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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 11:01 AM Nov 2014

I find this "you built it, no you didn't build it, I built it." argument insipid.

No businessperson is building anything of note without a vibrant infrastructure and all it entails. That doesn't deny that some folks just have more initiative, skills, pluck, whatever...but no businessperson does it by himself.


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I find this "you built it, no you didn't build it, I built it." argument insipid. (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2014 OP
Or customers buying or using their product. vi5 Nov 2014 #1
dont forget luck..like being born into the right families...they ALWAYS forget that fact VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #2
I should have added luck.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2014 #4
There's some luck. Igel Nov 2014 #8
WTF VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #9
all ceos know to make speeches to employees thanking teamwork unblock Nov 2014 #3
BUT! BUT! Ayn Rand! marym625 Nov 2014 #5
Could Trump, Gates, or Buffett have built their empires in a less developed nation? /NT DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2014 #6
Several billboards on the highway packman Nov 2014 #7
Obama screwed that line up big time...he should have said "you didn't build it BY YOURSELF". Ken Burch Nov 2014 #10
 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
1. Or customers buying or using their product.
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 11:03 AM
Nov 2014

If people don't have the means to pay for whatever product or service a company is selling, they don't take in any money with which to "create jobs".

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
2. dont forget luck..like being born into the right families...they ALWAYS forget that fact
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 11:05 AM
Nov 2014

All those things you mentioned might take all those skills just to get out of severe poverty...they dont corner the marketon those skills. They need to stop believing they are sooooo superior to everyone else...and we need to stop coddling that notion. It's downright unAmerican

Igel

(35,309 posts)
8. There's some luck.
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 03:29 PM
Nov 2014

Then again, it's "luck" to get the right genes, live in the right country, etc. But mostly luck applies at the level of individual occurrence. A deal works because you contacted the customer at precisely the right time; a week later and you'd be SOL. Of such make-or-break moments careers can be made ... in some cases.

And it cuts both ways. It's the same kind of "luck" that makes it possible for the child of two executives each making well into the 6-digits to be born autistic and be doing very well in life to be a gofer, or for a rich kid to fritter away the money that s/he inherited. We hear about the lucky/rich kid who's taken care of, not the rich fool or unlucky rich.

And while we like to hear about the rags-to-riches stories, we don't want to believe them if they don't apply to us or if we're convinced they're impossible. My one aunt died with millions in the bank. It was because she and her husband both worked 40 years, were frugal, and had no kids. They invested wisely and, in some ways, at the right time. My mother's going to die poor. She had kids. She invested too cautiously. Ceased frugality after about age 65. And has Alzheimer's, so that's chewing through the $600k she saved up. (Born into the right family? She left home at 17, a high school drop out, with $50. Married and pregnant a year later, divorced a year after that from a guy in prison; she was homeless. Her step-father helped her by giving her living space. The rest was hard work and the luck of finding a husband that provided stability and a second income for her and her son. Got her GED when she was 35, and worked overtime like you wouldn't believe.)

We also forget that "severe" poverty, persistent and intergenerational poverty, is what's hard to get out of. As soon as we say that, we drop "severe" and redefine poverty to being 180% of the poverty level. Those kids have no real impediment to being at the least middle class, and there's a lot of social mobility. (We like to cite the chances of going from the bottom 10% to the top 10% because if we cite the chances of going from the bottom 10% to the middle 30% it's not so bad. And we don't like citing the changes of starting in the top 10% and ending up in the bottom 50% because that blows our narrative out of the water. If the facts don't fit, toss them.)

It makes "luck" a priori excuse and not a post-hoc excuse because it's a good salve for the ego. It worked in my neighborhood--the guy who went back to school and was cross-certified in various ways got a job that increased his annual pay by 25-30% was "lucky." The kid who graduated with a bachelor's in cultural studies with a thesis on the history of rap was "unlucky" when, after a year, he was still bouncing from part-time fast-food job to part-time fast-food job. It had nothing to do with employability, experience, or anything else. It was luck, not an abundance or failure of wisdom and vision. It let the unemployed kid say he was just as good as the guy who got the good job--legally, morally, and in many ways this is perfectly true, neither is superior to the other. But the one guy was far wiser and more disciplined, and those are also traits that can denote a kind of superiority. But the kid's family tried to say that since it was just luck, their kid was in no way inferior. And that's silly. He choose foolishly. Even in his job hunting he didn't so much pound the pavement as tap it gently.

Obama's not superior to Palin. Obama's superior to Palin. Both are equally true because neither is anywhere close to being completely true.

Take Cathy L., a woman I knew years ago. She never made more than $10k/year. Depended on government assistance after her husband divorced her, and was a homemaker before she was divorced. Loyal to her sons and she helped them and others when possible. Cheerful. Hardworking. Optimistic. Caring and forgiving. But frail. Of uncertain health and ironclad morals. And she didn't have the brains of an hydrocephalic goose. In some ways, superior to many. In others, far inferior. With no way to sum up all the +s and -s to produce a single answer. In many ways I respect her more than I respect my mother or Obama.

It's not a one-size-fits-all term, "superiority." You gotta "curry" it--a technical term in some fields that means something like "break it up into parts, each of which is evaluated separately", named after a guy Curry (the alternative synonym is to "schonfinkelize" named after, well, Schoenfinkel). Treating superiority as all-or-nothing is to make the theory not as simple as possible, and not even simpler than possible, but far, far simpler than possible.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
9. WTF
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 05:06 PM
Nov 2014

This is America......we aim for equality....we may not acheive it in practice.....but we believe in it. No one is inferior by birth...nor superior by birth. We are supposed to honor anyone who puts in a full days work. Everyone is important. Cleaning toilets all day is as respectable role as much as any banker or politician or CEO because its necssary and someone has to do it....If you clean toilets for a living even for minimum wage....you deserve respect. We hav allowed far too many too many to forget that fact.

unblock

(52,227 posts)
3. all ceos know to make speeches to employees thanking teamwork
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 11:06 AM
Nov 2014

and then they go around boasting about how they're the single greatest team players ever.

most humblest ever as well no doubt.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
7. Several billboards on the highway
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 12:31 PM
Nov 2014

with businessmen proclaiming, "NO, Mr. President- I built my business , not you" with big, bold lettering shouting out their business name. Usually it has a white , angry looking guy with a sullen expression on his face plastered on it. This is in Alabama as we travel to the casino to waste our money and it really pisses me off seeing that type of closed mind thinking.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
10. Obama screwed that line up big time...he should have said "you didn't build it BY YOURSELF".
Sun Nov 2, 2014, 05:11 PM
Nov 2014

"the labor of your employees, both physical and intellectual, and the patronage of your consumers built it too".

Its almost if the line was said the way he said it just to inspire indignant small-business blowback and give the party another excuse to demonize progressives.

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