Regards this anti 3rd Way conversation...

[randys1]

First of all, I am a socialist, basically.

I have spent years on the internet but am still relatively new to DU, most of my time on very liberal message boards and until I got here I had never heard of 3rd way.

One of you just said to me you will still vote for Hillary or whoever the dem is so as to vote for the least offensive outcome, tell me what all these threads and posts are meant to accomplish.

If you want a future where a Bernie Sanders is president, for example, why dont you just say that and outline why he is better.

Personally I want his ideology in the WH but maybe he doesn't really want to be President, maybe he does, but I know he wants that ideology there and so do I, so instead of why we dont like Hillary or Obama, how about how do we go about getting a real liberal in the WH.

Is it possible by 2016, probably not but you can try, UP UNTIL THE POINT it is clear if what you are doing is doing more harm than good, if it is then you switch horses to maintain the least damage so you can continue toward your goal, right?

[merrily]

1. ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

[randys1]

2. And there is why Rove and Koch will be successful, if they are

NOTHING in my post deserves that response

and I see you offer NOTHING as to how do we get a liberal in office...

how do we get democratic socialist ideas going etc

you offer nothing but an insult

[Bluenorthwest]

6. If you never heard of Third Way, you are out of the loop too far to speak of the loop...

It's a large organization with lots of major Democratic members. It has lots of influence. Some of their more famous members lost hard this week. Meanwhile more liberal Democrats fared better. Those of us who like to win like those candidates who win, not those who explain that their losses are the fault of voters.
These are things you should know. Third Way members were leading opponents of marriage equality for years and years. When the tide turned so did they, now the exploit marriage equality as if they had pioneered the issue. That disgusts me. It is exploitative and dishonest. It is Claire McCaskill, who has supported equality for less than a year, acting like she was Harvey Milk's understudy.
Fuck them. First it is their tactics, then their politics. Fuck them for both things.

[randys1]

8. In that case I will leave politics entirely, stop working for Bernie and stop posting

I sure as fuck wouldnt want to interfere with all you fucking god damn experts

bye now

and I guess i should suspend my twitter account dedicated to exposing voter suppression

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote


since, you know, I am so far out of the loop

jesus

no thanks , I wont say bye yet and the insults wont stop me either

[Autumn]

24. They are toxic and have infiltrated the party. "We need a radical change

at the top of the Democratic leadership"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025791124

[L0oniX]

16. The whole point of moving center and 3 way is to get money for political campaigns.

Second to that is to get votes from Rinos. Of course the campaign money means whoever wins will owe some paybacks. Poor people don't contribute enough money for centrists and the 3rd way to give a shit about them.

[randys1]

19. Of course it is which is why we need CU reversed and the law of the land has to be

only public funding of campaigns

Which candidate is more likely to get that, Rand Paul or Hillary Clinton...
neither you say, wait, think about who they would appoint to SC and so on

not complicated, really isnt

while I am working to get BERNIE SANDERS in the WH we can have these discussions

[L0oniX]

21. Public funding of campaigns is never going to happen. SCOTUS made sure of that.

[randys1]

23. My fear is we havent had anything to say about anything for 20 yrs just like Carlin said

but we were too stubborn to admit it

[L0oniX]

25. Carlin was a remarkable purveyor of profound truth.

[treestar]

32. They don't want a liberal in office

They want to complain they are victims.

And even Bernie in the WH would still leave the problem of Congress, state Republicans and gerrymandering. They'd have to turn on Bernie, because he would not be able to do anything.

[Rex]

3. 6 years is relatively new?

Bernie will have to run on the Dem ticket, no way will he win as an Independent. Don't feel bad, a lot of people have no clue what the Third Way is or how it is different than the term "Third Way" Bill Clinton coined.

[randys1]

4. i have been on du for less than one year

if my account is older than that it is because i didnt post, i may have registered a long time ago but if you want you can research my posts and you will see i havent posted until this year

i started when randi went off the air

So are you a Bernie fan or not, I really dont know anymore who is what

[Rex]

5. I miss Randi Rhodes, she was a real firebrand.

Do you know if she is doing anything else on the internet?

FYI you can click on your My Profile tab to see information about yourself.

[randys1]

7. No, she is in Costa Rica, she gave up, cant blame her

I see I joined in 2008, and I can promise you I didnt start posting in any frequency until randi went off the air and i can assure you the term 3rd way was never mentioned on her board

and there were many liberals there

Most of whom wont come here for two reasons, one is they find the mechanics of the board annoying and secondly they tell me they cant handle all the in fighting and back and forth, which I didnt understand until recently

[Rex]

11. Yeah, there are people here that have been fighting with each other for over 10 years.

So if you see strange arguments that make no sense, just look at their My Profile - if it is some old timers it could be a fight from years and years ago.

This is nothing, we had a META forum at one time that got so bad the admins had to hide it from unregistered viewers. Did you ever hear of Bartcop or post on his message board?

[randys1]

12. Been reading Bartcop for years but dont post there

i dont recall seeing a message board there, i will have to look again

my favorite person to read or listen to or watch movies he has made is Greg Palast

http://www.gregpalast.com/

[Rex]

13. I already miss him, dam shame about Randi she was an amazing talent.

But I don't blame her either. She should have been an anchor on one of the big media channels.

[randys1]

14. he died, right? did someone take his place on that site? i havent been there in a while

Do you know who Dave Marsh is?

Former RS music critic, had show on Sirius called "live from the land of hopes and dreams"

he does one on The Boss now I think

he is a founding or early member of SNCC and makes me look like a republican and he is the one who says what I keep saying that you work 24/7 to elect liberals or socialists if you will but you take 5 minutes out every two years to vote for the least objectionable

[Rex]

20. Yeah he passed away. Nobody will ever replace him, his wife left the site up.

Been a hell of a year. We lost him, George Carlin and Robin Williams. Rough year for progressives.

[randys1]

22. I was at George's last HBO taping....I love my parents, both are gone, but I didnt feel like

an orphan until George died

[Rex]

26. I am sorry to hear that.

I can kind of relate, William's death hit me like losing a brother. I still cannot believe it in some ways.

[randys1]

29. Oh shit, Robin...dont get me started. I just wish I coulda been there to say no, dont do that

I was watching "Happy Days", live so to speak when Mork was first introduced, I turned to my roommate and said, and I will never forget saying this "He is gonna be a superstar"

[Rex]

33. I miss that era of TVEE. I don't own one now because I cannot stand how commercialized

everything has become. Johnathan Winters and Robin Williams could make me pee my pants from laughter. When Winters popped out of his egg I lost it...snot running out the nose and crying hard laughter.

I cherish those moments in time, they are precious. I would give my right hand, just to have been there to talk Robin down. I'm left handed so I kind of need it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

53. Tell these delicate flowers to USE THE TOOLS provided by Skinner, et al...

to enhance their DU experience. Geez, if they can't handle "fighting" on a message board, maybe politics isn't for them.

[Ykcutnek]

9. The way I see it: With Republicans in control of nearly everything now...

If the only complaints one has is about our party's ideological diversity, then perhaps they need to remove their head from their ass.

[Marr]

15. LOL, let me see if I've got this straight:

You support center right Democrats as they redefine the party into 'Republican-Lite', since you know-- we need those "moderate" voters (whoever they are). They lose, big. So you blame the voters, and say liberals who think we need to drop the losing strategy have their 'heads up their asses'.

Okay.

[L0oniX]

18. LMFAO

It's crazy ain't it.

[adirondacker]

36. It's a gifted form of logic.

[Ykcutnek]

40. Is that the same logic that says we lost in red states because we didn't wear enough flowers in our

hair?

You're right. Let's propose a new litmus test for the Democratic Party:

[Phlem]

46. The concern is

We were supposed to be the opposition party on election night. Instead we showed we could be just like the other guy. Where's the choice?

But mainly..... You know it's all about the base bout the base.... which was thoroughly ignored.

But the "purity". What fucking purity, just because we push back against conservative republican ideology we're purists?

The fact is Progressive legislation won big but open 3rd way Democratic seats lost.

We are currently not an opposition party, we are on a slow frog march to the right.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

55. "The fact is Progressive legislation won big but open 3rd way Democratic seats lost."

They can't seem to grasp that. Or they're being willfully ignorant.

[AgingAmerican]

50. Right because all liberals are stoned hippies

...according to Republicans

[Alittleliberal]

51. Not to mention those stoned hippies seemed to be right about a lot of things.

[Jackpine Radical]

56. OK, you fuckin' asked for it now.

[Phlem]

57. ROFL.

Nice.

[Rex]

27. Few can understand pretzel logic.

I think it goes something like this, "We have to kill the body, in order to save the head".

[bravenak]

30. I've decided that I like you a lot.

I was thinking what you wrote, then i scrolled and bam!! There it was. My though prewritten for me.

[Rex]

34. .

Thanks.

[adirondacker]

37. Beat me to it while I was rummaging for images.

and grabbing a cup of Joe.

[Ykcutnek]

39. No, my ideology is not center right.

But thanks for playing.

[Marr]

45. It doesn't matter what you call it.

You're promoting a strategy that's proven to be a loser. Blaming voters for not supporting it is not reasonable.

The people who say we need to try something different aren't the ones with their heads up their asses.

[sibelian]

31. Please stop wasting our time.

If you think a dislike of "ideological diversity" is the problem you clearly aren't reading what any of those on the site are proposing.

[Ykcutnek]

41. When at least two serious political analysts corroborate any of those asinine proposals...

I'll gladly jump on board.

[Ykcutnek]

43. Dude, I'm not the enemy.

I'm more ideologically aligned with the progressive wing of the party than the center right wing.

Our only difference is that I see them both as an asset and you don't.

[AgingAmerican]

52. The GOP is the center right party

"Center right" means you espouse Republican policies.

[onecaliberal]

10. If we refuse to take steps to change

The status quo, then stop fucking complaining when we watch republicans slowly destroy the country my fathers generation worked so tirelessly to build.
Hilary is the corp candidate. If you're saying those are the people ruining the party and then turn around and say you'll back her. What you're really saying is status quo is okay. Your elected reps don't have to really represent you.

[randys1]

17. No, you didnt read what I have been saying, I said lets work tirelessly to get Bernie

in the WH but if and when it is clear he isnt going there, we vote for the least objectionable person so that we can more easily work toward our original goal

what is so complicated about that?

[onecaliberal]

38. Electing a corporate candidate is

The same as electing a republican. We've seen it over and over again. This is why nothing ever changes.

[wyldwolf]

28. Boring!!

The republic will be won or lost on Democratic underground. It is therefore the responsibility of progressives to Wage battle against the enemy here. What happens in the real world is irrelevant.

Plus what you're proposing just isn't sexy enough.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

35. Fair weather socialism?

Support the socialist until the going gets hard, then jump onto the corporate capitalist bandwagon?

No thanks.

[randys1]

44. Ahh, purity...No thanks, I will follow the lead of Dave Marsh as I said, someone who was part

of SNCC and who can tell you what fascism and hate is really all about ....

If he lived thru that in the 60's and is a socialist like me and says you have to take the least objectionable, I trust him

do you know what SNCC is?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

48. Purity? Purity my rear end.

Purity would be nationalizing every major facet of modern living. The military owning it's own munitions and body armour factories, the government making the office supplies it uses. The private sector left to diddle around in things people like, and like choices in, like clothing and food, while the government takes care of utilities, energy, finance.

Don't EVEN talk 'purity' when there's not a chance in hell I'll EVER see anything like 'purity' in my lifetime.

Leave the centrist insults on the sidelines, my dubiously socialist fellow DUer.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

49. Oh, yeah, and, btw, if you mean the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee

then yes I know the SNCC. If you mean something else, then no I don't.

A week or two back, there was a diary asking us to name five black Americans we respect. (Still not sure if it was troll bait, or meant to show how most white folks would probably come up with people like 'Jay Z' or 'Oprah'.) One of my list was Stokely Carmichael.

[AgingAmerican]

54. That center right 'purity' meme is dead

We aren't the right wing party, and these last two midterms have proven it.

[TheKentuckian]

47. Step 1. Destroy the viability of the Turd Way and break their control of the party

Nothing else is possible until the cancer is removed, the patient will continue to degrade and finally die.

Step 2. Have people centered economic policies and vehemently stick to them no matter what the Teabags, the corporate media, the Turd Way, or the rich cry and lie or which way the wind blows.

Step 3. When we get the power and eventually we will, single minded and relentlessly push it through by any means necessary.

Step 4. Accept there will be no permanent majority and that repudiation and loss will happen and stick with what we believe anyway so that when the winds shift or the pendulum swings we will once again be there to do what we do unapologetically and without hesitation.

Step 5. Ever seek the destruction of the Republican party. Quit the bullshit loyal opposition crap. Never seek bipartisanship. Always go after them hammer and tongs, hell bent on obliterating them because they are absolutely and unacceptably evil. Make no bones about a fierce conviction that these are fiends who exist to destroy our nation, our values, and our way of life and never pretend otherwise again.

Step 5. Prosecute their criminals who are numerous as sand grains on a beach. Either get those villains out of the game or at least put them on defense.

Step 6. Go after their funders by any means available, get those fuckers on their heels and desperate to hold on to their own turf instead of having spare resources and energy attacking and controlling the broader government.

Step 7. Wash our hands of the mealymouthed, soft spoken, technocratic or professorial mold we seem in love with, especially with our male politicians. Our women are allowed some humanity and feistiness but our men seem expected to be soft spoken, unimtimidating, Droopy imitators.

Step 8. Don't be stingy with the red meat. Why does anyone think not ripping the enemies ass is a net positive. You make them defend and you motivate your own while telling both the flippers and the sitters who the enemy is and exactly what they are doing.

Step 9. Never forget basic wisdoms.

"One cannot serve two masters" (turn this one up to fucking eleven when each "master" has diametrically opposed aims. CAN. NOT. DO. IT).

"Power never surrenders, it must be taken".

"When presented with the choice between a fake Republican and the genuine article, they will select the real deal about every time".

"To wield power one must be respected or feared, a chump cannot illicit either reaction".

"There is no possibility of peace, justice, or equality for the necessitous and the destitute".

"If you don't believe in yourself no one else will either".

"Say what you mean and do what you say" I would if you can't don't hem and haw about why and ask for a direct remedy.

Step 10. Suck it up and really digest that any and all government isn't good. Good government is good and that absolutely requires transparency, accountability for the powerful, honest and accessible elections, significant checks on power, and strict limits on power. There are malevolent forms of order that cause more destruction and suffering than the most discordant forms of chaos.
Both the 1's and 0's are straight up batshit damn insane in this binary thinking contest. I understand the urge for that equal, opposite reaction to the old charlatan's bullshit lie but it is by definition and clear to 10,000 years of history to be equally though oppositely wrong.

This thing we are champions of is a tool. A necessary and potentially blessing level beneficial tool but a tool nonetheless and like all tools can be used to great negative effect from the first time folks picked up a stick or a rock with purpose to fire to iron to the secrets of the atom.
As champions one of our fundamental responsibilities is being first in line for being fiercely critical of fucking it up and the most vigilant for abuse not a bunch of excuse makers.


Step 11. Start focusing on emerging realities instead of re - fighting old battles. We are damn near the PTSD party, experiencing flashbacks from every contest from 1968 on, won or lost.

Step 12. Cut crooks, losers, and anchors loose. This goes quadruple or more for fucks we don't even trust much less agree with pretty much because they are incumbents.
What kind of tone deaf stupid run a Corzine in the wake of a monumental meltdown? The kind fixated on the familiar, the tied up in knots risk adverse, the game players, the complicit. Martha Coakley? Really? Why the fuck is DiFi serving a term as a Democrat from California today?

Step 13. Cease and desist from appointing fucking TeaPubliKlans to head the security apparatus, are you barking mad?

Step 14. Root out the gremlins in the gears! Don't spit lame platitudes or idealistic versions of 8th grade civics known to be inoperative.

Step 15. Stop begging and pre - compromising on judicial appointments and in turn stop deferring to discretion on their's. If y9 u won't do this then there is no reason to even exist, it is the essential bare minimum. Obama and Reid are so ridiculous that they have cornered themselves into pleading for conservatives and attempting to sell us on special interest factors like being openly guy when they are still right wing jurists just to get slots filled.

The worst part is the TeaPubliKlans know full well there will be no consequences, we might push back on a clear inept joke of a nomination like Harriet Myers or an open piece of shot like Bork but generally no matter how absurdly extreme and distorted we will let it go. Meanwhile, we are forced somehow into self selecting corporate and authoritarian friendly moderates focused almost exclusively on holding onto abortion rights.


I think that is a start.

[Phlem]

58. Sounds a great fucking start!

I all for it.