the problem, or even reconsidering how we are interpreting the "problem."

It doesn't have to be this way. Slow introduction of authoritarian thinking...that what we dislike ought therefore to be punished...is how a police state is slowly normalized.

I am really starting to think at this point that we need a live streaming feed of how people in, say, Norway or Sweden talk about problems like this. We need something to give this nation some perspective, to help us step out of this sick propaganda matrix, the FOX News, MSM, punitive daily messaging we marinate in...to see how perverse this thinking really is.

This shouldn't even be a discussion, folks. Reject the authoritarian voices. Watch the patterns, and reject the propaganda.

[MindPilot]

133. Thank you, Woo! This should be its own OP!

I'm seriously shocked sometimes at the authoritarianism exhibited here. This growing punitiveness among liberals is really making me re-think my political affiliations.

And after watching the left let Ben Affleck pretty much single-handedly get them to agree en mass that even the most egregious human rights violations are a-ok, as long as Muslims are doing it, I'm not real sure I'm conservative enough to be liberal any more.

[woo me with science]

136. Just did it.

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025748407

Thanks *very* much. This insidious authoritarian framing of everything is an assault on all of us and this nation that we need to call out and slap down, hard.

[leftyladyfrommo]

196. I agree with you.

I've been noticing that for a while now and worrying about it. I just couldn't quite put into words like you did.

We are being trained little by little to be more and more sheep like. It bothers me a lot.

[thucythucy]

125. I love some of these comments.

The executives at BP, responsible for one of the most egregious environmental disasters in history, remain free to walk the planet, virtually unscathed by American "justice"--but a harried homeowner and mother gets tossed in jail for not cutting her lawn and people cheer.

Is this planet screwed, or what?

[Duckhunter935]

132. who is cheering

seems like most here just want her to pay the fines that have been assessed over the last 10 years and maintain her property. I guess they could just add it to her tax bill.

[MindPilot]

135. Because property values!!

And of course that is absolutely worth someone else going to jail.

Some of these posts sound just like "I'm against ACA (or single-payer) because I'm not paying for other people's bad choices."

[theHandpuppet]

144. I referred to property values in my post.

And yes, when you've invested your life savings in a home it's depressing when absentee landlords and slumlords who don't even live in the neighborhood feel no responsibility for any upkeep.

I also said, "I don't believe anyone should go to jail for being an irresponsible neighbor but I do believe the city should work with folks like these and make some kind of agreement for basic upkeep."

The couple who own this home don't even live there; they bought it in 2000 with the intention of flipping it but never got around to it. They also didn't get around to doing any basic maintenance on the property, which is why for the past 13 years the city has been sending her citations, which she has ignored. She also admitted that maybe she should have asked for some help. Ya think?

I don't believe anyone should EVER go to jail over a yard but there's a lot more to this story than a headline.

[ZombieHorde]

146. Grass and other plants are evil and must be kept in check.

To not burn fossil fuels in the continuing campaign against Mother Nature is very definition of barbarism, and barbarians should feel lucky that all we do is lock them in a cage where they are subjected to dehumanization and sexual assault.

[thucythucy]

171. Indeed, unless we subjugate our lawns

the terrorists will have already won!

[Louisiana1976]

149. I think jailing people for not mowing their lawns is too Draconian. The authorities should instead

give the homeowner a deadline by which the lawn should be mowed and if the homeowner doesn't get the lawn mowed by the deadline, he or she should be fined.

[theHandpuppet]

150. She's been getting deadlines for 13 years now

And ignoring the citations.

I do not believe she should have gone to jail but what do you do with an absentee landlord like this one? She doesn't have to live with the mess but the people in that neighborhood do.

[Vinca]

178. OMG - as I look at all my unraked leaves I suddenly realize I could be a lifer in SC.

Let's hear it again for the GOP and their commitment to deregulation.

[Javaman]

182. Good thing she didn't steal a loaf of bread, huh? nt

[MineralMan]

183. I had a neighbor who didn't keep her lawn mowed.

She volunteered an apology and said that her lawnmower had broken and she couldn't afford to fix it. I asked if it would be OK if I mowed the lawn for her when I was doing mine. She said that would be very nice, so that's what I did. She gave me a plate of cookies every once in a while.

There's always an solution for a problem.

[B Calm]

211. I hear of stories where home owners are fined for leaving their garage door open. I'm

so glad I live out in the country!

[Go Vols]

218. Karen Holloway Vid about her yard

[Blue_Tires]

222. Wow...THAT'S IT?

From the discussion, I thought her shit was four feet high or something...

[True Blue Door]

221. Police states grow like kudzu wherever people fail to jealously guard their liberty.

You have to be an impolite prick in defense of freedom, otherwise social harmony creates a nice little trestle for the vines to climb.

I hope everyone this happens to uses every legitimate avenue of revenge and troublemaking to make this kind of thing expensive for the state and the individual officials responsible.

And if they do so, I would hope they take up the causes of others as well, and don't just make themselves untouchable, since the state is quite happy to be "hands off" with specific people they know will raise hell while still treating everyone else like serfs.

[Nine]

228. Why didn't she just sell the property if she couldn't manage the upkeep? She didn't live there.

I'll tell you why. She didn't want to take a loss on her investment. Better that the people who actually live in that neighborhood should have their property values lowered. And people here are actually defending her. Sigh.

[theHandpuppet]

234. Why bother with facts when a mere headline can generate such outrage?

This is a perfect example of how the media can so easily manipulate people, even at DU. A headline and a short paragraph and folks are ready and willing to pull the trigger without even questioning whether there might just be more to the story. Like the facts that the woman doesn't even live at that property (which she and her husband bought in 2000 but never renovated), has been neglecting it for 13 years and has received numerous citations over the past decade. Never mind that she even admitted to neglecting the property and had never asked for help.

No, just let too many people do what they too often do -- react to a headline that will get people talking, facts be damned. Then the media can even manipulate them into attacking one another in a war of hyperbole. Suddenly people who simply called her irresponsible were accused of being a mob calling for her head, for debtor's prisons, etc. I was told I've tossed my values out the window, that I'm petty and bitter and selfish. If that's all the respect I have here at DU, then fuck it. All hail absentee landlords!

No, Ms Holloway didn't want to lose money on her own investment but she really didn't give a damn if anyone else lost money on theirs. She let a property she owned become derelict for over a decade. She was not arrested for failing to keep her lawn looking like a putting green but for ignoring numerous citations over a period of years. It's called contempt of court.

I repeat, as I have stated several times throughout this thread, NO ONE should go to prison for not cutting their grass. But neither should people be crucified for criticizing her as irresponsible. Personally, I think the city and that judge could have worked out a reasonable compromise, perhaps a fine and an assurance that she and her husband would in future make some minimal effort to maintain the property.

But at least I took the time to investigate some of the facts behind this story. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go clean up the mess made by one of our neighborhood slumlords, who emptied yet another apartment from one of his many chopped up houses and dumped all the contents and furniture in a heap behind our garage. Then I need to go trim the bushes around his property so we can pull our car out without removing half the paint.

[leftyladyfrommo]

232. Lawns. are a terrible waste of water.

I do think you should keep them neat looking but i much pfrefer natural looking lawns

[Demsrule86]

233. Debtors prison make a return

This is ridiculous...how is it the 1% can give as much money as they want in elections...but we are so controlled we have to maintain a lawn?