If you want to grasp how deeply and perversely warped by punitive authoritarian propaganda

[woo me with science]

Last edited Sun Nov 2, 2014, 05:23 PM - Edit history (2)

this nation has become...

...just consider that we now find ourselves (in a deeply politically corrupted nation that already imprisons - increasingly for PROFIT - more people than any other nation in the world) .... at a place of "debating" and humoring arguments...

...about whether it's a good idea to throw people in JAIL for not mowing their lawns.

Good god. Dog help us. I'm reminded of that jaw-dropping thread about a year ago when familiar authoritarian voices here were fervently advocating jailing people who toss a cigarette butt in the gutter. Yes, that was a real "discussion," too.




How does authoritarianism happen? Bit by bit, step by step, through changing people's thinking and gradually shifting what they perceive as normal and acceptable in terms of government use of punishment, its scope and purview. In corporate propaganda and the inevitable parroting of its poison, we are steadily acclimated to the idea of police state-style tactics of dealing with citizens, down to the most mundane matters. We are constantly invited to discuss, in utter seriousness and with great respect for the opposing arguments....expansions of our government's use of one of its most extreme powers:

[font size=2]the power, literally, to take our freedom, pull us out of our lives and families, and LOCK US IN A BOX.

[/font size]

Now it's for not mowing your lawn.

Think about that. Think about what that really means, and what kind of society you are asking for when you even humor these "arguments" justifying this garbage. We do not entertain "serious" and "rational" debates about the pros and cons of killing and eating small children. Yet every time we hear of an American being locked up for a new reason that would have left our grandparents open-mouthed, there are serene authoritarian voices inviting us to "discuss" it, to see both sides...to normalize it.

And this sick way of thinking now darkens, pervades, and pollutes conversations ranging from whether we really need our fundamental Constitutional rights and protections to how we should deal with the crabgrass down the road.

It is a *way of thinking,* and it is being bred and nurtured in us. And it is sick and perverse, no matter how much the oh-so-reasonable voices will assure you that it isn't. No, the observation that unmowed and untended lawns make neighborhoods look ugly does not (in any sane society) lead rationally to the conclusion that failing to mow a lawn therefore justifies locking up human beings.

The truth is that lots of other more enlightened countries don't do this. Their citizens don't automatically think this way. They don't view every civil nuisance and disagreement, every problem that arises in a civil context, as a trigger to call in the government to criminalize it, to punish, to lock someone up. They handle these things in other ways.

We are taught not even to conceive of other possible ways. Ways like engaging community to solve the problem, or even reconsidering how we are interpreting a "problem."

It doesn't have to be this way. Slow introduction of authoritarian thinking...that what we dislike ought therefore to be punished...is how a police state is slowly normalized.

I am really starting to think at this point that we need a live streaming feed of how people in, say, Norway or Sweden talk about problems like this. We need something to give this nation some perspective, to help us step out of this sick propaganda matrix, the FOX News, MSM, punitive daily messaging we marinate in...to see how perverse this thinking really is.

This shouldn't even be a discussion, folks. Reject the authoritarian voices. Watch the patterns, and reject the propaganda.

[ZombieHorde]

1. Thank you soooo much for this OP.

I hate our prison mentality.

Our recent torture history.
Our death penalties.
Our gun culture.
Our police violence issues.
Our sexism.
Our racism.
Our treatment of the homeless.
Our treatment of the sick.

I suspect these are all symptoms of something, but I don't know what. Maybe some smart sociologists will figure it out.

[Fred Sanders]

7. Creeping fascism is what it is, the sociologists are always late to confirming the current theories.

[Louisiana1976]

17. I agree. Jailing people for minor things like not mowing their lawn sounds like something that

would happen under a fascist dictatorship.

[truth2power]

70. It's not "creeping". n/t

[Dont call me Shirley]

12. Thank bushes and co.

[99th_Monkey]

27. I hate to say it but, ACLA believes "Obama worse than Bush.."

.. on issues related to Civil Liberties & prosecution of legitimate whistle blowers.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/06/14/columbus-aclu-says-obama-worse-than-bush-on-sivil-liberty-issues.html

[Dont call me Shirley]

30. The bushes pushed the boulder off the cliff, down the hill and it just won't stop till it hits rock

bottom.

The exponential attack on whistleblowers would have happened whether pres was D or R.

[99th_Monkey]

33. The Shrub had 8 years

compared to Obamas 6+

and the trend has only worsened with Obama, not improved at all.

That's not very convincing evidence for your case. sad to say.

[Dont call me Shirley]

37. Just not on the incessant blame O bandwagon.

Many of these programs were started before he even ran for pres in 2008. NSA spying, Fast and Furious to name a couple.

Blame the "first family of the U.S" the bushes, they have done such massive damage to this country of which they deserve the lions share of the blame.

[99th_Monkey]

40. I agree to a point. I am no fan of the Bush Crime Family ..

But how the WH & DoJ has handled Bradley/Chelsie Manning and Snowden (not to mention several lesser-knowns) has only hurt an already bad situation, not helped.

[Dont call me Shirley]

44. I suspect the attack on whistleblowers was already on the road to reality before O.

It was an inevitable situation stemming from patriot act.

[99th_Monkey]

52. umm. can you say Patriot Act promises broken?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1186455
Which is admittedly different than prosecuting whistle-blowers, yet is a related "national security" issue.

More to the point is this July 2013 Daily Kos post lamenting how "protecting whistle-blowers" had been disappeared from Obama's "CHANGE.GOV" website.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/26/1226865/-Obama-s-Promise-to-Protect-Whistleblowers-Has-Disappeared-From-Change-gov#

[840high]

56. Thank you.

[Dont call me Shirley]

59. At least with O they stand trial, with B they got killed

http://www.globalresearch.ca/lawsuit-against-bush-and-blair-for-war-crimes-international-lawyers-seek-justice-for-iraqis/5378991

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/iraq-war-killed-journalists_n_2907550.html

[99th_Monkey]

60. Here's to baby-steps. I'll happily give Obama that ...

While Obama is at it, taking baby-steps, do you think -- since he does NOT face another re-election -- that he might consider nominating a new Attorney General who is super-qualified to, and committed to, redressing the grievance burdening every democracy-loving heart, which is happening right under our noses, in broad daylight, thanks to John Conyers, Greg Palast, BradBlog.com, et. al. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025748099

[Dont call me Shirley]

76. That would be a wonderful lame duck surprise!

Many times, when these programs that started in B admin explode into the public awareness, O has handled them with great skill. The gops just keep screaming about them until people look at them like they are a big joke. They don't stick onto O, they slam right back into the gops faces.

Let's just list all the scandals they have tried to shift blame onto to O:

Benghazi
IRS
Fast n furious
NSA spying
Please add more...

The gops did the very same thing to Clinton. They use the same MO until the masses are onto their shill game. Look at the big picture, MO is always the same.

[OnyxCollie]

89. Anwar Al-Awlaki and his son say otherwise.

Well, they would, if the Obama administration hadn't executed them without a trial.

[Dont call me Shirley]

98. The drone program is very disturbing. The program also started under B.

http://understandingempire.wordpress.com/2-0-a-brief-history-of-u-s-drones/

[OnyxCollie]

110. The Obama administration came up with this on their own:

Attorney General Eric Holder Speaks at Northwestern University School of Law
Chicago ~ Monday, March 5, 2012
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speeches/2012/ag-speech-1203051.html

Some have argued that the President is required to get permission from a federal court before taking action against a United States citizen who is a senior operational leader of al Qaeda or associated forces. This is simply not accurate. “Due process” and “judicial process” are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process.

[rhett o rick]

50. I think you are correct. "Many of these programs were started before he even ran for pres in 2008."

And once he got into office he found out he had no more control of the NSA/CIA Security State than Bush. Now how the DOJ behaves is a different story. Why does the DOJ treat whistleblowers so badly? The Pres Obama's DOJ has not been nice to journalists.

See further discussion here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025726338

I appreciate your desire to give Pres Obama the benefit of the doubt, but I think you are wrong.

[Dont call me Shirley]

99. These programs have all spiraled into an uncontrollable state of perpetual growth.

I'm not sure the pres would have the ability to shut any one of them down. They seem to be on auto-drive.

The O admin has been too rough on whistleblowers and journalists. How can we pressure him to stop? Can that even be stopped? What I'm presenting is that the course of these programs, including the "war on journalists and whistleblowers" may not be able to be ended without hitting a 20 ft deep concrete wall.

O has been far from a progressive pres, but the constant bashing is driving people, especially young people, away from voting and politics. And it is driving Independants over to the R side. It is counter-productive.

[rhett o rick]

100. It appears that he isn't even trying to slow down the ever increasing spiral of

power that the Security State has. That's not acceptable. If my saying so drives young people away from the process, I am sorry, but I WILL NOT SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.

Pres Obama has been more sever on whistle-blowers, investigative journalists, and protestors than any Republican president. That's a fact that the young voters can see for themselves. How are they to take it?

[Dont call me Shirley]

102. He began his presidency by trying to close Guantanamo. Guess who opposed, virulently?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120502795.html

His record on whistleblowers is not good at all. But the Caucus Room Conspiracy is alive and thriving and it (they, the gop) is causing way more damage to this country than O ever has or would.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/21536-the-republican-conspiracy-has-worked

[Maedhros]

104. Didn't try to "close" Gitmo.

Tried to move it to the continental U.S.

[rhett o rick]

106. Yes The Newt is a bad person but that doesn't excuse or detract from

the persecution of whistle-blowers and journalists by this administration.

[Dont call me Shirley]

108. This conversation has gotten so far off my original post where I was sarcastically thanking

the bushes and co for ushering in authoritarianism and then became a bash O gangbang.

Wherever the bushes are authoritarianism is lurking closeby.

[rhett o rick]

109. We all recognize the Republican authoritarians. But some of us are in denial re. Democratic

authoritarianism.

[truth2power]

71. "trend has only worsened under Obama". You're correct, monkey..

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Obama has had nearly 6 years, but according to some, here, he's been helpless to stop it. Furthermore, he's been helpless to <not> affirmatively make it worse. Got it.

Repeat after me: "No Democrat can be blamed for our plight."

Edit: Nine hours later I just noticed that I left out the word "not" in my post. ...helpless to NOT affirmatively make it worse. It was exceedingly early in the a.m.

[99th_Monkey]

92. Funny how The Shrub could do any damn fool thing he wanted,

but Obama is mostly helpless to make any real change, on Wall St. or the ME.

There's something out of balance about that picture.

[Maedhros]

105. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

- Edmund Burke

[ReRe]

72. It's a sympton of...

... a moral decay in our society. I say it's a result of morally backrupt capitalism.

[malokvale77]

2. Quite a sorry lot we have become

I saw the thread earlier on here and was really disheartened to see some of the replies.

[Douglas Carpenter]

3. there is no problem increased cruelty will not solve

At least that seems like the American philosophy sometimes. If some foreign entity is acting up - damn the consequences - bomb them to smithereens. If some people are acting up all they need are harsher punishments - even if it doesn't work - fuck that - who cares? They are being punished and that is all that matters. - If the poor are getting winy - all they need is a good old fashioned kick in the ass.

[DonCoquixote]

20. If the problem was that simple

Half of wall Street would be in Jail, at least their crimes actually DID hurt people.

[99th_Monkey]

28. Actually it's only a War on Poor People & People of color.

So Wall St. felons and fraudsters get a pass.

[scarystuffyo]

4. I understand what you're saying but the only power a goverment has over it's people is prison and

forfeiture for non violent crimes

You want to take that power away?

where do I sign...........

[Fred Sanders]

6. What?

[scarystuffyo]

8. This is what started it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5747212

[noiretextatique]

25. i posted a link to that thread

insane that some people support this crap.

[scarystuffyo]

29. I don't think one person in the thread said they supported her being in jail for 6 hours

but I can also understand a city imposing and enforcing zoning laws .

The question is if a city can't enforce it with the court system then they really
have no enforcement over any zoning and code violations .

It would pretty much be do anything you want on your own property .

[noiretextatique]

38. some people are totally supporting that ridiculous overkill response

and ...and waste of resources.

[scarystuffyo]

45. Listen I know what you're are saying but we also have to put it just a little

in perspective with her.

They have owned this property for over 13 years and have never lived in it.
They bought it as an investment either to resell for a profit it or to rent it out.

She said her self they did let the place get run down over all these years due to neglect .
People who buy property for these reasons and let it run down due to neglect are no
shinning example of good neighbors either.

To be honest I wouldn't want my home next to someone that would do this .
I would rather have an owner that either lives in his home or if he is an absentee owner pay some one to
take care of it.


This woman said she still has children living in her home. These aren't babies , They are teenagers

Buy an inexpensive push mower fro Lowes or Home depot for $129.00 and let one of the teens mow the lawn.

[99th_Monkey]

32. One need look no further than Norway or Sweden to see how a humane nation behaves

to see how a humane nation treats its misfits. nutters, and criminals.

The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

Why is Sweden Closing it's Prisons?
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/01/why-sweden-closing-prisons

This is not rocket science. Cruelty and vindictiveness has never helped anyone, and never will IMHO,.

The track record of these two nations (among others) provides all the evidence anyone should need to prove this beyond a shadow of doubt .. unless of course someone has other reasons for wanting cruelty and vindictiveness to be wielded against the poor, the desperate and criminals who happen to be black or hispanic

[Fred Sanders]

39. Sweden CLOSING prisons, can you imagine the shareholder outrage if an American prison closed?

What would happen to profits to grease the politicians to fool the voters to vote the politicians in to grease the profits?

[99th_Monkey]

43. Yah, the Face-Shooter's defibrillator might explode. nt

[scarystuffyo]

47. um , there's not a single thing you wrote I disagree with

I just think I'm involved in two separate issues in the thread

[ReRe]

73. Hear! Hear!

[BubbaFett]

75. They can take your life

[Orsino]

88. If only courts could levy financial penalties.

But until that enlightened day, I guess we'll have to continue the executions.

[Fred Sanders]

5. Militarization of holidays and parades and sporting events and political rallies and even the

fucking 7 th inning stretch at the World Series.....it is conditioning on a vast scale not seen since the 1930's, but based on the same time tested and proven principles of propaganda.

[jalan48]

22. Media

And the constant barrage of police/military shows on prime time television hyping the threat of danger to a gullible public and the need for more policing to get the "bad guys" and keep America (flags waving in the back ground) safe.

[L0oniX]

87. Old school was romanticizing war through movies and US pledge with heart crossed in grade school.

[randome]

9. Virtually no one said that prison was a viable alternative in this case.

In fact, the vast majority who agreed that the couple should face consequences specifically said she did not deserve jail time.

So...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[rhett o rick]

103. Is that all you got out of the OP?

[etherealtruth]

10. Fear and ignorance...

...sadly, the Republicans have become masters of harnessing fear and playing to ignorance and bias

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Yay, for conformity! Join the "keeping up with the Joneses" ratrace!

Don't be late hanging up your XMAS lights!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

54. Ah, Ron Cobb, one of the great political cartoonists.

[DesertDiamond]

13. Just noticed people are now excusing police brutality with, "Well that person shouldn't have ______"

fill in the blank

[Populist_Prole]

34. Bingo

"If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about...."

Pretty much all the right wing ying-yangs I know are all "law & order" "lock 'em up" types as long as it's "those people". That's fine, as long as they don't get a traffic citation; then they bleat about tyranny by the government. Stupid wankers.

[Live and Learn]

93. +1 nt

[Faux pas]

14. I'm pretty sure the prison population in the US is higher

than the chart shows. When I worked for Calif Dept of Corrections, the inmates on the buses being transported were NOT counted as part of the population.

Either way, we (as a country) are an ass.

[Man from Pickens]

15. People getting thrown in jail over untended lawns

had someone actually argue that that was an OK response to an untended lawn, because property values demanded it

[Major Hogwash]

16. City code.

Community standards set by the people from within that community.
They do the same thing here.

[scarystuffyo]

24. Do you live in North Korea

[Major Hogwash]

49. Hahaha, yeah, because having city codes is just like living in North Korea!!!

Oh my, that was funny.

[LanternWaste]

78. No more and no less than ignoring a unkempt lawn should result in jail...

"having city codes is just like living in North Korea!!!"

No more and no less than ignoring a unkempt lawn should result in jail...

[rhett o rick]

51. So let's guess your point. The reason the US has such a problem with incarcerations is "city codes"

And that's just fine.

So do you think the OP has a point or not? Maybe just pick on one item of the OP and hope that will negate the whole OP.

[Corruption Inc]

18. If people just read a few books on the history of propaganda in the U.S. they'd easily see it

Most people would rather look at kitty cat pictures than read a book, they're dumb by choice.

[jtuck004]

69. No, they are dumb by training. You don't think we spent all that money on schools

and training to turn out people who would challenge us, do you?

How do you think you get through 12 years of schooling and don't want to vote?

note: I don't usually use the word "dumb" because it's not descriptive enough, but I used it here 'cause it was easier. Should find a better one, though, They aren't dumb, and the slaves on the plantations weren't dumb. Harriet Tubman said that half of them just didn't know they were slaves.

That is an example of how education and training can stop you from even questioning the very humanity of your existence.

[ReRe]

74. It's a fact...

Probably close to 3 out of 4 adults haven't cracked a book since high school.

[LWolf]

19. k & r

[Phlem]

21. Awe sit down and shut up till after Wednesday!

This is the view of many here in DU to the point they need to silence individuals of a discussion group via the alert system.

Authoritarian? Manipulative?

Hell Yes.

Thanks Woo for bringing to light the authoritarian creep in our lives.

I push back everyday because I recognize it for what is, I've lived it all my life and am still surrounded by it. It needs to be stopped.

As always, spot on Woo. Your a treasure.

[noiretextatique]

23. good example right here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025747212

[blkmusclmachine]

26. The Religious Reich's hate speech is growing ever more violent. Kill gay people. Impose a State

Death Penalty on "unruly, rebellious children." Kill gay people. Impose a King James version of Sharia Law on women and girls (they call it "Biblical law&quot . Kill gay people. Turn over secular, humanist government to a extreme hard right Church, and a pastor will have veto rights over every facet of your personal, private lives. And kill gay people. Especially imprison and kill the gay people.

And they wrote themselves around the Constitution/Bill of Rights in the years following right after 9/11. All the Religious Reich needs is a compliant President to make it happen...


Sieg Heil! And Amen, too!


Who they are ... the Christian Dominionists. Not a Church. But a perverted, extreme hard right authoritarian mindset. Their "theology" is known as the New Apostolic Reformation theology movement. And they are extremely sociopathic. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[blkmusclmachine]

35. The big outfit in this movement is "THE FAMILY"/"THE FELLOWSHIP,"

based in Washington DC and Alexandria VA. They own a Church on C street in DC, where they house Senators (D) and (R), and it's famously been dubbed the "Frathouse For Jesus." Their mission is to convert the planet to their whacked-out version of "Christianity." (Convert, or die.) They have put on the Presidents Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC since 1952, which they use as a springboard to get like-minded people into positions of power in countries around the world.

[SomethingFishy]

31. What's freaky is a lot of so called liberals like this sort of thing...

Which is why I spend less and less time here. Too many people cheering on the descent into a police state.

I said in a thread a couple weeks ago that the citizenry has become the police. Walking around armed to the teeth, patrolling the border, watching their neighbors. "If you see something say something".. The police have become soldiers, complete with military grade weapons, armor, and training, and sent out to "pacify" anyone who dares speak out. Our military has become the enforcer of foreign policy.

We are paranoid, freaked out and fucked up. One afternoon of watching Fox news could have you cowering in the corner with your doors locked and your lights off..

24/7 fear is a shitty way to live and I refuse to do it.

[Hortensis]

42. No. At most, only "so-called" liberals, ones who never questioned their beliefs, act that way.

We probably all know some. People who call themselves liberals because they associate it with a youth they're clinging to or because they live in a predominantly liberal area and, very characteristically for conservatives, want to conform.

[KoKo]

53. Recommend...but, it's not only FAUX News.......it's all of them...

and when some try to post news from the few remaining (underfunded) REAL LEFT SITES...it's met with what "YOU SAY" as a way of Discounting Other News that they don't want to read. "Faux News" is an excellent DISTRACTION along with the other Stuff of "Celebrity Gossip" and the "Cause of the Moment" that soon goes buy without action but it got lots of "Recommeds" and "Comments" and so people are happy with that.

Not much SERIOUS here these days...because it's all about the ELECTIONS...and not any GRASSROOTS WORK....that would really make "THE CHANGE."

[truedelphi]

61. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And I am waiting for someone

To go, "Oh so you say!!" Hrmp! Hrmp!

[L0oniX]

84. You'd fit right in at DI. Nothing but attacks on liberals there.

[SomethingFishy]

96. Go push someone else's buttons, if you disagree with what I posted

then maybe you are the problem and not I. I am a liberal and a supporter of liberals. It's quite possible that if you are a fan of the Patriot Act, the NSA, and the coming police state, then you aren't actually a liberal.

[rock]

36. We are now a nation of largely con-artists and bullies

at least for the ones in power.

[Enthusiast]

41. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

Thank you, woo me with science.

[MADem]

46. I KNOW China doesn't release their figures, nor does Iran, and I wouldn't be surprised if Russia

fudges the numbers.


That said, if we got rid of all the people on drug charges (and by "get rid of" I mean release from incarceration) that would be a very good first step.

[Live and Learn]

48. K&R nt

[Warren DeMontague]

55. And even here, some people desperately defend filling our prisons with people for pot smoking.

It's fucking inane.

[truedelphi]

57. I was bored one day and read the newspaper thoroughly to find out that in Norway

The officials there had decided that their regimen of letting people who were about to serve a serious ten year or more prison sentence to first go home and spend some weeks or months dealing with getting thngs in order before prison, well, that regimen was not working. They found this out because some of the people they so entrusted did not ever show up to serve their time.

So no more Mr Nice Guy. If you should murder your wife and several of your neighbors, in Norway, you now must go to jail immediately after the jury finds you guilty.

Of course, I imagine they still have wonderful dancers, artists and writers and playwrights and others who come into the jail and help you open up to your more creative self, because after all, that is what jails are about - rehabilitation of those poor souls who have gone wrong and need to sort things out so that at the end of the ten years, they can come out, rejoin society and and have a good life.

[Tsiyu]

58. I. Just.

Love.

This.

[cprise]

62. Punitive towards the little guy

When it comes to wealthy and powerful people, the 'Freedom' propaganda is unfurled.

[JEB]

63. Generally, with exceptions, one gets as much justice

as one can afford.

[F4lconF16]

64. That's prety much the sum of it.

Add that to the fact that you're already screwed if you're a minority or a historically oppressed group, and you've got the American "justice" system in a nutshell.

[grahamhgreen]

65. Now your lawn or we'll mow you down!

[blackspade]

66. Agreed. Authoritarianism is a poison pill in a democracy.

Secrecy and propaganda are the tools that are used to stifle and change public opinion.

[markpkessinger]

67. That such jailings are defended, even here, on the basis of a potential decline in property values..

... is simply appalling. I mean, where in the Constitution are we promised freedom from declining property values? Guess I missed that part . . .

[lisby]

68. Bravo. nt

[Javaman]

77. I forget the exact quote or even who said it but it goes somethinglike this...

evil comes in on kittens paws

[MannyGoldstein]

79. But Terra!

ISIS, or whoever is the current most-terrible-terra-group -ever, could hide in overgrown grass.

We live in a post-9/11 world and stuff.

(Great post. I feel bad about responding with sarcasm, but there's nothing I can really add to yours.)

[marmar]

80. k/r a million times

[sibelian]

81. Yes. It's not a political process, it's psychological, wide-ranging, and plain evil.

The Objectification of Humanity. People are seen as a means to an end. And what IS the end? Orwell said it himself - control is the end, not the means.

Naturally any mention of him generates the rolling of eyes these days.

Please keep posting, woo.

[stupidicus]

82. well, it's a natural product of traveling on the turdway

those that do so accept the whole turd eventually. It's not just a matter of accepting and embracing/sharing the corporate flag with their rightwing cousins, but also their mindset/worldview, and the means and methods of enforcing them in what we find unacceptable ways and measures.

After all, that's why their debating tactics, etc, around here as I've repeatedly noted, are identical -- you BHO-hating Paulbot...lol

good post woo

[whereisjustice]

83. Amercian parents must really hate their children to let NSA spy on them. eom

[L0oniX]

85. On the other hand we have people getting murdered over loud music and popcorn.

The least we could do about prison population is free all the non-violent pot offenders, that would bring the population down by at least 1,000,000.

[leftstreet]

86. DURec

[hifiguy]

90. Kick and rec.

Yes, it's already fascism. "Soft" facism but becoming harder every day.

[99Forever]

91. As always Woo TRUTH TO POWER.

Thank you for your fearlessness

[zeemike]

94. Well said.

Another great Woo post to kick and R.

[Zorra]

95. K&R nt

[True Blue Door]

97. The vast majority of prisoners are because of the Drug War.

That's a lesson in authoritarianism itself, but we shouldn't get hysterical about anecdotal outrages either.

If you were to comb laboriously through paper records for all the reasons people have been jailed over the decades, in every state of the country, you'd find volumes of similar outrages - hippies locked up for having long hair, kids thrown in juvy for skateboarding, etc. etc.

Authoritarians are everywhere and in all ages, and the difference between an authoritarian society and a free one is that the latter fights back, not that the authoritarians don't keep trying to lock people up for anything that annoys them.

The Drug War is really the subject to focus on if you want to fight the prison state in a practical way.

[malaise]

101. But but but

there are private prisons to fill

[Initech]

107. Remember this system was created under Reagan And Nixon.

And yet the right wing worships Reagan. Fuck them.