I have seen a lot on DU, but advocating not voting sure jumps the shark

[still_one]

The millinials may not be happy with the direction of the Democratic Party, and believe there is no difference between the two major parties, so at least based on some of the threads going around they are advocating we will show those corporate Democrats by not voting.

The only thing not voting does is make you irrelevant.

[Gman]

1. It was the same shit in 2010

Because they're cool like that or something.

[SCVDem]

63. Ahhh Yuuppp!

Mr Stewart is in a comedians heaven.

[librechik]

2. I would never advocate not voting

On the other hand, we have to solve the problem where our votes mean nothing.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html

Let's solve this problem so we can vote confidently again.

[Scootaloo]

3. People keep telling Still_One this. he keeps not paying attention

Just let him stew in his outrage.

[librechik]

5. hey, thx! n/t

[still_one]

15. You got a personal thing for me scootaloo. This the second time you called me out by name. Get a

Life or put me on ignore please.

[Scootaloo]

22. Well, it's the second time you've engaged in derogatory garbage and nonsense

Well, the second time I've responded to, seen plenty more besides.

Telling you why people aren't voting is not the same as advocating not voting. Questioning hte usefulness of voting in a rigged system, is not advocating not voting. Talking about the undesirability of candidates presented on the ballot, is not the same as advocating not voting.

Go back to nursing your rage that there are people who were born after 1968.

[still_one]

28. At least now your talking to me directly, instead of replying to someone else about me

Thank you

[billhicks76]

43. Sign Of A Bigger Problem

Thinking voting will change anything is delusional at this point. Being blackmailed by centrist sell outs we nominate by being threatened with a worse alternative is BS. People are fed up and angry. We need real representation and maybe the streets is the only way we will get it. I know one thing. I will never vote for a corporate opportunist like Hillary Clinton. Only fools would go down that path again. Expect to lose a huge chunk if the base by voting for our version if Romney.

[Man from Pickens]

76. Primary fights are where it's at

If you don't vote in the primary then you are giving up the vast majority of your ability to influence the political system through the ballot box. That's where all the real decisions are made.

The corporations don't care who wins the general election when both the major party candidates are already in their pocket. Whoever wins owes them favors.

The key is to identify the beholden candidates and make sure they don't get any nominations. That way, the general election offers a real choice rather than an authorization of the corporate agenda.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Not sure the word 'advocate' means what you think it does.

Now maybe you've actually seen some postings where people have told you you shouldn't vote.

I've only seen ones where people were explaining why people they'd talked to had decided not to vote, but that's not 'advocacy'.

[m-lekktor]

6. understanding why people won't vote isn't the same as advocating.

I have read well thought out opinion pieces advocating not voting though i never would abstain.

I must have missed those posts where DUers were full out advocating not voting.

[Doctor_J]

9. of course no one advocated not voting

The turd way is much better at drumming up straw men than votes

[Rex]

11. Desperation, they failed miserably on the fourth and did the only thing they know who to do

blame the Left. Of course if more people knew they were nothing more than libertarians, they wouldn't be so bold.

[Doctor_J]

7. They are already irrelevant. even when they voted in droves in 2008

their desire for uhc, less drilling, prosecution of the Bush family, end of the war, etc. Was ignored. Nice sound bite, complete nonsense

[frazzled]

10. I would say non-voters are the MOST relevant

They just gave us a Republican majority in the Senate and increased majority in the House, as well as a lot of crappy new R governors and state houses.

That's RELEVANT. Far more relevant than those of us who voted, but failed to have our candidates win because not enough people came out to vote for them. Not voting is about the most relevant thing you can do--for the opposite party.

Which is why I say below "agents provocateurs"--not because they are necessarily working for the Republicans, but because their antagonistic stance toward government is intended to bring about crisis ... leading to some future imagined Edenic state of bliss. It's like religious fundies: waiting for heaven.

Turnout is the most relevant thing about democracy. It doesn't work without it.

[A Simple Game]

23. I will never understand how someone accused of not voting can also be accused of causing

someone to be elected. How do you know who the non-voter didn't vote for? Do all Republicans vote? Is it only Democrats that don't vote? Only liberals? Only millennials? Is it possible for one non-vote to cancel out another non-vote? I voted so how many non-votes did my vote cancel?

My god! What ever you do, don't tell the Republicans, they'll want to have hearing about all this non-voter fraud!

Where can I view the statistics on who the non-voters would have voted for if they had voted?

Please let me know how you can make such a statement and have it be true?

Non-voters are going to bring about a crisis? Seems not to have worked for the last, oh 100 years or so. You ever notice what percentage of eligible voters actually vote?

There was a poster a couple of days ago blaming the millennials for the poor Democratic party performance on Tuesday. Said the Democrats lost because of poor millennial turnout. I guess the poster never checked the history of young people voting. Young people don't turn out in large numbers to vote, never have probably never will. If you base your chances of winning on the youth vote, you probably don't deserve to win.

We will never find the solution if we don't recognize the problem. It's not the voters, it's the candidates.

[frazzled]

26. People on this board who claim to be liberal/progressive, for starters

Those who didn't vote obviously did not contribute to vote tallies for Democrats in their districts, and therefore, helped the Republicans to win.

It's really very very simple math.

[A Simple Game]

39. So 100% of Republicans voted, fascinating, either because it's true or because

you believe it to be true. If their not voting didn't contribute to vote tallies for Democrats, they also didn't contribute to vote tallies for Republicans, it's really very simple math. Unless you actually interview the non-voters to find out who they would have actually voted for if they had bothered to vote, you can't know who their non-vote may or may not have benefited. But what you and others don't see is that they were never going to vote, period, it made no difference.

I will ask you a question, what is the average voter turnout in the United States? Never mind, it's 60% in Presidential years and 40% in mid-term years. If a candidate expects better than the average in order to win, they don't deserve to win because they aren't smart enough. So who's fault was it the last time, the time before that, and the time before that? Oh, who's fault was it when Democrats actually did well, Republican non-voters?

If you can't see the problem you will never find the solution. It's the candidates, not the voters!

[frazzled]

47. You are being purposefully dense

No analyst of this election would agree with you.

Every person in the universe knows that overall turnout is lower in midterm years than in presidential years. Big d'oh. The question is turning out your demographics with the percentages that can win. The Republicans turned out a greater percentage of their base—namely, white males and suburban white married women. Republicans, in fact, INCREASED their winning-demographic percentage in this midterm election over the 2012 presidential election. For example:

Voters 45-to-64 and 65 and over went for Mitt Romney in 2012 and for Republicans this year. They made up 54 percent of the electorate in 2012 but a whopping 67 percent on Tuesday

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120138/2014-election-results-heres-why-democrats-lost-senate-gop

The Democratic turnout DECREASED in terms of the percentages of their winning demographics (young voters, African Americans).

So yes, if you are a Democrat or so-called liberal and didn't vote, you contributed to the outcome of this election.

I'm off to a concert. No time to argue.

[A Simple Game]

49. And you know that comparing a Presidential year to a mid-term is meaningless.

Again, if you expect votes that were never going to be there, you will lose.

And again, if you fail to see the problem, you will never learn the solution.

Have fun at your concert.

[mazzarro]

69. So if the rePuglican party turned out its base, why did the Democratic party not do the same? - n/t

[billhicks76]

44. Before Whining About People Getting In Line

Clean your own house and give them something worth voting for. The moderates and centrists are the ones who ruined this election not the Progressives. If you don't like people pointing out the truth about the corruption within our own party then that really is your own problem.

[appalachiablue]

34. good points.

[treestar]

77. why would they expect to get everything and immediately?

you're telling me they are immature and don't understand the system.

and they didn't help their own cause by not voting, if that is the case.

If they wanted all that, they should have gone out in 2010 to make sure Congress stayed D so there was more time.

I can't believe this defense of this childish shit. No politicians could live up to demands like that and it shows they don't even understand the system. I guess they though Obama alone would "run the country."

[frazzled]

8. Agents provocateurs

Fortunately, DU is a very small universe.

[billhicks76]

46. Agent Provacateurs

They are a very real thing and we have had to deal with them for decades. Actually infiltrating movements in person. And the online versions are here too. Especially the ones excusing NSA and related war crimes. They always support the establishment. Paid for with your tax dollars.

[Chemisse]

12. Do you have a link for this?

I am very surprised that people who go out of their way to engage in political discussions (via DU) would advocate not voting.

[still_one]

18. Here is the main link based on a "open letter', and the responses in the thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5783845

[Historic NY]

13. I'm pretty sure not voting is like holding your breath...

you ain't getting shit out of it. People will learn its a long road to 2016 and longer if the pukes capture the WH too, 2020 or maybe 2024. I'm sure they can't get their country back by then.

Republicans vote in every piss ant election and Democrats should too.

[ReRe]

57. I'm one of those...

... and I'm a Democrat. If the polls are open, I'm voting.

[Historic NY]

59. +1

how do we make others understand that...

My uncle was a dye in the wool Democrat politician, today those that remain from the FDR era are ostracized here on DU...they were the true progressives. He is gone now but his last vote before his death in Dec 2004 was for Barack Obama.

He always said vote in evey election cause if you don't the Republican will. There will be lots of pain to get back to 2008.

[ReRe]

62. My Mother was the same way...

... I helped her fill out her absentee ballot 8 days before she passed. It was a little local election. She was in Hospice two days after she voted. And she, too, was a Democrat. An FDR Democrat.

[Historic NY]

64. Real grass roots Dems..understand.

[Eatacig]

14. Not Voting

In 2010 Jon Stewart told people to vote for the Teabaggers, so they did. In 2014 he told
the young people not to vote. He pretended he did not vote. When are people going to get
a clue as to what side he is on? Quit following him.

[F4lconF16]

32. Yes, Jon Stewart is really a Republican plant

Who's life goal is to be the most liberal comedian ever. By making fun of Republicans and doing a better job at getting the news out than any of the rest of the media, he is clearly trying his hardest to take down the Democratic party.

[billhicks76]

48. Yeah Right

It's all Jon Stewarts fault. LMFAO. Seriously. This is getting pathetic. Get over yourselves and take responsibility. Letting centrists take over the liberal agenda is what tanked us. They stand for nothing.

[Historic NY]

60. Step away from the crack pipe!!

TROLL!!!!!!!!

[Martin Eden]

16. Millenials should be concerned about the future ...

... because they will be spending a lot more time in it than a Boomer like me.

If you don't like the current crop of Dem candidates (I concur!) then invest some of your boundless energy to change the Democratic Party from the bottom up.

Meanwhile, use whatever means you have (i.e. VOTE!!!) to limit the damage the Republicans can and will do.

[Doctor_J]

19. They are. They also know that voting for any of the current politicians isn't going to help

[Martin Eden]

24. Maybe so, but more Republicans in office will very likely cause real damage.

Also, ballots include selections for federal, state, local, and referendums.

I wonder how many of the Millenials who withheld their vote in the senate race went to the polls and made selections elsewhere in the ballot.

[MH1]

80. So, "let's go over the cliff RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!1!!"

instead of staying on this challenging road that might take us over the cliff in the future, if we aren't successful in changing course?

Wonderful logic. Speaks so well of our educational system. (No wonder US companies want to get all their programmers and engineers from India. Well, that and the lower salary I guess.)

[nomorenomore08]

17. Activism is just as important as voting. But I still think not voting is kind of dumb.

Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature, so voting for the "lesser evil" feels very intuitive to me.

[Odin2005]

20. Nobody is ADVOCATING not voting.

We are explaining WHY people don't vote.

[still_one]

25. OK, let me agree that may be the point, and I missed it. I will still argue there is no excuse for

NOT voting. If someone disagrees with the 2 major parties, they should still vote. If the numbers are that large, and looking at the pathetic voter turnout in this country, those who don't vote make a sizable segment of the population, if those non-voters got together for a common cause, and voted, it would shake up the whole political landscape

Hell, I am not a green party fan because I personally believe working within the Democratic party for change, but I sure respect the greens for standing up for what they believe in, and going to the polls to vote.

[F4lconF16]

36. Then why on earth are you posting bullshit OPs like this?

Everywhere I see you posting you're attacking millenials for not voting, attacking liberals for asking too much out of their politicians, attacking anyone who even hints at the idea that maybe Democrats stand for nothing right now.

If you really feel that you missed the point, than you should delete this OP, because it's blatantly untrue. Otherwise, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're just going to keep attacking anyone and everyone that tries to explain to you why millenials didn't vote.

[whatchamacallit]

40. +1!

Welcome to DU!

[still_one]

50. I didn't say I agree with that premise, I was presenting the scenario the poster presented, and say

suppose that scenario is correct, that is no excuse for not voting

As far as the reason for my original OP, it is based on various threads and comments saying the reason millineals didn't vote is because there was no one to vote for, and that is a justification for not voting

[tkmorris]

66. Whether it's "justified" isn't the point

The point is it's TRUE. Now we can call them all idiots for not voting if we want to but I don't think that's gonna get em to the polls next time, do you?

[Jack Rabbit]

21. Dissenting

Even though I just wrote a long OP about the irrelevance of the political process, I do not and would not advocate not voting.

It may be an exercise in futility, but it does no harm.

What I advocate at this point is direct action against the the oligarchs, which is now the only way to fix the problem.

[MisterP]

30. by shoehorning any demands for leadership change or criticism of bipartisan collusion

into some widespread "abstentionist conspiracy"--even after an election lost despite all efforts to "GOTMFV" thanks to undistinguished campaigning--they can safely ignore the criticisms being made

in 2000-2 they ruled 3rd parties out of bounds, opposition to Iraq 2002-4, primaries 2005-8 (their claims of a lefty purge were in fact softening everyone up for the officalists' purge of nearly a dozen progressives), public criticism 2009-13 (the "veal pen" era), not voting enough 2014, and now it's replacing the leadership that'll supposedly DESTROY THE PARTY FOREVER

they've never been right once

[Warpy]

29. Most of it is just rhetoric

because of the horrible disappointment of keeping so much Republican dead wood in Congress.

[still_one]

31. You have a point. Blame game, frustration, etc.

[Android3.14]

35. Mainly cowardice

From people incapable of facing the truth of why the election failed. Our leadership failed us. It's time for new leadership in the Democratic Party.
It is time for a purge.

[Android3.14]

33. Screw this lie

I haven't run across anyone who advocates not voting.
Your OP is misleading and unethical.

[still_one]

45. I base it on this thread, and many of the comments contained in it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5783845

I have seen other similar threads justifying the reason millineals didn't vote is because they had no one to vote for

The only reason not to vote is if your vote is being suppressed, or you are physically unable to

[Android3.14]

53. You are being obtuse

All the folks in that thread advocate voting, some more than others. Your OP shows a cowardice that I find appalling, but typical of the current Democratic Party.

It is time for a purge.

[still_one]

54. go for it. have a good day

[Cha]

73. You're so sweet.. "have a good day".. and so patient, still _one~

[Cha]

72. LOL.. "You are being obtuse"..

[Android3.14]

92. Oh look

Someone with 152,000 posts can copy and paste. I wish I had a program that could do that.

[GoneOffShore]

37. Yesterday I posted - Not voting isn't a protest, it's a surrender.

And if voting wasn't important, why do the pols spend so much money on campaign ads?

[djean111]

38. "Advocating to not vote"? Dorothy called - she wants her scarecrow back.

[no1uno]

41. First and foremost.....

the best thing we can do as Democrats is NOT to insult these young folks. Put yourself in their place and realize do they really have anything to look forward to?

[stupidicus]

42. how long have you supported corporatist dems and policies benefitting them they produce?

eom

[still_one]

51. what are you talking about. This is about voting or not voting, not WHO to vote for

[stupidicus]

83. in other words

your support for them is so great that you can't understand why someone would advocate not voting for them.

that's pretty typical of the thirdwayer ways and limitations.

[still_one]

84. Take care

[stupidicus]

85. I'll take what I want

like your tacit concession that your a fighter for the thirdway ways

[geek tragedy]

93. No intelligent, sane person equates advocacy of exercising the right to vote

with being a third way sellout.

Your tirades in this thread are bizarre and completely lacking in anything approaching a rational thought.

[stupidicus]

96. well I'd try to explain it to you

but I reserve those efforts for those I deem capable of understanding...

SHould I alert on your obvious and inescapable implication that I am what, stupid/unintelligent and insane, as the personal attacks that they are, or await one that disciplines me for the "implications" of my opening remark and those that follow?

For those much more capable readers that likely don't need one, I'd start with and hope that they were as amused as I was by the claim that non-voters are "irelevant" in the wake of all the whines about how they cost us the election.

Secondly, it's also likely equally obvious that those that advocate for voting for third wayers despite the the ownership for the damage they'll do it earns, puts them in "sellout" territory, much as voting for the "lesser of two evils" makes those of us who do so, myself included, participants in the evil they provide.

They would appear to have the moral highground for refusing to participate in the corrupted process -- false alternatives game -- much as those of us who do participate while criticizing/condemning those we vote for and demand better replacements for, have it over the third wayers here that have spent the last few years attempting to wrest it from us with such "bizarre" and "irrational" charges as being Romneyites/Snowdenbots/Paulbots/etc, if not outright traitors. And after all, weren't we all also charged with "trying to discourage turnout/non-voting" with our criticisms and condemnations of this and that, so thanks for the "we can dish it out, but can't take it" whine.

And I'm sure your posting history is just full of examples of you attacking your peers for their aforementioned egregious and far removed from reason and leaps in logic BS, no?

Maybe you can post a few and exonerate yourself, but my recollection is that at best, all you've shown is the silence of consent for all that, and at worst, vocally supportive of it. If either is the case, I'd say it's real tragic that you have such a large bag of stones weighing you down, but highly amusing that you think so many around here not aware of it.

well done, and please proceed with a rationale explanation for your likely hypocrisy and inability to discern my point. THis is of course understandable given that you apparently lack the mental acuity to see that "advocacy for voting" involving voting for third wayers if need be, and support for in whole or in significant part for those third wayers and what they will produce as a policy pursuits or work product, are essentially the same thing. After all, isn't the latter precisely why you third wayers have so stridently defended BHO and others in the "{bizarre/irrational/illogical" manner described above as would be censors/crushers of dissent?

Of course it is. Thanks for contributing as one to the sense of hopelessness/futility behind the non-voting decision of so many. It's been clear and argued by me since practically my first day participating here, that if anyone has ownership of a dimunition in voter participation around here, it is likely your kind, and not just for alleging that we dem critics are traitors, etc, but also for showing how futile the "change" job potentially is with such a high concentration of so-called "dems" defending and therefore supporting the very things that push/keep people away from the voting booth, assuming that your conduct here can be extrapolated into the general voting public. Winning hearts and minds much less support is hard to do with all that "traitor" type talk, no?

All the projections in the world won't alter that. Own your BS, no?

[geek tragedy]

97. Non voters are moral cowards, not morally righteous.

You will never do anything of any value to help achieve the things you claim you care about.

You are as relevant to solving the problems in this country as a rusted out car on cinder blocks in rural Alabama is. Only difference is that the car isn't insufferably smug and self-congratulatory about its irrelevance.

[stupidicus]

98. that's garbage

for starters, fear has nothing to do with it in any way, shape, or form.

Secondly, should the dems, ulike the repugs, decide to look at and remedy the causes for the lack or support, how then does that make valueless in terms of the objective sought?

ANd I'm not advocating for not voting, I'm merely defending the non-voter from your kind. The act of voting is nothing more for most than the selection of who and what you can bargain with and over. For all the act of voting or choosing not to it is merely an exercising or not of the same right. To say that those that choose to not support the likely many things that have turned them off about this pres and the dem party to bring us to the worst turnout in what, 72 years, are cowards, much less less than "righteous", is hilarious coming from you "moral" minority types.

The level of support for and pursuit of things like the TPP, NSA spying, etc, etc, etc, outta BHO and dems is enough to justify feeling an affront to ones "morality", but here you are demanding they abandon their principles because you have in whole or in part. They (the disenchanted on those grounds I'm exclusively championing here) have no more duty to support the party --or this country by extension according to your kind -- than they would to support any group or org they felt went to far astray.


ANd they aren't the ones couching this in terms of "moral righteousness", although they could merely by doing so by denouncing you in similar terms for voting for more wars, more spying, more income inequality, etc, etc, etc, on the dem watch. You certainly don't have the moral superiority and not a damn bit of defense of any of that, just a bunch of stone casting in an effort to evade your role as a voter for it.

[silvershadow]

52. I don't vote against people, I vote for them, to the extent I can find them.

If this has anything to do with Hillary at all, she can take her chances. It won't be with me though. If the party chooses her, the party left me, not the other way around, and will have to deal with whatever the consequences may be. That has nothing to do with me. That's the party's choice. I have made mine already.

[onecaliberal]

55. I agree.

People died for the right. It's bullshit to sit out period.

[Cha]

56. The Whiners about not having a reason to vote are amazingly ignorant if they don't think

our Global Climate Change Crisis is a reason to vote.

Congratulations, Voters. You Just Made This Climate Denier the Most Powerful Senator on the Environment. And, NON

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120134/climate-change-denier-james-inhofe-lead-environment-committee

Not giving a second thought about our Planet.

[hopemountain]

58. i heard this "don't vote" bs on kgo radio, sanfran.

from a regular show host - election morning! this person also criticized & poked fun at the "gotv" movement. he was telling people not to bother.
what else to expect from a cumulus station?

[Cha]

61. While the rw stations are all saying GOTV.. that guy sounds like a first class ignorant clueless

jerk, hopemountain.

[jtuck004]

65. No, not voting makes the loser irrelevant. The person not voting is just fine and I respect them

a lot. People died to give them that right, and I will always take their side over people who don't do enough to earn their vote.

I can appreciate your point of view, but it sounds really similar to the argument plantation owners used to try to
convince slaves how badly they would fare if the left the plantation.

Maybe they were feeling irrelevant already...certainly being treated as such.


here.

And we have 10,000 people a day retiring, half of whom say they cannot live if they stop working.

all the while...

Banking industry checks in with record 2013 profits of $154.7 billion

You really expect people to vote for more of that?

I am glad I don't have that kind of optimism.

[duhbyas pet goat]

67. Before you can defeat the third way/blue dog/centrists

you have defeat the fascist prick republicans. Why would this be so hard to understand for otherwise intelligent progressives?

I have an otherwise intelligent friend who voted for Nader in 2000. He was even painting Nader campaign signs in mass quantities. No doubt he was the coolest dude ever down at Nader headquarters, but the result was gwb and satan cheney with a little help from the "supreme" court.

Progressives need to focus on the real enemy who are currently off the charts in absurdity, asininity, and douchbaggery. There should be no chance in hell they would win any election, they're so beyond laughable. If you are not voting to spite the less cool candidates on our side, you're not only irrelevant, but you're worse than the fascist pricks because as an otherwise intelligent progressive, you're really a traitor.

[jeff47]

102. No, it's actually easier to defeat the third way folks first

That then leaves a party that might actually do what the voters ask of it.

Progressives need to focus on the real enemy who are currently off the charts in absurdity, asininity, and douchbaggery (...) If you are not voting to spite the less cool candidates on our side, you're not only irrelevant, but you're worse than the fascist pricks because as an otherwise intelligent progressive, you're really a traitor.

Good thing you aren't resorting to something absurd, asinine and douchbag-y like calling them names.

Oh wait.

For the millionth time, they are not acting out of spite. They are not voting because they see no difference in results. Republicans win, and the bankers run roughshod over everyone else, the rich get richer, and the poor get fucked.

hey turned out in 2008, put in Democratic majorities in both houses and the White House. What happened?

The bankers run roughshod over everyone else, the rich get richer, and the poor get fucked.

Same as 1992. Young GenX and Millennials are both quite liberal. They don't turn out because they don't feel they have anyone to vote for. That isn't their fault. It's the party's fault for failing to represent them.

[sendero]

68. You are too thick..

.... to understand the difference between advocating not voting and understanding why someone wouldn't bother to vote.

Blame yourself.

[Cha]

71. "You are too thick.." to be able to get your point across without personally attacking the OP.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

74. Have you never heard of leading by example?

People that say they are not voting IS advocating others not to vote!

[GeorgeGist]

70. Pretzel logic for the LOSERs.

[PDittie]

75. It could be worse

More Texas Democrats this week are advocating voting in the Republican primary in order to "moderate" the TXGOP.

You think you got it bad where you live?

[DCBob]

78. Not voting is extremely relevant if it helps the other side win elections.

Then the difference will become crystal clear.

[Doctor_J]

86. what reason would people have to consider the repukes "the other side" when "our

side" favors heritage care, fracking, TPP, drilling, austerity, profitized education and social security, and more war?

[DCBob]

87. If you dont know by now I can't help you.

good grief.

[Doctor_J]

88. exactly. we have next to nothing of substance to offer

So little that you couldn't come up with a single item. The party has spent twenty five years making itself "just like them plus abortion rights" and now bitches when people don't think that's enough.

[DCBob]

89. There are plenty of items.. eg.. womens rights, civil rights, social justice,

workers rights, environmental protection and much much more. The Republicans could care less about any of these issues. Anyone who denies that is either clueless or lying or both.

[Doctor_J]

90. And which of these have the dc dems made priorities and made progress on

While in charge over the last six years? The president has spoken openly and proudly in favor of fracking, TPP, xl, offshore drilling, austerity, school privatization. His signature legislation is a huge merger of corporations and government. The middle east war is back. Poverty is still rising. While it's true that the republicans care nothing about these things, how are voters to believe that the democrats do? If they actually find these things important, they must be horribly incompetent.

[DCBob]

91. There have been some gains but just holding on to what we have is an accomplishment..

given the circumstances. The Republicans intend to undo all the gains in all of these issues if they ever get full control of all branches of the government.

[Chathamization]

95. Democrats are better on all of those than Republican. Individually, I can only think of two of

those issues where a very small number of Republicans might be better than some Democrats, but even on those the Democrats are better than the Republicans in aggregate. If you don't think there's a difference between those who openly deny the existence of climate change, and those who openly recognize it's existence, or a difference between those who would increase funding for renewables vs. those who want to cut subsidies for them, then I guess the environment isn't important to you. If you don't see the difference between a party who is trying to institute voter ID laws and cheered the gutting of the Civil Rights Act, vs. the party that has been fighting those changes, I guess civil rights isn't important to you.

[99Forever]

79. Links?

I must have missed the "advocating not voting" post.

So, enlighten me, oh finger-pointer.

[bigwillq]

81. Everyone should vote

There are other options if one is unhappy with the major candidates. Change starts with us.

[tapermaker]

82. Irrelevant is voting

for Dem's in the current gerrymandered districts . I don't care if we all voted . It wouldn't matter, There would be no change .Expect the repubs to be able to kill puppies on c-span knowing they win regardless of the vote.I will still vote for a dem president , but see no up side to voting in current makeup of house.The game is rigged ,There is a big club and were not invited. Even when 2020 comes they will win because of gerrymandered district. They have no reason to worry about us at all.

[still_one]

100. You do realize not everything is gerrymandered. Governor races and senate races, in addition to

State initiatives and local offices such as mayor

[SidDithers]

94. DU rec for pissing off all the right people...nt

Sid

[baldguy]

99. Not voting also helps Republicans.

[jeff47]

101. You should read more carefully.

The posts talking about why millennials didn't vote are not advocating not voting in the future. They're explaining why millenials, and young GenX, have terrible turnout.

The fact that so many here can't grasp the problem is kinda why such explanations are necessary.

[Cha]

103. Another thing it gets it Ted Cruz to lead the US Science Dept.. but the little non voters were too

wrapped up in their little selves to think about that.

It's sickening the way they're being enabled around here.. by those who may or may not have voted themselves. Wtf knows. They're advocating not to vote.

[Thinkingabout]

104. If you dont vote then dont bitch. if you are mistaken thinking if you dont go and vote it will make

Others succumb to your wishes, doesn't work that way either. The voters will get ok and die and the GOP will remain in power and your issues will not be solved. By not voting you have lessened the opportunity Warren will get her issues passed. She will not be able to get anything out of committee because the GOP will put a Republican in as chairperson. It is likened to sending her out to kill elephants with pea gravel.if you did not think anyone was listening to you for this election, so, they will listen less now. They don't have to please a voting w who did not vote.