General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you thought the Postal Service was bad before, just wait:
Another solution, of course, would be for Congress to get out of the way of the Postal Service making money providing needed services like banking for tens of millions of people who don't have access to financial institutions. But for Republicans like Ron Johnson, the health of the Postal Service isn't the goal. The destruction of a public service and slashing public jobs is the goal. Happily, Johnson can't unilaterally make his wishes a reality. But he can certainly stand in the way of improvement.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/18/1345791/-GOP-senator-who-wants-the-Postal-Service-to-go-bankrupt-about-to-have-oversight-over-it?Detail=facebook
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still_one
(92,219 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)still_one
(92,219 posts)only for us, but for them also
arcane1
(38,613 posts)and if the best one could do this year is vote for "not as bad as the republican" then that's still a reason to vote. There's always next time!
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)If you are going to expect the great mass of casual voters to vote for you, its helpful to tell them your positions. Over all, the Democrats did a horrible job of explaining to the voters what they stood for.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)See voters not only have a duty to vote they have a duty to inform themselves. These fucking excuses you come up with don't belong of a political discussion board!
merrily
(45,251 posts)
Cha
(297,317 posts)only trumpeting about how ignorant they are.
Many of those who are now complaining about this turn of events.
This is what happens when Repubs control the agenda. Every. Single. Time.
Elections matter. MAJORITIES matter.
This really shouldn't be a difficult concept.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The 2006 postal "reform" bill that was designed to kill the post office had bipartisan support, to say the least.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022335782
And, in his first term, Obama appointed the Republican most responsible for drafting that bill to the Postal Commission, and also reappointed Hammond, another infamous Republican enemy of the post office.
http://www.savethepostoffice.com/what-were-you-thinking-mr-president-obama-nominates-hammond-prc
Not to mention DiFi's hubby investing in real estate, with a concentration in closed post offices.
global1
(25,253 posts)From Think Progress: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/
And this one is everything you wanted to know about the passage of this 2006 Law: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr6407
Here's Ed Schultz on the Postal Service:
Bernie Sanders on saving the Postal Service: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/saving-the-us-postal-service
and this from Sanders: http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304914204579393510572563436
sketchy
(458 posts)link to thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101458967
I hope it's alright by DUer brentspeak if I quote his response to another DUer, Post 72:
"I'm aware that corporate Democrats like Tom Carper and Max Baucus have fought against efforts to eliminate the pre-funding requirement.
Please show us how Waxman and Davis were the ones responsible for including the pre-funding requirement into the House legislative draft. You won't be able to because the pre-funding requirement was included after Susan Collins (R-Maine) http://www.mpcourier.com/article/20111011/DCO01/111019967/0/dco added it to one of the Senate versions of the bill, which then got shuttled back to the House. As was already explained to you, the House Democrats bargained to remove the union-busting and privatization provisions from the House legislation. That's why they voted for the bill as it was hammered out."
He was responding to this:
"They may now have gotten cold feet about the bill but it is BS to say there was some big conspiracy to end the post office when progressive Democrats sponsored the bill and the postal union supported it. Maybe someone who was competent should have read the bill before voting on it and alerted people to the dangers before a vote instead of waiting years later."
merrily
(45,251 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 20, 2014, 01:58 AM - Edit history (2)
Maybe someone who was competent should have read the bill before voting on it and alerted people to the dangers before a vote instead of waiting years later.
Good point, but I think it's hilarious that a DUer assumes that no competent person read the bill before the vote, even though the DUer is faulting them for not having read it.
Many legislators are lawyers, they have very bright staff and the House Dem caucus and the House Senate caucus surely have lawyers up the yin yang.
Just how many silly excuses and assumptions are we going to make on behalf people for whose benefit taxpayers pay a fortune for every year to look out for our best interests--which are NOT privatization of the Post Office?
Dan
(3,570 posts)to steal the pension fund...
If the GOP has it's way, sell off the service (probably to someone like Mr. Mitch Romney) and then steal the retirement.
My thoughts.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)The GOP has done a tremendous job of eliminating most pension services with perhaps the sole exception of government jobs.
Would be nice to have a rebirth of the pension system.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)It is the same reason Republicans attack teachers, lawyers, and any other group that supports Democrats. MONEY
merrily
(45,251 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)"I think the DLC swallowed my party."
As a friend assured me, though, "everything is cyclical." If this month's rout doesn't signal that it's time for the pendulum to start moving back, I don't know what does.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)thats nuts...we have a Postal Service that is the envy of the world.
The postal service must fund 75 yrs of Retirement in 10 yrs....THAT is why it has financial trouble...that was the Republicans trying to kill it...the Vulture Capitalists...
brush
(53,787 posts)will get all that privatized delivery business.
They will do well even though they don't have anywhere near the capability to deliver mail daily to EVERY ADDRESS IN THE COUNTRY like the Post Office can.
We'll all probably have to schlep to centralized mail pick-up depots to get our mail, and you just know the price to mail just a letter is going to skyrocket.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and whats worse...if it were for the 75 years of prefunding Retirement....they would have a surplus! Can't have a Social program like the Postal Service be successful or anything...
brush
(53,787 posts)And they could have even a bigger surplus if they start up that banking busines for communities under served by the big banks.
Didn't the post office offer this years ago?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)It was in operation for 56 years, from 1911 to 1967.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings_System
former9thward
(32,025 posts)The post office has not paid the funding requirement for three years now. Not a penny of it. Yet they still run massive debts. The internet/computerization has killed a lot of jobs and it is taking the post office down also.
brush
(53,787 posts)They've made huge pre-payments. Here's an excerpt and a link to the complete story.
"It is true that USPS is facing fiscal challenges — it lost nearly $20 billion over the last four years and is at risk of not being able to meet a $5.5 billion mandated payment to the Treasury at the end of this month (which has been put off six weeks thanks to the last continuing resolution in Congress).
But what has been lost in the political debate over the Post Office is why it is losing this money. Major media coverage points to the rise of email or Internet services and the inefficiency of the post model as the major culprits. While these factors may cause some fiscal pain, almost all of the postal service’s losses over the last four years can be traced back to a single, artificial restriction forced onto the Post Office by the Republican-led Congress in 2006.
At the very end of that year, Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA). Under PAEA, USPS was forced to “prefund its future health care benefit payments to retirees for the next 75 years in an astonishing ten-year time span” — meaning that it had to put aside billions of dollars to pay for the health benefits of employees it hasn’t even hired yet, something “that no other government or private corporation is required to do.”
As consumer advocate Ralph Nader noted, if PAEA was never enacted, USPS would actually be facing a $1.5 billion surplus today:
By June 2011, the USPS saw a total net deficit of $19.5 billion, $12.7 billion of which was borrowed money from Treasury (leaving just $2.3 billion left until the USPS hits its statutory borrowing limit of $15 billion). This $19.5 billion deficit almost exactly matches the $20.95 billion the USPS made in prepayments to the fund for future retiree health care benefits by June 2011. If the prepayments required under PAEA were never enacted into law, the USPS would not have a net deficiency of nearly $20 billion, but instead be in the black by at least $1.5 billion.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)only someone who reads Rightwinger sites would believe that hokum!
former9thward
(32,025 posts)
U.S. POSTAL SERVICE
Action Needed to Address
Unfunded Benefit Liabilities
From the GAO:
According to USPS, current projections
indicate that it will be unable to make the required $5.7 billion retiree
health benefit prefunding payment due in September 2014. USPS has
stated that its cash position will worsen in October 2014 when it is
required to make an estimated payment of $1.4 billion to DOL for its
annual workers’ compensation reimbursement.
However, USPS has indicated that it does not expect to make any of the
remaining fixed prefunding payments, through fiscal year 2016, an
intention that means its unfunded liability would increase and its future
payments would be greater.
They have not paid a dime for years.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/661637.pdf
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)the part about them NOT being in the red because of the Legislation that says they MUST fund the Retirement plans for 75 yrs...
THAT....DUH!
former9thward
(32,025 posts)They ARE NOT funding the plans. NOT. They are NOT making the payments and they have said they are NOT going to in the future. So that "required payment" has no effect on their balance sheet because IT IS NOT there.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)downthread....Bernie Sanders...READ!!!!
“The Postal Service should also be allowed to recover more than $13 billion in overpayments it has made to its pension plans,” adds Sanders. “With these changes alone, the Postal Service would be back in the black and posting profits.”
Sanders and other concerned legislators have gotten the Senate to take some steps toward addressing what is, in reality, a Congressional crisis—not a postal crisis. But the disengaged and dysfunctional Republican leadership in the House has failed to act in an even minimally responsible manner.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)the Post Office was in the red because of the annual payments. That is false because they are not making them. They are in the red despite not paying them. And I'll take the GAO figures over Sanders rhetoric.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)i will take THEIR word for it...
but I can find you PLENTY More!
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)THAT is what put them in the red.
You keep doing this. Again and again and again. On every fucking issue you take the Rightwing stance, cherry pick facts to back you up, ignore facts that dispute you.
Why are you fucking here? Why you don't you just take your lying ass out of this place?
former9thward
(32,025 posts)According to the Post Office they stopped in 2009.
The pre-funding requirement, as it currently stands, contributes significantly to postal losses. Under current law, the Postal Service must follow a mandated pre-funding schedule of $5.5 billion to $5.8 billion per year through 2016. In 2009, Congress granted a much needed deferral, allowing us to pay $4.0 billion less than the orignally required $5.4 billion payment. This year, Congress opted not to provide this deferral.
http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/financials/annual-reports/fy2010/ar2010_4_002.htm
You did not dispute any of my facts because you can't. Just juvenile name calling.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)You've accused me of lying about shit that I PERSONALLY WITNESSED before the Internet because there is no link on the Internet to prove it happened before the Internet. You will never get nothing from me but hostility, you worthless rightist piece of shit.
Go back to your fucking freeper pals and do a circle jerk about your ability to troll DU all these years.
You cherry pick and twist. Every fucking post you make someone takes apart. When someone proves your first link is full of shit (or that you selectively edited it), you find another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another. Then another.
Until we finally get tired of your fucking lying ass.
Why the fuck MIRT has not tossed your ass off DU by now, I will never understand.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)They stopped paying. The internet exists now and it existed in 2007 when the payments were supposed to start. Please show us the partial payments. I have posted numerous links showing they didn't not make the payments. Have a good day! 
brush
(53,787 posts)They've paid huge amounts.
Tell me, what is your angle?
It seems you're rooting for the US to not have a postal service — and all it's people will have to pony up way more than we do now to mail anything.
The problem is fixable if Congress will get off requiring a retirement fund for 75 years into the future. That's an unprecedented burden that no other entity, private of public, has every had to foot the bill for.
The reasons for it are so transparent, to drive the Post Office out of business, even wingers should be able to see that.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Which is true. I also posted a link to the GAO report which says they will not pay in the future. So what is your angle?
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)How after actual facts are posted, the sub-thread goes totally quiet.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that is nothing but RIGHTWINGERS trying to privatize it!
I only went silent because I am busy filling out forms online.....
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)I wasn't aware he had moved to the right wing.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)did you miss that part? Some Democrats do vote with Republicans because they are Conservative....you get that right?
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)More than some. It passed both houses with a simple voice vote. No one was obviously protesting very hard at the time. The Democrats could have easily filibustered this at a minimum in the Senate if they had wanted to.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)sketchy
(458 posts)link to thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101458967
DUer brentspeak (if I may quote him) said, in Post 72:
"I'm aware that corporate Democrats like Tom Carper and Max Baucus have fought against efforts to eliminate the pre-funding requirement.
Please show us how Waxman and Davis were the ones responsible for including the pre-funding requirement into the House legislative draft. You won't be able to because the pre-funding requirement was included after Susan Collins (R-Maine) http://www.mpcourier.com/article/20111011/DCO01/111019967/0/dco added it to one of the Senate versions of the bill, which then got shuttled back to the House. As was already explained to you, the House Democrats bargained to remove the union-busting and privatization provisions from the House legislation. That's why they voted for the bill as it was hammered out."
It looks like Dems were fighting union-busting and privatization provisions, and bargained for the best they felt they could get under those conditions.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)believe them that they ARE a Democrat!!
former9thward
(32,025 posts)From the GAO:
According to USPS, current projections
indicate that it will be unable to make the required $5.7 billion retiree
health benefit prefunding payment due in September 2014. USPS has
stated that its cash position will worsen in October 2014 when it is
required to make an estimated payment of $1.4 billion to DOL for its
annual workers’ compensation reimbursement.
However, USPS has indicated that it does not expect to make any of the
remaining fixed prefunding payments, through fiscal year 2016, an
intention that means its unfunded liability would increase and its future
payments would be greater.
They have not paid a dime for years.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/661637.pdf
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)former9thward
(32,025 posts)They are not making the payments and they said they will NOT in the future. Not a thin dime.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)In 2006, a Republican Congress—acting at the behest of the Bush-Cheney administration—enacted a law that required the postal service to “pre-fund” retiree health benefits seventy-five years into the future. No major private-sector corporation or public-sector agency could do that. It’s an untenable demand. “(The) Postal Service in the short term should be released from an onerous and unprecedented burden to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a 10-year period,” says US Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont. “With $44 billion now in the fund, the Postal Service inspector general has said that program is already stronger than any other equivalent government or private-sector fund in the country. There already is more than enough in the account to meet all obligations to retirees.”
even Bernie Sanders says so....you gonna call him a liar?
former9thward
(32,025 posts)I'll stick with them. Sanders says they should be released? Well they have been since they have not make the payments for years and will not make them again.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Yes Sanders says they SHOULD be released...and Nader said that they WOULD be in Black...JUST like I said...
and here is a thread on DU to explain it to you....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022335782
and here is Ed Schultz to break it down for ya...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/22/1084948/-Republicans-manufacture-a-crisis-for-the-Postal-Service-and-too-many-Democrats-go-along
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Do you agree with the Republican plans for the USPS?
Do you want the union busted by canceling all contracts?
former9thward
(32,025 posts)That is the tone of your strawman questions. Ask a reasonable one without the bs setup and I will answer it.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Simple question I asked though. I support the USPS fully and the unions that work there.
What is your position?
former9thward
(32,025 posts)I do not support supporting institutions just because they have always been there. If the P.O. can complete in the age of the internet so be it. But they should not be propped up.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)effectively busting them. Just come out and say it. Your opening sentence is totally not responsive.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Sorry, not going to do it. You created them, they are all yours.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)and you apparently don't want to answer. Simple question: Do you support what the GOP purportedly plans to do with the USPS? That is no freaking strawman.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)I don't know what "the GOP purportedly plans to do with the USPS" so I can't answer that question. They apparently have taken you into their confidence, not me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)According to Sen. Bernie Sanders, not someone who is going to argue for leaving retired workers in the lurch:
"The Postal Service should be released from the “onerous and unprecedented burden” of being forced to put $5.5 billion every year into its future retiree health benefits fund. Sanders’s office explains that “even if there are no further contributions from the post office, and if the fund simply collects 3.5 to 4 percent interest every year, that account will be fully funded in twenty-one years.” At the same time, the senator suggests, the postal service should be allowed to recover more than $13 billion in overpayments it has made to a federal retirement systems."
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)everyone on this thread is calling Bullshit on it except you!
Why are you calling Bernie Sanders a liar? Are you Republican....because that is how they would react to this information
louis-t
(23,295 posts)The way I read it, they have failed to make payments totaling $16 billion. That doesn't mean they haven't paid a dime in years. It means that is the amount they have failed to pay. Couldn't find the total that was due for those 3 years, but if it is more than $16 billion, it means they paid some of it.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)From a 2012 article.
Welcome to the week the United States Postal Service defaults on a major obligation. D-Day is Wednesday, Aug. 1, when the Postal Service is obligated, by statute, to make a $5.5 billion payment, money that is supposed to be put aside to “prefund” health benefits for future retirees. But, with less than $1 billion in the bank, the Postal Service announced on Monday that it would not be making the payment. It has a second payment, for $5.6 billion, due in September. Unless lightning strikes, it won’t be making that one either.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/opinion/nocera-its-d-day-for-the-post-office.html?_r=0
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)get over it....
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Cool...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but you cover your ears and say "lalalalala....I can't hear you" whenever we point out your mistake.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"On the other hand, that prefunding requirement is an absolute killer. It has cost the post office more than $20 billion since 2007 — a period during which its total losses amounted to $25.3 billion. Without that requirement, the post office would still likely be struggling, but it would have a lot more wiggle room — and a lot more cash. (Its pension obligations are also overfunded by around $11 billion.) Not since the debt crisis has there been such an avoidable fiscal mess."
louis-t
(23,295 posts)Republicans are criminals.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)former9thward
(32,025 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)YOU are willfully ignoring THAT!
The U.S. Postal Service has overfunded its federal pension obligations by nearly 105 percent, or $13.1 billion, for the federal fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2011, according to a report issued last week by the agency’s inspector general.
The inspector general suggested reverting the surplus money to the Postal Service. But the Office of Personnel Management is not permitted to return surplus contributions to federal agencies. That would require an act of Congress.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/postal-service-federal-pension-contributions-105-percent-overfunded/2012/06/25/gJQAXrva2V_blog.html
former9thward
(32,025 posts)OK, got it.... I forgot those are RW sites ....
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)to cover the shortfall....so NO you DON'T get it...
The inspector general suggested reverting the surplus money to the Postal Service. But the Office of Personnel Management is not permitted to return surplus contributions to federal agencies. That would require an act of Congress.
And WHAT business would survive if they were forced to prefund 75 yrs of retirement in just 10 yrs?
former9thward
(32,025 posts)From the GAO:
According to USPS, current projections
indicate that it will be unable to make the required $5.7 billion retiree
health benefit prefunding payment due in September 2014.
However, USPS has indicated that it does not expect to make any of the
remaining fixed prefunding payments, through fiscal year 2016, an
intention that means its unfunded liability would increase and its future
payments would be greater.
From the NY Times 2012:
But, with less than $1 billion in the bank, the Postal Service announced on Monday that it would not be making the payment. It has a second payment, for $5.6 billion, due in September. Unless lightning strikes, it won’t be making that one either.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/opinion/nocera-its-d-day-for-the-post-office.html?_r=0
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and they cannot take it OUT!
former9thward
(32,025 posts)and I was using RW sites when I showed they were NOT. Now you have switched and are saying they should be able to take money out of it. Nice 180.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)without an act of Congress...
AGAIN....what organization BESIDES USPS has to prefund retirement in 10 yrs????
Name ONE!!!
You can't because its designed to make them fail....DUH! It wouldn't be in this shape if it wasn't doing exactly what it was designed to do!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As consumer advocate Ralph Nader noted, if PAEA was never enacted, USPS would actually be facing a $1.5 billion surplus today:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,414 posts)Who would handle normal mail delivery? 
The USPS is IMHO much cheaper and efficient than UPS, Fed Ex, etc.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Say good-bye to cheap and efficient.
Bettie
(16,110 posts)Heck, I'm in a small town, I'd probably have to drive 40 minutes to the nearest city to get mail.
brush
(53,787 posts)to deliver mail to every address in the country and Guam, and Puerto Rico and US Virgin Is. etc. like the Post Office.
They want the parcel business which they can probably do — at much higher rates than the PO of course — but as far as stamped mail getting delivered daily (checks, bill payments, letters, cards etc.), forget it. They'd be swamped.
The Post Office has the largest vehicle fleet in the country because they need it to do what they do.
The repugs better be careful, they might get what they wish for with the Post Office out of business, then everyone will see what a mistake was made when UPS and FEDEX fail miserably in getting the mail out promptly and inexpensively.
Schleps to mail pick-depots anyone?
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)It'll really suck for rural towns. Oh well, a lot of Republican senators from rural states, so I guess you reap what you sow.
underpants
(182,829 posts)Said that they can't go to every door every day. Not feasible even with a massive expansion if their operations.
louis-t
(23,295 posts)does it better and cheaper!1!!11 Although when I ask for examples, suddenly they left something burning on the stove.
underpants
(182,829 posts)That is why both contract the USPS frequently to deliver to isolated spots. USPS also pays both organizations to carry some of their loads on the shippers' planes.
This is extremely sort sighted but hey he's a Repub that goes with the territory.
The poster above is spot on about this really being about breaking up the union. Also the current head if the USPS is a plant who wants Staples to be the new post office.
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)As a business owner, there are so many things that I see that could be improved.
- I've had two rent checks go missing in the last six months
- Just yesterday, the damn mailman didn't pick up my outgoing mail, which has bills to be paid. This is the second time this month. It caused me to be late on rent.
- The use of archaic looking shit for stuff like certified mail. What the fuck is that shit?!?!?! Then they make you feel stupid when you get to the window and don't know what the fuck your doing.
- Terrible lines
- Poor customer service. Example, I saw a window clerk kick out a lady -without service- (who had been waiting in a line for 10 minutes) because she had a dog. WTF... I live in supposedly the most dog friendly city in America. What is the damn problem with bringing a dog into a post office? And to not even complete the transaction?... crazy... On top of that, I see poor body language, poor customer service language. These window clerks generally don't give a shit. Clerks at McDonalds are 10x better.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)via fedex or UPS. It will get there next day for the low price of $18.00 per letter. I'm sure you will be very pleased with their service. maybe I should tell you about my friend who had UPS lose 2 air filter machines and he had to sue and it took months for him to finally he got a judgement against UPS in court.(he was a lawyer). nice crush and lose someone's cargo and if he wasn't a lawyer he would have had to absorb the loss.
Logical
(22,457 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)I've brought up specific examples of ineptitude and bad service I've experienced with the post office within the last year. The response to my post was a clueless strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I posted.
brush
(53,787 posts)It's a simple fix.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)that pertains to nothing.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)and I just had a package intercepted. They were great on the phone and extremely helpful. Unfortunately you had bad service but as a whole they have excellent service as everyone except you comments.
Almost all ebay sellers uses USPS and they deliver on time with tracking and faster and cheaper than UPS and fedex. They are convenient and fast.I usually receive or send a package and it is delivered in 2 days with a tracking number. That same package is twice as expensive at UPS and 2 days slower.
This another typical example of the republican mindset(which i think you are) always saying the government can do no good versus reality.
I don't know why you use the post office. We as consumer always have choices.If I go to a restaurant and the food and service is terrible I might give it a second chance. If the second time is bad I won't go back. Just apply the same logic to your experience. Go to the alternative and use their service. It is very user friendly when you go to fedex and fill out the forms to ship a letter. It probably take 5 minutes for each letter. Good luck at fedex.
So just go to the private companies and use them. I'm sure you will be very happy. If you so unhappy just stop using USPS. simple.solution.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)eliminated next year. 2016 will be year 10 of the set aside.
People will notice when it cost $12 to mail a birthday card. They will wonder what happened. All hail the low information 'independent' voter!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Also the bill to create prefunding was bipartisan.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but they cannot use that to cover this.....because Republicans!
Read and learn...
($27 Billion for the retirement of former military personnel)
http://www.savethepostoffice.com/how-postal-service-began-prefunding-retiree-health-care-and-fell-deep-hole
Congress to the rescue
While it may make sense for the Postal Service to prefund its retiree health care benefits at some level or another, it’s clear that the current mandate is the main cause of the Postal Service’s financial crisis. Diversion to the Internet, a weak economy, and the reduction in postal services (like slowing down First Class mail) are contributing factors, but they account for a relatively small portion of the deficit. The big problem is the health care mandate. It accounts for over 80 percent of the total deficit that's accumulated since 2006 ($33 billion out of $41 billion). As the OIG says, making prefunding payments at the current levels will simply bankrupt the Postal Service.
The payments — even when they aren’t made — are already having a terrible effect on postal operations. They make the monthly, annual, and cumulative losses look many times worse than they actually are. The staggering losses are cited constantly by Postal Service management to justify reductions in service, like cutting hours at 13,000 post offices under POStPlan, and they are demoralizing the workforce. The losses are the regular stuff of headlines, and it's no wonder that many people think the Postal Service is a defunct dinosaur heading off a fiscal cliff. That can’t be good for business.
Congress created this problem in 2006 when it tried to correct the earlier mistake of overfunding the CSRS. But mandating that the Postal Service frontload the retiree health benefit fund with an aggressive payment schedule was an even bigger mistake, and it has turned out to be a disaster.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)Hey...at least the Post Office is mentioned in the Constitution, unlike the two I indicated above.
Keep the Navy and the Marine Corps, but dump the Army and the Air Force.
And leave the fucking Post Office alone.
I read somewhere that if everyone in the country mailed one first class letter a week.......just one.....
The Post Office's financial problems would be solved.
gladium et scutum
(808 posts)is mentioned in the Constitution. Article I section 8. and Article II section 2. deal with the establishment and command of the army.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)Article I, Section 8 states "To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;"
In other words, temporary armies.
Article II, Section 2 merely states the President will be the Commander in Chief and does not speak to "The establishment and command of the Army" other than as CIC.
So yes, I was wrong to suggest the Army isn't mentioned, but it is fairly clear that there is no provision to "Provide and maintain" as is indicated with the Navy and the Post Office.
gladium et scutum
(808 posts)Authorizes Congress to establish Post Offices and Post roads. The Constitution does not require Congress to do so.
underpants
(182,829 posts)There are a lot of houses just in Richmond Va that require door-to-door on foot deliveries.
global1
(25,253 posts)has gone kind of unnoticed by the American People. It was done in the shadows of other bills and under the radar of the People.
That is - 'up to now'.
From now on the damage that the Repubs do to the USPS will be done in broad daylight by a guy like this Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and his Repub colleagues and under the Klieg lights of CSPAN and the rest of MSM.
So if he/they advocate(s) bankruptcy and downsizing and privatizing which results in termination or substantial modification of contracts and collective bargaining agreements with various postal unions. If the day to day service by USPS is effected in any way - like no Saturday service and the closing of more local/rural post offices; if People's checks arrive to their bill collectors late and late fees get slapped on their next bill - Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and his Repub colleagues will be shouldering the blame that the American People will thrust on them.
The Repubs may win the battle - but will lose the war. The American People will retaliate and it will hurt the Repubs right in their gut - they will be voted out.
The American People will not stand for poor USPS service. Some of these American People that will be hurt by the likes of Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) will be Repubs as well - and they won't be happy. This is one goal (destroying the USPS) that the Repubs have that will amount to them shooting themselves in the foot. They will have no one else to blame. Obama didn't do it. They did.
So we know we can't leave it up to the MSM to report this to the American People and give them the straight skinny on the Repubs impending destruction of the USPS - we need to help the MSM. Every chance we get we need to keep the pressure on our Dem Senators and House Reps to keep this story alive in the minds and hearts of the American People. We here at DU will have to keep the pressure on this story both here on this board and by our use of Social Media (Tweets & FB's, etc) and every chance we get telling our family, friends and colleagues what is going on and what the Repubs are doing to the USPS.
Yeah the Repubs may have the majority on both sides of the Capitol - but they will also be laying out their dirty dealings for all of us American People to see. They won't be able to slide this one by.
Do you think I'm on to something here?
merrily
(45,251 posts)sketchy
(458 posts)And I believe Elizabeth Warren will not stand mutely by.
She has had the idea of the postal service offering basic checking accounts, and I hope she keeps hammering that!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)brush
(53,787 posts)legislation rammed-through years ago that requires the Post Office to fund their retirement fund 75 years into the future to the tune of some 10 billion dollars.
They are not making a profit because of that.
No other company, public or private, has that legal obligation.
They have to fund retirement for workers that aren't even born yet — that's how odious that law is, but it's intent is obvious — to drive the Post Office out of business so private delivery corporations can get that business.
This bit of privatization-wishing for their corporate clients is going to bite the repugs in the ass, though.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)In the Senate in particular, it was rammed through.
brush
(53,787 posts)"Rammed through and bi-partisan" is misleading.
merrily
(45,251 posts)was bipartisan. Obama's appointments to the postal commission )which you ignored) were quite consistent with that. Last minute addition? You mean Democrats are not responsible for their votes? Isn't that why taxpayers pay their staffs? Besides, a lot of kabuki goes on in D.C.
brush
(53,787 posts)not a dem. Your post made it seem that all the dems participate in adding the onerous funding requirement to the bill. It was only a handful.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The very same repug, in fact, that Obama appointed to the postal commission, as per my reply 57, along with Hammond. And Obama also appointed La Hood, although not to the Postal Commission. All three of those appointments got confirmed, despite postal union objections. So, It really doesn't seem that Democrats were upset at all about the 2006 bill and how it got rammed through the Senate. Last minute changes to bills are not unknown in Congress--and could be part of the kabuki anyway. Regardless, Democrats are responsible for their votes. As I said, that's why taxpayers pay their staffs and attorneys and everything else. have staffs
Quote from the DU thread I linked in my reply 57 about La Hood.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion offered by the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Tom Davis) that the House suspend the
rules and pass the bill, H.R. 6407, as amended.
The question was taken.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. LaHood). In the opinion of the Chair,
two-thirds of those voting have responded in the affirmative.
Mr. PENCE. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were refused.
So (two-thirds of those voting having responded in the affirmative)
the rules were suspended and the bill, as amended, was passed.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-2006-12-08/html/CREC-2006-12-08-pt1-PgH9160-2.htm
Wake up.
brush
(53,787 posts)to help repugs break the union and privatize the business, and probably heist the pension fund as well.
merrily
(45,251 posts)With help from LaHood, Obama's appointee as Secretary of Transportation, and Postal Commissioner Hammond, whom Obama re-appointed.
brush
(53,787 posts)That's what it sounds like you're getting at.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Everything is not about Obama and only Obama.
brush
(53,787 posts)That sure sounds like you're blaming Obama.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They all figured into this.
brush
(53,787 posts)That was a 2006 bill
merrily
(45,251 posts)I've been talking bipartisan. Bi partisan does not mean Obama and Republicans. It means Democrats and Republicans. At some point, you incorrectly decided I was blaming Obama and only Obama. I tried to tell you that you were wrong about that, that it was not about Obama and only Obama, but you refused to believe me. You're on your own with that.
brush
(53,787 posts)but your posts sure seemed to imply that Obama appointed and reappointed people who went along with the funding requirement being added to the bill, which of course could not have happened since the 2006 bill predates Obama's presidency by nearly 3 years.
If that wasn't your intent, fine.
merrily
(45,251 posts)have appointed the Republican who was the chief draftsperson of the 2006 Postal Destruction bill to the Postal Commission? Of course he could. And he did.
I don't know, and never said, that he was the one who added a provision at the last minute because I don't know who did that. But, the goal of the entire bill was anti-Post Office, not just the one provision.
moondust
(19,993 posts)My mail service was virtually flawless for 20 years. Then a consolidation a couple years ago saw some services combined with a larger PO in a neighboring city with some problems arising. For example, last month I had trouble with a few small packages. Last week a package got sent to the wrong city 70 miles away before being redirected here a day later. I called the local PO over one delayed package and found out that the information they had in their internal tracking system did not match the information I had in the online tracking system available to the public. Online tracking erroneously told me the package was delivered three days ago while their internal tracking system had it somewhere else entirely. WTF?
The cynic in me wonders if there may be some postal employees somewhere in the system or outside contractors who may be helping the privatizers make USPS perform badly or at least look bad. With so much business/money at stake and the greedy claws of Republicans involved, it wouldn't really surprise me if there is some mischief going on behind the scenes. I'd like to think not.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)and they are near flawless and excellent to work with. About ten years ago I lived on a training route for their mail deliverers and about once a month they would make an error. I do think some of it has to do with location and the quality of management in place in a region. I can see how a consolidation would have an effect. Local offices truly get to know the communities they serve and the more centralized they become the more they are removed from our neighborhood and the less personal they become.
moondust
(19,993 posts)It very well may be due to the consolidation, new procedures and schedules, new routes for carriers, etc. I exchanged greetings with my carrier a few days ago who mentioned that it was his first time on the route, and I've seen other carriers on other days. Like you say, the bigger it gets the more depersonalized it becomes.
I'll wait and hope for the best. The privatizers would make life worse for everybody but a few profiteers, so I suppose I'm a bit anxious over anything out of the ordinary.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)on a somewhat regular basis too. It would actually piss me off pretty bad. We depend on a lot of things getting to the right place. Sometimes it is more important than others. That importance is not of their concern and it shouldn't be. Each package should be given the priority it deserves and delivered on a timely fashion and in good shape. You are going through an experience where that isn't happening. My experience is much different. I am certain that you aren't doing something wrong where I am doing it right. The problem is with the service you are receiving. It should be more consistent across the country. The first time they explained the "training route" to me it was actually funny. I found out after complaining about mail going to the wrong place. This was a pretty long time ago. Best of luck moving forward.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)People vote against their own interests. Go figure.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The only way to stop it is the change the stupid rule about them having to fund 75 years of retirement.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)I never did.
Vinca
(50,278 posts)I ship stuff all the time and I'm still amazed at how fast they got a painting to Morocco.
For the money, there is simply no service that can compare with USPS.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Response to Brickbat (Reply #20)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I really appreciate the postal service and feel their people, service, and price are overall excellent. Stay away from the post office Gopers.
Hari Seldon
(154 posts)no matter how unprepared customers are, the employees at my local post office are always ready to explain the best way to ship letters and packages
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)And the slurs have their impact, sadly.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Although I think they need to be a bit less rough on packages. Two I sent out a week or so back wound up with broken items inside, despite my telling the guy 'yes, it has fragile, perishable, and liquids' inside. I'm going to have to start wrapping things in a lot more layers, sigh.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)and could see the volume, particularly during the upcoming season, you would understand why no one has the time to read warnings on every single package.
It is unfortunate that you had that experience, but it wasn't intentional, trust me.
It is imperative that fragile items be packed as well as possible. Your package will at one time or another go into a bin with scores of others, and the sorters are looking at zip codes, not "Fragile" warnings.
(I haul US Mail as a contractor and am in Distribution Centers all the time)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)it gets to the lobby of my friend in LA quite promptly. One of the best bargains in the nation.
Hugin
(33,164 posts)More dismantling of the government ahead. (and I'm still wondering if the Dems object to it.)
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)More like buying out at bargain basement, Black Friday, Foreclosure Sale pricing and then extracting every cent that can be embezzled whilst simultaneously degrading the services to a mere exoskeleton. With no oversight or regulation at all.
There won't be much of a country left, soon. I expect them to start ripping out the wiring to sell the cooper next.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hugin
(33,164 posts)Thanks.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)GOP's #1 goal is to destroy unions. But no, Obama let a banker go, so I'm not voting!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)some of the other posts that have been made upthread since you made your post.
(In referring to privatization, I am not referring solely to the Post Office, either. Charter schools, mercenaries, whatever. DC seems to love it some privatization.
maced666
(771 posts)the only thing I get are solicitations and sales flyers which go to the recycle bin
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)
PM me your address & I'll send you something fun.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)as THOSE companies often use the USPS as the last leg of delivery of your items....so you are absolutely wrong.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)the onerous law requiring prefunding of 75 years of retirement benefits won't solve. The USPS had a profit before their required ridiculously high contribution to the medical and pension accounts.
These Rethuglicans want to allow private business to steal the pension funds.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)The post office near us is quick, efficient, with friendly workers.
On the other hand, I had to send something via UPS recently, and their office was dark, messy, hard to find, slower with far less hospitable people working there.
If I have to send something via parcel, I always prefer to do it via the Post Office vs. UPS or FedEx.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Veilex
(1,555 posts)which is a lot more frequently than people think.
merrily
(45,251 posts)underpants
(182,829 posts)I posted well above in this thread that since the USPS has to go to every door every day both shippers hire the post office rather than sending one driver and truck to one door 10-20 miles away.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)I'd like to start collecting stamps. They are so cool.
on edit: This will be one of those "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" for most Americans.
obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)Veilex
(1,555 posts)
mnhtnbb
(31,392 posts)I actually sent an on-line 'kudos' to the New Haven, CT Post Office for delivering an absentee
ballot my son requested for this last election, in spite of the County Election Board here in
NC misspelling his street address in New Haven.
I think our postal service is terrific.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Veilex
(1,555 posts)I'm a fan of the USPS... however, I've had numerous conversations with those who insist that they are terrible...
Hence the phrasing of the title.
Its targeted specifically toward those who'd rather not support the postal service because they think the service sucks.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)They have a contract. Also Fed Ex drops off many packages at the local USPS, and USPS finishes delivery.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)
Paper Roses
(7,473 posts)I think it is high time the Post Office stopped being a department store. They do not need to sell stuffed animals, wrapping paper, rolls of tape, gift bags, ad infinitum.
I have also seen people pick up about a dozen boxes of various sizes in order to mail a package.
Geeze people, measure before you go to pick out a box. We also don't need about 30 different forever stamps for postage, a few would do the job just as well as 20 or more.
The post office offers too many things that are really not necessary to the 'mail' .
One stamp design would do the job for everyday mail. Odd amounts could also use just one stamp. Imagine the savings!
merrily
(45,251 posts)to mail and a selection of stamps not related to mail?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)"Such Great Heights" is a good song.
